Thank God some of us are emotionally mature enough to see past this cleverly crafted manipulation.
sarcasm
Rashford is going ahead with surgery and could be out until October
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
sarcasm
I’m glad some people can see through this. He’s still a top lad though.
1. Thank the lord Rashford is getting this surgery. Clearly much-needed, and hopefully he'll come back playing like he was in December '19 and '20 having regained his ability to beat a man. Expecting a huge season from him now that we'll have two wings to attack from.
2. Until then, Sancho along with Greenwood and a switched-on Martial (a man can hope) will be plenty of cover in the wide positions. So I'm not too bothered about losing this version of Rashford for 10 league games or so.
3. Six months and half a dozen threads later, STW' is still in here claiming that people called him a moron for simply daring to suggest Rashford might have been off-form in the second half of the season, as opposed to multiple variants of this:
(I know he's not going to respond directly to this because he never does have a response to being called out. We'll just see another "yes yes Rashford is God's gift to the world and if you disagree you're a child-eating Tory" one-liner a few posts down)
2. Until then, Sancho along with Greenwood and a switched-on Martial (a man can hope) will be plenty of cover in the wide positions. So I'm not too bothered about losing this version of Rashford for 10 league games or so.
3. Six months and half a dozen threads later, STW' is still in here claiming that people called him a moron for simply daring to suggest Rashford might have been off-form in the second half of the season, as opposed to multiple variants of this:
Slight difference between the two, isn't there, lad?
(I know he's not going to respond directly to this because he never does have a response to being called out. We'll just see another "yes yes Rashford is God's gift to the world and if you disagree you're a child-eating Tory" one-liner a few posts down)
Stand by every word. He lacks so much a player who has as much experience at the top level as him should expect to have. He lacks so much of the basics as a footballer. It’s not to say he’s not talented but he’s still far too raw a talent and it’s concerning he still, on a good day, looks indistinguishable from the raw talent he was four or five years ago. The difference between him and Martial is negligible yet people don’t clutch their pearls when he is rightfully criticised in the same way.
Is he any more likely to beat the defender now than four years ago? He should be on the path to finessing what he has not still pretty much being the same player only less arsed about tracking back.
But I’m sure everyone who insisted he was playing great at a time when he confesses he was injured and not playing well will be along to criticise my assessment any moment
I’d take Rashford as he was three years ago over Rashford now and I think if people didn’t fear the pile on they’d admit they would too
Is he any more likely to beat the defender now than four years ago? He should be on the path to finessing what he has not still pretty much being the same player only less arsed about tracking back.
But I’m sure everyone who insisted he was playing great at a time when he confesses he was injured and not playing well will be along to criticise my assessment any moment
I’d take Rashford as he was three years ago over Rashford now and I think if people didn’t fear the pile on they’d admit they would too
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Okay dear
And here comes the victim card.
Stw- I got criticized for saying Rashford's second half of the season was poor. It was all valid criticism
Brexit Brigade - you said no top 7 clubs in top leagues will sign Rashford.
Stw - plays the victim card.
Apparently saying Rashford won't be signed by any of the top 7 clubs in top leagues is all fair criticism.
And then the imaginary criteria by when players will stop their improvement when this was already debunked in other thread.
Apparently Rashford is at same level he was 3 years ago or maybe worse
Maybe I’m wrong and he’ll be a mainstay for club and country for the next decade and become old of the best and sought after players in the game
Maybe I’m right and he’ll become an increasingly marginalised figure for United and England as other, better, players are signed or emerge .
It needs to be ok to hold both opinions.
Maybe I’m right and he’ll become an increasingly marginalised figure for United and England as other, better, players are signed or emerge .
It needs to be ok to hold both opinions.
I will no doubt be attacked for this but I think there are certain elements of what STW is saying that has some merit. Im not sure I would say the top 7 clubs however Im not sure how much he would improve our immediate rivals just on a purely footballing basis? I dont think thats hugely important though. I think he has improved as a player over the time he has been in our team and I would say the numbers probably back that up, however I do think its right to say that he is just as likely to make the same type of mistake that he was making at the start of his career and that element of his game is extremely frustrating. I think there is a line in the sand being drawn by this injury and the onus is on Rashford to kick on when he returns. If he is going to be a truly top footballer there is usually a season where a player changes and kicks on hugely, hopefully that will be Rashford when he returns.And here comes the victim card.
Stw- I got criticized for saying Rashford's second half of the season was poor. It was all valid criticism
Brexit Brigade - you said no top 7 clubs in top leagues will sign Rashford.
Stw - plays the victim card.
Apparently saying Rashford won't be signed by any of the top 7 clubs in top leagues is all fair criticism.
And then the imaginary criteria by when players will stop their improvement when this was already debunked in other thread.
Apparently Rashford is at same level he was 3 years ago or maybe worse
There is no doubt in my mind he is protected somewhat by being a local lad who has done tremendous things off the field as opposed to say, being a sulky French lad who appears disinterested at times. I dont think its a huge leap to acknowledge that and in truth Im not sure there is anything wrong with it. Being a nice person gets you a long way in the real world, football shouldn't be that different. Its not going to cover up for not being good enough but it definitely cuts you a bit of slack. Its shouldn't be relevant when discussing a players ability though as it constantly seems to be here.
Top 7 clubs in top leagues, which includes at least 5 other leagues.
You say he is protected lad as he is from academy, the other side says there is element of racism in the criticism and also he is targetted for feeding kids. Each just accuse other for some random things and both sides think they are genuine and the other side isn't.
Martial gets defended too, it's only after last season people stopped doing it or stopped doing with same intensity.
Forgetting all the off field things which includes feeding kids or graduating from academy, just talking about his on field performance, how is it valid criticism to say no top 7 club in top leagues will sign him or he was better player 3 years ago?
Also not sure why everyone loves to come up with "I know I will get attacked for this" "people are afraid to say this as they think they will get attacked". It's getting silly now.
I have nothing against you btw, it's becoming common theme and it's silly thing to say. You won't get lot of alerts for saying Rashford should improve his overall game, or he lacks some attributes or his second half of the season was poor. Forget all that, I don't think many would even disagree if anyone says Rashford had good numbers but his season was average.
When someone comes up with nonsense like top 7 clubs in top leagues thing, it's obvious you will get lot of replies and it's not attacking. This is forum and people will reply to the post they like or strongly disagree with.
14 goals and 7 assists difference last season = negligible.
You’re admitting that he was injured last season, but then still criticising him for not tracking back or being able to beat his man (both things which require a lot of movement).
I think everyone would take a healthy Rashford from three years ago over the one we saw last season, especially himself, hence the surgery, so what point are you even trying to make?
Whilst my own criticisms and doubts extend beyond just the last few months, you were hounding anyone who dared suggest he wasn’t playing well in a period of time we know even he himself acknowledges he wasn’t playing well.
You even literally mocked the idea someone else was entitled to come to an opinion on how he was playing by watching him play. Instead you just threw stats at people and all your friends gathered round to gang up on your behalf. You can pretend it didn’t happen to half a dozen posters, nearly all of whom couldn’t be arsed and stopped engaging, but it did
When he was awful you attacked people, not even counting me, for having the view he wasn’t playing well. How many posters got lambasted with your ‘goal creations’ table for daring to point out he was off form?
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Stop playing the victim card ffs.
Why is that only you deserve to hold an opinion but others can't have an opinion that your opinion or your post was nonsense? (That top 7 clubs post)
No I didn't mock the eye test, I mocked the 'Posters with agenda coming up with Eye test' thing, when it's obvious they are just agenda driven posters who always come up with "my eye test" nonsense.
No, I posted stats when someone said his end product isn't even good or good enough something like that. Stop posting half baked arguments to project yourself as some sort of victim.
All my friends ganged up?
I have said many times, he had average season with very good numbers. You just twist everything and love playing the victim card.
Must be sarcastic, he said injuries was excuse and implied it's all just fake set up.
No victim card you didn’t run me off. You did the others though with your incessant condescending replies to hundreds of posters across this subject and others . Your entire MO across Rashford threads has been to attack people for having a different opinion to you on Rashford.
‘Agenda driven posters’
replies to hundreds of posters across this subject and others . Your entire MO across Rashford threads has been to attack people for having a different opinion to you on Rashford.‘Agenda driven posters’
"No top 7 clubs in top leagues will sign Rashford" deserves lot ofNo victim card you didn’t run me off. You did the others though with your incessant condescending
‘Agenda driven posters’
You and the other poster made the thread unreadable for many, so much that they didn't even bother posting there reading the nonsense you and few others posted.
Its funny how many times @Brexit_Brigade called out your nonsense and your victim card, you just casually ignored him, posted sarcastic post without even replying to him directly and next day repeated the same thing.
Oh I didn’t even read back past the last page. I’m just going to back away from this one
I don't think it's in this thread, also not word by word btw. I'm just paraphrasing all the posts in to single sentence.Oh I didn’t even read back past the last page. I’m just going to back away from this one
[
I say "I know I will get attacked for this....." because frankly I know I will. What I think is getting silly is if you have a negative opinion of Rashford someone will respond with "there are other things at play here...." meaning presumably race or politics. Its a disgusting allegation and I have no doubt its a reason why I think some people will no longer engage. Im not racist, I hate racism and the thinly veiled implication (or not that thinly veiled in some cases) is out of order IMO. Thats not "playing the victim" either, its absolutely happened.
Talking about Rashford has almost become like talking about VAR, it has to be polarised and people have to be pigeon-holed into one camp or another. Its a bit of a shame really.
I said top seven clubs was probably not accurate so im not sure why we are still referencing that.
I say "I know I will get attacked for this....." because frankly I know I will. What I think is getting silly is if you have a negative opinion of Rashford someone will respond with "there are other things at play here...." meaning presumably race or politics. Its a disgusting allegation and I have no doubt its a reason why I think some people will no longer engage. Im not racist, I hate racism and the thinly veiled implication (or not that thinly veiled in some cases) is out of order IMO. Thats not "playing the victim" either, its absolutely happened.
Talking about Rashford has almost become like talking about VAR, it has to be polarised and people have to be pigeon-holed into one camp or another. Its a bit of a shame really.
It's not just for Rashford, it's same with many other players. People have used the same argument in Pogba, Martial and lately in the Depay thread.
Apart from one or two posters, I haven't seen anyone implying that but anyways you see what you want to see, same for everyone.
Re the actual point, you said stw point has some merit, his post was no top 7 club in top leagues would sign Rashford, the one you said is completely different thing. Whether he will strengthen our direct rivals. That's completely different points, so not sure how his point has any merit, at least going by your reasoning.
No I didn't, I said some of what STW had to say had some merit and while the Top 7 clubs thing was something I disagreed with Im not sure Rashford would strengthen our immediate rivals. STW has made many many points on this topic and you have decided that is the only one for some reason. Some of what he has said I agree with, some I disagree with but if you agree with anything that puts you firmly on one side of the fence apparently.
Its not a question of "seeing what I want to see", Jesus Christ man cant you see the irony in what you are saying?! If someone calls me a Tory sympathiser because I say Rashord may not be a good as everyone thinks, if someone says "there are other things at play when people criticise him" how the hell is that "seeing what I want to see?". And what does "apart from one or two posters I haven't seen anyone...." actually mean? Apart from the people who say it I haven't seen anyone say it. If thats the level of discussion thats been reached thats absolutely hopeless. Oh well, apart from the people who racially abused Rashford I haven't seen anyone racial abusing him. How absurd would a comment like that be?
Well he is undergoing surgery so the speculations that he was injured, where clearly correct.
Given that he was playing with a injury last season his dip in form is explained.
Whether or not he will get back to his best form remains to be seen and is impossible to know before he is back to full health.
Given that he was playing with a injury last season his dip in form is explained.
Whether or not he will get back to his best form remains to be seen and is impossible to know before he is back to full health.
From my point of view I was in no doubt that he had "an injury" the question was really how bad it was as he was playing every game but playing really quite poorly.
His statement addressed this by saying that it caused him to play so poorly that he felt he was letting everyone down. The statement also said that the injury was being managed and because he was playing games he was fine to go to Euros and expected to play and represent his country.
So no clearer. We also know that needing an op wasn't an open and shut case either because first he was having it, then he was thinking about it and then he was having it again, so clearly some doubt there.
Where is the irony when I said it's same for everyone else, fecking hell calm down. People on whatever side of the argument they chose to be, they see what they want to see. You can say/shout/cry how impartial or how objective you are, doesn't change anything. Everyone will see everything through that lense. Best example is the way tou dissected Rashford's tweet and how others saw that.
Someone calls you tory sympathizer or whatever the hell it is, you call them not being genuine or not rating Rashford same way as others because he is acadmey player. Posters on one side accuse others of one or the other mindless nonsense which has nothing to do with on pitch performance.
Yes you are absolutely correct. English is not my native tongue so I should have worded it better. What I meant was, that NOW we know he was injured and how bad it was, which we didnt before. But since we know now, there is really no reason to speculate on whether or not he is good enough for us, before he is back to full health.
Thats not whats happening. Its what you WANT to be happening but that doesnt make it true. Again you are creating divisions where you have to be on one side of the fence or the other. I think Rashford it a good player, I think he had quite a poor season in terms of performance but at the same time the numbers dont lie about his contributions. I think "generally speaking" the majority of the long term fanbase will be more sympathetic to a home grown player who is seen as "one of their own", not just Rashford but players in general (as an aside look at how many Spurs fans feel Kane should be allowed to leave). I think his injury situation is really odd and I thought the Tweet/statement was dreadful. I dont know what 'lens" that means I am viewing everything through.
I read and didn't feel particularly strongly either ways. In fact I didn't think he needed to issue one as in he doesn't owe us any explanation. Curious as to why you thought it was dreadful?
I'm creating division? Stop being so dramatic. Yeah I'm the one who is creating division with "please don't attack me" "I know I will get attacked for this" posts as if there is a group actively looking to attack anyone who says Rashford is not great player.
You think fan base is more sympathetic to home grown player, some other person sees the amount of abuse/criticism he got was increased after his ;feeding kids; campaign, where there was lot of political noise. You think you are genuine, the other person who accused also thinks he is genuine.
People always use this "Academy" thing, IIRC you are the one who said Rashford don't get much criticism and I posted around 20 threads which were created in year and half just for criticizing Rashford (Maybe it was you or someone else asked in that cult thread). So this is something you think or want to happen but it's not true. Players who gets shit loads of criticism are Rashford, Pogba, Lingard, McTominay and all of them are academy players. There are other players like Martial, Fred who gets criticism too. So in short, every ManUtd player gets it but I'm yet to see around 20 threads for any player except Rashford and Pogba.
Also just because you are somewhat fair in your criticism or your views doesn't mean everyone is. So not sure why you think you are representing a bigger group here.
@roonster09 relax man, people have different views on things, that's what a forum is all about.
Rashford will come back in October and light the place up again and everyone will be happy
Rashford will come back in October and light the place up again and everyone will be happy
I dont think I am representing a bigger group, I am saying that because I was in any way critical I was placed in a group. I represent myself with my own view but I am being pigeonholed.
I dont think its unreasonable to say that a number of those defending Rashford will be doing so because he has come through the academy and is considered "one of our own". That doesnt mean that there aren't "some" who will criticise him for other reasons. I would say on the whole he has received far more praise than criticism for the feed the kids thing but it is tiresome and annoying when it is trotted out as part of a discussion about his on field performance. If you say he has had a poor season and its met with "he has done things that go beyond football" I find that irrelevant to the debate.
If you take ANY player you will get fans who rate and dont rate them. What perhaps I should have said to be more clear, isnt that I think he gets more slack because he came through the academy, but in fact those who are fans of his will be more likely to cut him slack because he came through the academy.
Who placed you in any group? I must have missed it.
You don't think it's unreasonable, likewise posters like @Nou_Camp99 thinks it's not unreasonable to say Rashford is getting more criticism for his campaign. Why do you think only your view is reasonable? I mean he didn't say everyone who criticize Rashford belongs to that group, he said there is a sharp increase. Also we have seen tweets that Rashford was getting criticism for his campaign, especially after the Euro finals.
So if you think few/many who defends Rashford is because he is from academy, why is it wrong to think few/many who criticizes Rashford does it for off field stuff? You can't group everyone into same group but what you said is true to an extent, likewise it's true for the other side of the argument too.
I disagree with both groups btw. I think he is rated just like any other player and gets more than fair share of criticism (I have even posted the proof of that). So not sure where this "Academy protection" is coming from, if that's true, imagine the shit he gets if he was from other academy. We might see 100 threads in a year. Also was he protected when people came up with "championship level player' "Rashbeck" "Rashford" "not good enough for any PL team" posts?
You have given one example, that if you say Rashford has poor season and someone replies with off field stuff, it's annoying. I agree with that. On the other side, when you see people who come up with "no top 7 club in top league will sign him" "his injury was fake" "injury is just an excuse" "his output is not good and then post wrong stats for the sake of it" "moaning about one moment in the game when he scored hattrick coming on as a sub" then it's equally annoying.
Also your last point, Rashford fans cut him slack because he is from academy, it's same for every player. That's why I said people are biased and it's for both side of the argument. People who like the player won't criticize them as much as they should and the posters who don't like the player will nitpick everything.
Sure I will explain, just my opinion. Firstly I agree that he didn't have to give an explanation and he doesn't owe one but he chose to give one so I think its fair enough to look at what he has said.
Looking at this thread and others as a reflection of the fanbase my take on things is that Rashford has received some criticism for his sub-par (or perceived sub par) performances last season. The response to this criticism from fans seems to take two avenues...
1- His numbers are some of the best in Europe and the criticism is unwarranted on that basis, he has been excellent
2- He has been playing with a injury, is clearly injured, and the reason he is playing poorly is because of that. If anything the club are mismanaging him by continuing to play him.
For me thats two contradictory viewpoints and I think its normal to wonder which is closer to the truth so we look for clue as to the reality.
He gets picked for United so it seems the injury cant be SO bad that it prevents him playing altogether but maybe we are doing that out of necessity . But hang on, he was chosen by England so their medical team obviously passed him fit enough to join up with the squad so maybe its not so bad after all. However he didn't play so we are back to thinking the injury could have a significant impact.
After the Euro's its announced that he needs an op and will be out for three months - ah there was a bad injury after all. Then it switches to "He is looking at his options" which suggests he may not need an op. Then it switches back to he does need the op and will indeed be out for three months.
I dont think the above is untrue is it? Thats where I think we are. All he needs to say is "I need the op, will be back better than ever, thanks for the support" if he doesnt want to go into details. No problem with that its his right. But he DID go into details. So has he cleared up the above confusion?
1- I played through the pain because I put Man Utd first.
2- My performances were so bad that I felt I was letting people down
Yet
3- I went to the Euro's because it was my dream, I may not have gone had I known I wouldnt play
4- My injury was being managed and it was fine, after all I played all the games and made 36 goal contributions so what difference does it make?
So essentially he has endorsed both points of view, has said the injury severely hampered his performances yet at the same time it was being managed well enough for him to go to the Euro's. His performances for Man Utd were poor enough for him to feel he was letting people down but those poor performances didn't make him think he wouldnt get picked for England or would let England down if picked. I just dont understand where he is coming from at all with this sorry. He didn't need to say any of it, and for me it just makes me wonder even more whats going on with him.
Thats my take and thats my opinion rightly or wrongly! Sorry for the long post!
while i hate seeing rashford injured and forced to miss time due to surgery, this actually might be a blessing in disguise. He needed a break after playing so many matches that you could see he was burning out a bit in the second half of the season. hopefully this will allow him to recharge a bit and come back in october with a real push to getting himself back into top form and being one of the best players in england.
If you feel the need to begin any of your posts with “I will probably get attacked for it” then don’t write anything at all. No need to play the victim’s card, it really never comes across well.
If you write something negative about a player then be prepared to react/argue when called out on it without displaying a victim mentality.
Same way if you write something positive about a player, be prepared that not everyone shares the same positive feeling.
But starting anything with “I will probably get attacked for it” just sends the message: “I know my post will cause discussions but actually I am not willing to listen to them, poor me, I have such a great and reasonable opinion and I will share it with everyone, but other evil people on redcafe are going to attack me …”
If you write something negative about a player then be prepared to react/argue when called out on it without displaying a victim mentality.
Same way if you write something positive about a player, be prepared that not everyone shares the same positive feeling.
But starting anything with “I will probably get attacked for it” just sends the message: “I know my post will cause discussions but actually I am not willing to listen to them, poor me, I have such a great and reasonable opinion and I will share it with everyone, but other evil people on redcafe are going to attack me …”
I can’t believe he missed his penalty, still. He had been so cold in the shootout vs Colombia and in that win over PSG.
Rest up king. Rashy revenge tour incoming.
Rest up king. Rashy revenge tour incoming.
It's Kelly Hogarth of ROC Nation who writes all of his stuff
Thats not what I was implying at all. I dont care if Im attacked for my opinion and if I did, as you say, I wouldnt post it. However I have seen how opinions, posts and words are twisted by people often with a "so what you're saying is" and then going on to say something else.
If you look at the context of where I said "I will probably get attacked for this...." it is because I was partially agreeing with a poster that everyone seems to be disagreeing with and who has been attacked fairly consistently for one reason or another.
wtf I just read
Well we will see if having the surgery moves him on to be an elite player. Its best to get it out of the way now than have even bigger problems later on or next season.
A load of shit