Andreas Pereira - SIGNED FOR FULHAM

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Ali Dia

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That's the thing about nurturing young talent. Ruthless is probably the polar opposite of what you should be doing if actually want to have academy superstars. Kids have fragile minds, they are inconsistent, even the most talented of them (we have the recent examples of Rashford and Greenwood). I doubt that we would have seen McTominay, Williams or Tuanzebe get more than a couple of starts before being sold if they were at Chelsea, for example. Maybe they would have had a couple of loans and then being sold without actually stepping foot wearing the United's first team jersey.

Addressing the Williams example: the thing you need to consider is what you are giving up and what you could be getting. You think there is a club that will pay £15m for him. I personally don't think so, especially in this climate, but let's ignore that. Ok, you have £15m now (if we assume we keep 100% of the transfer fee). Who do you buy that will give you better value for that money? Also, consider that Williams is on very low wages right now and every incoming RB (that can play LB too) will demand way more to begin with. They would also need to adapt and perform better because otherwise what's the point?

People talk about being ruthless but don't appear to demonstrate any business savvy. Just to illustrate: £80k/week = £320k/month = £3.84m/year = £15.36m for 4 years. And that's not even considering other costs like bonuses and other contractual clauses. Plus he is young, has potential to grow and is an academy graduate.
The kind of business acumen that has us in and out of the CL spots every second season with one of the highest wage bills in the game all while retaining almost useless players to the kind of deals they wouldn’t get anywhere else?

I’m fully aware Williams is the much cheaper option for the glazers medium term but what does he actually offer the team in that time? he doesn’t push the quality of the squad or competition for places and he doesn’t play so he doesn’t learn so the only reason he’s still here after X years is through initially cutting costs we’ve ended up missing out on much better players in his position and overpaying him relative to his actual ability and market value and we lose out longer term when no other team will match the wages with any kind of decent transfer fee.

There’s no harming the brand in selling academy players at 20. If they’ve graduated and you gave them pro contracts, worldwide exposure and a few games in the shop window. If you are selling them to a lower club that will keep playing them then you’ve absolutely done your job. I think our players would rather that than be sat like Tuanzebe or Williams stagnating (and depreciating) this season. Barca and Real sell what they don’t use to fund deals for world class potential players. They regularly sell better players than Williams and Tuanzebe will ever be. That’s the true standard we are up against at the very top of the game. We hold onto all of our players for that bit too long and give them one more deal than they deserve to cut costs.

I imagine the DOF is going to help de clutter the glut of fringe talent for lack of a better word. With the amount of players we are buying these days for youth level we are almost certainly going to have to modify our approach sooner or later.
 
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The kind of business acumen that has us in and out of the CL spots every second season with one of the highest wage bills in the game all while retaining almost useless players to the kind of deals they wouldn’t get anywhere else?

I’m fully aware Williams is the much cheaper option for the glazers medium term but what does he actually offer the team in that time? he doesn’t push the quality of the squad or competition for places and he doesn’t play so he doesn’t learn so the only reason he’s still here after X years is through initially cutting costs we’ve ended up missing out on much better players in his position and overpaying him relative to his actual ability and market value and we lose out longer term when no other team will match the wages with any kind of decent transfer fee.

There’s no harming the brand in selling academy players at 20. If they’ve graduated and you gave them pro contracts, worldwide exposure and a few games in the shop window. If you are selling them to a lower club that will keep playing them then you’ve absolutely done your job. I think our players would rather that than be sat like Tuanzebe or Williams stagnating (and depreciating) this season. Barca and Real sell what they don’t use to fund deals for world class potential players. They regularly sell better players than Williams and Tuanzebe will ever be. That’s the true standard we are up against at the very top of the game. We hold onto all of our players for that bit too long and give them one more deal than they deserve to cut costs.

I imagine the DOF is going to help de clutter the glut of fringe talent for lack of a better word. With the amount of players we are buying these days for youth level we are almost certainly going to have to modify our approach sooner or later.
there aren’t many players that we have kept too long though.

if we were ‘ruthless’ then we would have got rid of McT and Fletcher who became important fort team players. Even Lingard. He’s come to the end of the road now - but this is a lad who made good contributions, inc scoring in a cup final.

academy players are inexpensive, less risk than signings, and have the club culture ingrained into them.

Most won’t make it, but many will make valuable contributions on their journey. Players like Cleverly did a job for us - and then moved on. Without players like this we need to go out and spend £10-30m on average squad players.

Andreas has been here too long - but if it wasn’t for the pandemic, I’m sure he would have left permanently last summer.

Tuanzebe was in line to play a lot more 2 years ago, then got injured after a good loan at villa. He’s been unlucky.

Williams has a very good breakthrough season. And followed up with a difficult second season - chances were few because of Telles, a great season from Shaw, and AWB’s brilliant fitness. However - he was still there if needed for depth. If we didn’t have Williams last season, we had no other RB. He allowed Dalot to go on loan with a view to securing a move.

academy players are an incredibly valuable resource and are needed for depth. The alternative? Average players brought in for fees and bigger wages. That doesn’t seem sensible.
 

georgipep

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The kind of business acumen that has us in and out of the CL spots every second season with one of the highest wage bills in the game all while retaining almost useless players to the kind of deals they wouldn’t get anywhere else?

I’m fully aware Williams is the much cheaper option for the glazers medium term but what does he actually offer the team in that time? he doesn’t push the quality of the squad or competition for places and he doesn’t play so he doesn’t learn so the only reason he’s still here after X years is through initially cutting costs we’ve ended up missing out on much better players in his position and overpaying him relative to his actual ability and market value and we lose out longer term when no other team will match the wages with any kind of decent transfer fee.

There’s no harming the brand in selling academy players at 20. If they’ve graduated and you gave them pro contracts, worldwide exposure and a few games in the shop window. If you are selling them to a lower club that will keep playing them then you’ve absolutely done your job. I think our players would rather that than be sat like Tuanzebe or Williams stagnating (and depreciating) this season. Barca and Real sell what they don’t use to fund deals for world class potential players. They regularly sell better players than Williams and Tuanzebe will ever be. That’s the true standard we are up against at the very top of the game. We hold onto all of our players for that bit too long and give them one more deal than they deserve to cut costs.

I imagine the DOF is going to help de clutter the glut of fringe talent for lack of a better word. With the amount of players we are buying these days for youth level we are almost certainly going to have to modify our approach sooner or later.
Are you honestly giving Real and Barcelona as example of prudent business savvy? They are both on the verge of bankruptcy and have been bail out multiple times.
 

Ali Dia

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Are you honestly giving Real and Barcelona as example of prudent business savvy? They are both on the verge of bankruptcy and have been bail out multiple times.
They have pushed their academy players out around the top divisions for really good fees with buy backs. It’s a win win for them. They’ve also kept the absolute cream of the crop to devastating effect. What they did with that money has nothing to with us. We don’t have to make the same mistakes. I don’t think it’s a good plan to hold onto Darren Gibson or Williams or whoever into their mid to late 20s even as squad players just because they are cheap. Ideally what you’d have at a massive club like ours is players like Hannibal Elanga Amad Garner and Laird now making up the squad for the next season or two and selling the ones that don’t quite look like making it at 21/22.

@ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg I’d say fletcher McT and players like that (and possibly Williams was a bad example in the first place) can provide some value to the club if the manager fancies their determination and work rate etc. I still think we could streamline the process somewhat though
 
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I watched him here at the U20 WC for Brazil and he was amazing, I thought we had bought a pretty special talent for the future. It just never happened though.
What the goal in the video doesnt show you was the dribbling moments before the goal on the left wing.
i agree. Its sad really. He and Adnan J are my two biggest disappointments from our youth set up
 

Sultan

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Loan him to West Ham or a similar club in the Premiership.

He looked on par with Jesse when they were consistently picked for United. Maybe another club can rejuvenate his career and can then be sold for a good fee.
 

davidmichael

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I don’t get why we can’t sell players ? Make it clear that Pereira is available but only on a permanent deal and set the price at between £7 million and £10 million, you see players in The Championship go for that, offer him around to every club in Spain and Italy as he clearly has no future for us.
 

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Apparently about to go on loan to Flamengo, until next june. Brazilian media are saying United & Flamengo have agreed terms, and all that remains is signing the documents.
Pereira is 'desperate' to play regularly to have a chance at getting into the Brazilian national squad for the World Cup.

He'll have plenty of competition at Flamengo too, they're a solid side, but Ribeiro is getting old, and de Arrascaeta are among several players with interest from abroad. There's less competition if they play him in central midfield. Also, Brazilian teams can play up to 77 games a season, so there should be plenty of opporunity.
 

Rojofiam

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Apparently about to go on loan to Flamengo, until next june. Brazilian media are saying United & Flamengo have agreed terms, and all that remains is signing the documents.
Pereira is 'desperate' to play regularly to have a chance at getting into the Brazilian national squad for the World Cup.

He'll have plenty of competition at Flamengo too, they're a solid side, but Ribeiro is getting old, and de Arrascaeta are among several players with interest from abroad. There's less competition if they play him in central midfield. Also, Brazilian teams can play up to 77 games a season, so there should be plenty of opporunity.
If he was desperate to play regularly, then he'd accept lower wages in a Serie A / La Liga club
 

acnumber9

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At some stage we’ll have to realise that nobody will pay more than about £5m for him. Probably when his contract expires.
 

#07

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Another one who should never have been given a new contract. We've wasted millions on his wages without need.

Good luck to him. Its not personal. I hope he goes to Flamengo and enjoys his football. Its just been clear for years that we needed to move him on.
 

tomaldinho1

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I think just keep him if he’s happy to stay as a squad option. He’s academy grown and isn’t terrible, I doubt he’s on huge money. Big squads win things.
 

Ali Dia

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He was one of the best young players in the world at one stage. There’s still something there with him but he needs 100 games as a starter to figure out what he is and what he has to offer in the senior game. What’s his niche. Midfield is the hardest position. I could see him coming back with Porto or Benfica or someone like that in a few years and getting one last move to a big club. It’s beyond him to be a starter at a big club currently.
 

Pickle85

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He was one of the best young players in the world at one stage. There’s still something there with him but he needs 100 games as a starter to figure out what he is and what he has to offer in the senior game. What’s his niche.
Was he?! In the world?!
 

hungrywing

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Apparently about to go on loan to Flamengo, until next june. Brazilian media are saying United & Flamengo have agreed terms, and all that remains is signing the documents.
Pereira is 'desperate' to play regularly to have a chance at getting into the Brazilian national squad for the World Cup.

He'll have plenty of competition at Flamengo too, they're a solid side, but Ribeiro is getting old, and de Arrascaeta are among several players with interest from abroad. There's less competition if they play him in central midfield. Also, Brazilian teams can play up to 77 games a season, so there should be plenty of opporunity.
Damn, _______son.

Also, more power to him if he’s turned down some ‘better’ clubs in Europe to be closer to family.
 

Pickle85

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Supposedly so. Brazil and Belgium vying to get him for their NTs. He was a proper prospect
Blimey. Just goes to show how misleading someone pulling ahead that young can be. Not that he's a terrible player obviously, just nowhere close to that good.
 

Judas

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I think just keep him if he’s happy to stay as a squad option. He’s academy grown and isn’t terrible, I doubt he’s on huge money. Big squads win things.
No thank you. He's not good enough to be a squad option, why have him on the bench blocking the path of actual academy talents who could potentially be first team regulars who are vastly more promising?

He's a dead weight and isn't good enough to play for us. He's had his chance, didn't make the grade. Having him in our squad isn't going to help us be successful.

Some in here forget just how sad it was watching him play for us week in week out. One of the most average players to be a Utd regular in years, comfortably worse than Lindelof. And I rated Andreas massively when he was a nipper! He just failed to make the step up, wasn't the first won't be the last. No offence to the lad, but seeing him play for us makes me sad.

In short; no xx
 

united_99

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Brazil NT? I know the current bunch are nowhere close to the level of some of Brazil’s past great squads, but surely they will have 23-26 players better than Andreas P. for their World Cup squad?!
 

Gandalf

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Brazil NT? I know the current bunch are nowhere close to the level of some of Brazil’s past great squads, but surely they will have 23-26 players better than Andreas P. for their World Cup squad?!
They have capped him already so it is not beyond the realm of possibilities but he will need to tear it up at Flamengo to get back in the frame.
 

onemanarmy

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Brazil NT? I know the current bunch are nowhere close to the level of some of Brazil’s past great squads, but surely they will have 23-26 players better than Andreas P. for their World Cup squad?!
Belgium and Brazil were fighting for him couple of years ago.
 

Robertd0803

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Doesnt look this loan does much for us other than literally freeing up a place in the squad if the figures reported are correct. Unless hes moving back for family reasons it looks like hes given up hope of becoming a mainstay in a European team for a while at least.
 

MadDogg

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Some in here forget just how sad it was watching him play for us week in week out. One of the most average players to be a Utd regular in years, comfortably worse than Lindelof. And I rated Andreas massively when he was a nipper! He just failed to make the step up, wasn't the first won't be the last. No offence to the lad, but seeing him play for us makes me sad.
He was decent in the first half of 19/20 when he was being played on the right or #10. People forget about it now, but he was rightfully being picked ahead of Lingard and Mata as he was outperforming them and the team as a whole was playing better with him in there. Of course, Lingard was in career-worst form and Mata was struggling badly, so playing better than them wasn't exactly a huge deal. And Pereira obviously wasn't playing well enough that he should have been starting for us, but (unlike the other two) at least he was performing at a decent squad-player level. Unfortunately that's the best he ever played for us though.

A lot of people seem to remember his absolutely terrible matches that season where he was being played in central midfield when we had an injury crisis (and he was terrible :lol: ), but that's a bit unfair to him IMO.
 

jderbyshire

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Feels like he's given up on European football.

Surely he'd be a regular for a mid-table French team, at least?
 

NYAS

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Apparently about to go on loan to Flamengo, until next june. Brazilian media are saying United & Flamengo have agreed terms, and all that remains is signing the documents.
Pereira is 'desperate' to play regularly to have a chance at getting into the Brazilian national squad for the World Cup.

He'll have plenty of competition at Flamengo too, they're a solid side, but Ribeiro is getting old, and de Arrascaeta are among several players with interest from abroad. There's less competition if they play him in central midfield. Also, Brazilian teams can play up to 77 games a season, so there should be plenty of opporunity.
There’s no chance he’s going to play in that front 4. He’ll share time with Diego in that CM spot alongside Arao.
 

SATA

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So now there is no loan fee and they are still only paying a percentage of his salary. We should have offered to release him on a free

Like feck they would take up that buy option even if he tears it up there :lol: It's just for show
 

roonster09

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So now there is no loan fee and they are still only paying a percentage of his salary. We should have offered to release him on a free

Not sure what's the point of loaning him to clubs who don't spend that much money and then keep the clause that high.

This is one more wasted year, he will be back at Manutd next season.
 

ash_86

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Why not keep the buyout clause at 10m so that they would atleast think about it? he'd have 6 months left after the loan and no one is gonna touch him for anything more.
 

lysglimt

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So now there is no loan fee and they are still only paying a percentage of his salary. We should have offered to release him on a free

Now, why would we do that ? And even better - why would Andreas agree to that ? That is a lose-lose for both parties. We only lose a little bit on his wages this season and can still get £11 million for him next season. If we release him on a free we have to pay him out of his contract which will cost us a few million, and Andreas will have to accept a huge wage-cut in his next job.
 

dove

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I don't know what we expect from this loan. He will be completely forgotten in Brazil and there is absolutely no way they are gonna pay €20m for him. Maybe it's what Perreira himself wanted the most but it's not good for the club IMO. Surely there were clubs in Europe interested in taking him on loan...
 

Uniquim

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TNT Sports are saying there's a €1m fee for the loan, and the wage % paid by Flamengo will be 60%.
Pereira is in Brazil with his father & rep. Should be announced fairly soon. Flamengo hoping to have him ready for the Grêmio game on the 25th.
 
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