Villarreal 1:1 Manchester United

It was weak from Lindelöf on the goal, and maybe de Gea should have claimed it. Our CBs also struggled with the offensive marking when Villarreal decided to counter attack. The absence of Maguire has really shown that our second, third and fourth choice CBs aren't good enough, and that all of them should move down one place in the pecking order.

But I see our biggest problem yesterday as Pogba, Bruno and Rashford struggling to create anything. I don't know if they were tired, or if Villarreal just did an amazing job with shutting then down. It was mainly McTominay, Shaw, Greenwood and Cavani that creates chances for us.

Problem for Old was that he couldn't take off our worst performs, because they were the most likely to provide the winning contribution. And the options weren't really good either. Maybe he could have kept one of Pogba, Rashford or Greenwood on the bench, but that would mean starting Fred, who has been appalling for weeks now.

Dobba said:

Who are the Teddy and Ole on our bench?

Click to expand...

Well what about when Macheda coming on and winning us that game against Villa. It isn't just about replacing a player with someone as good, it's about fresh legs, fresh ideas. If something isn't working with the team that started (and it wasnt, 2 shots on target the entire game), you have to try something else. Instead we just ran the team into the ground who were obviously not getting anywhere.

djembatheking said:

Finishing second in the league and runners up in the Europa league means we are not far away so our owners shouldn`t have to invest too much into the squad .

Click to expand...

How can you say we are not far away. Is the target Europa? We want to compete with city, real, Bayern not 2nd rate European clubs. Even winning the Europa doesn't mean we are close enough (how close to the top of world football are teams like Sevilla who have won it multiple times). We finished 12 points behind. That's a pretty big gap. I say we need to spend a decent amount to address our clear issues inorder to progress deep into the CL and catch up those points in the league. Bear in mind our rivals will also strengthen futher.

Alek M said:

Who would you have substituted and when?

Click to expand...

Fred for Rashford at around 70 mins. He was useless. We had lost all our 2nd half momentum and needed a fresh push that Pogba may have provided.

James for Greenwood at 90. He was looking tired.

Subbing on DJ which has absolutely 0 effect on a low block is just mind boggling. At least VdB can do something on the ball. Even Mata would be better.

Such a cowardly in game management. And Solskjær talks about needing more players??? So so dissapointed.

Most of the players were nervous and tense and were trying to force the issue, have to question the mentality here.

SeeMe said:

so in conclusion, which team deserve to win if both didn't deserve it? A draw?

Click to expand...

Pretty much. Which it was.

As a one off game goes, that was pretty awful.

There were good spells and bad, and in the initial 90 we should have come up with something to break them down. We were on the front foot for the most part, just could not create or get in to dangerous areas.

Extra time was a shambles - we just played with no intent and let them come at us. Penalties is always a bit of a lottery, but De Gea done himself no favours with his attempted saves. Commentary mentioned his atrocious pen record, which I was not aware of.

Good points of the game.
>Cavani. Put in a monster shift, worked endlessly. Has to be gutted to be on the losing side.
>Mctominey. I'm almost always critical of him, but he played well. Drove us on. Our only midfield player to come out of the game with pride intact.

Bad points.
>If that does not confirm the absolute need for a CB and a CM nothing will. Bailly and Lindelof do have good qualities, but we cannot compete or improve with these pair around. Lindelof in particular again just highlights how desperate we are for a competent CB.
>CM - i've highlighted above that McTom was our best midfielder. While thats great for him, he was in a midfield with 2 supposedly "elite level" players. Pogba might as well have not been on the pitch and Bruno was so so wasteful and poor off the ball. Might be a little harsh on Bruno, who even in his poorer games, you still get a feeling he could do something. But overall, from GK up to CF we were pretty rotten for the 90 and extra time.

I still don't understand why we didn't make changes sooner. Rashford was way off pace and clearly needed replacing from the 50-60 minute mark. It would have been worthwhile swapping him with pogba, at least that would have got us a midfielder on the pitch in Fred who would have put some effort in. Ole has a serious love in with pogba and rashford and I dont get it. Both we're playing beyond abysmally and they stayed on.

This game in isolation was a calamity, absolute nonsense performance.

Bigger picture is looking better.

Big summer needed transfer wise - it's glaringly obvious where we need big changes.

I'm hoping we can get 7-8 off the books and maybe 4 signings in, with at least 3 of them being x11 level players

This is a massive summer for Ole in terms of player recruitment but more importantly player departures.

Let me first start by saying this, Ole is the first person that has to change. He HAS to be more like Fergie when it comes to big matches and that is be ruthless. It's not his personality, which is why the players love playing for him, however he bottled it last night. DeGea should have been replaced for the penalties given his poor track record for penalty saves. Rashford should have been subbed off instead of Greenwood. Rashford was poor the entire match, hell for most of the season due to carrying injuries yet he kept him on when Greenwood was much more of a threat.

Now...I saw an interesting comment today where it spoke about Fergie in 99 having the option to bring on Ole and Teddy against Munich in 99 where as Ole had James and Amad. The gulf in attacking depth between what Ole has and what Pep or Tuchel have is massive and right now is the biggest issue. That issue has to be addressed first and it has to be guys that can either be automatic first XI or first off the bench and part time starters. Guys like Amad, Shoretire, Elanga, Hannibal are the future potential stars for this club but they aren't the immediate future and should be integrated into the main squad when allowed.

United MUST buy two forwards because right now we have only 3 that Ole trusts. That isn't nearly good enough for a club that wants to compete for European trophies and Premier League trophies. Sancho has to be one of those players bought. He brings balance to the front 3, he's young, he's english and he knows the league plus he's a proven player in European matches. The second player is the one for debate and trying to figure out who and at what cost. The big names that have been mentioned are Kane, Haaland and Grealish. We could have used any of those 3 last night up front but the more effective against a team like Villarreal who sat in a 631 block at times would have been Grealish. Haaland will stay this summer at Dortmund so he's out and the two english guys will cost a lot of money.

United MUST buy a Center Back to play alongside Maguire. Lindelof and Bailly are capable players however one is quite rash and commits too many stupid fouls and the other gets bullied way too often for a CB. Lindelof was "at fault" for not picking up Mareno as he was too focused on the ball and not looking for runners but at the same time Shaw should have been shouting to get his attention with Mareno changing his run. Torres was good last night in terms of his ability in the air, his ability to defend balls into the box and he's left footed. He's not the best playing out of the back but he would fit well alongside Maguire. Varane is the only other choice due to his vast experience, his size and his ability to play with the ball at his feet. Tuanzebe might have a future here however he may need to go out on loan next season to get experience.

So that's 3 absolute MUST purchases.

Two areas of improvement....RB, CM

The only way we will reinforce the CM, IMO, is through player sales. Ole spoke after the match about having two big misses last night in personnel with Fred and Harry. It appears he is a fan of Fred and won't be selling him. I thought Scott proved last night that he is more than capable of being an 8 and that Pogba proved that he doesn't have it to play that 8. Last night was a golden chance for Pogba to prove that he is a creative, attack minded, ball dominating CM and he was completely outclassed by McTominay.

Our right back situation needs to be looked at as well. Villarreal completely tried to force us to play down the right knowing full well that AWB isn't nearly the attacking fullback that Shaw is and they were fine with AWB getting on the ball on the wing as he can't beat a player 1v1. We don't have a current RB on the roster to challenge AWB other than maybe Dalot who spent the year on loan in Italy hopefully learning how to defend.


Here in lies the big task for Ole....Who to sell or move on which would allow us to improve areas of the squad like RB and CM.

Grant looks to be gone and is being replaced by Heaton. I can't see DeGea staying if he isn't number 1 and i can't see Henderson staying if he isn't number 1.

Pogba/DvB.....one of them has to be sold. Ole didn't play Beek last night which was a bit surprising with us going into extra time and quite honestly i'm not convinced Ole fully trusts him yet. Pogba last night in our biggest match of the season didn't show up. Social media and everyone else has been begging for Pogba to play alongside Bruno. He got his opportunity last night and completely bottled it. I'd sell Pogba.

Mata and Matic are going to leave so that does put us a bit short in depth with only 4 recognized CM's with young guys like Hannibal and Garner in the youth ranks.

I think you have to look at selling either James or Martial and just based on last night it appears that James seems to be the odd man out. In a game crying out for a change in attack, Ole didn't bring him on.

What to do with Lingard? I guess that will completely depend on West Ham and how much they are willing to spend on him. If the amount is right, sell him.

If you sell Pereira, Lingard, Pogba/DvB and James/Martial that should give you enough money to bring in players that can have a squad impact because lets face it, 3 of those guys did feck all this year for the club.

You have to remember we were only ever in this competition because we lost to that Turkish lot after winning our first two CL games, then failed to get the sole point we needed from our last two games. Chokers.

Ixion said:

Well what about when Macheda coming on and winning us that game against Villa. It isn't just about replacing a player with someone as good, it's about fresh legs, fresh ideas. If something isn't working with the team that started (and it wasnt, 2 shots on target the entire game), you have to try something else. Instead we just ran the team into the ground who were obviously not getting anywhere.

Click to expand...

Well what about when Van Gaal brought Nick Powell on against Wolfsburg?

Pogue Mahone said:

Well what about when Van Gaal brought Nick Powell on against Wolfsburg?

Click to expand...

Well fair fecking play to him for trying. Jesus christ. Are you actually arguing we keep the same 11 on for 120 minutes?

Ixion said:

Well what about when Macheda coming on and winning us that game against Villa. It isn't just about replacing a player with someone as good, it's about fresh legs, fresh ideas. If something isn't working with the team that started (and it wasnt, 2 shots on target the entire game), you have to try something else. Instead we just ran the team into the ground who were obviously not getting anywhere.

Click to expand...

You have absolutely nailed it there

Ixion said:

Well fair fecking play to him for trying. Jesus christ. Are you actually arguing we keep the same 11 on for 120 minutes?

Click to expand...

Dunno where you got that impression. Just pointing out that bringing on a sub, any sub, doesn’t always work out and keeping all the players most likely to be influence the game as long as possible is sometimes the best option. Subbing Nick Powell on was a terrible decision, at the time and with hindsight.

Pogue Mahone said:

Dunno where you got that impression. Just pointing out that bringing on a sub, any sub, doesn’t always work out and keeping all the players most likely to be influence the game as long as possible is sometimes the best option. Subbing Nick Powell on was a terrible decision, at the time and with hindsight.

Click to expand...

If you''re in a European Final and you've had plenty of time in charge your bench shouldn't be full of Nick Powell's you're afraid to bring on.

The idea our bench was full of hopeless players is ridiculous anyway. As if Mata wouldn't have been an option to try against a team parking the bus and the game moving at 1mph.

Ixion said:

If you''re in a European Final and you've had plenty of time in charge your bench shouldn't be full of Nick Powell's you're afraid to bring on.

The idea our bench was full of hopeless players is ridiculous anyway. As if Mata wouldn't have been an option to try against a team parking the bus and the game moving at 1mph.

Click to expand...

Now we’re on the same page! I’d have definitely brought Mata on earlier than we did.

How the last 5 Europa league runners up fared the following season.

Inter Milan - Serie A champions, Coppa Italia semi finalists, group stage exit in CL

Arsenal - FA Cup winners, 8th in PL, 4th round in league cup, round of 32 EL

Marseille - 5th in French league, round of 64 and 16 in their domestic cups and CL group stage exit

Ajax - 2nd in league, round of 16 exit from their domestic cup, CL exit at the 3rd qualifying round and lost the Europa league play off round

Liverpool - 4th in the PL, FA Cup 4th round, league Cup semi finalists. (they had no European football that season)

I wrote the following after the Leicester match and I think it holds up. I think the club, the sport (was written pre ESL burn and bitch, or The 2021 ESL chew and screw) and fandom is at a juncture of sorts.



As an outsider (see username: the man's first touch was legitimately atrocious, but he, like, tried really hard. And I loved that) I'll offer my 2 cents on what "accepting mediocrity" means.

It is not that long ago that I and many others viewed Manchester United as some combination of the Death Star, Darth Vader (with helmet on), Rocky Balboa and the Terminator. Your club might have been down in matches but was never out, you won everything in sight, you could throw out 3 janitors in midfield and a roll of duct tape in defense and win 2-0. Sir Alex was a once in a lifetime manager, sure, but...there was an aura about United that surely extended beyond one man.

It's, what, less than a decade later? And your manager says cups are for the ego and is seen smiling and chortling and offering any excuse under the sun after every manner of defeat. I'm not just reacting to the FA Cup exit; this is something that has gone on for a long time. You've gone from outdated managers who set out to win things but were a bit past it, to a manager who is very happy to be there and be part of it all, who won't take the managers parking spot, a manager whose crowning career achievement was in Norwegian league 8 years ago.

Frankly, I'd much rather be fearful of you lot than watching a procession of plastic clubs and sports washing ventures proceed to dominate the landscape. I almost long for the days of being fearful of you lot. Instead I feel a bit of pity, because it all seems to start and end with your bloodsucking American owners and bullshit businessmen masquerading as football men. I feel that your owners and club hierarchy have been crystal clear with you the supporters on their expectations; Money=good, expectations of winning things=BAD. That's the Glazer reign in a nutshell for me. And I think they've found the perfect foil in Ole Gunnar Smilefactory, a good time fellow who will never, ever, ever rock the boat. He is happy to be there and they seem very happy to have him there.

Sorry to lose the thread; I was trying to summarize "accepting mediocrity". So Sir Alex retired, and you went from reasonably expecting to win the league at the start of every season, to now being locked in internecine wars about what the expectations should be, what anyone else could do with this squad, whether the players are fit for purpose, what kind of elite player in each position will bring out the best out of underperforming signings in that position, and on and on.

Every year United flame out of all cups, and a top 2 push is seen as real progress now, no matter the double digit distance to first. The aura is deader than dead. You're 2nd in the league yes, but with a budget that means you should be up there or thereabouts every year, and as soon as the games *might have mattered* you went on a desperate slide, only to beat City when things started to kinda not matter anymore. Similar to the green and gold scarves thing just sorta fading from sight, it is remarkable to me how many on here are just willing to say "well, who could he have rotated for Bruno" or whatever in lieu of actually asking that your manager manage well, and it's the same shit you'll be saying when Ole manages to crash out of the Europa League. Which I'd stake my nonexistent reputation on happening btw. You see, I watched your Champions League campaign this fall. And the semifinals last year. And the games in the league where the counter-attacking doesn't work. And..... All of this while the powers that be at your club are celebrating, ecstatic with the slide into mediocrity, because the dividends are rolling in nice and steady.

I think that's a bit of what your supporters mean when they talk about accepting mediocrity. Give Ole more time, give him more signings, sign Sancho, whatever, you'll be back here next season, trying to talk yourself into a 3rd place finish as progress because...reasons. Something is rotten in Denmark and it's plain to see; Manchester United has become a club designed to make money, winning things is beside the point. I think the supporters amongst you deserve better than being owned by 'mike ashley, but with a better PR team and far deeper pockets, because there are so so so many of you to milk'. Within 5 years I think the bantz will be something akin to "Lads......it's Manchester United."

And oddly enough, that bums me out.

I'm a Manchester United supporter so I support the players and the staff - which isn't to say that I approve of everything that happens at the club.
Sometimes I have good days when I look for cures for cancer, try to bring about world peace or find new ways to provide energy. Other days aren't so good so I pour a cup of tea and catch up on the Caf.
The important thing is to realise when things aren't going well. It was obvious at half-time that we were playing for a shoot-out - why else would Marcus have come out for the second half.
Scott wasn't the most skillful player on the pitch but he showed some guts and determination and I appreciate that. It takes more than skill to win at anything.

ForeverRed1 said:

who’s got 4 million of disposable cash that wants a football club? It ain’t happening, we have to get our head around the fact

Click to expand...

A lot would buy for only £4 million but the true cost is £4 billion so yep not to many !

@firstkuyttouch , in fact my opinion is that United fans should accept that the club is now a mediocre club as long as the Glazers are in.
In fact, both SAF and Wenger made their owners look much better than they are. Everything was alright when SAF was here, the Glazers gave a huge budget, but not too much, and SAF preferred working with that budget and did not believe in overpaying for players. He retired and the Glazers had plenty of funds left, but subsequent managers began to spend these funds with no returns and club performance began to fall and revenue began to fall.

As businessmen first, the Glazers will ensure that everyone gets their fat pay checks first before spending money on players, the academy or repairing Old Trafford. The Glazers cares only if we win enough to attract big sponsors to come in, but they do not care what and how we in, and this is the reality that United fans need to accept moving forward. We have now fallen the point where Liverpool was in the late 90s.

This is why I think OGS deserves another year. He is the pandemic manager. Clubs now are tight on budget, and the last thing that Glazers want to do during this pandemic is to spend too much, as no one knows when the pandemic will be over. Gillet and Hicks brought in Hodgson and Rodgers to Liverpool for the same reason - they are managers who work with limited budget and restrictions, and the same goes for OGS. He is the type of manager for Glazers - someone who will not complain when not enough funds are available, go for a CL finish every year and work with the academy players.