Feck it. Let's burn down OT. That will lower the value of the club and show how serious we are!
Who's with me?
Who's with me?
Guardian: Manchester United lose £200m training kit deal over fans’ anti-Glazers campaign
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
The back and forth between MUST and Joel Glazer brought about as a result of the protests is the most 'engagement' we've had between the fans and owners since they bought the bloody club
.Ok, gotcha, but specifically what concessions are you after? I'm all for constructive engagement but the issue with that is that, to date, the Glazers have shown precisely zero interest in engaging with fans so naturally people are a little skeptical about it now. Myself, I strongly suspect that the Glazers are just trying to weather this storm with some platitudes aimed at demonstrating to the fans that 'your voices are heard' before things go back to exactly as they were before. The stadium gets more run down, transfer outlay doesn't keep pace with rivals and when it does, the money is spent less-than-wisely, the family take more money out of the club etc. It's all very well talking vaguely about engagement and concessions but your endgame here seems just as woolly and poorly thought out as you're accusing 'the other side's' of being. The difference is that they're doing something proactively to effect change while you're posting on forums scoffing about how foolish they are to do so. It's very easy to call people clueless and to laugh at the lack of a plan but trickier to come up with something yourself, besides woolly waffle about 'engage and win concessions'.
Exactly!The back and forth between MUST and Joel Glazer brought about as a result of the protests is the most 'engagement' we've had between the fans and owners since they bought the bloody club
That’s exactly what’s happening though. After 16 years of silence Joel Glazer has sent two letters - one of which outlines concessions - and will attend the fan forum. He hasn’t just decided to attend that because he’s found a conscience - he’s been forced to engage and I think some pretty big changes will happen. They won’t be taking any dividends over the next few years that’s for sure - I also think there’ll be a willingness to sell x percent of voting right shares to fan groups if funds are raised with fan representation at board level. The price and the amount is obviously going to be the sticking point. Them using that money to pay off some of the debt or invest in infrastructure would be beautiful but I doubt Joel loves the club quite that much. All of this reduces their grip on the club and gives fans more power which is the point - it isn’t just about them selling - it’s about fans buying and having a say in the running of their community clubs so shit like the ESL and leveraged buyouts can’t happen again. I’m probably being naive but I’m confident something good will come of all this.
There’s a general disagreement as to what the actual endgame is here. Some people want a better dialogue between the club and owners with a view to improving the management of the club and to address key concerns, whereas others simply want the Glazers out no matter the cost.
I am in the former. I’m certainly not a fan of the Glazers, but I do want what’s best for the club. If they don’t follow up on their actions, then it will be another story. We will end up in the same situation again.
Yes
The protest was justified (though complaining about consequences of difficult fixture schedule is odd) and that’s what prompted the Glazers into opening up. This remains to be seen of course. But I think like you say most fans are happy if there’s better communication and investment.
I think carrying on relentlessly until there’s regime change is hawkish and I suspect spurred on primarily from hurt egos from those who failed to oust them in 2006 and 2011
“This ends when I’m vindicated and to hell with the consequences”. Sorry, no
yes that’s exactly my position.
The protest was justified (though complaining about consequences of difficult fixture schedule is odd) and that’s what prompted the Glazers into opening up. This remains to be seen of course. But I think like you say most fans are happy if there’s better communication and investment.
I think carrying on relentlessly until there’s regime change is hawkish and I suspect spurred on primarily from hurt egos from those who failed to oust them in 2006 and 2011
“This ends when I’m vindicated and to hell with the consequences”. Sorry, no
Yep. There's a bit of a vengeance vibe for some, the "we need to show them they can't get away with this!" view which is rather counter-productive. The Glazers did get away with it. That battle was lost in 2006. Taking a hardline isn't going to achieve anything, attempting to work with the current owners might.
Personally, I want the Glazers out but not at any cost and not by damaging the club. However, having said that, I feel that the best we can achieve without prostituting ourselves to the Saudi Murderer or his ilk, is to get the Glazers to work better and engage with the fans more. I will not support any movement that's Glazers Out at any cost and just hope for the future.
Hope that clarifies my position enough for you.
I'd like to know how many of the "extremists" have season tickets/have bought match ticket(s)/bought merchandise/subscribe to Sky or BT.
If they do any of the above then they are a major part of keeping the Glazers at the club.
Personally, I have done of the above since they took over the club.
Sort of, but not really. What do you specifically want to achieve? You mention to get the glazers to work better and to engage with the fans more but what does that look like to you? Because I can't imagine them working closer with the fans will lead to your stated ideal, which would see them out. So what is it? Fan representation at board level? More money for transfers? OT refurb? It just strikes me that many in this thread railing against 'extremists' for having no plan as to what happens if the Glazers do leave get a little hazy on the details of their own 'best case scenario' plans when pressed.
Was it you earlier in the thread saying that United fans sabotaging sponsorship income was dumb and counter productive as it would impact the club's activities in the transfer market and therefore on the pitch? Surely the same logic can be applied to refusing to buy the merch etc, no? Seems like double standards. Apologies if I'm confusing you with someone else.
Ideally the new owner(s) would pony up for new players and improve OT, whilst taking a minimal amount, or even nothing, out. I don't think that's realistic unless it's someone like the Saudi Murderer. So, for me, the Glazers have to treat United as a sporting club and appoint a CEO who's a lot more football orientated than Ed.
Yes, it is double standards, I will admit that, but the difference is, as far as I see it, that hardly anyone, extremist or moderate, has done or will do that whereas there appears to be a concerted online effort to sabotage sponsors and the club at this present time.
I can honestly say that i don't have that kind of cash
But lets be honest, you are right. If we are only talking about USA, then there are probably 120-150 people who have at least 4 Billion dollars as net worth. BUT we would get another Glazers if they would buy. People who would buy United they would have to have upwards of 8-10 Billion net worth. In US around 40-50 people have more than 8 billion. In the whole world there are 300 people who have more than 8 billion net worth. If we are talking about the kind of wealth prince Mansour has, then 80 people in the world have more money than that guy has. But we dont need cash injections. We as a community, as a club, don't need a billionaire owner. Man Utd has paid 31% of our turnover in the last 15 years to business related to Glazers (interest, loans, payments, dividends etc). Do you understand what we could have done with 2 billion pounds? Prince Mansour has put something like 1 Billion of his own money into Man City. We would have spent 2 billion on infrastructure, our youth everything. Do you understand what we could have been all those years? Instead Glazers just paid nearly 1 Billion to banks. Just as interest. Basically Glazers took out Quick Cash Loan and they still are paying it off. Loan is still around 500 mil. That is how bad businessmen they are
the first part of your post is interesting in showing how few individuals could buy the club.I can honestly say that i don't have that kind of cash
But lets be honest, you are right. If we are only talking about USA, then there are probably 120-150 people who have at least 4 Billion dollars as net worth. BUT we would get another Glazers if they would buy. People who would buy United they would have to have upwards of 8-10 Billion net worth. In US around 40-50 people have more than 8 billion. In the whole world there are 300 people who have more than 8 billion net worth. If we are talking about the kind of wealth prince Mansour has, then 80 people in the world have more money than that guy has. But we dont need cash injections. We as a community, as a club, don't need a billionaire owner. Man Utd has paid 31% of our turnover in the last 15 years to business related to Glazers (interest, loans, payments, dividends etc). Do you understand what we could have done with 2 billion pounds? Prince Mansour has put something like 1 Billion of his own money into Man City. We would have spent 2 billion on infrastructure, our youth everything. Do you understand what we could have been all those years? Instead Glazers just paid nearly 1 Billion to banks. Just as interest. Basically Glazers took out Quick Cash Loan and they still are paying it off. Loan is still around 500 mil. That is how bad businessmen they are
we can all agree The Glazers are not the owners we want - but your last sentence is untrue.
Unfortunately from a business perspective, what they have done is very prudent, and if they sold tomorrow they would walk away with at least £2bn. That’s good business.
Okay, i agree with buying United, they did well. But still, just think that their net worth, which means that their whole net worth today is around 4,7 billion. Out of which Utd and Tampa are 3,1 and 1,5 billion. When those guys sell Utd they will just burn that cash.
Like when Avram sold some of his shares about a year ago and the reason was his mansion refurbishment. Bi*ch you didnt have money to paint your mansion? Then what the f are u doing with a mansion anyway?
That is why i think they will eventually sell. When i gave those numbers who could sell, i didnt calculate consortiums. Like FSG, John W Henry has around 3 billion net worth, but FSG is owned by multiple people like Lebron James and combined they dont have to take money out of the club and they invest in squad, invest in Anfield and build new training complex. UFC is owned by Endeavor, which has many actors and lots of people behind it. But if Man Utd would come to market there would be lots of bidders. guaranteed. Man Utd is still the leading club in the world. Plus banks and businesspeople always look how did they do on lowperiods, like how did they do during the financial crisis, how are they handling the covid. Nobody wants to sell low, but if we as fans continue bashing sponsors, having protests and Glazers dont see the end, they will sell. Bad thing for us is that Glazers have seen now 3 times how we protest and then we stop. 2005 Glazers had to run away in a police bus with police escort, after a while protests stopped, 2010 was one of the craziest protesting and we stopped after a while, and then 2020 January when Ed's house accidentally caught fire, they bought Bruno and we stopped.
The key is the US/NFL Green Bay Packer model.I can honestly say that i don't have that kind of cash
But lets be honest, you are right. If we are only talking about USA, then there are probably 120-150 people who have at least 4 Billion dollars as net worth. BUT we would get another Glazers if they would buy. People who would buy United they would have to have upwards of 8-10 Billion net worth. In US around 40-50 people have more than 8 billion. In the whole world there are 300 people who have more than 8 billion net worth. If we are talking about the kind of wealth prince Mansour has, then 80 people in the world have more money than that guy has. But we dont need cash injections. We as a community, as a club, don't need a billionaire owner. Man Utd has paid 31% of our turnover in the last 15 years to business related to Glazers (interest, loans, payments, dividends etc). Do you understand what we could have done with 2 billion pounds? Prince Mansour has put something like 1 Billion of his own money into Man City. We would have spent 2 billion on infrastructure, our youth everything. Do you understand what we could have been all those years? Instead Glazers just paid nearly 1 Billion to banks. Just as interest. Basically Glazers took out Quick Cash Loan and they still are paying it off. Loan is still around 500 mil. That is how bad businessmen they are
The supporters own shares in the club up to 51%. Then the other owner would be a rich/maybe foreign owner (doesn't matter) who makes some money and has prestige.
In theory, Daneil Ek and the arsenal supporters could implement this model.
Or you could have 51% supporter owned and then the other 49% is split up between the Norway Oil Fund, Denmark, Sweden, maybe a middle eastern country and a British owner.
yes. Like a consortium of Conor McGregor, Lebron James, Pitbull, Norway Oil Fund could easily by United.Okay, i agree with buying United, they did well. But still, just think that their net worth, which means that their whole net worth today is around 4,7 billion. Out of which Utd and Tampa are 3,1 and 1,5 billion. When those guys sell Utd they will just burn that cash.
Like when Avram sold some of his shares about a year ago and the reason was his mansion refurbishment. Bi*ch you didnt have money to paint your mansion? Then what the f are u doing with a mansion anyway?
That is why i think they will eventually sell. When i gave those numbers who could sell, i didnt calculate consortiums. Like FSG, John W Henry has around 3 billion net worth, but FSG is owned by multiple people like Lebron James and combined they dont have to take money out of the club and they invest in squad, invest in Anfield and build new training complex. UFC is owned by Endeavor, which has many actors and lots of people behind it. But if Man Utd would come to market there would be lots of bidders. guaranteed. Man Utd is still the leading club in the world. Plus banks and businesspeople always look how did they do on lowperiods, like how did they do during the financial crisis, how are they handling the covid. Nobody wants to sell low, but if we as fans continue bashing sponsors, having protests and Glazers dont see the end, they will sell. Bad thing for us is that Glazers have seen now 3 times how we protest and then we stop. 2005 Glazers had to run away in a police bus with police escort, after a while protests stopped, 2010 was one of the craziest protesting and we stopped after a while, and then 2020 January when Ed's house accidentally caught fire, they bought Bruno and we stopped.
And the UK Gov't should also force the Glazer's to sell at a certain price given their treachery to British and European football.
Let's not forget they tried to stage a coup d'état to destroy football and British and European culture with their 25 year deal/contract.
The irony being that arguments over which of our favourite fictional billionaires we most want to buy the club, it kind of moves the agenda and focus away from holding the Glazers feet to the fire on stadium investment and fan engagement
I was against them but come on
Max improvement they can have over expenditure is only £20m a season, though, if they stopped dividends. Financials aren't really going to make much difference. It will either take another loan to fix up Old Trafford, or cutting back on player expenditure, or both.
We are still without a training kit sponsor. Why is that?
United have probably never been more attractive to sponsors now.
Bet that MyProtein are kicking themselves now..
All part of the plan. Joel is a genius.
Do Aon still sponsor the training ground though?
Woodward is slacking now that he's on gardening leave.
Nope it was an all in together deal… I reckon the next deal will be just the training kits and we can go back to calling it Carrington as we all did anyway.
Any idea who the next sponsor will be?
Oh great, now we’re going to be another club funded by gas.