oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. How good we were in the actual champions league games? and if you want to move the goal posts: how good were we against Sheffield United, Fulham and WBA, to name just three?
What do people see in Lindelof?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
I think you do. Lindelof shouldn’t be a premier league footballer. And he is stealing a living because how has he conned people into believing he is anywhere near the level he is playing at?
Lindelof is a good squad player, currently he just 'edges' it in front of Bailly, Tuanzebe, Jones.... end of!
Keeps reasonably fit, can bring the ball out, can make the odd long ball with precision, has got better at not being turned too easily, can make some 'timely blocks' but less than he should.
However too easily bullied, especially in the air, can get caught out by not watching the positional play of AWB, looks distinctly uncomfortable when trying to play out from the back, returns ball to keeper or Maguire 90% of the time, when first recipient . He should be a bigger threat in opposition box, because he can 'leap'.
But as we all know we need something better!
Keeps reasonably fit, can bring the ball out, can make the odd long ball with precision, has got better at not being turned too easily, can make some 'timely blocks' but less than he should.
However too easily bullied, especially in the air, can get caught out by not watching the positional play of AWB, looks distinctly uncomfortable when trying to play out from the back, returns ball to keeper or Maguire 90% of the time, when first recipient . He should be a bigger threat in opposition box, because he can 'leap'.
But as we all know we need something better!
I haven't moved the goalposts one bit, you mentioned that we would struggle to defend against top end Champions League team and I came back to you with factual information on how we defended against literally the last two teams left in this seasons Champions League.
Interesting how this thread is kept going by single posts of varying posters with almost the majority evaluating he's not good enough even with his 'pro' attributes.
It's almost as if some of us have been saying this for years and there's the few staunch defenders still backing him like he's a really high level player. He's had good performances but overall his best ability is actually staying fit rather than actually possessing really assertive abilities or being a dominant defender/player.
Many have called it. He's the weakest link in our defence and player (in their respective position) of the first team. In terms of transfers I would go with CF, CB, RW and then CM but of course that depends on the players available. If we're not getting Haaland/Kane and it's looking likely we're getting Sancho, then CB is the next absolute priority.
It's almost as if some of us have been saying this for years and there's the few staunch defenders still backing him like he's a really high level player. He's had good performances but overall his best ability is actually staying fit rather than actually possessing really assertive abilities or being a dominant defender/player.
Many have called it. He's the weakest link in our defence and player (in their respective position) of the first team. In terms of transfers I would go with CF, CB, RW and then CM but of course that depends on the players available. If we're not getting Haaland/Kane and it's looking likely we're getting Sancho, then CB is the next absolute priority.
I like him, he has a cool head and is generally consistent and reliable. He also has good technique and is a good reader of the game. However, his physicality has been a problem since day 1 and it baffles me that there has seemingly been zero improvement in what should be an easy area to work on. He could be a very, very good defender but it seems, from the outside, both Lindelof and the club have recognised his deficiencies and declared themselves satisfied.
As things stand, he needs to be upgraded.
As things stand, he needs to be upgraded.
Our club is in a mess. While we need to upgrade on Lindelof, we have more CB problem than we thought.
1) We had a similar but better CB in Daley Blind but we let him go on a cheap.
2) We have a CB who really can defend in Smalling but we sold him cheaply.
3) We renewed 5 years contract for a perpetual injured CB in Jones.
4) We have a backup CB who is rash and injury prone in Baily
5) We have the world most expensive CB who is very slow in Macguire.
6) Tuanzebe? You never know what you will get from him. Very inconsistent.
1) We had a similar but better CB in Daley Blind but we let him go on a cheap.
2) We have a CB who really can defend in Smalling but we sold him cheaply.
3) We renewed 5 years contract for a perpetual injured CB in Jones.
4) We have a backup CB who is rash and injury prone in Baily
5) We have the world most expensive CB who is very slow in Macguire.
6) Tuanzebe? You never know what you will get from him. Very inconsistent.
an incompetent and unreliable starting CB for the “biggest club itw”
but not in the champions league
Do you have some examples of goals we have conceded because of his “physicality”? And would you say he as individual is responsible for more conceded goals than for example Maguire or AWB?
Do you actually have the numbers for this? Also somewhat subjective because there have been goals we’ve conceded where people have differing in opinions where some say it’s Bissaka’s fault, some say Lindelof and others Maguire.
Off the top of my head that I can think of quite an even spread is it not.
47% Ground Duel Success. That's sign of weak physicality.
A really poor defender that is weak in the air, physically weak with decent pace and decent ability on the ball. He's a guy that would fit in well at a club like Watford or West Brom but not United.
If he scores tonight I am so going to bump this thread.
And if he plays shit I'll pretend it doesn't exist.
And if he plays shit I'll pretend it doesn't exist.
Foldline.
Funny thing is that the player you've named after, has done less for the club than Lindelöf has the last couple seasons
Martial was player of the season and top scorer last year?Funny thing is that the player you've named after, has done less for the club than Lindelöf has the last couple seasons
No I don’t have any numbers and as you say, it is subjective. And for most goals, more than one player is to blame.
For every defender it is easy to see when we concede because of their weaknesses. If we concede because of AWBs poor positioning, Lindelof losing a duel or Maguire wing easily dribbles. Then people say “That would never have happened with Smalling/Bailly/Mr x” or something similar. But we don’t see the goals we avoid conceding because of a defender.
Every defender has weaknesses. I just can’t recall use conceding many goals from Lindeof “ being weak”.
It’s also a lot of confirmation bias on how we analyse a goal. Remember when Vestergaard won scored a goal on an aerial last season and Lindelof was described as weak. Now Tarkowski scored a carbon copy goal in the face of Maguire and we don’t think this was because Maguire was weak.
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Correction we need something different, He is a less physically imposing Maguire. He like Maguire needs a quick aggressive partner who is more of a vidic in style. Its that simple
All of our players get criticised for various things and get unfair slating on the caf - even our best players. Half of the criticism for Maguire in his threads is basically criticising him because he's captain or cost £80m.
The issue with Lindelof is the the list of what actually does well is short and tenuous. Staying fit and not being erratic as Bailly being top of the list of compliments isn't a high bar.
Yes, that something different.... is something better!
I agree there should be a Vidic/Rio type combo at CB. Maguire would/could qualify in the Rio position, but we need someone like Vidic to replace Lindelof.
Replace is the wrong word to be fair. Lindeloff starts by default because all other defenders we have, opposite to him and Maguire are unreliable fitness wise or past it like Jones. They are the ones who need replacing. Ideally Maguire and Lindelof would never have been a partnership. It would have been Maguire plus a Bailly/Tuanzebe. with Lindeloff plus a Bailly/Tuanzebe as a back up.
I keep telling folks on here and else where. Maguire and Lindeloff are our Stones- Otamendi. Two excellent defenders who simply bring out the worst in each other because they are way too similar in overall defensive style.
A lot of the criticism is reactions from the last matches and the EL final. If you look at the results we started poorly and finished poorly. In between we had 32 games with solid defence and then people were happy with our three CBs and most people thought a. We CB was at the bottom of our priorities. Then some poor matches after we secured top 4 and a lost final and people change their mind.
Up to a certain level you can get away with carrying a centre back. City did fine with Fernandinho playing there for example, but look at the difference it's made for them getting Dias.
I don't think anyone has ever thought Lindelof is a long term solution but we've already spent £80m on Maguire so we never going to rush back into buying another CB.
Despite doing well defensively by the numbers, the call for a new CB was there all season for most fans and pundits. A more solid partner for Maguire has been at the tip of everyone's tongues throughout. Ole plays 2 more defensive minded players normally because like everyone, he doesn't have the confidence that the 2 will just mop everything up and is worried about players getting a run on them.
It's not to say Lindelof is crap but, he just doesn't form a formidable partnership with Maguire to really instill confidence.
I honestly think Lindelöf would be better as the defensive/deep player in a 3 man midfield, than as a center back. But it's probably to late for that now. Or even just as a wide center back in a back 3. Don't think he'll ever be good enough to win us the Premier League as either though. .
I consider the season that just finished last season/year, but sure.
I'd rather keep Lindelöf than Martial if i had to chose.
Whoever gave him the name of iceman should have their heads checked. Never seen a defender who backs off so much from attackers. Stand your ground and put a tackle in, ffs. And he is so poor in the air.
we definitely need a vidic next to maguire.
we definitely need a vidic next to maguire.
That is the only reason he does start. Which is why we need to address CB. Neither he or the other backups are good enough to be first team regulars.
Long throw specialist
A long thrower
Victor Lindelap
This video is hilarious
Long thrower, all over the place on that cross that Olmo headed. Sums him up. Guy is just a random CB, with random attributes not related to defending.
Mata looks pissed off, Lindelof looks uncomfortable
Magnificent tonight for Sweden. Well done Lindelöf.
Could he be a shot put player? Perhaps he’s better suited to track and field
He's amazing, we dont need a new CB.
