I'm expecting another game like the one at Leicester in Van Gaal's first season in which we scored 3 goals but conceded 5. I'm genuinely not sure whether Evans and Blackett are any worse than what we have now.
Bailly and Lindelof
- Thread starter Adisa
- Start date
This will be quite daunting to watch. Neither good in the air, neither a leader. It's so important that Maguire is this machine who plays all the time. We clearly need another top centre half. I wouldn't be surprised to see Matic dusted down for most of our remaining matches to screen the defense and hold their hands for the set piece defending.
I like Lindelof individually, he's been much better this season than I expected, though I still think a side aiming to win major honours has Lindelof (or his level) as third choice. Bailly, who became world class in his absence (Caf tendency) is - outside of his wretched injury record - a bag of pros and cons, rash, reckless, brave, loves to defend but not great in the air. Fourth choice at best IMV.
Would be beyond surprised if there isn't calamity at the back. Will happily eat my words if they step up.
I like Lindelof individually, he's been much better this season than I expected, though I still think a side aiming to win major honours has Lindelof (or his level) as third choice. Bailly, who became world class in his absence (Caf tendency) is - outside of his wretched injury record - a bag of pros and cons, rash, reckless, brave, loves to defend but not great in the air. Fourth choice at best IMV.
Would be beyond surprised if there isn't calamity at the back. Will happily eat my words if they step up.
Is Maguire confirmed to be missing the final? 
Is it perhaps time to test what Tuanzebe's made of? Bailly and Lindelof together scare me based on past experience.
They'll NEVER be a good partnership together.
A new starting CB is absolutely needed our defence without Maguire is tatters
A new starting CB is absolutely needed our defence without Maguire is tatters
Lindelof is a pussy who needs his hand held.
As someone said after Roma, Lindelöf is the one holding it all together apparently or something like that 
I don't get why Lindelof has moved to the left. Bailly is coming in so play him on the right. Lindelof is a significantly better passer, but we lose that part of his game completely when he's on the left. It's bizarre.
Wait what? I thought he'd be out for a game or two.Is Maguire confirmed to be missing the final?
It’s funny criticising our CB’s, the scousers CB’s have barely been in the game (og aside), problems are elsewhere imo.
Standard for when these 2 play together.
Nah we've had countless chances to punish that defence but lack of quality from Pogba and Rashford has let us down over and over again. Their defence is as shaky as ours
Let's use this Maguire injury as an opportunity to really assess where CB Is and should be on our priority list
Agree . Put Bailly in for Maguire there is no need to be switching sides.
Bailly should've been shown the door in summer, not a nice, new bumper contract. We're still making piss poor decisions we were making 4-5 years ago behind the scenes.
So happy Bailly got a new contract. Exactly what we need.
This team ain’t challenging next year vs Pep, Tuchel and Klopp.
Villarreal are favourites if these two start
Should be Axel and Lindelof, I don't really get why Bailly starts personally. Rather bed Axel in.
Depends how brave they are on the night but yes they have forwards who can score if given a decent chance.
People underrate a talker and organiser at the back in the modern game, the two who started tonight are as far away from having any leadership skills as you can get for a CB combination. Maguire is that for any other flaws he has.
I think Axel will start next two and can see him coming in for the final given he played really well v PSG after hardly playing in a year.
Our six league defeats this season:
Crystal Palace - TFM started over AWB
Tottenham - Bailly started over Lindelof
Arsenal - normal back 4 (lost to a penalty)
Sheffield United - Tuanzebe and Telles over Lindelof and Shaw
Leicester - Whole second choice back 4
Liverpool - Bailly over Maguire
Clearly shows that our best back 4 is fine. Our replacements are not. Bailly is levels below Lindelof, there’s a reason why hes always making last ditch tackles because his reading of the game isn’t good enough.
Crystal Palace - TFM started over AWB
Tottenham - Bailly started over Lindelof
Arsenal - normal back 4 (lost to a penalty)
Sheffield United - Tuanzebe and Telles over Lindelof and Shaw
Leicester - Whole second choice back 4
Liverpool - Bailly over Maguire
Clearly shows that our best back 4 is fine. Our replacements are not. Bailly is levels below Lindelof, there’s a reason why hes always making last ditch tackles because his reading of the game isn’t good enough.
Bailly and Lindelof as a center back partnership in the PL this season*: 2.12 points per game
Lindelof and Maguire: 1.94
Bailly and Maguire: 2.25
This isn't a coincidence either - Bailly has been here for five seasons, had a whole bunch of different partners, and results have been better with him in the team than without each of those five seasons. The problem isn't that he's "levels below" Lindelof (he's miles better at most things and, at worst, equally bad in the air - Lindelof empirically costs more points by being a lightweight than Bailly does by being out of position), it's that he's made of glass.
Bring in a center back with Bailly's attributes capable of staying fit, stick him next to Maguire, and watch the whole team go up a level.
(other interesting stat: this was Henderson's first PL loss for United in 12 appearances, after picking up 29 points in the first 11. Looking forward to seeing him over a full season)
*typo, that's over their careers at United instead of this season, as I addressed in the next post.
Lindelof and Maguire: 1.94
Bailly and Maguire: 2.25
This isn't a coincidence either - Bailly has been here for five seasons, had a whole bunch of different partners, and results have been better with him in the team than without each of those five seasons. The problem isn't that he's "levels below" Lindelof (he's miles better at most things and, at worst, equally bad in the air - Lindelof empirically costs more points by being a lightweight than Bailly does by being out of position), it's that he's made of glass.
Bring in a center back with Bailly's attributes capable of staying fit, stick him next to Maguire, and watch the whole team go up a level.
(other interesting stat: this was Henderson's first PL loss for United in 12 appearances, after picking up 29 points in the first 11. Looking forward to seeing him over a full season)
*typo, that's over their careers at United instead of this season, as I addressed in the next post.
Last edited:
It didn't take long to see this is not working.
Best case scenario, Tuanzebe will take Bailly's spot until Maguire is fit again, Bailly will re-evaluate everything again, ask for a transfer and we get a new centre back. I thought we had an open goal when Bailly was asking to leave. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised to see us turn down the immaculate chance to cash in on Jesse who's done great at West Ham, only to extend his deal and him losing his mojo as a square-peg, round-hole squad player.
I'm not saying tonight was just on them, by the way, but they are an absolutely dreadful pairing.
Best case scenario, Tuanzebe will take Bailly's spot until Maguire is fit again, Bailly will re-evaluate everything again, ask for a transfer and we get a new centre back. I thought we had an open goal when Bailly was asking to leave. At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised to see us turn down the immaculate chance to cash in on Jesse who's done great at West Ham, only to extend his deal and him losing his mojo as a square-peg, round-hole squad player.
I'm not saying tonight was just on them, by the way, but they are an absolutely dreadful pairing.
Well we can certainly see why it's two years since they have played together
Bailly's started 6 games next to Maguire, that's not a big enough sample size to draw any kind of conclusion.
Why'd we give Bailly a new contract again?
The next experiment should be tuanzanbe + lindelof?
I Watched them two play yesterday for us as a pair and i can say this with a clear mind, if this is our CB paring againt Villarreal we'll conceed goals that might cost us the game. Now having said that it's obvious Harry Maguire is the best Central back we've got since Rio and Vidic we need to sign a partner for him next season or we are smokes.
Correct, but that's why I added the bit about Bailly's other four seasons - United's best center back partnerships under Mourinho were him with Rojo and Jones in 16/17 and 17/18 respectively. He's shown in the past that he's a good defender.
Lindelof, on the other hand, has been babysat by Maguire to vaguely competent levels for the last two seasons but has spent the rest of his time here looking atrocious (most frequently next to Smalling) and having that one stormer next to Tuanzebe in Paris. I'm not having that he's better than Bailly, at least not "several levels" like that guy above me was saying. Bailly is not only a better player but a better partner for United's best center-back.
(And that was a typo when I said "this season" in the last post - those numbers are across their careers in the Prem.)
Okay, if you add last season, that's a whole extra start for Bailly next to Maguire (and Shaw in a back three.) So that's 7 starts in total over 74 league games. So it turns out that the sample size is even smaller than what you mistakenly indicated, and therefore is even less useful. And our best CB pairing under Mou was arguably Smalling-Jones in 17-18.
Lindelöf isn't brilliant, but he definitely isn't being babysat by Maguire. Most agree that he finally found his feet against Juventus in the 2018-19 season, and for the rest of that season he played next to a rotating cast of CBs and generally looked solid.
Bailly injury record means he's worse by default. If he's only fit enough to play 10 games per year, he's marginally more useful than Phil Jones. He might have more athleticism than Lindelöf, but he's also more sloppy, more reckless, deals poorly with pressure and several times more likely to feck up.
Absolute rubbish. Have some fecking faith!
Jones and Bailly started that season with 6 clean sheets and 19 points in 7 games.
And then Bailly got injured, as he always does, which was my point. I said a fit player with Bailly's attributes would be much better for this team than Lindelof, not Bailly himself.
And United let in goals by the truckload that season, more than any season in PL history from what I remember. Not too solid.
Like my left ice skate and my right ice skate. Skeaky. Dodgy. Any cnut would rip right through me.
Bailly always plays on the right. I'm not 100% certain but I think even Smalling moved over to the left for him.
You try holding Bailly together thenAs someone said after Roma, Lindelöf is the one holding it all together apparently or something like that
Our first back-4 is good. Lindelof-Maguire have conceded less than 1 goal per game which is totally fine.
Not sure where you get your stats from. Bailly has started 9 PL matches.
4 wins
2 draws
3 losses
That’s 14 points in 9 matches = 1.56 points per game.
2 of those losses were without Maguire so 2.0 with Maguire.
Lindelof -Maguire we have played 27 PL matches.
17 wins
8 draws
2 losses
That’s 59 points =2.19 points per game
Baillys weaknesses is that he can’t function together with others in a defence. He makes random moves, shifts positions for no reason etc. On top of that he switches off from time to time and become totally passive. He is one man show. If he has a good day it works well against smaller teams but that’s about it.
I think the Bailly praise comes from the formula Maguire=Slow=Needs Pacy partner=Bailly.
Wouldnt we love to have spent the 60 odd million we paid for Bailly and Lindelof on just one, good, injury free defender. They are dumb and dumber playing together
As Inwrote I’m totally happy with Lindelof- Maguire as starters. Of course there are better defenders but it’s a partnership that works and has conceded few goals together. I think that we need one reliable CB. Doesn’t need to be starting xi, could be 3rd choice but it should imo be someone who isn’t injured all the time, who has the basics, and has played a few seasons PL so we know he works in the PL. He must be able to replace Maguire as well, what if he has on and off problems with his foot now?
Pep played a back 4 yesterday with 3 of the defenders he bought himself for 41+50+60
£ Mill. They played like clowns. It’s not so easy to just buy defenders even if you pay the big money.
Lindelof and Bailly is the new Smalling and Jones
Its never worked and will never work. I remember Jose trying it out at the start of 18/19 and it's as bad then as it is now. You've got a wildcard next to a guy who needs his hand held, its a recipe for disaster. If we had to play that pairing for a long stretch of the season we'd be fighting for an EL place.
I'm not a fan of Lindelof but can tolerate at RCB alongside Maguire but as a LCB he's been a disaster everytime I've seen him there. Bailly is what he is, been here 5 years and its an ongoing pattern. He ranges from superb, ridiculous to injured with the latter being the dominant position.
I'm not a fan of Lindelof but can tolerate at RCB alongside Maguire but as a LCB he's been a disaster everytime I've seen him there. Bailly is what he is, been here 5 years and its an ongoing pattern. He ranges from superb, ridiculous to injured with the latter being the dominant position.