I thought Corbyn has been kicked out of the Labour Party? How long has Starmer been the leader?
Why is Corbyn still being blamed?
Why is Corbyn still being blamed?
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
You can't really do that given the difference in areas. Our council tax is quite high but its spent really well, which seems to be the case in a lot of the south compared to when I've lived in the north.
In these kind of areas the council tax grading makes sense because flats down the street aren't going to want to pay for the additional services of a parish council.
Angela Rayner is my MP, and I think she is very good. I also think she'll be destroyed by the media for sounding a bit dopey because of her accent, just like Corbyn was for having a scruffy coat.
I've not agreed with much you've said on here today, but I doubt you'll find many who disagree with that. It's a ridiculous way of doing things.
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Angela Rayner's personal 'back story' is a fantastic one, she overcame many problems.
I have heard Angela talk many times about her personal story, about her personal aspiration (something Labour lacks, sometimes doesn't even acknowledge in working class people) but she nearly always puts her success down to her politics, when in truth it was down to her personal strength and determination.
I agree she would need a style guru to help, but its her personal 'back story' that is the winner and Labour should study this woman in detail.
Yeah, ironically, she has had the "pulling herself up by the bootstraps" life that is the dream of your average Tory voter.
And I'm not mocking her for her dopey accent, as it's the same as my dopey accent!
and mine.....when I'm p****d!!
In focusing on the lacklustre Starmer (or the divisive Corbyn), we perhaps underestimate just how good Johnson is at winning campaigns. Twice London mayor, 2016 referendum and the 2019 general election. His appeal is lost on me but he clearly connects with a large number of people in a way we have not seen since Blair. Even without all the deep-rooted structural issues stacked against Labour (loss of mass unionisation, the post-Brexit culture wars and the home ownership v renter split), the party needs to be bolder with policy and possibly leadership. Forensic questioning doesn’t land many punches on the greased piglet.
That should be the slogan at the next Labour conference
Which part of Brizzle are you in, if you don’t mind saying?
Excellent Idea, from someone who has many excellent ideas.
Maybe so. But she is not afraid to say what she believes in and can normally stand her ground.
Sent you a PM. Cheers.
I know this only too well. I was born in Jacksdale and grew up in Ripley, both in the East Midlands, both former mining towns in the Amber Valley constituency. Grandad was a miner and I remember a cousin going off to University in London, daring to suggest he might vote Conservative and getting a strongly-worded phonecall from my Nan telling him he could stay down there if he thought that way!
Recently, that sentiment has passed. The area is blighted by crime and drugs. There are virtually no genuine career prospects. There is a desperate need for investment. Most people in the town work long hours and can barely afford to make ends meet. Yet recently the town has turned out en masse to elect Tories. Why? Because “Labour are the Party of Britain-hating, Wokies who want to take what little they have and hand it to Muslims and Asylum Seekers”. It’s really sad that I find it difficult to maintain friendships with people who are good, genuine people who would go out of their way to help a neighbour but who have been brainwashed into fearing a threat that doesn’t exist. As to your point, according to the last national census, Ripley is “the most English town in the UK” based on etymology of the surnames of the population. Yet ask them WHY they vote Conservative and “immigration”, “Brexit” or “asylum seekers” will be mentioned within 30 seconds.
I don’t know what you do about that. Certainly Keir Starmer isn’t the man to turn around public opinion in those towns. He is just another man in a suit, representing the teachers, the foremen and the other authority figures they resent
That is a very good assessment.
As I have mentioned, politics is much more about personality than policy. And whatever else, Boris is a big personality, with a degree of charisma.
People don't really care about policy anymore. Far too complicated. They don't really care about honestly either. Just someone who they feel will get things done by fair means or foul.
But the thing about personality is that eventually, people get fed up and move on to someone else. Just like a so called celeb.
That is life I am afraid.
Demagogues are in. Johnson, Bolsonaro, Trump. The Americans were smart enough to oust theirs. We seem hell-bent on keeping ours.
There was no stance labour could have taken which would have won the election, their entire voter base was split down the middle.
The problem with Labour is that they did not nail their colours to the mast over brexit, because they were so nervous about getting it wrong. It made them look very weak and far too indecisive to govern. This failure has absolutely crippled them. They just can't recover.
Whether you like Boris or not, in the run up to the election the conservatives never wavered in their policy on brexit, which is the single most critical issue the country has faced in our lifetime.
Brexit could have been a disaster, but Borris and co made it very clear where they stood, and if brexit was a disaster, the buck would stop with them. Labour didn't want to upset the many Labour voters who wanted brexit, and also wanted to hoover up a lot of remain voters by offering them some hope that brexit could be stopped with a second referendum. Trying to please everyone totally backfired. They were perceived as being too indecisive, and afraid to upset anyone.
16 months on from the election defeat, they still won't explain their position on brexit, because they want to try and somehow win back the trust of those disgruntled traditional Labour heartland voters.
Until the Labour party stops trying to please everybody, and starts being clear where they stand on divisive issues, their decline will continue. If they still believe that brexit was the wrong decision, and I think most of them do, then they should get fully behind that stance with an understanding that they will lose many of their voters, but will gain new ones. If things start going pear shaped as a result of brexit, Labour would have gained a lot of credibility by being apposed to it from the very beginning.
Right now they're perceived as being too nervous about making a stand, with the risk of being wrong and becoming unpopular. A government like this would be a disaster. Starmer and co have to have the balls to draw up policies that they believe in, and then stake the reputation of Labour on those policies. So what if it fails? Better to shoot for the moon and miss, than to shoot at nothing and hit it every time.
Jesus...
Completely agree. We saw this with the attempted ‘crowd pleasing’ policies of the last manifesto.
free broadband etc - even admitted these came from focus groups.
everyone can see it was desperation. That’s not attractive from a voters perspective.
policies should come from core beliefs, not from survey monkey. Before anyone comes back with a dig at the tories - that’s the problem, having a go at the tories, but not actually standing for anything themselves.
Wait, the Tories are fixing the awful roads?
Why the hell hasn't anyone told the useless shower of shite that run my area then!
Why the hell hasn't anyone told the useless shower of shite that run my area then!
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Greens benefiting from the vaccine bounce
To be fair to him, he gave up his rented property when he bought a house last year, so he’s solved the housing crisis.
420’000 people used that scheme. But by all means if you cant knock the policy just try and make a joke. Been really succeeding in winning votes of late
Which scheme are you specifically talking about here? Help to buy, or stamp duty?
People loving getting hand outs from the state. Bunch of free loaders so of course it's going to be a popular policy.
its an equity loan with interest but carry on
help to buy
you pay back more than you borrow. Its no more a handout than a mortage but hey ho
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then why did you choose it over a regular mortgage
greens are benefiting from the Lib Dem’s who were always the option when you couldn’t or wouldn’t want to vote for the two main parties.
the point of help to buy is to reduce the amount of deposit people need to save for.
Brexit was a horrible dilemma for Labour as the country was evenly split on a population basis but overall pro-Brexit on a constituency basis (the measure which counts in winning elections). If they had come out as pro-Brexit, they would have haemorrhaged votes in cities to the Lib Dems even while retaining more of the votes in the Northern small towns.
I agree Labour need to be bolder though and offer up a more compelling vision than grey lawyerly competence. What exactly that vision is and how it attracts Labour’s three traditional tribes (socially conservative “working class” in post-industrial areas, centrists and Corbynites), God knows....