I don't care if De Gea would have felt that it was a Krul move. As it is, he is suffering all the more now.
Decision to not bring in Dean Henderson
- Thread starter Ayush_reddevil
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De Gea had the worst record of saving penalties anyway, I don’t think anyone would blame the decision even if we lost with Henderson.
I largely agree DDG has always been poor at penos. So bad Henderson could not possibly be worse, with the advantage of the oppo not being familiar with him and knowing they just need to hit the target.
All that said, anyone have any data on Henderson's record?
All that said, anyone have any data on Henderson's record?
One saved 6 penalty last year (that’s what I heard), the other failed to save even a single penalty over past 5 years, I don’t think it’s even a question.
This. It's a nothing argument.
I don't think so. De Gea's inability to save penalties is widely known around here. I get why he didn't do it though. @Brwned has it spot on. Ole makes decisions based around his man management.
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I agree that Ole should have been advised to switch keepers looking at the dismal record of De Gea on penalties. We look like absolute idiots not to look at the save % when one keeper has 0 or thereabouts and another keeper has a lot better.
The only thing was this was not the worst decision of the game by Ole. He screwed us in the initial 90 minutes and paved the way to fail on lotteries.
The only thing was this was not the worst decision of the game by Ole. He screwed us in the initial 90 minutes and paved the way to fail on lotteries.
The same reason greenwood got taken off before rashford is the same reason he didn't take off de gea. Ole is scared to ruffle feathers. When a manager puts squad harmony above football results you have to ask why. My answer and I could be wrong is he knows his job security is more tied to keeping the players n board happy as opposed to doing everything possible to win.
To be fair just because this is the majority case does not mean statistically it is the best thing to do.
Calling penalties a sheer lottery is a cowards way of just not taking responsibility for trying to improve or get that edge for them.
I understand your point about damage to relationships and trust but this is something that should be covered off before knockout games with a chat with the player. De Gea record in penalties is so so bad that it merits being brought up to the player and decisions made accordingly.
I thought it was well known De Gea was weak at pens. He isn't just below average, he's as close to bad as a top level keeper can come. In a shootout with spain he'd guess the right way and still let the shot slip beneath him. Think it was the WC and he still hadn't improved much since then. De Gea I'm sure knows this and would not have minded being subbed off.
This. Of course in hindsight it would have been better to bring on Henderson, but we should have won that game long before shotouts
Not really. Since De Gea saved a pen, Henderson had saved 6. Sure, it could have not worked, but the job of the manager is to maximize the chances of winning.
Hendo should have started. He had an iffy game against Liverpool but I have more confidence in him playing than Dave atm. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.
Ddg way bad yesterday but honestly would Henderson save all the stuff DDG did against Roma? Nobody could asume he wouldn't make a single save in 9 or 10 penalty attempts? That being said we need an upgrade to both of them. At this stage I'm more convinced that Varane and Oblak would be more useful for us than Kane (aldo he is a world class striker).
He could have, but I don't consider it a faux-pas, just because other managers have rarely done so.
Long-term, it settles any debate on wether we should keep DDG now, if I remember correctly his poor clearance is what led to the clusterf***k in midfield and the foul that preceded Villareal's goal.
His reaction to their freekick was poor, and his inability to save a single penalty of that lot seals any debate on wether we should keep him on the lofty wages he has.
Long-term, it settles any debate on wether we should keep DDG now, if I remember correctly his poor clearance is what led to the clusterf***k in midfield and the foul that preceded Villareal's goal.
His reaction to their freekick was poor, and his inability to save a single penalty of that lot seals any debate on wether we should keep him on the lofty wages he has.
Yeah fortunately Ole gave him the send off he deserved with 11 penalties conceded and personally missing our 11th which is a much better way to go out.
Have you seen De Gea's stat when it comes to penalties?
De Gea's pride would have been crushed being taken off for the penalties, but with how it ended up going, it probably would have been a massive favour to save him from that quite honestly comical display.
At the end of the day, it's Ole's job to do what's best for the club, not what's best for the player.
He fecked up.
I know it's unusual, but should have been done. Not saying Henderson is good at penalties. But we all know DDG wouldn't save a single one. Takes a lot of balls to do that though, and based on the match and the subs yesterday, Ole doesn't have it.
If you go by statistics. It would be logical to sub Henderson on for the penalties. Deano faced less penalties compared to De Gea but the stopping average percentage is much higher.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/dean-henderson/elfmeterstatistik/spieler/258919
https://www.transfermarkt.com/david-de-gea/elfmeterstatistik/spieler/59377
It did cross my mind about Henderson coming on, De Gea's weakness at penalties is a strange one. Still though, any blame on De Gea is unwarranted when the team barely mustered a shot in 120 minutes.
Also do we not get to choose the end we shoot at? Since they took the first penalty I thought we'd get to shoot at the other end.
Also do we not get to choose the end we shoot at? Since they took the first penalty I thought we'd get to shoot at the other end.
This.
forget about going to penalties. The major problems were across the 90 mins. Poor first half yet again. Conceding from a set piece yet again. Better second as usual, but why is that? First XI tiring and no changes in time from bench again.
we lost the game across the 90 minutes. You can control those variables better. Yes you can prepare for penalties all you want - but it is harder to control.
Ole total fails at game prep and management yet again.
The weirdest thing about De Gea and penalties is that for the last decade he had been arguably the best shot stopper in the world and his style is all about choosing to stay on his line and use his lightning reactions and instincts. Logically, they should be his bread and butter.
It does defy logic that he's looked hopeless at facing literal shots in the context of penalties his entire career.
Surely Ole and the people round him knew what the entire fanbase did, De Gea wasn't saving our bacon in that shootout.
I suppose the best way would have been to plan and discuss this with the keepers ahead of the game.
I doubt any fans would have even considered it had van Gaal not done it in the WC that time.
I doubt any fans would have even considered it had van Gaal not done it in the WC that time.
Agreed. To me the only way to make it work is to ask De Gea, both before the game and in those final minutes, do you want to be in there for the penalties? I assume he did that and De Gea said yes, but honestly I’m not sure why he would.
By pen 7 he’d lost all confidence, but how much confidence could he really have had to begin with? I definitely had none, I can’t imagine Ole had much either. But even in that scenario, I think it’s right to give De Gea that choice. Penalty shootouts are the chance to be the hero, if he wants that chance, he’s earned that for his years of service.
I think penalties are different to in game saves. Same as shooting penalties and converting chances. You have to practice them, as they are a bit different.
De Gea never worked on them. While Bruno or van Nistelrooy practiced them quite a bit to improve there and be as good as possible.
More reason to maximin, even if that was true.
If Henderson was 1% percent better than De Gea in a PK shootout, then you should sub him in every time.
Ole still had one sub left what did he save it for? the next final/semi final?
to a degree they are! Prep all you want, but it comes down to an individual.
Fact is, and my point to begin with, was we lost the game across the 90 minutes. Same mistakes every game not addressed for set pieces and Oles substitution antics. It’s a joke, coached and managed awful.
No, everyone knew going into this that DDG can't save a pen to save his life. Villarreal players knew it better than anyone else.
In a penalty shootout the keeper isn't often blamed for the loss. This was actually one of the few times you could do that as you always felt that the Villareal players would score. DDG wasn't even close to saving a penalty (and was the only player who failed to score).
why worry about that sub when he’s done a shitload wrong across the entire game? He could have brought Hendo on - but he made a balls of the 90 minutes as per rest of my posts
Plus the damage to morale of at least De Gea, and maybe any pals seeing him as harshly treated.
Tough calls at the top.
2 were in the final minutes for pens and the other 3 were injury enforced after 100 minutes of play.
He got a hand on a couple didn't he?
Their keeper did worse, letting Shaw and a couple of others sneak in.
He only saved a fellow keeper's pen and let 10 in himself.
His point was that we still had another sub available.
Oh I thought he was arguing ole used his bench well