Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Fewer Tweets, More Discussion

Mihajlovic

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This is it plus Sisi generally has / wants to normalise relations with Israel in the same way UAE, Morocco, etc have.

I'll also add that the Rafah crossing was open earlier this year/back end of last year but was closed again due to Covid.

Personally, I think it's shameful that there's an Egyptian led block. They're projecting the Palestine flag onto the Pyramids of Giza, whilst keeping the people of Gaza penned in. It's pathetic performative moralising without any substance.
Is the crossing usually open for business/ movement of goods, or only civilian movement?!
 

africanspur

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This is it plus Sisi generally has / wants to normalise relations with Israel in the same way UAE, Morocco, etc have.

I'll also add that the Rafah crossing was open earlier this year/back end of last year but was closed again due to Covid.

Personally, I think it's shameful that there's an Egyptian led block. They're projecting the Palestine flag onto the Pyramids of Giza, whilst keeping the people of Gaza penned in. It's pathetic performative moralising without any substance.
Egypt normalised relations with Israel long before those countries and indeed long before any other Arab country did.

Technically Egyptians and Israelis can cross the border, though the reality is of course often more difficult than that.

Public opinion in Egypt is almost universally negative towards Israel but at the government level, they've been relatively chummy for decades.
 

The Original

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You posted what I have quoted in my first reply first. Then after I replied, I read your edited version so responded to that as well.

I've pointed out why it's shameful in that first reply. But if you haven't learned the difference between right and wrong at this stage of your life, I'm not here to teach it to you now.

No rage, you aren't worth that. Just a sense of sorrow at the idea human beings can be so morally bankrupt.

You can't hold a person's head under water until they lash out in desperation for their life, and then use the law to suggest their lashing out justified your aggression in the first place.

Israel does not allow Palestine to have military locations, just as it does not allow them to vote, or to fish, or to trade, or to move freely, or to remain in their homes, or to live in the land of their birth, free from persecution or oppression.

The second any such military facility is established it would be destroyed and unless they were as ethically corrupt as those justifying evil on this thread, any judge on the planet would see through an attempt to use such laws in the context you are suggesting.
Alright, I didn't see this one earlier.

I understand where you're coming from. The problem you have is a mix of poor comprehension and not really understanding logic given the series of false equivalences you make.

Hamas does not equal the legitimate struggle of Palestine.

Lashing out in self-defense/revolution does not justify terrorism. If you want to fight back, why attack civilians which include women and children? What have they done to deserve that? What stops hamas from attacking military targets alone? (Edit) And why must rockets be fired from densely populated civilian areas?

If that is justifiable to you, then you have a lopsided moral compass, and no right to pontificate on the issue.
 

The Corinthian

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Is the crossing usually open for business/ movement of goods, or only civilian movement?!
Usually civilians with foreign passports in Gaza are allowed to move, and those with critical illnesses (cancer patients etc) that require medical help.

Edit: There's a separate crossing for business / movement of goods.
 
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Dumbstar

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Archeological reasons as far as I know.
Hi, sorry it's been a day since I asked and I was wondering if you managed to watsapp, tweet, text any of your higher up mates as to the 'exact' archaeological reason they are digging? And do they have permission from the Muslims? (That's a rhetorical question, don't try to get an answer to that)

I really want to know what it is Israel thinks it has found or is looking for. Dinosaur bones? Old cutlery? What is it?

I will ask again tomorrow if you're still finding out.
 

Zlatattack

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They are considered a terrorist group by the US, EU, Japan, Canada, as well as their military wing by the UK, Australia, NZ and a few others. The UN General Assembly do not, but then again the UN means little if the US and the security council in general aren't in agreement over UN actions.
Hamas are a terrorist group and virurently anti-semitic.

Whether the UN classifies them as one means jack shit considering the joke they are.

Can't believe you post this and tell him to stop spreading lies.
:lol:

No, they are just a bunch of hippies who explode in busses killing innocent civilians, and murdering Jewish women and children. Of course they are not terrorists, they only execute Jewish children and women in their sleep and target their missiles into urban civilian population. Oh and their condition to lay their arms is a total annihilation and death of the state of Israel and the Jews within it. Not terrorist, just a bunch of freedom fighters, right?
Your information is out of date. Look at the links I posted. Hamas have clearly stated they accept the two state solution, they have stated they won't be targeting jews. The UN designation does matter. The USA, Western European government and the Anglosphere are unduly influenced by Zionist allies - maybe it finds it roots in the guilt of what Europe did to Jews for centuries, idk. The rest of the world doesn't carry that shame or guilt, hence is unbiased.
 

The Corinthian

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Egypt normalised relations with Israel long before those countries and indeed long before any other Arab country did.

Technically Egyptians and Israelis can cross the border, though the reality is of course often more difficult than that.

Public opinion in Egypt is almost universally negative towards Israel but at the government level, they've been relatively chummy for decades.
The peace treaty was signed much earlier, agreed, but what you're now seeing in UAE (in particular) is actively promoting & normalising relations with Israel in terms of tourism, investment, JVs, and business endeavours. I think this is what Sisi wants eventually.

Although, granted, this is much easier to achieve in a place like Dubai / UAE than it would be Egypt.
 

oates

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You can't hold a person's head under water until they lash out in desperation for their life, and then use the law to suggest their lashing out justified your aggression in the first place.
Yes, I think this is probably one of the best sentences here.

Alright, I didn't see this one earlier.

I understand where you're coming from. The problem you have is a mix of poor comprehension and not really understanding logic given the series of false equivalences you make.

Hamas does not equal the legitimate struggle of Palestine.

Lashing out in self-defense/revolution does not justify terrorism. If you want to fight back, why attack civilians which include women and children? What have they done to deserve that? What stops hamas from attacking military targets alone? (Edit) And why must rockets be fired from densely populated civilian areas?

If that is justifiable to you, then you have a lopsided moral compass, and no right to pontificate on the issue.
What a complete horrocks of a post.
 

diarm

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Alright, I didn't see this one earlier.

I understand where you're coming from. The problem you have is a mix of poor comprehension and not really understanding logic given the series of false equivalences you make.

Hamas does not equal the legitimate struggle of Palestine.

Lashing out in self-defense/revolution does not justify terrorism. If you want to fight back, why attack civilians which include women and children? What have they done to deserve that? What stops hamas from attacking military targets alone? (Edit) And why must rockets be fired from densely populated civilian areas?

If that is justifiable to you, then you have a lopsided moral compass, and no right to pontificate on the issue.
I'm satisfied that my comprehension, logic and moral compass will see me on the right side of this issue when history looks back at what was right and what was wrong.

One tip before I go - when you're trying to appear clever on the internet, a touch less use of the thesaurus goes a long way.
 

Sultan

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"Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, told Newsday that many Israelis supported the heavy bombardment, which followed Palestinian rocket attacks on southern Israel, because they were not fully aware of the levels of death and destruction in Gaza.

“None of the Israelis saw the real pictures from Gaza because the media here prevent them from seeing it. Therefore there is such a consensus about this war and everyone supports it.”

BBC
 

Gehrman

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Your information is out of date. Look at the links I posted. Hamas have clearly stated they accept the two state solution, they have stated they won't be targeting jews. The UN designation does matter. The USA, Western European government and the Anglosphere are unduly influenced by Zionist allies - maybe it finds it roots in the guilt of what Europe did to Jews for centuries, idk. The rest of the world doesn't carry that shame or guilt, hence is unbiased.
You completely failed to read your own article. Read it again. The new hamas charter does not accept a 2 state solution. If the KKK changed their pr a strategy a bit and minded their language a bit anyone not born before yesterday would still know they are a racist organisation. In a simular vein Hamas is still a vile anti-semitic terrorist group.
 

TheReligion

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Why doesn't Israel allow a Palestinian State and invest some money into the region so it can become self sufficient? I appreciate they are fearful of it becoming a hotbed for terrorism but surely something needs to change. Investment in the region would help heal some of the wounds I would imagine.

I don't know lots about it but this stalemate needs someone somewhere to take a risk that doesn't involve violence?
 

The Corinthian

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You completely failed to read your own article. Read it again. The new hamas charter does not accept a 2 state solution. If the KKK changed their pr a strategy a bit and minded their language a bit anyone not born before yesterday would still know they are a racist organisation. In a simular vein Hamas is still a vile anti-semitic terrorist group.
What are your thoughts on the Zionist agenda?
 

The Corinthian

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As defined by whom? Otherwise atm i have none.
Ok, the reason I ask is because if you believe that Hamas is a racist organisation, then by equal measure you would believe that the pro-Zionist agenda is also racist. Therein, any organisations that are affiliated with pro-Zionism are also racist.

For example, the current ruling political party Likud, took its roots from Herut (a previous incarnation of the party), which itself was formed from the remnants of Irgun, a paramilitary racist pro-Zionist militia...who themselves were an offshoot of a larger racist paramilitary called Haganah who were...well you can guess.

Herut itself (the predecessor to Likud) have been described as a fascist, terrorist organisation in most circles. Bear in mind all of these groups I mention are explicitly Zionist.
 

rotherham_red

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Yes, of course it wouldn't happen if they tried to live peacefully side by side. But there has in the past been wars to wipe Israel of the map. Which is why I don't doubt it would happen if Israel didn't have the military capacity that they do.
As opposed to Israel's creation which literally wiped Palestine off the map...?
 

Gehrman

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Ok, the reason I ask is because if you believe that Hamas is a racist organisation, then by equal measure you would believe that the pro-Zionist agenda is also racist. Therein, any organisations that are affiliated with pro-Zionism are also racist.

For example, the current ruling political party Likud, took its roots from Herut (a previous incarnation of the party), which itself was formed from the remnants of Irgun, a paramilitary racist pro-Zionist militia...who themselves were an offshoot of a larger racist paramilitary called Haganah who were...well you can guess.

Herut itself (the predecessor to Likud) have been described as a fascist, terrorist organisation in most circles. Bear in mind all of these groups I mention are explicitly Zionist.
I wouldnt disagree with what you've said.
 

rotherham_red

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So stating that Hamas should conduct it's warfare in compliance with international humanitarian law is shameful. Got it.

Now, listen. I don't owe you any moral duty to conform with your uneducated, pontificating rage. I happen to have training in international law, and what I said is a fact. Dont be stupid!
If you had training in international law, wouldn't you have known that as the occupier, Israel has the duty to comply? Especially since Hamas isn't the recognised government of Palestine?
 

Roane

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You completely failed to read your own article. Read it again. The new hamas charter does not accept a 2 state solution. If the KKK changed their pr a strategy a bit and minded their language a bit anyone not born before yesterday would still know they are a racist organisation. In a simular vein Hamas is still a vile anti-semitic terrorist group.
I've no love for Hamas and I'm Muslim. My stance against Hamas goes back to the Muslim Brotherhood days, but that's another story.

What I do believe, albeit my stance, is that Hamas is more considered than people who defend Israel, no matter what, believe. I don't just mean because they aren't stooges like Abbas and Fatah and the fact they provide healthcare and services to the poorest in the territories.

Hamas were opposed to the Oslo accords, for example, they still did take a wait and see approach because the general feeling amongst Palestinians was that this maybe a sign of a much wanted peace and I do believe Hamas, to a degree, follow the people's desires. I also believe the acceptance of the 1967 borders is in line with the wishes of the people.

Now some may disagree and that's fine but why not start the talks and include them and see what happens? How can we be so absolute in what they may or may not do with regards to a 2 state solution?
 

shamans

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I would say Israel definitely uses state terror. However if the power imbalance was inverted I highly doubt that there would be any Israeli jews left in the region.
Oh you mean like the previous thousand years when Jews were a minority and living as one of the best respected minorities in the world?

Either way there would be no Hamas if there wasn't blatant child murdering going on.
 

Raven

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Can we stop talking about fecking Hamas? They're an extremist organisation born out of despair. The more bombs that fall on innocents, hospitals and homes, the more members of Hamas there will be. I'm also not convinced they're attacking anything or anyone specifically, they're making home made rockets and firing them into Israel, they don't have B52s or or F16s and can't demolish buildings with sugical accuracy.

I feel like we could genuinely be on the road to death camps and mass extermination, i realise that might sound a little hysterical but I don't ever remember feeling this angry, sad and hopeless as I have over the last few days.
 

lefty_jakobz

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Oh you mean like the previous thousand years when Jews were a minority and living as one of the best respected minorities in the world?

Either way there would be no Hamas if there wasn't blatant child murdering going on.
israel have killed more Palestinians in the last 48 hours than hamas have in the last 10 years
 

africanspur

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Oh you mean like the previous thousand years when Jews were a minority and living as one of the best respected minorities in the world?

Either way there would be no Hamas if there wasn't blatant child murdering going on.
One of the best respected minorities in the world? What does that even mean?
 

The Original

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If you had training in international law, wouldn't you have known that as the occupier, Israel has the duty to comply? Especially since Hamas isn't the recognised government of Palestine?
Criticizing Hamas does not mean excusing or absolving Israel. The duty to comply goes both ways and in fact, the ICC is looking into war crimes on both sides (for previous incidents). There are rules of war that all parties to a conflict must obey.
 

shamans

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One of the best respected minorities in the world? What does that even mean?
When Jews were minorities in these same muslim lands they existed happily, compared to the norms of that time if you consider other minorities throughout the world. For thousands of years they existed so for @Shamana to suggest they'd be wiped out and not a single jew was left is inaccurate but not surprising given his usual complete lack of scholarly knowledge.
 

rotherham_red

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I would say Israel definitely uses state terror. However if the power imbalance was inverted I highly doubt that there would be any Israeli jews left in the region.
Where do you think the Jews of the Middle East were living, and among whom, during the previous millennia? When the Jews of Europe were fleeing pogroms in Central and Eastern Europe during and after that period of Enlightenment that every European liberal seems to have an intellectual wank over, where did they go to?
 

Roane

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Can we stop talking about fecking Hamas? They're an extremist organisation born out of despair. The more bombs that fall on innocents, hospitals and homes, the more members of Hamas there will be. I'm also not convinced they're attacking anything or anyone specifically, they're making home made rockets and firing them into Israel, they don't have B52s or or F16s and can't demolish buildings with sugical accuracy.

I feel like we could genuinely be on the road to death camps and mass extermination, i realise that might sound a little hysterical but I don't ever remember feeling this angry, sad and hopeless as I have over the last few days.
Hamas wouldn't be in certain conversations in the current case if they weren't a convenient excuse for Israel to commit their crimes against the Palestinians.

Also the problem is not talking with Hamas. As I said bring them around the table and put it on them.
 

The Corinthian

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I would say Israel definitely uses state terror. However if the power imbalance was inverted I highly doubt that there would be any Israeli jews left in the region.
This is just ignorant bullshit to be honest. Can you point to any time in history where Jews have been eradicated en masse at the hands of Muslims simply for being Jews?
 

shamans

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Criticizing Hamas does not mean excusing or absolving Israel. The duty to comply goes both ways and in fact, the ICC is looking into war crimes on both sides (for previous incidents). There are rules of war that all parties to a conflict must obey.
Are you recognizing both sites as sovereign states? Because I don't see that being practiced. In either case, Hamas is labelled a terrorist org. Israel is not accountable for anything. Israel has killed more women and children in a day than Hamas have in what 20 years.