Most overrated 'world class' player?

Dirty Schwein · May 11, 2021

Steven Gerrard was world class at fecking things up in such a spectacular way that even a Hollywood script would feel too unrealistic if they simply stuck to the facts.

Beyond that, I don't think there are too many world class players over a period of time that are overrated. Class added to consistency are easy to spot I reckon.

Skills · May 11, 2021

hasanejaz88 said:
Looking at that list and the two names that pop up are Casillas and Dani Alves.

For Casillas, to see him have more nominations than Neuer and Buffon doesn't seem right. Though, for Buffon, you can argue that he would have had more nominations before 2005. I always thought he was overrated during the late 00's because he put up some great one off performances but he would also make errors in other matches. He reminds me of Lloris in a way that Lloris also has the ability to make amazing saves but also occasionally made errors.

For Alves, I'm not going to say he is overrated as a world class player because he is definitely world class and one of the greatest right backs of all time. I don't think he should have as many nominations as he does though, considering his career coincided with Philip Lahm, who isn't even on the list. Alves was definitely preferred over Lahm due to a general La Liga bias during the early 2010s, as other people have pointed out.

I mean to have him over Lahm in 2013, when Lahm won the UCL, shows this clearly. Lahm was also great in 2012 when he reached the final.

I think Alves was robbed of a few nominations too. I don't know who was a better/more influential right back than him in 2006 and 2007 too. Seems like he only started getting picked after he joined Barcelona but he was the best player in a Seville team that won multiple UEFA Cups.

BlackShark_80 · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
Alves is universally seen as one of the best RB’s in history, period. Watch more football outside of the EPL.

don’t be so daft

Not even the best RB ever in Brazil. Cafu is universally seen as the gold standard for RB not Alves.

kingwaynerooney · May 11, 2021

Paul_Scholes18 said:
Iniesta and Dani Alves do not deserve that many nominations in a row I think.

I guess Xavi and Iniesta 2008-2012 deserved to be nominated under Spain dominance, but I feel Iniesta got the last picks on reputation when both Spain and Barca failed to win the big things.

Iniesta was class from his debut to his exit from europe. Top 5 all time.

oneniltothearsenal · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
Alves is universally seen as one of the best RB’s in history, period. Watch more football outside of the EPL.

don’t be so daft

He just mentioned Cafu, Zanetti, and Lahm, none of whom played in the EPL and all of whom are fairly rated above Alves.

passing-wind · May 11, 2021

I understand Ramos criticism defensively but he's been an astute leader at Real alongside Ronaldo largely responsible for the clubs domestic / european success merely through influence.

The most prominent name that comes to mind has to be Bale for me. I think the issue with Gareth has been Cristiano, he's never really been the "main man" which deflates his credentials for me. I credit Hazard more given his time at Chelsea.

SilentStrike · May 11, 2021

I definitely agree with Alves being overrated if you base how high someone is rated based on FIFpro nominations. Especially when Alves played in the same era as Lahm, who I rate far higher than Alves.

That said I think most football fans rate Lahm higher than Alves and most football fans are aware that those nominations are basically popularity contests which heavily favors Real/Barca. Therefore the amount of nominations is not a good measurement for how high someone is rated.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

BlackShark_80 said:
Not even the best RB ever in Brazil. Cafu is universally seen as the gold standard for RB not Alves.

I said one of, and Alves is absolutely seen as one of the greatest right backs in history

Klopper76 · May 11, 2021

Ozil used to get labelled as world class by Arsenal fans and he wasn’t. He’s never reached those heights since arriving in England.

Suedesi · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
Alves is universally seen as one of the best RB’s in history, period. Watch more football outside of the EPL.

don’t be so daft

You're right, I should - because the three outstanding RB's I mentioned in a few posts above were all PL players...

hasanejaz88 · May 11, 2021

Klopper76 said:
Ozil used to get labelled as world class by Arsenal fans and he wasn’t. He’s never reached those heights since arriving in England.

I think he was still world class up until 2016, which was when his decline happened. He was still creating tons of chances in his first few years at Arsenal, while at Bremen and Madrid he was a truly world class player.

Infact, l will put it that Ozil was world class at Arsenal up until Cazorla got injured. You could see that after the unity he was forced to play a bit deeper as Arsenal missed the player to control possession from deep and bring it forward to the final third. Arsenal never really replaced Cazorla, which was the beginning of the decline for them and Ozil.

amolbhatia50k · May 11, 2021

Alves is the best RB I've ever seen.

hasanejaz88 · May 11, 2021

Suedesi said:
I love Philip Lahm and in 2013 he should have gotten the nod, but didn't Pep play him in midfield and tuck Rafinha on the right?

Casillas is overrated compared to Neuer, Buffon and even Navas.

And strictly speaking Ronaldo shouldn't have made the 2020 team after he managed to get knocked out in the round of 16 by Lyon, some other player was more deserving.

Yea Pep did convert Lahm into a DM when he first came in, maybe that did sway voters away from giving Lahm the vote as a RB. Regardless, he was still a RB for Germany as well and shouldn't gotten the vote.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

amolbhatia50k said:
Alves is the best RB I've ever seen.

yes

tjb · May 11, 2021

Bale.

The British media pushed this idea. Nani should have won the PFA Award in 2011 and if not him, then it should have been Vidic. Instead, we heard all the talk about how Bale destroyed a ruined Inter in the UCL. Van Der Vaart was just as good for Spurs that season. 2013, both RVP and Suarez deserved it over him, regardless of some of his heroics. The things he did were pushed to the moon, whilst Suarez' were ignored. Suarez literally had to have the greatest premier league season of all time ( this or Henry 03) to win the award.

Then he went to Madrid. The British press at one stage even tried to push an agenda of Bale having issues with " selfish" Ronaldo to justify moments of poor form. He was constantly compared to Neymar when Suarez was better than him the whole time. Zidane dropped him and the media again acted like Bale was too good to drop. Not saying he was bad, but he never was as good as he was made out to be.

RedRonaldo · May 11, 2021

Marcelo was easily the best left back in the world during his peak, no doubt about that.

Modric though, I thought he is good but not Ballon D’or good. Hence he is overrated.

Ramos was definitely overrated. He is not the best defender of the generation people made out to be, far from it actually. But he is an outstanding goalscoring defender though, who is willing to fight and injured opponents players if necessary, that’s about it.

Other overrated players: Pique, Seedorf, De Gea.

hmchan · May 11, 2021

Kante

bosnian_red · May 11, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
Modric though, I thought he is good but not Ballon D’or good. Hence he is overrated.

That one was due to being brilliant for Real Madrid, winning the CL, and then being the player of the tournament for Croatia and getting them to the semi finals... it was deserved for that year IMO.

Zlaatan · May 11, 2021

Suedesi said:
Yeah ok, for a world class player surrounded by world class colleagues, Pique certainly loves a good spanking in Europe year in year out. 7-0 by Bayern, 4-0 by PSG, 3-0 by Juve, 3-0 by Roma, 4-0 by Liverpool, I mean... WTF, how many excuses does he need? I forgot about the 8-2, or the latest PSG debacle but I'm sure there are valid excuses on ALL of those matches and he was otherwise flawless.

I think his excuse is that football isn't a 1v1 sport and listing 5 games where a team concedes 3+ goals doesn't automatically mean one of the CB's in those games hasn't been that good over the past 15 years. You can lose a game 5-0 and your CB can be the best player on the pitch by a country mile, just like you can keep a clean sheet while your CB is absolutely terrible. Not saying the former was the case with Pique in those games but it's not exactly scientific to say he's overrated because he was on a team that lost big a few times.

Pow · May 11, 2021

Dani alves was worldclass for years. Ran the flank. Nonsense to suggest otherwise.

RedRonaldo · May 11, 2021

bosnian_red said:
That one was due to being brilliant for Real Madrid, winning the CL, and then being the player of the tournament for Croatia and getting them to the semi finals... it was deserved for that year IMO.

Sure I know the reason, but I just don’t think he is good enough for it. For example, before the WC, no one talks about him being candidates for Ballon D’or. In truth, he only has a few excellent games in WC (mostly during group stages). I’d argue he wasn’t clear cut Croatia best player in knockout stages, and he has a forgettable performance in final, which his team loss badly. Then, year after 2018 and since, he wasn’t even among top 30 players in world. All in all, I’d say it’s just an one off lucky coincidence for him.

thepolice123 · May 11, 2021

Alves getting so many appearances is definitely a head scratcher.

Still one of the best attacking fullbacks I have ever seen and easily an all time great. Personally, I've have him over Cafu.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
Sure I know the reason, but I just don’t think he is good enough for it. For example, before the WC, no one talks about him being candidates for Ballon D’or. In truth, he only has a few excellent games in WC (mostly during group stages). I’d argue he wasn’t clear cut Croatia best player in knockout stages, and he has a forgettable performance in final, which his team loss badly. Then, year after 2018 and since, he wasn’t even among top 30 players in world. All in all, I’d say it’s just an one off lucky coincidence for him.

You could say the same about Ronaldo at the euros, 3 good games the whole tournament in fairness

RedRonaldo · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
You could say the same about Ronaldo at the euros, 3 good games the whole tournament in fairness

You mean year 2016?

Let’s see... he scored 51 goals for his club, 13 goals in 13 games for his country throughout the year, then he also won CL as top scorer/best player of tournament, and won Euro for Portugal the very first time in their history as captain and Portugal most impactful player (with most goals/assists). There are at least 4 strong reasons for him winning it.

Modric has a few motm performances in WC group stage, he didn’t win the WC though, and was happened to be one of key players for Madrid winning CL. That’s about it. There’s no strong reason for him winning it, only if you count the few motm performances in WC groups stages, and winning CL as one of key players as the strong factor, but he is not a clear cut winner for sure. There are several players in WC who had few motm performance too, and there are also several key players during Real CL winning campaign, he wasn’t really the one who stand out in both. He didn’t win WC, only has a CL trophy. He just happened to be lucky winning it.

tjb · May 11, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
You mean year 2016?

Let’s see... he scored 51 goals for his club, 13 goals in 13 games for his country throughout the year, then he also won CL as top scorer/best player of tournament, and won Euro for Portugal the very first time in their history as captain and Portugal most impactful player (with most goals/assists). There are at least 4 strong reasons for him winning it.

Modric has a few motm performances in WC group stage, he didn’t win the WC though, and was happened to be one of key players for Madrid winning CL. That’s about it. There’s no strong reason for him winning it, only if you count the few motm performances in WC groups stages, and winning CL as one of key players as the strong factor.

I'd argue that Kroos was better in the 2017/2018 La Liga campaign.

Dante · May 11, 2021

tjb said:
Bale.

The British media pushed this idea. Nani should have won the PFA Award in 2011 and if not him, then it should have been Vidic. Instead, we heard all the talk about how Bale destroyed a ruined Inter in the UCL. Van Der Vaart was just as good for Spurs that season. 2013, both RVP and Suarez deserved it over him, regardless of some of his heroics. The things he did were pushed to the moon, whilst Suarez' were ignored. Suarez literally had to have the greatest premier league season of all time ( this or Henry 03) to win the award.

Then he went to Madrid. The British press at one stage even tried to push an agenda of Bale having issues with " selfish" Ronaldo to justify moments of poor form. He was constantly compared to Neymar when Suarez was better than him the whole time. Zidane dropped him and the media again acted like Bale was too good to drop. Not saying he was bad, but he never was as good as he was made out to be.

The British media didn't pay a world record fee for him.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
You mean year 2016?

Let’s see... he scored 51 goals for his club, 13 goals in 13 games for his country throughout the year, then he also won CL as top scorer/best player of tournament, and won Euro for Portugal the very first time in their history as captain and Portugal most impactful player (with most goals/assists). There are at least 4 strong reasons for him winning it.

Modric has a few motm performances in WC group stage, he didn’t win the WC though, and was happened to be one of key players for Madrid winning CL. That’s about it. There’s no strong reason for him winning it, only if you count the few motm performances in WC groups stages, and winning CL as one of key players as the strong factor, but he is not a clear cut winner for sure. There are several players in WC who had few motm performance too, and there are also several key players during Real CL winning campaign, he wasn’t really the one who stand out in both. He didn’t win WC, only has a CL trophy. He just happened to be lucky winning it.

Again, you can say the same about Ronaldo. Missed the final, and Eder was the biggest reason that narrative changed on the NT stage.

Modric was a fine winner for 2018. I understand a debate about it but he was superb in that 2018 WC and as a midfielder was great in the 2018 Madrid side. He was always the engine of that team, providing the service to Ronaldo. He was the best midfielder in the world.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

tjb said:
I'd argue that Kroos was better in the 2017/2018 La Liga campaign.

He wasn’t, modric had more MOTM awards and while whoscored isn’t the end all be all, he had a higher rating than Kroos that season and had the best whoscored rating of any World Cup player that year.

RedRonaldo · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
He wasn’t, modric had more MOTM awards and while whoscored isn’t the end all be all, he had a higher rating than Kroos that season and had the best whoscored rating of any World Cup player that year.

Since you are using whoscored rating as your basis of argument, let’s take a look at Modric overall performance at 2018 Ballon D’or winning year in terms of whoscored criteria:

La Liga: 7.29 avg rating, 0 motm
CL: 7.02 avg rating, 0 motm
WC: 7.48 avg rating, 1 motm

Well deserve Ballon D’or winner? Absolutely not.

tjb · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
He wasn’t, modric had more MOTM awards and while whoscored isn’t the end all be all, he had a higher rating than Kroos that season and had the best whoscored rating of any World Cup player that year.

Kroos had a 7.47 on whoscored that year, Modric had a 7.29 (in La Liga)

RedRonaldo · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
Again, you can say the same about Ronaldo. Missed the final, and Eder was the biggest reason that narrative changed on the NT stage.

Modric was a fine winner for 2018. I understand a debate about it but he was superb in that 2018 WC and as a midfielder was great in the 2018 Madrid side. He was always the engine of that team, providing the service to Ronaldo. He was the best midfielder in the world.

You are missing the point of discussion, the whole while we are talking about whether the player deserved to win Ballon D’or throughout the year as to whether they are overrated or not, you have put forward Ronaldo argument in Euro. I have then listed out their overall achievements, stats performance over their respective year for comparison sake, but you end up arguing about the one game he was injured by the opponents player. Lets just do it fairly and compare everything again, Ronaldo in 2016 vs Modric in 2018, as to who was being overrated in winning Ballon D’or then:

Ronaldo in 2016:
- Euro winner
- CL winner
- Portugal best player/top scorer/assist in winning Euro
- Real Madrid best player/top scorer in winning CL
- overall 55 goals 17 assist in 57 games in 2016
- La Liga: 7.99 avg rating in whoscored, 8 motm
- CL: 8.11 avg rating in whoscored, 7 motm

Modric in 2018
- CL winner
- Croatia best player in WC
- One of Real Madrid key player in winning CL
- overall 4 goals 8 assist in 44 games
- La Liga: 7.29 avg rating in whoscored, 0 motm
- CL: 7.02 avg rating in whoscored, 0 motm

Based on above, there’s night and day difference for the 2 players in terms of being worthy Ballon D’or winner or not. You may argue Modric has a great WC, especially during group stages, and a great CL campaign as one of his team key players winning the trophy. That’s about it. Over the course of the year, he wasn’t really stand out player for winning the award. For Ronaldo case, from whatever perspective, he clearly stands out.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
You are missing the point of discussion, the whole while we are talking about whether the player deserved to win Ballon D’or throughout the year as to whether they are overrated or not, you have put forward Ronaldo argument in Euro. I have then listed out their overall achievements, stats performance over their respective year for comparison sake, but you end up arguing about the one game he was injured by the opponents player. Lets just do it fairly and compare everything again, Ronaldo in 2016 vs Modric in 2018, as to who was being overrated in winning Ballon D’or then:

Ronaldo in 2016:
- Euro winner
- CL winner
- Portugal best player/top scorer/assist in winning Euro
- Real Madrid best player/top scorer in winning CL
- overall 55 goals 17 assist in 57 games in 2016
- La Liga: 7.99 avg rating in whoscored, 8 motm
- CL: 8.11 avg rating in whoscored, 7 motm

Modric in 2018
- CL winner
- Croatia best player in WC
- One of Real Madrid key player in winning CL
- overall 4 goals 8 assist in 44 games
- La Liga: 7.29 avg rating in whoscored, 0 motm
- CL: 7.02 avg rating in whoscored, 0 motm

Based on above, there’s night and day difference for the 2 players in terms of being worthy Ballon D’or winner or not. You may argue Modric has a great WC, especially during group stages, and a great CL campaign as one of his team key players winning the trophy. That’s about it. Over the course of the year, he wasn’t really stand out player for winning the award. For Ronaldo case, from whatever perspective, he clearly stands out.

Ronaldo was not the best player at 2016 euro, Griezmann won the award. As far as Portugal is concerned even Ronaldo said Pepe deserved player of the tournament. Ronaldo had 3 good game’s the entire tournament. Modric was the best player at the 2018 World Cup.

goals are going to inflate whoscored ratings and there is no question ronaldo was great in 2016, but so was Modric in 2018. He is the metronome for that Madrid squad.
And using goals and assists is similar to arguing Iniesta’s value with goals and assists which doesn’t make sense. Neither of those players get a lot of goals or assists but they are insanely influential for their respective teams.

Daysleeper · May 11, 2021

tjb said:
Kroos had a 7.47 on whoscored that year, Modric had a 7.29 (in La Liga)

My apologies, I was comparing 2018-2019 on accident which is clearly the wrong season. Thanks for pointing that out.

RedRonaldo · May 11, 2021

Daysleeper said:
Ronaldo was not the best player at 2016 euro, Griezmann won the award. As far as Portugal is concerned even Ronaldo said Pepe deserved player of the tournament. Ronaldo had 3 good game’s the entire tournament. Modric was the best player at the 2018 World Cup.

goals are going to inflate whoscored ratings and there is no question ronaldo was great in 2016, but so was Modric in 2018. He is the metronome for that Madrid squad.
And using goals and assists is similar to arguing Iniesta’s value with goals and assists which doesn’t make sense. Neither of those players get a lot of goals are assist but they are insanely influential for their respective teams.

You are just cherry picking bits by bits for argument sake. I never said Ronaldo is best player in Euro, nor did I only use stats as the only decisive factor to compare. But Ronaldo is definitely the best player and most impactful player throughout the year for sure, with Ballon D’or worthy winning stats, top class whoscored avg rating/motm, and every biggest trophies and impact in winning those trophies to back it up.

You really can’t say the same thing about Modric, all he got is an one-off excellent tournament (a few good games in the entire tournament) where he had failed to win, and a CL trophy where he wasn’t by any means best player or most impactful player anyway, to back it up. His whoscored rating throughout the year, is nothing but underwhelming too. I am not expecting he get an avg rating of 8 like Ronaldo did, as he doesn’t have the goals to push his rating up. But he wasn’t even best rating midfielder for his position in his own team, which is extremely underwhelming for someone who won Ballon D’or.

I mean, just look at De Bruyne, his avg rating last season for City, is 7.97. Even Pogba, during his first season with us, has 7.72 avg rating. Modric in his Ballon D’or winning year, only got 7.29 in league and 7.02 in CL. What the feck is that? And then we have many people like you who think he is deserved winner and best midfielder of the era. If he is not overrated, I don’t know who else is overrated.

Number32 · May 11, 2021

The most overate world class players was in 2012. Chelsea vs Bayern in the Champions League final, but they gave the awards to both Real Madrid and Barcelona starting line up. I know Spain is the Euro champion that year, but Marcelo and Alves were poor choice ahead of Lahm.

Bebestation · May 11, 2021

tjb said:
Bale.

The British media pushed this idea. Nani should have won the PFA Award in 2011 and if not him, then it should have been Vidic. Instead, we heard all the talk about how Bale destroyed a ruined Inter in the UCL. Van Der Vaart was just as good for Spurs that season. 2013, both RVP and Suarez deserved it over him, regardless of some of his heroics. The things he did were pushed to the moon, whilst Suarez' were ignored. Suarez literally had to have the greatest premier league season of all time ( this or Henry 03) to win the award.

Then he went to Madrid. The British press at one stage even tried to push an agenda of Bale having issues with " selfish" Ronaldo to justify moments of poor form. He was constantly compared to Neymar when Suarez was better than him the whole time. Zidane dropped him and the media again acted like Bale was too good to drop. Not saying he was bad, but he never was as good as he was made out to be.

I personally love Bale.

He went from an amazing LW, to arguably playing CAM/SS for Wales.

I felt that RW held him back a bit but it had to be done because of Ronaldo and Benzema.

One of my favourite goals of all time vs Liverpool one that I could watch again and again.

Jaxa · May 11, 2021

Van Dijk

Adam-Utd · May 11, 2021

Wow, this thread is full of people who clearly don't understand football.

Marcelo, Modric, Dani Alves overrated? :lol:

Bebestation · May 11, 2021

Maybe Im wrong but I will say Neymar.

The guy is just a different level of low now without the system of Barcelona helping him.

When you consider how Suarez has done this season when leaving Barcelona (and where Barcelona are without him) - then maybe Suarez was the second best forward at Barcelona.

* Also shows that amazing players can potentially be found out when moving to different leagues and different clubs; (ie Neymar at PSG or Ronaldo at Juventus) this is why players who stick to one league or a single club maybe looked upon as taking a slightly easier career route by some people (but not all people).

do.ob · May 11, 2021

I think Iker's was incredibly lucke to be "born" into Real Madrid. I'm not sure he would have made it into a top team if he had to start out at a small(er) club.

Most overrated 'world class' player?

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