This is what I like about this place. Rather than taking a step back and thinking about how they made comments to stupid or ignorant that even supporters of other clubs (in this latest edition even a French poster with no connection whatsoever to Bundesliga I believe) felt the need to object people just double down, channel all their delusion and say "BuNDeSLigA FaNs DefEndInG BaYeRn".
Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
Should I listen to you instead?
That right there for me is the issue. If I run Leipzig, it is in my interest to sell Upamecano to anyone not Bayern. But most of the BL fans have accepted its their fault that Bayern can take whatever player they want from them.
Bayern announced they are signing Dayot when Lepizig still had a realistic chance of winning the league. This kind of thing is un imaginable in the Premier League.
Wow, what a shocker. Bayern getting a direct rivals main man. Who would've thought it possible? A deal like this could really herald the beginning of a monopoly.
I mean, I get that you don't need those players and that they didn't exactly elevate you but at those points in time the clubs you got them from would received fees for them. Additionally, you're simply wrong regarding Vidal. Bayern even claimed publicly (!) that Vidal comes this year for the offer you made or will come for free next year. It was the player who got cold feet since he didn't want to return to Leverkusen and thus moved to Juventus for a slighlty higher fee. And it angered some of the Bayern officials, especially Hoeneß if I'm not mistaken, because he broke his word.
That aside, you're interpreting too much into my post. I strongly, strongly dislike your club but when discussing it I'm trying to be as neutral as possible. I would never argue that it isn't a brilliant accomplishment that you won 9 titles in a row. To me, you're one of the most professionally managed clubs in the world. The strategy I described is perfectly legit and it is what distinguishes you from clubs that now have serious financial problems like Barca or Real.
Still, you're so far off the rest financially that there's not much the competition can do and many of your business practices that made you this strong can only be seen through because of your dominance, like it or not.
I don't know, I think you're not really thinking in milieus. Take Berlin for example. As the saying goes, there are no Berliner in Berlin anymore. It's the city of hipsters, the left leaning intellectuals who are irritated by both the establishment and tribalism. The kind of people who'll criticize others for wearing German colors during a WC or for referring to the national team with "us". They will never unconditionally support a football club, in fact many of them compare the structures and mentalities of fan organizations with fascism. Hamburg is a similar environment. It's generally a bad fit for football support in its current form. Obviously I exaggerated a bit, but I think it gets my point across.
The Ruhrgebiet on the other hand is the complete opposite. It doesn't matter if the people are poorer as long as they are willing to spend every penny they have on the club. This mileu is much more "vulnerable" to tribalism. And even if the VIPs find them somewhat disgusting and wouldn't speak to them, their support is part of the attraction. And the fact that they're willing to defend their club with everything they have is important, too. Rivalry is a fuel. It's the reason why derbies are still among the most watched matches in the world, even by neutrals.
Liverpool and United aren't the prettiest cities either. In fact I don't even have a clue what I would visit there apart from the stadiums. Yet, Liverpool's "You'll never walk alone" is known all over the world and United as far as I know is a working class club as well, yet both clubs among the richest in the world.
Bayern are a very well run club - Schalke on the other hand are very poorly run, with players like Neuer, Ozil, Kehrer, Howedes, Kolasinac, McKennie, Meyer, Draxler, Leroy Sane, Matip, Gundogan to name but a few who were once their players yet they've won nothing and now find themselves relegated.
Schalke might be the most extreme example, but other clubs are feckups as well. Leverkusen, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart etc Bayern is an easy target, but the truth of the matter is the mismanagement of other clubs it's not down to Bayern Munchen.
Ok fair enough, I agree that regularly refreshing the team with new players is very important for sustained success, but I think you're overstating the importance of some of these players in Bayern's dominance since 2012. That's not to say they're not good players, but United definitely has access to players of such quality.
Gomez, Mandzukic, Dante and Gustavo are all good players and played their part in Bayern's first treble, but their importance pretty much fizzled out after that, if they didn't leave straight away. Rode and Rudy are decent players, but just squad players at the end of the day. The same applies to Pizarro's second spell at Bayern, after all he was already 33 or so, and basically had Choupo Moting's role. I forgot Hummels, obviously he was important. Kimmich was a young player playing in the second league, even if ultimately he was bought from Stuttgart. And if media reports are to be believed, Gnabry was essentially loaned to Bremen in all but name rather than bought from them.
Refreshing the team continually has definitely been an important part for Bayern, but I think there are better examples than some of those names mentioned. After all they also bought Xabi Alonso, Thiago, Javi Martinez, Vidal, Tolisso, Bernat and tried to find long term replacements for Robbery in Shaquiri and Douglas Costa. On top of that other players that ultimately didn't succeed like Benatia, or Renato Sanches, and loan players James, Coutinho etc.
So overall I don't see how them refreshing the team, or their success in general, is very Bundesliga focussed at all.
Hamburg, Berlin, Bremen...list goes on and on
The most interesting aspect of this deal for me personally, is being able to see what Naglesmann vision will look like with a large budget and very talented players.
Would love to hear from the Bundesliga fans how they think a Naglesmann team will look compared to the current play from Flick?
Would love to hear from the Bundesliga fans how they think a Naglesmann team will look compared to the current play from Flick?
Am I missing something here? Bayern is 7 pts ahead with 3 games to go. Mathematically it’s possible but practically it isn’t, so complaining about conflict of interest is just making a mountain out of molehill.
Interested in seeing how he does but that league desparately needs a club catching up with Bayern.
Tactical flexibility is one of his biggest strengths. I think, within certain principles, he adjusts his approach to his team. For all we know he might end up playing almost exactly the same stuff that Flick does - at least on the surface.
Didn't Bayern know that stick to a manager regardless of trophies, is the most successful way?
I'm not specifically talking about this particular situation but a situation where a team hires a competing team's manager for the next season while the current season is still ongoing.
Beginning of a monopoly?
Not seeing it unless you get a PSG or City type investment
Well, this is a failed Ole shoe-in if there ever was one, since the club is being sacked by Flick, not the other way around.
It wasn't their choice to get rid of Flick, he more or less forced himself out over a conflict with the DoF - probably thinking he'll either win the conflict or get the job at the German national team, so he couldn't really lose either way.
Was nailed on minute Flick decided to leave
i know. Sorry.
But context matters, isn’t it? There’s a big difference regarding the potential integrity of competition when two teams are locked in a dead heat or when the competition is essentially over. And even then, you still run into the classic question of how much influence does one individual, be it a manager or star player, have on the overall performance.
Ultimately, it’s on the individuals involved and the leadership of the club, whether they deem the outgoing manager/player is capable of performing his duty to the maximum capacity.
If that's the subject, the blame should rather go to Dortmund for taking rose off Gladbach, and then for Gladbach for getting Frankfurt's coach in turn.
On serious note, Bayern gets themselves a prodigy of manager, imho. Also knows the League, while playing good football. Although why didn't they just go for Klopp? 
Flick was pretty extreme in regards to attacking/pressing. I'd expect a bit more balance overall, maybe closer to Heyncke's Bayern.
Imo there is the Klopp/Guardiola scale between power/pressing football and extreme possession football. Under Flick we ended up being more extreme in this regard than even Klopp's Dortmund team while imo Heynckes' team in 12/13 was imo the best balance we had over the last 10 years even though you could argue that the football looked more impressive under Guardiola.
So my "expectation" is at least some more stability/balance (our defense has to improve, there is no question about that) while not abandoning what made us so strong under Flick. I don't want boring LvG possession football but there is certainly a better balance to be had than just "attack, attack, attack" and trying to outscore every opponent.
I'm sure he is "on the list" but just like in previous years the timing just didn't work out. Klopp is obviously still happy at Liverpool or else he might have taken the Germany job before all of this with Flick happened.On serious note, Bayern gets themselves a prodigy of manager, imho. Also knows the League, while playing good football. Although why didn't they just go for Klopp?
Sorry, can't tell anymore with all the uninformed nonsense going around in this thread!
Yes. I was not conjuring up a very realistic scenario. Just saying, noone has the clear leverage in this triangle of nonsense.
Actually dislike Club frequently changing managers. It's always a mess and costly. Except Mourinho though. That guy fecking deserved it. Sorry again for the rant.Sorry, can't tell anymore with all the uninformed nonsense going around in this thread!
I was being sarcastic.
The ironic thing is if it wasn't for the "sugar daddies" of the Shieks, Roman, Fiszman and Walker that would probably be the reality of the PL all the way through with United playing the role of Bayern. The economic situation in this country is the only reason this league is competitive.
Is what Bayern have done to RB in isolation any worse than how Leicester's players are currently being cherry picked by teams they are currently directly competing with and likewise Arsenal's in late 00's/early 10's?
If the impressions on the Bayern forum I sometimes look at are anything to go by, Klopp is seriously unpopular with Bayern fans, calling him "the camel". I'm sure most of them would get in line as he his a great manager but they really do not like him nor his style of play. Though I'm sure the latter is influenced by him handing them more than one painful defeat over the years. Tuchel would have been the first choice for many as far as I can tell if as he is seen as great tactically and style-wise and for the fact that he is seen as the one who got one over the Dortmund hierarchy and their portrayal as the 'people's club'. The vegan odd-ball who apparently wouldn't eat currywurst with the bosses and in many ways represents the anti-Klopp. As he is unavailable, Nagelsmann is indeed the obvious choice and I also think that they have got themselves a seriously impressive manager.On serious note, Bayern gets themselves a prodigy of manager, imho. Also knows the League, while playing good football. Although why didn't they just go for Klopp?
Klopp was asked if he would consider coaching the national team or Bayern and he replied he will be the coach at Liverpool.On serious note, Bayern gets themselves a prodigy of manager, imho. Also knows the League, while playing good football. Although why didn't they just go for Klopp?
Oh don't worry I've read to what he responded to and it was neither stupid nor ignorant. Thus my curiosity. But nice the way you worked with the cap lock there. Really creative and shows your superior knowledge on that matter.
I haven't looked at Bayern forums in years but the last time I did I remember that they hated virtually everything and had pejorative terms for each ones of these things.
Two factors imo. Money and the chance to win the CL and well pretty much guaranteed domestic trophies. So unless they are Harry Kanes they will all jump on the chance of winning trophies and earning more than they could at any other club in Germany.
If anything Bayerns only real competition for the best Bundesliga players comes from outside the league, Premiere League and the Spanish giants.
Doesn't matter, could be the bum on the street as long as it isn't Lodda.
Yeah, agreed with all of the above. I suppose the "closest" to Kane in recent memory might have been Reus? Stayed loyal to Dortmund - albeit he's been quite injury prone and I'm not 100% sure if Bayern were ever interested seen as they had prime Robbery
But yeah, the lack of resources from the other clubs is a major contributor of what's causing this "issue".
Hardly more fun, though.
If Bayern don't sign them, do you think they will stay at Leipzig as Werner and Naby Keita did?
When Bayern didnt sign from Dortmund for the past 5 seasons did Auba Miki, Dembele Pulisic Sancho? stay?
Are you saying Bayern should not be allowed to sign from Bundesliga and every club domestic and foreign should be able to
On serious note, Bayern gets themselves a prodigy of manager, imho. Also knows the League, while playing good football. Although why didn't they just go for Klopp?
Nah, we were certainly interested in Reus and we were 100% after him when he was still with Gladbach. He decided to go to Dortmund because he didn't want to compete with Ribery and Robben for a spot which was reasonable at the time.Yeah, agreed with all of the above. I suppose the "closest" to Kane in recent memory might have been Reus? Stayed loyal to Dortmund - albeit he's been quite injury prone and I'm not 100% sure if Bayern were ever interested seen as they had prime Robbery
But yeah, the lack of resources from the other clubs is a major contributor of what's causing this "issue".
Also people might think players always chose us over every other german club but Reus isn't the only example where Dortmund competes for a player with us and wins out, especially when it comes to younger players. We were also interested in Dembele, Sancho and Bellingham before they joined Dortmund and there is certainly a trend in the last few years where we end up going for the same players but that's an area Dortmund has an advantage in.
Just glad he's not gone to Spurs. He's obviously a sensible guy.