Villarreal 1:1 Manchester United

Maybe it's been discussed before, but upon watchning it appeared as Bruno won the second toin-coss and that he chose that Villarreal would go first. If this is true then it is completely unbelievable that he, or someone at the club doen't know better. Anyone know if that is what actually happened?

Lever said:

Maybe it's been discussed before, but upon watchning it appeared as Bruno won the second toin-coss and that he chose that Villarreal would go first. If this is true then it is completely unbelievable that he, or someone at the club doen't know better. Anyone know if that is what actually happened?

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I thought the same thing but assume it can't be what happened. We either chose to go second or chose to shoot at their end? Either is stupid so I assume we had no choice in it or something, or we're just complete idiots.

Woziak said:

Here’s the thing, our Owners are currently so hated, they either sell or they get serious and spend big in which case they will expect trophies.
If they sell, who ever comes In will get rid ASAP of Ole as his CV simple states that he shouldn’t have the job in the first place so what do we do we wait for the inevitable and come Christmas next season we are 5th to 6th and he’s about to be sacked playing this we may not qualify for CL and the cycle repeats, no Conte is available and he’s won 5 domestic titles including the PL, we sack ole now snd go get him, I’m not an advocate for Poch or Zidane but he’s another who won domestic and champions leagues go get the best available end of or 8 years becomes 10 becomes 15! Ideally we need the Glaziers to sell ASAP !

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who’s got 4 million of disposable cash that wants a football club? It ain’t happening, we have to get our head around the fact

We simply didn't turn up, like all the other cup exits this season. It's one thing to go out fighting, but we went out sad again.

It's hard not to agree with every word of Jonathan Liew in The Guardian... it's pretty much what I've been saying for two years. all this waffle about progress and Ole knowing the DNA of the club and "sorting out the mess" is spin and PR:

"Manchester United remain trapped in a sort of suspended reality, a team of big moments who weirdly never seem to win the big moments, a club in eternal transition, convinced that this is the group, these are the players, this is the coach, but that next year is always the year."

Without changes, we will be saying the same thing this time in 2022

Bruno was poor, Pogba was poor and Rashford was awful, I was willing Ole to bring him off at halftime, I knew that wouldn’t happen but I didn’t think he’d wait till 80+ minutes to make a change, I was gobsmacked. Me and my bro both wanted Rashford off and Beek on pushing Pogba out to the left but even though Pogba had a poor game seeing him replaced by james was so disheartening.

When it was obvious it was going to pens I knew it would take one of their players to miss because De Gea is gash at penalties, I can’t actually remember him ever saving one...let alone scoring one.

For me Villarreal played it perfectly, yes it was shite negative football but that’s the way they knew to get a result out of us.

There has been progress this season, it isn’t a successful one but I think Ole has done well with what he has, now it’s up to the owners to give him what he needs to achieve that success and this is my worry.

One thing I remain convinced of is that VAR either chickened out right at the end or didn't bother checking: their keeper was off his line when he saved DDG's penalty

ti vu said:

If we're stuck with Europa League next season, surely it sucks. However, it's for next season. I don't see how the disapointment of losing a final would vanish this soon. Being in CL next season, doesn't guarantee a trophy. We just a lost a final, one game away from trophy.

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Well I don't take sport as seriously as some do so maybe that's why.

elmo said:

He's not a winner as a manager, otherwise following your logic, Keano and Bruce are all winners as managers as well.

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That's daft then. I am not a 'winner' in the kitchen but a 'winner' in bed?
It's a very silly American vernacular to start with.

Bruno was very worrying to be honest. He's almost too emotional to the point where it hinders him in these big games. He doesn't channel it in the best way at all.

The game made me love Cavani more and be throughly impressed with Mctominay, who didn't bloody stop, and was the only one driving us forward from deep all game.

2 man midfield said:

Yeah it’s a massive sitter, but I don’t think it would’ve counted is all I’m saying

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Yeah, in retrospect, I see the point. I never recalled Bruno being offside during the game, think I was too emotional about seeing Rashford miss, that slipped my mind buddy.

sglowrider said:

That's daft then. I am not a 'winner' in the kitchen but a 'winner' in bed?
It's a very silly American vernacular to start with.

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Thinking there’s any correlation between his ability to play and ability to manage is just as daft.

Judas said:

Bruno was very worrying to be honest. He's almost too emotional to the point where it hinders him in these big games. He doesn't channel it in the best way at all.

The game made me love Cavani more and be throughly impressed with Mctominay, who didn't bloody stop, and was the only one driving us forward from deep all game.

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He was sandwiched between two midfielders and two center backs for most of the game. They did their homework and saw how easy it is to shut us down when he’s cut off the two midfielders.

I was, and still am, absolutely fuming. Not to turn up for a European Final is inexcusable. The players who started had a week's rest, so no excuses there. But, our play was so slow and predictable, especially in the first half and extra time. Rashford was absolutely useless, how on earth wasn't he hooked at half time? Diallo with his trickery and game intelligence would have caused Villareal problems. Not bringing on Henderson for the shoot out was inexcusable, as no way was De Gea ever going to save one. Congratulations to our ten outfield players on their superb penalties.

I have been a big supporter of Solskjaer, but his failings, which have been widely publicised, once again were ruthlessly exposed. SAF wasn't the best tactician, so he overcame that by bringing in top coaches to work along side him, e.g. McLaren, Queiroz. OGS needs to do the same.

Enery got his tactics spot on and Villareal were able to play the match as they wanted to. This is where our players needed to step up the pace to make it uncomfortable for Villareal, but they failed to do so.

Also, the officials were a disgrace. TV replays showed it was a clear foul on Lindelof for their goal, but no VAR intervention. Numerous other poor decisions went against us. The cynic in me thinks it was UEFA's revenge for the failed Super League bid.

Can’t believe we bottled it!
Shout out for the following who I thought played well, Shaw, Bailly, AWB, McT, Mason & Cavani. Everyone else was trash & didn’t step up. Lindelof & Rashford were the worst.
Love him but I Just don’t think Ole has the metal to take risks, to much of a Mr Nice Guy. Dont kid yourselves if you think it’s game management, it’s not. We’ve been bailed out by individual performers time & time again. Clearly everyone could see the players were gassed out & changes needed to be made but they weren’t & the biggest mistake was not bringing on Henderson for the pens. Imagine the physiological effect it would had on the team that parked the bus.
Yesterday was a great opportunity to win silverware & we blew it. I do think we have improved but we’ve been at a stationary level for a while. As I said against wolves that it was worrying how we were falling away with the end of season performances & the failing abilities of key individuals when needed & so this game just proved it.
Are we good enough to challenge? mmm just about but at this moment in time I think in reality we’re just a decent mediocre team like the rest of the premiership top 6 besides City.

How good were their pens? Still baffled by that

Godfather said:

How good were their pens? Still baffled by that

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To be fair, you can't fault our lads either in that department. Even Fred and Lindelof put theirs away and looked totally relaxed doing it. Little Daniel James just tucking it away no bother. Ignoring the 120 minutes, gutted for those who did their bit in the shootout, but were left totally helpless by the keeper.

Judas said:

To be fair, you can't fault our lads either in that department. Even Fred and Lindelof put theirs away and looked totally relaxed doing it. Little Daniel James just tucking it away no bother. Ignoring the 120 minutes, gutted for those who did their bit in the shootout, but were left totally helpless by the keeper.

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Absolutely. I was positively surprised by our pens too. Theirs were incredible though. Shame really. Shouldn't have got to that point though.

mu4c_20le said:

It's a lazy criticism to be fair. What would you have done differently?

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I disagree.

I’m not a manager at a top club so I can’t say specifically, but thematically my main criticisms are:

1. We were inflexible. We didn’t have any kind of alternative plan. Or strategy. I would have expected some proactive adjustments to try and do things different
2. Performance tailed off. Partly due to tired players yes, but we didn’t look to refresh things.
3. Linked to above. We really need to use our substitutes better and time them better.
4. Game plan for extra time was awful. He didn’t look to go for the win, which I fundamentally disagree with.

It’s not the fact he didnt swap DDG for Henderson (I can see the logic but it’s just unrealistic to think that should be expected), or that we didn’t play well for parts (which isn’t his fault). It’s the fact that he didnt proactively try and address it. It’s the attitude of “well eventually this will work” rather than being bold and trying to change something. Which isn’t always the way forward but no doubt in my mind it was yesterday.

And to be clear I’m not anti-Ole or any of that. But its ignorant, whether someone supports him or not, to not recognise he needs to do better in-match. It’s a weakness at this stage. Doesn’t mean he can’t fix it, but he certainly won’t if he doesn’t realise he has to do things differently in these situations.

Had nobody anywhere mentioned that Rulli came of his line for De Gea's penalty?

Suedesi said:

Of course, anyone and their dog knows Ole should have made changes earlier to affect the game. I don't buy the bench is poor argument - when we are facing Alberto Moreno, Coquelin, Albiol, Capoue, Bacca, Paco Alcacer and a bunch of other has-been washouts.

This is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer's ceiling - Sevilla and Villareal...

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I don’t necessarily think it’s his ceiling. But he has to acknowledge it and deal with it and improve if he really wants to grow into a top manager.

Still gutted. United was supposed to have won it. Everything was handed to them on a silver platter once again and still couldn't get the job done. Villarreal didn't deserve to win. Didn't do anything other than the lucky goal.(ours was lucky as well to be fair). Can't understand what ole was thinking. It's like every decision he made was wrong and refused to correct it. Everyone had the same idea. Take off Rashford, put on James in ET. Use him to kill off the tired defenders. Instead he takes off Pogba and greenwood for Fred and Mats or someone. That didn't make any sense. Ole is doing everything he can to not win silverware.

Someone try and convince me that Rashford is world class. Hes a fraud

It's the same old story of can't break down a parked bus. We barely created any chances through the game and relied on pot luck crosses which their giant CB's gobbled up with ease.

I didn't think we played that badly, just gave them an almost trademark sloppy set piece goal and then were fighting up hill from that point. We equalised with plenty of time to go and I really thought at 1-1 we would turn the screw and get the goal we needed, but it just seemed to fade away.

Emery made the subs at the perfect time, he could see them tiring and freshened it up and it gave them a new lease of life, they were back into the game. I have no idea why Ole thought playing for pens at that stage was the right idea, i'm sure that if we matched them with 5 subs at that stage we could have won in normal time, they were there for the taking.

You have to question the staff and Ole's decision making in particular. He's far too stuck in his "my first 11 always plays" and doesn't trust his squad players at all.

Nobody can tell me the likes of Mata, Amad, James, Fred, Matic, couldn't have effected the game in a more positive manner at that stage.

Sometimes you lose and you have to hold your hands up and say they were the better team, but last night that wasnt the case. They game planned it to penalties probably knowing DDG is useless at them. All their players looked ice cold, almost like knowing if they just hit the target it'll score.

Pretzels81 said:

Emery isn't exactly a mediocre manager. 1-1 vs the King of the EL is not a failure.

Make no mistake, I'd swap Ole for Zidane tomorrow, but DDG let us all down tonight. 11 penalties...Lord.

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Sorry but this is a bullshit argument. The hero for Villarreal was the goalkeeper, who himself failed to save 10 penalties. So “didn’t save any of 11” is some kind of BS argument. Had it been the other way round, would we all be here saying the Villareal
Goalkeeper gifted us the win? Or if DDG saved kick 11, would we be calling him the hero?

We lost in the end penalties because it’s a lottery mixed with some skill. But what ultimately cost us the game was the 120 minutes prior where we really could have been aggressive and gone for the win.

Baffled that some people here say that there was next to no option to bring on from the bench. Telles/Amad/VDB could have all been brought on for Rashford who was doing next to nothing. They could not have done any worse. Matic for McTominay (my man of the match) to bring in fresh legs. I don't buy this "nothing to bring on from the bench" view at all.

This match has cemented in my mind that we no longer need Pogba (if we ever did). He was uninspiring and gave away possession needlessly. At his supposed level he should be dominating teams like Villareal and not allow himself to be overshadowed by Scott McT who presumably was given a more defensive role than Pogba but who had a greater impact.

Say what you want about Scott Mct but he has Man United fire in his belly.......something we all took for granted during Fergie's reign but something that is alarmingly missing from most of our first team players.

Cavani has shown more fire and spark than Rashford who is 10 years his junior. His closing down and energy reminds me of Mark "Thunder Thighs" Hughes who would chase down opponent defenders endlessly which in turn got the crowd up AND the rest of his teammates.

Greenwood-Shows immense promise but I worry about our coaching staff being able to fully realise his potential. Time will tell.

Rashford-Where do I begin? He cannot even get past his man but he doesn't stop trying. He effectively becomes a brick wall for other United players to bounce the ball from yet Rashford inexplicably believes himself to be Ronaldo-esque every time he gets the ball.

If football intelligence could be measured then Rashford would be stuck in Special Needs as his reading of the game is woeful and don't get me started on his sulky body language.

Fernandes-Can be squeezed out of the game and this shows that we are too reliant on him. Stop Bruno and you stop United.

Scott Mct- I know, I know. His distribution is poor a lot of the time but I love his industry. Sometimes you need a player running around like a wrecking ball just to fire up your teammates.

Pogba- I hope he has played his last game for us. We could have replaced him with any midfielder last night and we would not be worse off. You should not be saying things like that about a player who is purpotedly world class. Added to the mix is the realisation that Pogba doesn't really want to be here and is angling for his next big move

Shaw- Prone to some defensive errors but at least he has fire in his belly. Suffered a twisted ankle late on in the game but played on.

Wan Bassaka-If we're not careful he will end up being a new Antonio Valencia. Finds himself in good wide positions but reluctant to cross. I am convinced this is part of our training rather than the player making his own choices.

Bailly-Injury prone and let's be honest, a red card waiting to happen.

Lindelof-Comes across as a young weak kid who tries to make himself appear manly by sticking some tattoos on his arm and strutting about..but he's not fooling anyone. He gets outmuscles WAY too often to be a first choice defender.

De Gea-Not the red wall from previous years. The question is........is he worse than Henderson.

The alarming thing is Rashford's interview after the match where there is ZERO recognition that he had a shocking game. It's bad enough if we are sh*t but if we can't recognise we are sh*t then we are screwed.

OGS's post match interview all but confirmed that his strategy is to wait for a moment of individual brilliance from his players hence why he allowed Villareal to replenish half their time whilst keeping all our starting players on the pitch

It's just one game, in the end. You shouldn't judge players fully on it.

We didn't even play that badly. They snuffed out our attacking threats for the most part and were very disciplined tactically.

Anyone can lose a game like that. The challenge is what happens now to keep us on the up.

Scholsey2004 said:

Feck. Wrong keeper for penalties.

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Thought it was amazing that he actually came out and admitted he thought of changing the goalkeeper for the penalties. He is doing a good job at rebuilding, but he is not a good tactical manager. The coaching staff is atrocious, that is where a lot of the trouble lies. We still haven't done anything about defending set plays, we still cannot break down teams who just want to defend. To not make any subs until ET, then it made sod all difference when we did. It looked like we were trying to get to penalties.

sincher said:

It's just one game, in the end. You shouldn't judge players fully on it.

We didn't even play that badly. They snuffed out our attacking threats for the most part and were very disciplined tactically.

Anyone can lose a game like that. The challenge is what happens now to keep us on the up.

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I worry that we will bring more players in who should be the answer and they won't be, just because the coaching is awful, I think Ole is a good man manager, but he wants the comfort blanket of his mates being coaches, even though I don't think they are up to the job. When Rio even says we rely on a moment of brilliance then there are coaching problems.

Zexstream said:

We were pure rubbish, never in the game and Olle must have spent all of the extra time picking his first 5 for pentalites.

Cant blame Dave, Penalty shootouts rarely get to goalkeepers.

I blame Olle and Olle alone.


Time for a new manager, we were lucky in the end to hold on to 2nd place in the premier league.

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I don't blame DDG for missing a penalty. I do blame him for not even saving one. Unfortunately I think he is on a downward spiral.

Dobba said:

Going to be the quietest transfer forum in the Cafe's history reading this. Definitely won't be seeing calls for 4, 5 or 6 new signings judging by the posts in here.

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You can be sure that the likes of Sancho, Haarland, and Kane were watching and thought "Nah, I'll go to Chelsea, City or Liverpool."

Mockney said:

Roll on next season and the desperate hope we buy enough decent players to cover for our complete lack of tactical acumen I guess

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Think that is what he is hoping, that we eventually buy eleven world class players and have a bench of world class players so he doesn't even have to think about coaching them.

Blue on Tour said:

You can be sure that the likes of Sancho, Haarland, and Kane were watching and thought "Nah, I'll go to Chelsea, City or Liverpool."

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Nah, they're too busy playing Playstation.

Heck, for Sancho and Haaland staying put at BVB looks more attractive.

2 man midfield said:

Yeah it’s a massive sitter, but I don’t think it would’ve counted is all I’m saying

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The flag went up didn't it?

That's what the Irish commentary team said.

Imagine having 11 penalties taken against you and not getting near any of them? By the law of averages you could stand still for all of them and at least 2 would hit you.

Blue on Tour said:

You can be sure that the likes of Sancho, Haarland, and Kane were watching and thought "Nah, I'll go to Chelsea, City or Liverpool."

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Or Madrid or Barcelona, or Juventus or Bayern.

DomesticTadpole said:

I worry that we will bring more players in who should be the answer and they won't be, just because the coaching is awful, I think Ole is a good man manager, but he wants the comfort blanket of his mates being coaches, even though I don't think they are up to the job. When Rio even says we rely on a moment of brilliance then there are coaching problems.

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A lot of rubbish is talked about with coaching on here. None of us have any idea how good or bad it is.

I knew we'd lose when this started happening. Looking at you Bailly, you fecking clown