We played very well vs PSG in both games, but most of the time in big games, we play very cautiously and reactively and let the other teams take initiative. Not to the extent England did yesterday, but we don't really control games vs the big games.
Southgate vs Solskjaer
- Thread starter PoTMS
- Start date
Reach a bit further
My main problem with them is that because they're not good enough, they make stupid decisions which draws a lot of abuse onto the players.
Clear examples are Ole playing Rashford through multiple injuries, or playing for pens in the EL final and leaving DdG on the pitch. Both decisions which resulted in a ton of unnecessary abuse for said players, when the manager was ultimately responsible. And Ole's done that kind of thing quite a number of times without learning his lesson.
Same with Southgate and the Euro final fiasco. Now there's unnecessary pressure going forward for our lads and Saka, as well as an inquest for Grealish and other senior pros, all because the manager wasn't good enough.
Clear examples are Ole playing Rashford through multiple injuries, or playing for pens in the EL final and leaving DdG on the pitch. Both decisions which resulted in a ton of unnecessary abuse for said players, when the manager was ultimately responsible. And Ole's done that kind of thing quite a number of times without learning his lesson.
Same with Southgate and the Euro final fiasco. Now there's unnecessary pressure going forward for our lads and Saka, as well as an inquest for Grealish and other senior pros, all because the manager wasn't good enough.
It's surely not possible.
I did wonder how long it would be before the pochetino fanclub would reappear. Never thought it would take less than an hour though.
It's almost impressive, they must've been hopping around waiting for the tournament to finish, like a 5 year old trying to hold their pee.
I’m not an Ole fan but he is levels and levels above Southgate.
Southgate took over Borough, was backed heavily and got them relegated, then got sacked. That’s literally all he did before he joined the U21s.
Southgate took over Borough, was backed heavily and got them relegated, then got sacked. That’s literally all he did before he joined the U21s.
Ole is very good when teams attack. Once England got the early goal it's Ole territory. The counter attacking game. Sterling is used to playing in a team that has possession. Rashford is used to play in a team that's counter attacking. You can see that England was defending deep and no one was even trying to get behind the Italian defense. Kane is too slow for that. And he was not able to hold the ball and get to the two wingers and also get into the box.
I would give it to ole. England didn't have that outlet when they got possession. Rashford and sterling after one hour might changed the dynamics of the game.
Honestly thought starting Kane would be trouble. We needed pace against Italy's aging defenders, Sancho, Rashford or Grealish would've had Chiellini on toast. Instead we had the Kane from the group stage rather than Ukraine and Denmark. Ambling around and being no use whatsoever.
We want to but still can't, mainly because the quality of our midfield. We may to some extent of some parts of the game but largely we're simply trying our best to not be controlled/dominated by the opponents.
If you want to completely control the game against the big teams you're talking of a midfield around the calibre of Barcelona 2011. In fact, even Liverpool or City hardly control the games against the top teams. It's more like a here and there. It's incredibly difficult to aquire a midfield that would dominate other top midfields on a regular basis anyway.
No top PL club would want either of them.
Both teams have the same midfield and possession weaknesses.
I see the same frustrating issue in both managers that they both heavily rely on their best 11 players to win matches and afraid to sub their top stars during a game, where as you have managers like mancini and emery who were able to defeat both the former managers mentioned in finals by being able to get the best out of their entire match day subs bench to good effect in game.
Well the "like a 5 year old" bit is certainly true.
How sad to use even the skinniest connection to make a poorly disguised dig at Ole.
It was all through the fecking tournament. Southgate makes a sub ... "Ole wouldn't have done that so soon". Southgate doesn't make a sub "just like Ole". England win a game (with that attacking talent!) "shows Ole how to control a game".
It's just relentless
Madness. We've not even started preseason and they're already at it.
Ole is a lot better, they’re not really comparable. United’s football is better, we score a ton of goals, and yet barely have a quality player outside of the first XI. Ole picks his best players, Gareth doesn’t and sticks with his favourites. Ole holds off on subs because he has little game-changing quality on the bench. Ole goes defensive against teams with a lot of quality, but goes for the throat when we have the upper-hand.
This really is the most ridiculous of comparisons, just another thread to have a pop at our manager.
This really is the most ridiculous of comparisons, just another thread to have a pop at our manager.
This thread is joining that outrageous Rashford thread in my ignore list.
There really is no limit to how fecking stupid some of the posters here can get 
No idea who is better tbh. Ole's done a decent job but keeps doing the bare minimum rather than anything groundbreaking. Southgate has also done a decent stabilising England who need someone more expansive. My gut feeling tells me that both United and England will reach the level they want to with someone else.
/thread
Only putting Rashford and Sancho on in a final to take penalties is like having a Ferrari and only using it to drive to get milk at the corner shop. What message is sent to players of that stature whose manager doesn't trust them to play in open play in a major final? They were probably insulted by the lack of playing time, I could understand if England were pushing the Italians on to the back foot but they were crying out for something else up front, instead the emphasis was placed on the manager's favourites who work hard but were not producing quality.
Excellent point. Look at our bench vs Villarreal and England’s bench vs Italy. If only we had those choices...Also I think Ole would never have a 19 year old take the 5th penalty. Not even Greenwood who I would like to think takes penalties better than Saka.
I think next season if we really do buy sancho varane and another name and finally have 3-4 quality subs we can count on week in week out when those signings slot into the starting lineup, Ole will continue to prove the haters wrong and we will take another step forward and finally win something.
We call that the "her husband" phenomenon here
Ole spent his playing career at the highest level, playing with proven winners in high-stress situations. What has Southgate done? A couple of league cups? He’s way out of his depth. I feel for him because he seems like a decent bloke, but he royally fecked this game up.
Ole will have a better bench next season, so expect to see this reputation crumble. Ole’s bench in the EL final: Fred (not fully fit), Mata, Tuanzebe, James, Telles. A flat downgrade on absolutely everyone else out there, and you’d only bring them on because they would be fresh legs.
Southgate had Rashford, Saka, Sancho, Grealish, DCL. All game-changing players! I’m still fuming at how badly he bottled this.
In the hullabaloo it reminds us that there is something more important than just football. It's human dignity.
I would rather have Ole as manager and win nothing compared to winning everything under a racist prick.
I would rather have Ole as manager and win nothing compared to winning everything under a racist prick.
Ole. It’s not even a discussion.
What do we think then?
Both rubbish.
At least Ole had matches where we played good football. Southgate can't manage that to save his life. Both are frauds and both are shit.
Ole head in my opinion. Went to shit at the end but we played well at periods and scored a lot of goals.
Silly argument as ultimately southgate going to get sacked too
Silly argument as ultimately southgate going to get sacked too
I thought Ole was tragic but he was miles better than Southgate.
Basically the same manager.
I said he's due an Ole vs Liverpool moment but I didn't expect it to be tonight
Two peas in a pod.
Southgate is still the better manager easily.
Ole was miles better. They’re both managers who aren’t great tactically and tend to rely more on creating a good environment for the players. But even in spite of that Ole occasionally pulled out some decent tactical tweaks in big games.
Nothing has changed.
I’ve always thought they’re very similar. This was his Liverpool moment. I think he’ll be gone after a poor WC.
Quite eerie how they mirror each other, even down to the length of the good results in large part to other teams/countries falling apart.
Ole was way braver with his attackers, I mean compare Mount and Bruno
Southgate has done better. Before this nations league England had great results.
Ole never had that with us.
Ole never had that with us.