Balbuena Red Card (VAR) - West Ham v Chelsea

El Zoido

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It’s never a red, the game is called football. You use your feet to kick a ball around. Of course there will be times when players come together like this, it’s a natural result of players kicking a football around.
 

Mb194dc

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Nah, we’re clearly all just rattled.
:lol:

Any other threads been created outside of the main VAR and referee one, in football forum, for specific incidents not involving Utd this season?

There have been loads of awful decisions but can't recall any. Even the Lo Celso stamp last year didn't get a thread iirc. Should we judge all red cards by the fact this wasn't one, from 1:30 here:

 

snk123

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It's not really VAR's fault though is it. It's the referee who has looked at it and though yeah, that's a red.
I really don't understand this take by so many people. Of course it is VAR's fault - all the VAR needed to do was inform the referee that there was no foul there. In fact, he made the mind up for the ref by asking him to go over and look at the screen. VAR is 100% at fault here - and it's killing the game.
 

Stactix

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Never a foul, you could probably go back in most games and slow down every clearance and find a dozen cases like this where a player has been kicked/studded after clearing.

As bad as this decision is, you could understand it if there was consistency.. there is none. It changes game by game, how Lindelof being face fecked isn't a foul but Son getting flicked and acting like he'd been shot is?

Or even similar decisons going opposite ways in the same game.. it's an utter farce.

EDIT: Just seen the decision Moyes was on about later on in the game, studded side after clearing ball, higher foot. Nothing given.
Inconsistency is comically bad with VAR.
 

terraloo

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It’s never a red, the game is called football. You use your feet to kick a ball around. Of course there will be times when players come together like this, it’s a natural result of players kicking a football around.
This is the reason that the ref and VAR thought their should be a sending off

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.


Yes he cleared the ball but the force he went into that tackle was the issue not the fact that he cleared the ball or come to that you could argue caught Chillwell although it sort of emphasis the point

As I said earlier was harsh and still think it was but when you go in full on like that and catch a player you run that risk.
 

UncleBob

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This is the reason that the ref and VAR thought their should be a sending off

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.


Yes he cleared the ball but the force he went into that tackle was the issue not the fact that he cleared the ball or come to that you could argue caught Chillwell although it sort of emphasis the point

As I said earlier was harsh and still think it was but when you go in full on like that and catch a player you run that risk.
It's not a tacke
He doesn't go in "full on"

Christ.
 

snk123

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It was offside, wasn't it? He can't give a foul for that if he's given the offside.
Of course he can send him off or give a yellow - do you think when the ref blows a whistle and stops the play, players are free to do whatever they want during that time?
 

terraloo

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I really don't understand this take by so many people. Of course it is VAR's fault - all the VAR needed to do was inform the referee that there was no foul there. In fact, he made the mind up for the ref by asking him to go over and look at the screen. VAR is 100% at fault here - and it's killing the game.
Your missing the very point that according to the law the fact that he kicked Chillwell it was a foul.

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

  • charges
  • jumps at
  • kicks or attempts to kick
  • pushes
  • strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
  • tackles or challenges
  • trips or attempts to trip
 

Counterfactual

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Balbuena takes the ball with his back to goal using his left foot, turns and clears it with his right foot. I don't think he even knew Chilwell was anywhere near him. Chilwell should've made a tackle/block or got out of the way. Instead he gets kicked through his own indecision and makes a massive meal of it. A red card is a mad decision and should be rescinded or we risk seeing it happen in every single game in the future.
 

JohnnyLaw

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This is the reason that the ref and VAR thought their should be a sending off

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.


Yes he cleared the ball but the force he went into that tackle was the issue not the fact that he cleared the ball or come to that you could argue caught Chillwell although it sort of emphasis the point

As I said earlier was harsh and still think it was but when you go in full on like that and catch a player you run that risk.
There was absolutely nothing ’excessive’ about it though. It’s a fecking side-footer.
 

terraloo

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It's not a tacke
He doesn't go in "full on"

Christ.
Did he kick be it intentionally or unintentionally?

That is a foul

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

  • charges
  • jumps at
  • kicks or attempts to kick
  • pushes
  • strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
  • tackles or challenges
  • trips or attempts to trip
The fact it was then a foul brings the tackle, challenge or the manner he played the ball into the equation.

Look I think it’s a harsh one but thems the rules
 

UncleBob

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Did he kick be it intentionally or unintentionally?

That is a foul

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

  • charges
  • jumps at
  • kicks or attempts to kick
  • pushes
  • strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
  • tackles or challenges
  • trips or attempts to trip
The fact it was then a foul brings the tackle, challenge or the manner he played the ball into the equation.

Look I think it’s a harsh one but thems the rules
:lol:

You haven't even quoted the rules for serious foul play, which is what he got sent off for. Christ
 

Chipper

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Your missing the very point that according to the law the fact that he kicked Chillwell it was a foul.

Direct free kick

A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:

  • charges
  • jumps at
  • kicks or attempts to kick
  • pushes
  • strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt)
  • tackles or challenges
  • trips or attempts to trip
No it doesn't

The referee has to decide it was careless, reckless or using excessive force, it says so right there.

You can kick someone and if the referee thinks it's none of those then it's not a foul. That's why "tackles or challenges" is one of those bullet points too. Is tackling or challenging a foul? According to you it automatically is.
 

Berbasbullet

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Watching Chelsea fans tie themselves up in knots to justify this is hilarious. :lol:
 

terraloo

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No referee is going to give a red card for that in normal play. Only when you slow it down and watch it over and over again can you convince yourself that there was intent and that the player had time to think about his actions. Which he didn't. It's an example of how VAR has made the decisions worse, and if the charade is going to continue, referees need to be educated on how not to be influenced wrongly by slow-motion.
Now this is something I agree 100% with. There should be at most one replay when the matter is subjective at even they should not be-in SLO mo
 

11101

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I really don't understand this take by so many people. Of course it is VAR's fault - all the VAR needed to do was inform the referee that there was no foul there. In fact, he made the mind up for the ref by asking him to go over and look at the screen. VAR is 100% at fault here - and it's killing the game.
The point is it's not the technology that's the problem, it's the people running it. If they cant get it right it points to a bigger problem as they are same people out on the field the following week.

Remove VAR and you still have the same incompetents making the same mistakes every week. Its deflecting the blame from the real issue which is the standard of refereeing in the PL currently.

Good referees = good VAR. Bad referees = bad VAR. It's that simple.
 

El Zoido

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This is the reason that the ref and VAR thought their should be a sending off

SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.


Yes he cleared the ball but the force he went into that tackle was the issue not the fact that he cleared the ball or come to that you could argue caught Chillwell although it sort of emphasis the point

As I said earlier was harsh and still think it was but when you go in full on like that and catch a player you run that risk.
It wasn’t even a tackle, it was hoofing the ball away, which is absolutely fine.
 

snk123

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Your missing the very point that according to the law the fact that he kicked Chillwell it was a foul.
I get that you support Chelsea and are spamming the shit out of this thread but please do play football once in your life.
 

Jev

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Now this is something I agree 100% with. There should be at most one replay when the matter is subjective at even they should not be-in SLO mo
I actually believe VAR shouldn't have slow-motion or the ability to pause at all. I genuinely believe that would fix almost all the problems with it:

You wouldn't get the toe-nail/armpit offsides because if you can't call it clearly in real-time on multiple viewings from the right angle, you let the on-field decision stand.

You wouldn't get red cards like this because you'd get a better picture of the actual force of the challenge and the (lack of) intention.

And you would get fewer silly handball penalties because you'd be able to see how quickly it all happened, and how quickly the player would have had to react to avoid it.

It shouldn't be that hard, really. Football was meant to be officiated in real-time and there's no reason VAR shouldn't be as well. That way, it would actually be used to correct clear and obvious errors, rather than splitting hairs.
 

Dan_F

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:lol:

Any other threads been created outside of the main VAR and referee one, in football forum, for specific incidents not involving Utd this season?

There have been loads of awful decisions but can't recall any. Even the Lo Celso stamp last year didn't get a thread iirc. Should we judge all red cards by the fact this wasn't one, from 1:30 here:

I’m pretty sure there would have been, but zero chance I’m bothering to search from them :lol:

One person making a thread, and then all the spill over chat being discussed in there can’t be surprising. Not to mention there’s Chelsea fans defending it. I doubt anyone was trying to defend that Lo Celso stamp.
 

roonster09

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:lol:

Any other threads been created outside of the main VAR and referee one, in football forum, for specific incidents not involving Utd this season?

There have been loads of awful decisions but can't recall any. Even the Lo Celso stamp last year didn't get a thread iirc. Should we judge all red cards by the fact this wasn't one, from 1:30 here:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/vardys-challenge-on-mustafi-deserved-red.456043/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/pickfords-tackle-on-vvd-what-should-be-the-punishment.458249/

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/aubameyang-horrific-tackle.452724/
 

roonster09

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I’m pretty sure there would have been, but zero chance I’m bothering to search from them :lol:

One person making a thread, and then all the spill over chat being discussed in there can’t be surprising. Not to mention there’s Chelsea fans defending it. I doubt anyone was trying to defend that Lo Celso stamp.
There are plenty of threads.
 
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A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.


Yes he cleared the ball but the force he went into that tackle
He didn’t go into a tackle, he is clearing a ball, Chilwell on the other hand is the one trying to tackle and terribly mistimed it.
 

big rons sovereign

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It doesn't matter if he couldn't negate the contact. That's irrelevant. The fact is there is contact. He's high. And he's studded him in the calf.
Come on mate, this is utter Bollox. Should players stop kicking the ball entirely? just incase like.
 

WeePat

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This is a clear and obvious error that will likely be overturned after an appeal. Accidents happens. Chilwell was fine a minute later.

If anything I'm glad it didn't happen earlier in the game, it would have completely ruined what was a fair, hard fought contest.
 

roonster09

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He didn’t go into a tackle, he is clearing a ball, Chilwell on the other hand is the one trying to tackle and terribly mistimed it.
Players should follow simple tactic, when player 1 goes for header, opponent should just plant his leg in the landing area and then cry for red card for player 1. Serious foul play, studs in the calf, knee wherever opponent wants.
 

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The overhead kick is going to be eradicated from the game at this rate. If VAR was around in 2011, all it would take was Micah Richards to go down clutching his face and they’d rule out Rooney’s goal for his foot being in an abnormal place. In the age of VAR if you hit the deck, you get the call.
 

PoTMS

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:lol:

Any other threads been created outside of the main VAR and referee one, in football forum, for specific incidents not involving Utd this season?

There have been loads of awful decisions but can't recall any. Even the Lo Celso stamp last year didn't get a thread iirc. Should we judge all red cards by the fact this wasn't one, from 1:30 here:

Why the feck would we be rattled? Who the feck are Chelsea to us? If anything, we want you to win this season, if only to stop Liverpool and City.
 

Berbasbullet

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So the Burnley lad that two footed Henderson should have gone, right?
 

UncleBob

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So the Burnley lad that two footed Henderson should have gone, right?
Ofcourse he should've been fecking sent off, it's a reckless challenge that endangers the safety of the opponent.
It's pure fecking luck that Hendersons momentum takes him just forward enough so that the Burnley player hits his left thigh instead of his right ankle.

 
Last edited:

Pow

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not so according to VAR as neither of these were


? I don't get your point.
Showing me two wrong decisions both of which should have also been red has no bearing on this incident. Its just means refs are inconsistent as shit
 

48 hours

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? I don't get your point.
Showing me two wrong decisions both of which should have also been red has no bearing on this incident. Its just means refs are inconsistent as shit
maybe read what I was replying to and you’ll see the relevance