im no medical expert (obviously), but it appears to me that the medical staff and what was on hand more than did it’s job today (yesterday). There is a reality that this sort of situation is extremely rare, and there’s only so much contingency/ resources that you can put in place. It is a balance - and you can’t have a defib at every corner of a pitch at every match.
Christian Eriksen
- Thread starter andersj
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Hernandez - BFA
The Way to Fly
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
- Messages
- 17,301
It annoys me how people have commented that the “medical team could have acted quicker”.
Given what we actually know about the event, they couldn’t have acted fasted and they have saved the man’s life. Absolute bullshit that “they should have done more quicker” - if you don’t understand the purpose of CPR, then research into it before stating it.
Given what we actually know about the event, they couldn’t have acted fasted and they have saved the man’s life. Absolute bullshit that “they should have done more quicker” - if you don’t understand the purpose of CPR, then research into it before stating it.
Møllemanden
Full Member
Millions of kids are watching. Cut the feed ASAP.I may be in a minority, but I do disagree with the idea of cutting the feed straight to the studio, I think that may actually have caused more fears and panic, to a degree there was a duty for the broadcasters to keep us knowing what was happening as much as possible, but yes some of what could be seen like you mention with the twitching etc, should have been avoided
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg
Full Member
- Joined
- May 22, 2017
- Messages
- 13,122
what you are suggesting is a direct contradiction of the OFCOM code.I know, not saying it was right. Just that earlier comments in response to people who hadnt viewed the game asking questions were givign the impression the cameras were showing more than they did.
They showed more than they should. Not defending them but those behind the cameras and directing were probably in as much shock and upset as us too.
I may be in a minority, but I do disagree with the idea of cutting the feed straight to the studio, I think that may actually have caused more fears and panic, to a degree there was a duty for the broadcasters to keep us knowing what was happening as much as possible, but yes some of what could be seen like you mention with the twitching etc, should have been avoided
Suffering and distress
8.16: Broadcasters should not take or broadcast footage or audio of people caught up in emergencies, victims of accidents or those suffering a personal tragedy, even in a public place, where that results in an infringement of privacy, unless it is warranted or the people concerned have given consent.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/broadcast-codes/broadcast-code/section-eight-privacy
TheMagicFoolBus
Full Member
Agreed with everything you've said. It's all a matter of probability and maximising the odds - haven't seen anything reported that would suggest that inaction worsened Eriksen's chances.That interview is really clarifying on what happened. It makes a lot of sense to me and i thing everything was handled correctly. Happily, the result of that is that Eriksen is alive now
If he was breathing at first, he was not on cardiac arrest, so in that moment, absolutely no cpr was required
But these events are always dynamic, and things can vary wildly from one second to another. Im pretty sure while assessing his state, suddenly the staff didn't feel any pulse at a certain moment, and cpr was promtly started.
Also, there are times when the medical staff do everything right according to the stablished protocols, and the patient still perishes, because many reasons. Its really hard when that happens and also there's no way in the world we can convice the family and loved ones of the person that the staff was not at fault at least in a little bit about the dead. It's just after debriefing of the case that we just accept that there was nothing that there could have been done to have a different result.
Anyway, I'm really glad that eriksen is ok now
TheReligion
Abusive
It's all about timing you're right. That and a bit of luck. Having people near by who are composed and know a little makes all the difference. You'd also be surprised how little passers by want to actively get involved in a situation. The mindset of "someone else will do it" creeps in.Ok, excellent. Did they take less than 2 minutes before getting to their patient, though? It seems as good as you can reasonably get. Running and collapsing in the nearby park, it would have taken 10-15 minutes at best, only and if some kind runner / stranger alerts the medics instead of running by, brainless, into his own earpods.
I think that you are probably right to suggest that there should be more proactivity with regards to how to deal with this type of crisis and making sure everyone is available, but I do think that this quote from the Danish team doctor is germane:
“I didn’t see it myself but it was pretty clear that he was unconscious,” he said. “When I get to him he is on his side. He is breathing and I can feel his pulse but suddenly that changes and as everyone saw, we started giving him CPR. Help came really, really fast from the medical team and the rest of the staff and with their cooperation we did what we had to do. We managed to get Christian back. He spoke to me before he was taken to the hospital for more analysis.”
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...sper-hjulmand-i-cant-praise-my-players-enough
Would say personally that it'd be harsh to fault the medical team too much based on this perspective - maybe they could have been faster with the defib but it seems that it might not have been deemed strictly necessary upon first exam.
That seems fair enough then. If he was breathing initially then that explains the delay. Obviously there's been other reports suggesting Kjaer first noticed the problem and started CPR - that would be pretty concerning for me if that was the case given he's not one of the team professionals.The national team doctor, Morten Boesen, told the media that Eriksen was breathing and had a pulse when he reached him. But that changed in less than a minute, and that's when they started CPR. I don't think they could've acted any faster.
Eriksen looked pretty much out immediately from watching live but the main thing is hes survived and appears to be doing well.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2014
- Messages
- 307
Wow. So many Monday morning experts in here. Incredible to criticise the response or medical teams handling of the situation. Specially when you do not even have all the facts available to you. Some people need to learn to just stay quiet. You don’t have to voice every opinion that crosses your mind. Yikes.
TheReligion
Abusive
I think everyone is well aware of the purpose of CPR to be honest.It annoys me how people have commented that the “medical team could have acted quicker”.
Given what we actually know about the event, they couldn’t have acted fasted and they have saved the man’s life. Absolute bullshit that “they should have done more quicker” - if you don’t understand the purpose of CPR, then research into it before stating it.
TheMagicFoolBus
Full Member
Yeah agreed - though my initial impression was that Kjaer was more focused on making sure Eriksen's airway was clear. I didn't see him doing chest compressions or anything like that, but obviously there were no replays and I definitely could have missed it.That seems fair enough then. If he was breathing initially then that explains the delay. Obviously there's been other reports suggesting Kjaer first noticed the problem and started CPR - that would be pretty concerning for me if that was the case given he's not one of the team professionals.
Eriksen looked pretty much out immediately from watching live but the main thing is hes survived and appears to be doing well.
Certainly this isn't to take anything away from Kjaer - unreal leadership in the face of such a crisis. If Denmark award knighthoods he should be a prime candidate on the basis of his actions alone, if you ask me.
WeePat
Full Member
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2015
- Messages
- 17,356
- Supports
- Chelsea
Fair enough, I think it's been a rather emotional day for everyone. I know I'm absolutely drained and I haven't moved off my sofa more than once since this afternoon.Sure. After reading some others comments on this, i might take back what i said about this. Probably i was being a bit harsh
I think UEFA and FIFA have to make a protocol about inesperated events like this and when to play the remaining of the match, for example, a couple of days later, or something like that, instead of improvising what to do next everytime
You're right. There has to be some kind of contingency plan in place in the event a game has to be suspended. I don't think that's what the UEFA officials were doing, but if they were it seems utterly absurd that they had to try and navigate the situation on the spot.
TheReligion
Abusive
Oh Kjaer and Schmeichel were both great.Yeah agreed - though my initial impression was that Kjaer was more focused on making sure Eriksen's airway was clear. I didn't see him doing chest compressions or anything like that, but obviously there were no replays and I definitely could have missed it.
Certainly this isn't to take anything away from Kjaer - unreal leadership in the face of such a crisis. If Denmark award knighthoods he should be a prime candidate on the basis of his actions alone, if you ask me.
Which is what I don't get if he was breathing from the very start.Kjaer just tried to clear his airway and seemed to try stop him “swallowing” his tongue (which isn’t really a thing). I don’t think he started CPR on Eriksen, not to diminish his contribution, mind you.
panic? Must be traumatising to see someone collapse like that.Which is what I don't get if he was breathing from the very start.
TheReligion
Abusive
Maybepanic? Must be traumatising to see someone collapse like that.
TheMagicFoolBus
Full Member
Could be wrong, but presumably his breathing was extremely laboured and/or erratic - a footballer is probably unlikely to understand the limited efficacy of clearing the airway in that case all things considered?Which is what I don't get if he was breathing from the very start.
mu4c_20le
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2013
- Messages
- 43,417
Probably thought he was having a seizure instead of the heart, as he wasn't holding his chest.Which is what I don't get if he was breathing from the very start.
TheReligion
Abusive
Could have been but in that case the physios and team staff should have started CPR instead of getting him in the recovery position. The medics and defib should have been called for immediately too.Could be wrong, but presumably his breathing was extremely laboured and/or erratic - a footballer is probably unlikely to understand the limited efficacy of clearing the airway in that case all things considered?
Anyway it's a stressful situation and the main thing is it seems to have ended well. As I say it's about learning. There's absolutely no reason they can't have medics on each side of the pitch and there should be more than one defib available and accessible. If each team had one and there were a couple at opposite ends of the pitch valuable time could be saved providing the individuals involved recognise that is what's needed and are proactive in getting it, even as a precaution.
Berbaclass
Fallen Muppet. Lest we never forget
The physio/ team doctor started CPR as soon as he lost his pulse it became necessary from the comments. I think you’re splitting hairs.Could have been but in that case the physios and team staff should have started CPR instead of getting him in the recovery position. The medics and defib should have been called for immediately too.
Anyway it's a stressful situation and the main thing is it seems to have ended well. As I say it's about learning. There's absolutely no reason they can't have medics on each side of the pitch and there should be more than one defib available and accessible. If each team had one and there were a couple at opposite ends of the pitch valuable time could be saved providing the individuals involved recognise that is what's needed and are proactive in getting it, even as a precaution.
TheMagicFoolBus
Full Member
Agreed. You're spot on to say that these situations can come down to seconds; it's certainly worth reviewing protocols to ensure that a stricken player has the best care possible as quickly as possible. It was a bit ridiculous to watch the doctors have to sprint across the pitch.Could have been but in that case the physios and team staff should have started CPR instead of getting him in the recovery position. The medics and defib should have been called for immediately too.
Anyway it's a stressful situation and the main thing is it seems to have ended well. As I say it's about learning. There's absolutely no reason they can't have medics on each side of the pitch and there should be more than one defib available and accessible. If each team had one and there were a couple at opposite ends of the pitch valuable time could be saved providing the individuals involved recognise that is what's needed and are proactive in getting it, even as a precaution.
Renegade
Full Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2009
- Messages
- 5,393
Thank god he seems okay.
BBC not covering themselves in glory with the coverage however the point about people complaining but not changing the channel is a fair one.
BBC not covering themselves in glory with the coverage however the point about people complaining but not changing the channel is a fair one.
Mr. Ant
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2014
- Messages
- 732
I'm no medical expert but didn't Daley Blind collapse during training session? If I remember correctly surgeons fitted an implant and he made a complete recovery few months later.I'd say so yeah. That's what happened with Muamba, although his seemed to be more serious as his heart was stopped for 78 mins.
Good luck to Christian, I hope he will make a complete recovery without any difficulties. I'm sure medical staff will give him a recommendation what to do next.
Martial
Full Member
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2015
- Messages
- 542
@TheReligion in the running for the biggest train-wreck I've seen in the last 24 hours even with that BBC coverage
Pscholes18
Full Member
Have we found out what happened to him? Was it a heart attack? Did they bring him back from death???
Withnail
Full Member
Oh wow. I wasn't aware of that. I didn't think you'd still be able to play a sport like football after having one fitted.I'm no medical expert but didn't Daley Blind collapse during training session? If I remember correctly surgeons fitted an implant and he made a complete recovery few months later.
Good luck to Christian, I hope he will make a complete recovery without any difficulties. I'm sure medical staff will give him a recommendation what to do next.
Berbaclass
Fallen Muppet. Lest we never forget
When I’d seen what was happening you had no choice but to watch really, I was so desperate to see that he was okay. Turning it off didn’t cross my mind.Thank god he seems okay.
BBC not covering themselves in glory with the coverage however the point about people complaining but not changing the channel is a fair one.
The Cat
Will drink milk from your hands
On 21 December 2019, it was revealed Blind had been diagnosed with myocarditis, and had been fitted with an implantable cardioverter-defibrillatorOh wow. I wasn't aware of that. I didn't think you'd still be able to play a sport like football after having one fitted.
I'm sure he had a collapse before diagnosis.
I was in the St. Petersburg fan zone watching this live on a gigantic screen with thousands of other people. Can't even imagine being at Parken if it happened there.
Simply no words to describe those 10-15 minutes...it was crazy. I almost gave up...nearly in tears, just took my lady's hand and told her: "let's go to Zenit Arena and hope for a miracle."
when I browsed Twitter on metro, definitely didn't expect good news, but thank god for that. Really no words to say.../but really, it looked terrible on TV. thank god, he's good now.
Really put the "football match" that followed later in the stadium in context. but in Copenhagen and in. St. Petersburg...was a very strange vibe all game.
Simply no words to describe those 10-15 minutes...it was crazy. I almost gave up...nearly in tears, just took my lady's hand and told her: "let's go to Zenit Arena and hope for a miracle."
when I browsed Twitter on metro, definitely didn't expect good news, but thank god for that. Really no words to say.../but really, it looked terrible on TV. thank god, he's good now.
Really put the "football match" that followed later in the stadium in context. but in Copenhagen and in. St. Petersburg...was a very strange vibe all game.
Oly Francis
Full Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2018
- Messages
- 3,944
- Supports
- PSG
It's actually not that low, survival rate to discharge for young patients using AED's within the 1st couple of minutes is probably above 60%.I am an ICU physician and have supervised plenty of code blue situations (doing CPR, using AEDs, etc)
It is absolutely remarkable that he is alive and speaking. The medics (and referee who stopped the game instantly) are absolute heroes. The survival rate after CPR is low, and survival with good neurological outcomes (like speaking and talking) is even lower. This happened with Eriksen because of the immediate action of the medics in administering early CPR and defibrillation.
He went into SCD (Sudden Cardiac Death) from VT/VF (Ventricular Tachycardia/Fibrillation). Typically in an otherwise healthy young person, it's due to structural heart disease (like Hypertrophic Obstructive Cardiomyopathy - HOCM). I'm not sure if players routinely get echocardiograms when signing for clubs, which would have identified this beforehand. It's not cost-effective in the general population but I am not sure about big clubs. It could also be due to genetic arrhythymia syndromes or less likely due to electrolyte abnormalities. In any case, he is going to get a battery of tests in the hospital and leave with an implanted defibrillator (ie, pacemaker).
Or just put the defib on some kind of golf cart that would allow anyone to be anywhere on the pitch within 20 seconds. I don't think having teams of doctors all over the place with different devices would be that helpful.Could have been but in that case the physios and team staff should have started CPR instead of getting him in the recovery position. The medics and defib should have been called for immediately too.
Anyway it's a stressful situation and the main thing is it seems to have ended well. As I say it's about learning. There's absolutely no reason they can't have medics on each side of the pitch and there should be more than one defib available and accessible. If each team had one and there were a couple at opposite ends of the pitch valuable time could be saved providing the individuals involved recognise that is what's needed and are proactive in getting it, even as a precaution.
The Cat
Will drink milk from your hands
Same. I was watching it on iplayer though so I clicked on to other windows and left the volume on - it really shook me up some of the images I really wish I'd never seen.When I’d seen what was happening you had no choice but to watch really, I was so desperate to see that he was okay. Turning it off didn’t cross my mind.
sullydnl
Ross Kemp's caf ID
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2012
- Messages
- 34,063
Once he collapsed I (like most people) wasn't going to switch off, because there was pretty bloody obvious interest in knowing what happened to him and whether he was okay.
That doesn't mean I needed to see a close-up of his face when he was struggling for life, or of his distraught wife/girlfriend standing by, or of the extended attempts to resuscitate him. You can keep covering the incident without showing any of that. And people can be invested in following the incident without it negating criticism of what was actually shown.
That doesn't mean I needed to see a close-up of his face when he was struggling for life, or of his distraught wife/girlfriend standing by, or of the extended attempts to resuscitate him. You can keep covering the incident without showing any of that. And people can be invested in following the incident without it negating criticism of what was actually shown.
iKnowNothing
Full Member
Good to know that he’s safe.
If he gets a pacemaker implanted, will that affect his contract in any way? If I remember this correctly, he’s on a big contract at Inter and they need to save money. So can they use some health related (say having a pacemaker) to not honor the contract or something?
If he gets a pacemaker implanted, will that affect his contract in any way? If I remember this correctly, he’s on a big contract at Inter and they need to save money. So can they use some health related (say having a pacemaker) to not honor the contract or something?
If he gets a pacemaker implanted, will that affect his contract in any way? If I remember this correctly, he’s on a big contract at Inter and they need to save money. So can they use some health related (say having a pacemaker) to not honor the contract or something?
If he gets a pacemaker implanted, will that affect his contract in any way? If I remember this correctly, he’s on a big contract at Inter and they need to save money. So can they use some health related (say having a pacemaker) to not honor the contract or something?
Might have been taught basic first aid at some point. There, you're often taught to check if the patients airways are clear, and whether or not they're breathing (ABC for the initiated: Airways, Breathing and Circulation.) In that case, it would make sense that Kjær ensured his airways were clear and that he was breathing. Given that we now know that Eriksen was breathing at the time, it also makes sense that Kjær stopped at that.Which is what I don't get if he was breathing from the very start.
Since Eriksen was breathing and had a pulse when the team doctor got there, so we can safely assume the unsourced claims of Kjær performing CPR are false, and likely based on people thinking CPR is just another term for basic first aid or something.
- Joined
- May 10, 2021
- Messages
- 360
Inter has to consider if the backlash they surely will receive is worth those money.Good to know that he’s safe.
If he gets a pacemaker implanted, will that affect his contract in any way? If I remember this correctly, he’s on a big contract at Inter and they need to save money. So can they use some health related (say having a pacemaker) to not honor the contract or something?
MiracleInMadrid
Full Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2019
- Messages
- 783
Kjaer and Eriksen are very close due to them both living and playing in Milano and a long national team career together. Their families as well are close.Oh Kjaer and Schmeichel were both great.
Kjaer tried to play on, but couldn't continue as he was too emotional, the danish coach Hjulmand has said.
Hjulmand also indirectly slandered UEFA for only giving them the choice of playing through or waiting til sunday at lunchtime. He said that it basically wasn't a choice for them. Everyone in the Danish camp would have a hard time sleeping and prepare for a match that fast after the incident.
CM
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,331
Come on. The medics were with him as quickly as you'd ever see in a situation like this. As a few of the broadcasters rightly said a football stadium is likely one of the 'best' (maybe the wrong word) places this can happen given how quickly you will receive attention.Could have been but in that case the physios and team staff should have started CPR instead of getting him in the recovery position. The medics and defib should have been called for immediately too.
Anyway it's a stressful situation and the main thing is it seems to have ended well. As I say it's about learning. There's absolutely no reason they can't have medics on each side of the pitch and there should be more than one defib available and accessible. If each team had one and there were a couple at opposite ends of the pitch valuable time could be saved providing the individuals involved recognise that is what's needed and are proactive in getting it, even as a precaution.
If this happened to Eriksen when he was at home, best case scenario it likely takes at least 10-15 minutes before an ambulance is with him. A few close up shots of a medical emergency which shouldn't have been shown doesn't make the average punter sitting at home any more qualified than the specialists who were on hand in seconds.
Anyway, really glad to see all seems to be okay with Eriksen now. I was fearing the worst when it first happened.
CM
Full Member
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2014
- Messages
- 7,331
In the context of what happened yesterday it would be far more surprising if he did play again.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Sad but health is most important thing and at least he had 10 years in the game.
Bit of a trash 'news' story from Sky there though. It's a speculative piece on something which isn't actually that important in the grand scheme given he was fighting for his life less than 24 hours ago.
Most likely scenario. Any condition which can provoke sudden death can trigger again with high intensity sport. Having an implantable defibrillator is not a guaranteed that it will keep you safe 100% of the times.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Sad but health is most important thing and at least he had 10 years in the game.
Too sad because i always rated him as a player. Class attacking midfielder. But this was not a minor health issue
RoadTrip
petitioned for a just cause
Agreed.In the context of what happened yesterday it would be far more surprising if he did play again.
Bit of a trash 'news' story from Sky there though. It's a speculative piece on something which isn't actually that important in the grand scheme given he was fighting for his life less than 24 hours ago.
Paxi
Dagestani MMA Boiled Egg Expert
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2017
- Messages
- 27,678
Yeah a good point.In the context of what happened yesterday it would be far more surprising if he did play again.
Bit of a trash 'news' story from Sky there though. It's a speculative piece on something which isn't actually that important in the grand scheme given he was fighting for his life less than 24 hours ago.