Squad depth is king

Leftback99 · May 27, 2021

Sky1981 said:
What an absurd analogy.

If Messi cost 0, he's still Leonel Messi, he plays like a 300M striker, not like an 0 striker.

So is what our bench cost relevant?

Sky1981 · May 27, 2021

Leftback99 said:
So is what our bench cost relevant?

Because the op cries about having no squad depth as the reason we lost the final.

-Supreme- · May 27, 2021

There is no use having quality squad depth when the manager doesn’t utilise it.

I defended Ole when he first joined as he always stuck to the same squad of players due as his backup were clearly not up to the standard required however he has no excuse for not playing VDB more often this season, even Amad should have come on last night.

el3mel · May 27, 2021

Too much talking about squad depth as if all teams in the world have Messi and Ronaldo on the bench.

It's quite embarrassing.

For some here in order to win trophies we need to have a squad of 22 superstars.

el3mel · May 27, 2021

FahadiHossein said:
Put on Diallo and James and sub out penalty takers. You really would trust James and Diallo and James,especially, has not shown to impact our games when we are trying to break down a stubborn defense.
You really entrust them to take the penalties. I was actually pretty relieved that James scored - I was quite sure that he would miss.

We shouldn't have even waited for the fecking pens. We should have tried to finish it in the main time considering our GK is a clown in pens.

Leftback99 · May 27, 2021

Sky1981 said:
Because the op cries about having no squad depth as the reason we lost the final.

You're missing the point. How much our bench cost is irrelevant as proved by your Messi example. Our depth is poor and our first XI is nothing special with big holes.

el3mel · May 27, 2021

Renegade said:
Fergie once threw a unknown Macheda in the dying minutes of a must win title decider. Imagine if his thought process was “I have no quality on the bench”. Emery used his squad and bench to his advantage and now has another Europa League title to his name.

With our current fans mentality, I bet they wouldn't have wanted Macheda on this night because oh what a youngster can do in a crucial game, let's play the main team for the full 90 minutes regardless, we should only use our bench when we have Messi and Ronaldo on it.

Sky1981 · May 27, 2021

Leftback99 said:
You're missing the point. How much our bench cost is irrelevant as proved by your Messi example. Our depth is poor and our first XI is nothing special with big holes.

What do you mean irrelevant?

You're crying about our squad depth is poor when villareal, the whole team that cost less tha our bench made 5 subs and still come out on top.

Yes. We have holes in RW, DM, CB but villareal too have their own holes..go ahead list their starting xi and pick who would walk into our xi?

Like i said. Excuses.

Crying about bench depth against fecking villareal is such a made up excuse. They dont even have the luxury of resting their players.

You might have a case if we cant field half our xi due to injury. We practically started most of our best xi bar maguire all fit and well rested.

RedorDead21 · May 27, 2021

It’s about motivating what you have. Making the sum of your parts greater than the individuals. Since SAF we’ve never really had that. We have some cracking individuals. The only negative I can have against Ole in terms of our squad is he bought James and VDB right....with our finances he couldn’t really afford any duds

Bwuk · May 27, 2021

kouroux said:
If you don't have that depth what are you gonna do ? Keep playing the same players until they break down ?

That's what Liverpool done and look at the injuries they had.

We have such a huge drop off from our first choice to bench players. Look at AWB. Thankfully he's remained fit all season, but who's his back up? Williams? It's a big drop off.

OrcaFat · May 27, 2021

Mainoldo said:
I have to be. This man is clearly not good enough but we keep still having debates on why we should keep him. It should be unison now. I’m talking 90/10 this guy has t go. He showed us all his cards yesterday and once again we lost when it mattered because the opposition had a better manager than us. It’s that simple.

We played much better than them, had enough chances to win a tight game but didn’t take them. Drew the game, lost the shootout 11-10 with only our goalie missing. They did not “beat” us because they had a better coach, their keeper is better at taking penalties, that’s all.

On topic, our squad is better than Villarreal but it’s not better than City’s.By your logic, City lost to us because our manager is better than theirs. But I’m sure you think your logic only applies when it suits you.

With a better squad, it stands to reason that the chance of victory improves. If you change nothing else but have one or more better players, just by those players being there your chances improve.

We will still lose some games even when we have some better players in the squad but over a long period we will improve and in any one-off game, our chance of winning that game will improve. 2nd and cup finalist can easily become 1st and cup winner.

Mr Smith · May 27, 2021

I do understand where the OP is coming from in terms of the lack of game changers we had on the bench. But you have to make use of what you've got. We had very tired legs out there which meant a game that we'd dominated swung away from us in extra time.

Ferguson’s Hairdryer · May 27, 2021

jackal&hyde said:
I believe there are 2 key points to be successful. First is an 11 that is capable of winning against anyone and we are almost there imo. with a couple of improvements to be made for quality.

The second is squad depth and this is imo the reason why we fall short at the moment (a number of semifinals, poor performance in the final). We can not do what we used to and what City and even Chelsea are doing, rotation while maintaining good standards to keep the players fresh for the critical part of the season. We are forced to play key players through injury even.

I write this because I believe is an elemental understanding of football and the usual "hipster" journalists are going to make it all about tactics and details like substitutions as if this is FM. From United's domination of the past, the 4 CL wins in 5 years from Real to the dominance of City and Bayern, tactics, "patterns of play", etc are the least relevant aspect for sustained success. Leicester, Spurs (under Poch) even Liverpool this season, and United, fall way short in the squad depth department.

TL DR: from this point on improvement will only come through buying players of good enough quality to make rotation through the season possible, else we will continue to run our best players in to the ground and come short at the end of the season.

Villarreal have better squad depth then Man Utd? They made 5 subs and improved. Sometimes excuses run fin especially when you see direct comparisons.

And actually real football is closer to FM and not Fifa 21, it’s more about tactics and timing than simply buying buying buying.

bosskeano · May 27, 2021

the signing of DvB is the one thing that puzzles me about adding depth to our midfield. If you're going to sign him for 35m, why isn't he playing? Did Ole actually want him?

Mainoldo · May 27, 2021

OrcaFat said:
We played much better than them, had enough chances to win a tight game but didn’t take them. Drew the game, lost the shootout 11-10 with only our goalie missing. They did not “beat” us because they had a better coach, their keeper is better at taking penalties, that’s all.

On topic, our squad is better than Villarreal but it’s not better than City’s.By your logic, City lost to us because our manager is better than theirs. But I’m sure you think your logic only applies when it suits you.

With a better squad, it stands to reason that the chance of victory improves. If you change nothing else but have one or more better players, just by those players being there your chances improve.

We will still lose some games even when we have some better players in the squad but over a long period we will improve and in any one-off game, our chance of winning that game will improve. 2nd and cup finalist can easily become 1st and cup winner.

For you alone I hope he gets his new 3 year deal. It’s going to be an amazing Netflix Sunderland like watch.

The best bit is when we act like we didn’t see it coming.

OrcaFat · May 27, 2021

Mainoldo said:
For you alone I hope he gets his new 3 year deal. It’s going to be an amazing Netflix Sunderland like watch.

The best bit is when we act like we didn’t see it coming.

Yeah, I know.

I can’t imagine his new contract is in any doubt. If it’s any consolation, it won’t stop them sacking him at some point.

Stacks · May 27, 2021

Bwuk said:
Squad depth is how City won the league.

With how many games are played at the moment, you can't just have a good 11. Our depth is terrible.

Not for the Europa League and a cup. Leicester and Villareal don't have deeper squads.
Shaw/Telles, AWB/Williams, Maguire/Baily, Lindelof/Jones, McTom/Matic, Pogba/Fred, Bruno/Lingard, Rashford/James Cavani/Martial, Greenword/Diallo

some of our back ups cost hundreds of millions

OrcaFat · May 27, 2021

Stacks said:
Not for the Europa League and a cup. Leicester and Villareal don't have deeper squads.
Shaw/Telles, AWB/Williams, Maguire/Baily, Lindelof/Jones, McTom/Matic, Pogba/Fred, Bruno/Lingard, Rashford/James Cavani/Martial, Greenword/Diallo

some of our back ups cost hundreds of millions

You must know that losing a couple of one off games doesn’t define a standard. We finished above Leicester and much higher up a much tougher league than Villarreal.

Our squad cost a lot but at the highest level, the quality below the first 11 is questionable. It will see us finish above Leicester but that’s not the limit of our ambition is it?

Vidyoyo · May 27, 2021

Did anybody else quickly read the title as Stephen King?

Knux · May 27, 2021

Our bench options has always been the problem this season with 61 games. The options has been slim, to say the least. Yes, we finished second in the league which is great. Especially if you compare to City’s bench (also the only team that played more games than us).

It’s clear that Ole dosen’t rate his bench at all which is a concern. We’re clearly lacking attacking options from the bench - something different. Im not saying we need the same depth as City. But a Sancho or/and Grealish would give a huge boost to the team.

Then adding a CB and we are much better and can rotate instead of running out of steam in the final part of the season.

This squad is perfectly fine to make top four and to have a go in the Europa League. But it’s not good enough for the biggest trophies, no matter who’s the manager.

Mainoldo · May 27, 2021

OrcaFat said:
Yeah, I know.

I can’t imagine his new contract is in any doubt. If it’s any consolation, it won’t stop them sacking him at some point.

It doesn’t but it sends the wrong message. Clubs set the bar by the decisions they make and it filters down. This bottlers mentality will last for another 15 years if he give him a new contract.

OrcaFat · May 27, 2021

Mainoldo said:
It doesn’t but it sends the wrong message. Clubs set the bar by the decisions they make and it filters down. This bottlers mentality will last for another 15 years if he give him a new contract.

Buckle up for the next 15 then!

FahadiHossein · May 28, 2021

el3mel said:
We shouldn't have even waited for the fecking pens. We should have tried to finish it in the main time considering our GK is a clown in pens.

I think we both agree that OGS has trust and faith in DDG. When I saw United looking knackered towards the 90th minute, United seemed more ready to call for penalties while Villarreal actually had some hope to win in ET. However, whether the trust and faith have been misplaced is something that we disagree on. When OGS played DDG after he returned in the EL, OGS was apparently telling DDG, "hey! I have faith in you in penalties!" On hindsight, he could have swapped DDG back to PL games and put Henderson back for EL games, but he didn't, so DDG would believe that he deserved to be in the EL finals since he played in the EL since the QF.

While SAF's faith in Macheda and Owen paid off, this was an example when the faith was misplaced. This mistake reminds me of when we lost to Barca in the finals with Giggs in the midfield and Park did not come into the game early enough, even Ronaldo said that a tactical mistake was committed. SAF had faith in Giggs and Carrick against the Barca midfield of Xavi and Iniesta and it did not work.

Stacks said:
Not for the Europa League and a cup. Leicester and Villareal don't have deeper squads.
Shaw/Telles, AWB/Williams, Maguire/Baily, Lindelof/Jones, McTom/Matic, Pogba/Fred, Bruno/Lingard, Rashford/James Cavani/Martial, Greenword/Diallo

some of our back ups cost hundreds of millions

The thing is that both Villarreal and Leicester both have 'deeper' squad as their sub players can still play with the usual XI when they came on. Leicester rotated Barnes and Maddison out with Kelechi and Perez coming well, and Kelechi did better than expected despite hardly playing in the first half of the season. You know if OGS did that, even Lingard wouldn't have made any impact.
This is why I fundamentally disagree with most people here that James or Diallo would have made a difference - they can't, because OGS did not integrate them in the squad at all. This and the defeat to Leciester both in the legaue and the FA Cup were mistakes 6 months in the making. James or Diallo would have kept the score at 1-1, and United would go to penalties and still lose, and James or Diallo would miss and the fans would abuse them instead.

jackal&hyde · May 28, 2021

Ferguson’s Hairdryer said:
Villarreal have better squad depth then Man Utd? They made 5 subs and improved. Sometimes excuses run fin especially when you see direct comparisons.

And actually real football is closer to FM and not Fifa 21, it’s more about tactics and timing than simply buying buying buying.

fairy tale

YNK · May 28, 2021

We have too many high earners who are not contributing enough.

We need to offload some players, they have been great servants to the club, but need to move on...
DDG
Romero
Jones
Matic
Mata
Lingard
That's already around 1m in wages...

We need to buy for 2021/2022 season:
Backup GK to Henderson - Tom Heaton
New CB - Pau Torres or Sven Botman
New DM - Rice (with Lingard swap) or Frank Kessie (with Dalot swap)
New RW - Sancho for 80m and we finally close this chapter....

We need to buy for 2022/2023 season:
New ST to replace Cavani
New LW

el3mel · May 28, 2021

FahadiHossein said:
I think we both agree that OGS has trust and faith in DDG. When I saw United looking knackered towards the 90th minute, United seemed more ready to call for penalties while Villarreal actually had some hope to win in ET. However, whether the trust and faith have been misplaced is something that we disagree on. When OGS played DDG after he returned in the EL, OGS was apparently telling DDG, "hey! I have faith in you in penalties!" On hindsight, he could have swapped DDG back to PL games and put Henderson back for EL games, but he didn't, so DDG would believe that he deserved to be in the EL finals since he played in the EL since the QF.

While SAF's faith in Macheda and Owen paid off, this was an example when the faith was misplaced. This mistake reminds me of when we lost to Barca in the finals with Giggs in the midfield and Park did not come into the game early enough, even Ronaldo said that a tactical mistake was committed. SAF had faith in Giggs and Carrick against the Barca midfield of Xavi and Iniesta and it did not work.

The thing is that both Villarreal and Leicester both have 'deeper' squad as their sub players can still play with the usual XI when they came on. Leicester rotated Barnes and Maddison out with Kelechi and Perez coming well, and Kelechi did better than expected despite hardly playing in the first half of the season. You know if OGS did that, even Lingard wouldn't have made any impact.
This is why I fundamentally disagree with most people here that James or Diallo would have made a difference - they can't, because OGS did not integrate them in the squad at all. This and the defeat to Leciester both in the legaue and the FA Cup were mistakes 6 months in the making. James or Diallo would have kept the score at 1-1, and United would go to penalties and still lose, and James or Diallo would miss and the fans would abuse them instead.

I agree on the point that Ole's integration of subs throughout the season was pretty poor and he ultimately didn't prepare them well enough. I have never been honestly been that fond of his squad management. The guy seems to trust 11-12 players at most and can't bring himself to trust any other player to do the job, to the point of playing Rashford while being injured or in shit form because he's scared of replacing him and trying someone else.

His use of his squad is pretty sub bar in my opinion.

However what happened during the season happened. We now had a final and had to win. We can't just ignore the subs at all because they weren't used well during the season. We had to do our job.

Villarreal looked much refreshed than us because they used all their 5 subs during the 90 minutes. They changed half the team, while we made only one impact sub and it was in 100th minute (Fred) with the other 4 coming just for pens in the last minutes of ET. The fact we looked completely knackered in ET while Villarreal were starting to look better was due to this. They had 5 new fresh players now playing while we kept 9 of our 11 outfield players going on and on. They were bound to get tired eventually.

Tincanalley · May 28, 2021

Let’s be clear - FA corruption in allowing Manchester Cheaty to financially dope and sportswash is at the core. Squad depth is all about wages (on paper and in fist) and background team, facilities, youth policy, plus coherent player recruitment.

The other issue is leeches in the club. Also an ownership/regulation matter. Without the first, Ole wins the 2021 league; without the second, probably we have a different manager and a different profile in Europe. And, no doubt, a whole new Glazerless set of things to moan about in here.

devilish · May 28, 2021

UNITED ACADEMY said:
How many times we have seen Ole brought on Cavani or Greenwood or Pogba or Rashford from the bench to change the game? Give him quality squad depth, he will have quality option to make change from his bench, and he will do it. Expecting ageing Mata, mediocre James, and inexperienced Diallo who is not ready, couldn’t even start in Atalanta team and still need time to replace Rashford, Greenwood, Cavani, and Bruno is ridiculous. Would he do it if he had Grealish or Sancho instead? Yes!

United is what it is. We will never have a 23 men squad made up of the likes of Grealish, Sancho and Kane. Sir Alex won his titles while relying on the likes of Phil Neville, John Oshea, Nicky Butt, Henning Berg, Antonio Valencia, Ashley Young, Cleverley and co getting regular football. He did so by properly nurturing players, giving his stars rest when needed, developing kids and relying on sound tactics. Ole is running our players to the ground. He can't even bother giving top talented players like VDB a run let alone to promising talent like Elanga and Diallo. Ole should know that better then most. Don't you think that back in the day Sir Alex would have rather wanted Batistuta or Shearer then some unknown talent from the Norwegian league? Yet that's the hand Sir Alex was handed and he made the best out of it.

Our players love Ole and that's something that should be applauded and we shouldn't underestimate. However they look tired and most of them are not playing as well as they did before (Bruno, AWB, Greenwood etc). If we insist on playing them the ridiculous amount of games we're playing then their career will be cut short. Also squad depth have nothing to do with sound coaching. Its ridiculous that we can keep on leaking goals from set pieces. What the feck are our coaching staff paid for?

jackal&hyde · May 28, 2021

Tincanalley said:
Let’s be clear - FA corruption in allowing Manchester Cheaty to financially dope and sportswash is at the core. Squad depth is all about wages (on paper and in fist) and background team, facilities, youth policy, plus coherent player recruitment.

The other issue is leeches in the club. Also an ownership/regulation matter. Without the first, Ole wins the 2021 league; without the second, probably we have a different manager and a different profile in Europe. And, no doubt, a whole new Glazerless set of things to moan about in here.

Also huge incompetence from the club over the last 8 years. Yes we spent and idiots like Souness always like to make this argument. But money doesn't play, players do. The huge wage bill is not an indication of squad quality unfortunately but of poor recruiting and leadership; many of them would not play in the top 10 PL clubs or even less and this creates or main problem imo, the quality of our depth that takes time to fix.

UNITED ACADEMY · May 28, 2021

devilish said:
United is what it is. We will never have a 23 men squad made up of the likes of Grealish, Sancho and Kane. Sir Alex won his titles while relying on the likes of Phil Neville, John Oshea, Nicky Butt, Henning Berg, Antonio Valencia, Ashley Young, Cleverley and co getting regular football. He did so by properly nurturing players, giving his stars rest when needed, developing kids and relying on sound tactics. Ole is running our players to the ground. He can't even bother giving top talented players like VDB a run let alone to promising talent like Elanga and Diallo. Ole should know that better then most. Don't you think that back in the day Sir Alex would have rather wanted Batistuta or Shearer then some unknown talent from the Norwegian league? Yet that's the hand Sir Alex was handed and he made the best out of it.

Our players love Ole and that's something that should be applauded and we shouldn't underestimate. However they look tired and most of them are not playing as well as they did before (Bruno, AWB, Greenwood etc). If we insist on playing them the ridiculous amount of games we're playing then their career will be cut short. Also squad depth have nothing to do with sound coaching. Its ridiculous that we can keep on leaking goals from set pieces. What the feck are our coaching staff paid for?

Well, he's not going to bring O'Shea, Neville, Berg to replace one or two of Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood to score goal. Ole also tends to bring on Matic or Axel to defend a lead.

Young was quality in Aston Villa mate, he was different level to what we had on the bench. That's how bad our bench options were.

jackal&hyde · May 28, 2021

devilish said:
United is what it is. We will never have a 23 men squad made up of the likes of Grealish, Sancho and Kane. Sir Alex won his titles while relying on the likes of Phil Neville, John Oshea, Nicky Butt, Henning Berg, Antonio Valencia, Ashley Young, Cleverley and co getting regular football. He did so by properly nurturing players, giving his stars rest when needed, developing kids and relying on sound tactics. Ole is running our players to the ground. He can't even bother giving top talented players like VDB a run let alone to promising talent like Elanga and Diallo. Ole should know that better then most. Don't you think that back in the day Sir Alex would have rather wanted Batistuta or Shearer then some unknown talent from the Norwegian league? Yet that's the hand Sir Alex was handed and he made the best out of it.

Our players love Ole and that's something that should be applauded and we shouldn't underestimate. However they look tired and most of them are not playing as well as they did before (Bruno, AWB, Greenwood etc). If we insist on playing them the ridiculous amount of games we're playing then their career will be cut short. Also squad depth have nothing to do with sound coaching. Its ridiculous that we can keep on leaking goals from set pieces. What the feck are our coaching staff paid for?

What the hell? Dialo has played more for Manchester United then his previous club for whom he had something like 40 min of pro football. Played in a semifinal even. Elanga is just now being introduced and even had a start. I can't tell if you are trolling.

What you are saying SAF was doing is exactly what Ole is implementing. Moving on as many dinosaurs on massive wages as possible and replacing with either youth or younger players bought that might have the potential to become first 11. Players like Williams, Tuanzebe, Amad, James, Dvb, Mctominay, Hannibal, Greenwood, Elanga, Chong are either key part of the squad, given debuts or in the process of getting used to first team football. You don't just throw young players in. Even the class of 92 had a couple of seasons of introduction before being given the responsibility of first 11 football.

devilish · May 28, 2021

UNITED ACADEMY said:
Well, he's not going to bring O'Shea, Neville, Berg to replace one or two of Bruno, Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood to score goal. Ole also tends to bring on Matic or Axel to defend a lead.

Young was quality in Aston Villa mate, he was different level to what we had on the bench. That's how bad our bench options were.

As said its very rare for a United Manager to have top quality strength in depth. I am pretty sure that Sir Alex would have used the likes of VDB, Mata, Elanga and Diallo. He'll probably drilled his defence so they are able to properly deal with set pieces as well.

Also how much new talent does United need to beat 7th place Villareal? We're talking of a team with a net spend of 7m euros (2020-2021), -26m euros (2019-2020) and 38m euros (2018-2019). Does Ole need Kane, Sancho and Grealish to beat that on top of the likes of Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford and co? I understand that PSG might be too tough to beat by Ole although Lille did achieved that in the league but is it that difficult to get 2nd place and qualify against mighty Leipzig and Istanbul Basaksehir?

devilish · May 28, 2021

jackal&hyde said:
What the hell? Dialo has played more for Manchester United then his previous club for whom he had something like 40 min of pro football. Played in a semifinal even. Elanga is just now being introduced and even had a start. I can't tell if you are trolling.

What you are saying SAF was doing is exactly what Ole is implementing. Moving on as many dinosaurs on massive wages as possible and replacing with either youth or younger players bought that might have the potential to become first 11. Players like Williams, Tuanzebe, Amad, James, Dvb, Mctominay, Hannibal, Greenwood, Elanga, Chong are either key part of the squad, given debuts or in the process of getting used to first team football. You don't just throw young players in. Even the class of 92 had a couple of seasons of introduction before being given the responsibility of first 11 football.

Sir Alex would better utilise his squad and made it work as he did with the likes of Butt, Cleverley, Phil Neville, Young and co who were hardly world class. He won the league with an anciet Scholes, and Giggs in midfield boosted by the ageing Carrick + the likes of Cleverley. I am pretty sure that he would have preferred the likes of Pogba, Bruno, VDB, Matic, Fred and McT instead.

What we might both agree is that He'll certainly wouldn't run his first team players to the ground as Ole is doing. Also I don't think that squad depth is really necessary to beat Villareal who lags behind us on everything rather then maybe management and coaching.

UNITED ACADEMY · May 28, 2021

devilish said:
As said its very rare for a United Manager to have top quality strength in depth. I am pretty sure that Sir Alex would have used the likes of VDB, Mata, Elanga and Diallo. He'll probably drilled his defence so they are able to properly deal with set pieces as well.

Also how much new talent does United need to beat 7th place Villareal? We're talking of a team with a net spend of 7m euros (2020-2021), -26m euros (2019-2020) and 38m euros (2018-2019). Does Ole need Kane, Sancho and Grealish to beat that on top of the likes of Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford and co? I understand that PSG might be too tough to beat by Ole although Lille did achieved that in the league but is it that difficult to get 2nd place and qualify against mighty Leipzig and Istanbul Basaksehir?

I used to remember we had Young, Ole, Sheringham, Berbatov, Nani and etc on the bench.

I mean you don't need three of them. At least one or someone else to allow him making a sub that he can trust, last time I remember he subbed off Bruno & Pogba for Pereira & Fred vs Southampton and we conceded to 2-2 and Ole was crucified in here for not keeping them on the pitch. I also kept pull a Klopp as example how he doesn't really use Shaqiri on the bench often enough but when it's Jota, he loves to use him when he's on the bench.

Jeppers7 · May 28, 2021

While I agree we need a better squad, it’s massively on Ole that he bought VDB and Amad and refuses to play them, Dan james also. The suggestion that developing tactics and training patterns of play, team shape etc are almost some kind of myth is ridiculous. Manager, coaches and tactics have never been more important in football than they are today. It’s why a team as poor as Villareal took us to penalties and why every game we play is a coin toss.

RuudtheRed · May 28, 2021

I agree with the OP.

I've seen many people lambasting Ole for his choice and delay in making substitutions at key moments in the last 2 seasons - the previous season, where we were chasing top 4, Ole seldom made any early substitutions and kept the same starting 11 on the pitch for most of the time. In the Europa League final, he didn't make any substitutions until after 90 mins were played.

For me - it's a question of squad depth. We have a great deal of players, and generally we have solid options to bring on in defence to see out a game. However, most substitutions are generally attacking ones and that is where I feel that we are lacking in quality depth. How many of us would expect James, Mata, Donny or even Amad to come on and have a real, tangible game changing effect? I'm not ruling out improvements in their performances next season (except for Mata whom I believe will leave) but I'm only looking at how they have performed this season.

We had our best attacking players on the pitch in the Europa League final for the 90 mins, all of whom can be individual matchwinners. Their replacements are not up to that same standard. That is why I can understand why Ole was hesitant to make subs at an early stage, though I disagree with taking Mason off.

Unfortunately, Martial was not fit to play due to injury and I don't know if he would have performed well given his difficulties scoring this season.

Gone are the days where we could sub on the likes of Rooney and Scholes in a Premier League match vs Bolton. Gone are the days we could bring on wingers like Nani and strikers like Tevez when we needed a goal. Investment in the summer is key if we want to progress further.

Inigo Montoya · May 28, 2021

Jeppers7 said:
While I agree we need a better squad, it’s massively on Ole that he bought VDB and Amad and refuses to play them, Dan james also. The suggestion that developing tactics and training patterns of play, team shape etc are almost some kind of myth is ridiculous. Manager, coaches and tactics have never been more important in football than they are today. It’s why a team as poor as Villareal took us to penalties and why every game we play is a coin toss.

The Amad issue is looking very hollow. He’s a kid who’s bought for the future. Putting so much faith in him to have come in and made a difference is absurd.

devilish · May 28, 2021

UNITED ACADEMY said:
I used to remember we had Young, Ole, Sheringham, Berbatov, Nani and etc on the bench.

I mean you don't need three of them. At least one or someone else to allow him making a sub that he can trust, last time I remember he subbed off Bruno & Pogba for Pereira & Fred vs Southampton and we conceded to 2-2 and Ole was crucified in here. I also kept pull a Klopp as example how he doesn't really use Shaqiri on the bench often enough but when it's Jota, he loves to use him when he's on the bench.

Sir Alex ran the show for decades. There were times when his squad was almost perfect and others when even his first team was flawed. For example he won his last league title with an ancient Scholes and Giggs, an ageing Carrick and Cleverley in CM. He also had Valencia and Young on the flanks. I am pretty sure that he would gladly switch that midfield with the one Ole has at his disposal (Pogba, Bruno, VDB, McT, Fred, Matic etc) + Rashford, Martial and Greenwood on the flanks.

All I am saying is that United had very rarely had top quality strength in depth. We often had to make due with unknowns (Ole) and average players from the youth academy (OShea, Phil Nev etc). We bridged the gap through hard work, great coaching and tactics. If Ole believes that he need a squad of 23 world class players to constantly bail him out then maybe he should move to our neighbours. I doubt that Manchester City would be interested in a manager who had never won a top trophy in his life and keep getting his arse handed to him by football giants like Villareal and Istanbul Basaksehir though.

Jeppers7 · May 28, 2021

Inigo Montoya said:
The Amad issue is looking very hollow. He’s a kid who’s bought for the future. Putting so much faith in him to have come in and made a difference is absurd.

I think he will be a bit of a slow burner and if I had to guess he’ll end up being an excellent player for us.

I might be wrong of course but I can’t help to wonder if he’d been given more opportunities, would he have been more able to contribute last night. Villereal had an 18 year old start up front who won’t be better than Amad, yet we wouldn’t even consider giving him ten minutes against a tired defence and haven’t all season.

All our signings this season have been absurd bar Cavani, when we really need to strengthen the first 11.

UNITED ACADEMY · May 28, 2021

devilish said:
Sir Alex ran the show for decades. There were times when his squad was almost perfect and others when even his first team was flawed. For example he won his last league title with an ancient Scholes and Giggs, an ageing Carrick and Cleverley in CM. He also had Valencia and Young on the flanks. I am pretty sure that he would gladly switch that midfield with the one Ole has at his disposal (Pogba, Bruno, VDB, McT, Fred, Matic etc) + Rashford, Martial and Greenwood on the flanks.

All I am saying is that United had very rarely had top quality strength in depth. We often had to make due with unknowns (Ole) and average players from the youth academy (OShea, Phil Nev etc). We bridged the gap through hard work, great coaching and tactics. If Ole believes that he need top players to constantly bail him out then maybe he should move to our neighbours. I doubt that Manchester City would be interested in a manager who had never won a top trophy in his life and keep getting his arse handed to them by football giants like Villareal and Istanbul Basaksehir though.

Everyone will take Giggs, Valencia & Young over James, VDB & Mata. 12/13 has better squad depth.

If Ole has Pereira starting XI, do you think he will sub him off for Mata? Yes! He did it in his 19/20 season. Until he has Bruno who offers different level then there is no reason for Ole to sub him off for someone who is par below the quality. You with me? So let me continue:

Did Sir Alex sub off Carrick who was class in that season? No. None offers the same quality to replace him from the bench. The same none of our bench yesterday could replace the others in our XI. But when you see Greenwood on the bench for example vs Spurs, did Ole brought him on from the bench for Rashford? Yes. Why because Greenwood can replace his quality. Did you see Sir Alex brought on Nani for Young? Yes. Why because Nani can replace his quality. See the pattern now?

You keep using O'Shea & Phil Neville but Ole used Axel and Matic/McT to defend a lead as well.

Squad depth is king

Might have a bedwetting fetish.

Fending off the urge

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Might have a bedwetting fetish.

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Fending off the urge

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The bad "V"

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Turns player names into a crappy conversation

Juventus fan who used to support United

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Pogfamily Mafia

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Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

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