That would be great.
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amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
I don't see why. A manager will play footballers he trusts. If they perform really badly - and he's been really really bad - they won't feel inclined to start them or bring them on.I find your posts baffling I have to say.
Desert Eagle
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No he hasn't. He hasn't been given a chance.I don't see why. A manager will play footballers he trusts. If they perform really badly - and he's been really really bad - they won't feel inclined to start them or bring them on.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
So he hasn't made any appearances for us.No he hasn't. He hasn't been given a chance.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
We should have loaned him out
Desert Eagle
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This has been done to death so I'll just repeat what i posted in last years DVB thread:So he hasn't made any appearances for us.
As of april 10th 2021:
VDB stats are 1,130 minutes in which he's played over 40 minutes 3 times and 90 minutes once.
100 plus appearances for a top club and country, moves for a big fee and with a month to go in the season has been given 40 plus minutes 3 times.
It is pretty much unheard of in club football.
VanDeBank
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I never rated him much at Ajax, but I still don't know if he's good enough, because he hasn't played, despite his start for us being quite promising (Luton, Palace, Instanbul).
Why is everyone who's baffled a Donny fan and why isn't everyone baffled a 35-40m signing isn't being used?
There's also no reason to believe he'd be any worse in the pivot than the shit we saw yesterday.
Why is everyone who's baffled a Donny fan and why isn't everyone baffled a 35-40m signing isn't being used?
There's no reason why Ole can't bring on VDB alongside Bruno when the opposition team is already making defensive subs and parking the bus.Nobody is getting minutes at #10 with Bruno here. He plays every game.
....snip...
Ole putting on an injured McTominay instead of VDB is not a good sign for him, though. Ole said yesterday that VDB has an important part to play, but his usage of him isn't showing that at all. After the shitshow yesterday, he might actually get a start.
There's also no reason to believe he'd be any worse in the pivot than the shit we saw yesterday.
Look at you, Caf member thinks he knows better than the manager. You don't see him in training! He must be shit, or else he would play. Ole wants to win right!?This has been done to death so I'll just repeat what i posted in last years DVB thread:
As of april 10th 2021:
VDB stats are 1,130 minutes in which he's played over 40 minutes 3 times and 90 minutes once.
100 plus appearances for a top club and country, moves for a big fee and with a month to go in the season has been given 40 plus minutes 3 times.
It is pretty much unheard of in club football.
Frank Grimes
Full Member
Never known a transfer like this one. It's like the manager actively wants him to fail. Definitely the strangest episode transfer wise in all my time following Manchester United.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
The problem is that you think that Ole has to play him for you to form an opinion, which he does not. He sees the same shambles of a footballer week in week out on the training field that we've seen for 1,130 (it's not that small a sample size, footballers can look competent in cameos too), that we've seen in actual matches, and doesn't want to actively shoot himself in the foot by playing him. I myself don't have faith in Ole but on this one, can't help with siding with him (on the playing time but not the signing).This has been done to death so I'll just repeat what i posted in last years DVB thread:
As of april 10th 2021:
VDB stats are 1,130 minutes in which he's played over 40 minutes 3 times and 90 minutes once.
100 plus appearances for a top club and country, moves for a big fee and with a month to go in the season has been given 40 plus minutes 3 times.
It is pretty much unheard of in club football.
Son
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I’m pretty sure the guy is a better footballer than McTomminay the few times I’ve had the chance to see him play tbh.I never rated him much at Ajax, but I still don't know if he's good enough, because he hasn't played, despite his start for us being quite promising (Luton, Palace, Instanbul).
Why is everyone who's baffled a Donny fan and why isn't everyone baffled a 35-40m signing isn't being used?
There's no reason why Ole can't bring on VDB alongside Bruno when the opposition team is already making defensive subs and parking the bus.
There's also no reason to believe he'd be any worse in the pivot than the shit we saw yesterday.
Look at you, Caf member thinks he knows better than the manager. You don't see him in training! He must be shit, or else he would play. Ole wants to win right!?
If McT gets games for us you can bet your money VDB is good enough for our side.
The manager is the problem here though. Should never have bought him if he was just going to throw him to the side.
Funnily enough I’d argue our manager and coaching staff should be on the chopping block this season before Donny given their form and losing that Europa League final against such a poor side. Our points tally was bang average too in the league.
Bebestation
Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
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Do you agree with this on McFred being our best midfield possible?The problem is that you think that Ole has to play him for you to form an opinion, which he does not. He sees the same shambles of a footballer week in week out on the training field that we've seen for 1,130 (it's not that small a sample size, footballers can look competent in cameos too), that we've seen in actual matches, and doesn't want to actively shoot himself in the foot by playing him. I myself don't have faith in Ole but on this one, can't help with siding with him (on the playing time but not the signing).
Desert Eagle
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Right the same shambles of a footballer that he chose to buy for 40 million after watching him for way more than 1000 minutes. No central midfielder can look competent in cameos, getting 10/15 minutes at the end of games. Just like Pexbo in the other thread you are assuming it's related to performances in training when it could be because of a number of different reasons.The problem is that you think that Ole has to play him for you to form an opinion, which he does not. He sees the same shambles of a footballer week in week out on the training field that we've seen for 1,130 (it's not that small a sample size, footballers can look competent in cameos too), that we've seen in actual matches, and doesn't want to actively shoot himself in the foot by playing him. I myself don't have faith in Ole but on this one, can't help with siding with him (on the playing time but not the signing).
Escobar
Shameless Musketeer
Play him. Our other options are obviously not working out
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Okay then why can't those be legitimate and the players' own fault? I agree that it's a shit signing, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that Ole is denying a quality player deserving minutes.Right the same shambles of a footballer that he chose to buy for 40 million after watching him for way more than 1000 minutes. No central midfielder can look competent in cameos, getting 10/15 minutes at the end of games. Just like Pexbo in the other thread you are assuming it's related to performances in training when it could be because of a number of different reasons.
Desert Eagle
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They could be but they could also be something else. That's why people look at his career before joining us for more information. Was he a quality player for Ajax and Holland? Most would say yes, that's why Ole signed him presumably.Okay then why can't those be legitimate and the players' own fault? I agree that it's a shit signing, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that Ole is denying a quality player deserving minutes.
sugar_kane
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Similar happened with Mkhitaryan and to an extent Fred & Lindelof. What's unusual here is that Mourinho has made a career of pulling shit like that.Never known a transfer like this one. It's like the manager actively wants him to fail. Definitely the strangest episode transfer wise in all my time following Manchester United.
All said, we're two games into the season. His minutes will come provided the coaching staff think he is ready.
I do think there is something in the theory that he wasn't Ole's first choice, I actually think we wanted Grealish and settled for Donny, but settling for a player who isn't your first choice happens all the time in the transfer world.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Seems you're looking for a reason to defend him/blame our team selection. Usually, these things are based on merit. Why would we actively choose to treat him badly and ruin his career, and also hurt the team's chances of success by apparently ignoring this champion footballer ? And do we give this treatment to any other player? I understand fans being upset at a player who shows his quality when coming on but doesn't get enough chances. But VDB looks hopeless whenever he plays and the presumption that this is his level in training is only logical rather than assuming there is some agenda against him.They could be but they could also be something else. That's why people look at his career before joining us for more information. Was he a quality player for Ajax and Holland? Most would say yes, that's why Ole signed him presumably.
pratyush_utd
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That is bit harsh on VDB. He has looked decent in few games he has played. The bar to get in our midfield isn't that high anyway. Matic on his last leg is getting games.Seems you're looking for a reason to defend him/blame our team selection. Usually, these things are based on merit. Why would we actively choose to treat him badly and ruin his career, and also hurt the team's chances of success by apparently ignoring this champion footballer ? And do we give this treatment to any other player? I understand fans being upset at a player who shows his quality when coming on but doesn't get enough chances. But VDB looks hopeless whenever he plays and the presumption that this is his level in training is only logical rather than assuming there is some agenda against him.
The criticism of Ole in this case is mainly because we don't know where to play him after 1 full season. There was a debate even before we signed him about his position and you would think before spending 40m on a player we would know how to use him. Season is only 2 games old so I am not that bothered that he isn't getting games but we need to identify his role quickly or we should move him on and cut our losses.
Desert Eagle
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It is one of the weirdest situations of all time, with no comparison in world football i can think of let alone at united. That by itself is enough to spark questions. I do think it follows a pattern of what Ole appreciates in a footballer. Look at the likes of Maguire, James, AWB, Mctominay. Low technical ability but they are "physical" and "hustle". I think it shows Ole is not able to adjust his system or tactics to accommodate DVB. I've never said he is a champion footballer or that he should start every game or anything like that. He might be crap like you all are saying however the facts are he has not been given a fair chance and nobody except Ole knows why.Seems you're looking for a reason to defend him/blame our team selection. Usually, these things are based on merit. Why would we actively choose to treat him badly and ruin his career, and also hurt the team's chances of success by apparently ignoring this champion footballer ? And do we give this treatment to any other player? I understand fans being upset at a player who shows his quality when coming on but doesn't get enough chances. But VDB looks hopeless whenever he plays and the presumption that this is his level in training is only logical rather than assuming there is some agenda against him.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
I'd argue that Maguire does have ability on the ball but for me it's not just Ole it's the club and every manager we've had post SAF (barring LVG but he was crap in the market). We don't add midfielders who can actually pass the ball and be the brains in the middle. Obsession with effort and counter attacking has let to a pool of players in midfield who can't pass the ball longer than 5 yards. Imagine having a first choice midfield duo who are incapable of switching play to the opposite flank. Fred had ample time and space yesterday and I knew he'd miss. Personally, I don't think VDB is the answer as he's a goalscoring in the right place at the right time attacking midfielder, and wish we had signed a proper passing CM instead. But I agree that Ole has not prioritised possession play - 3 years was enough time to do so (AWB and James type signings do not help us get there) and I see no real shift in our play in that direction.It is one of the weirdest situations of all time, with no comparison in world football i can think of let alone at united. That by itself is enough to spark questions. I do think it follows a pattern of what Ole appreciates in a footballer. Look at the likes of Maguire, James, AWB, Mctominay. Low technical ability but they are "physical" and "hustle". I think it shows Ole is not able to adjust his system or tactics to accommodate DVB. I've never said he is a champion footballer or that he should start every game or anything like that. He might be crap like you all are saying however the facts are he has not been given a fair chance and nobody except Ole knows why.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
He really hasn't. Not for me at least. The bar is low and he has been well below it.That is bit harsh on VDB. He has looked decent in few games he has played. The bar to get in our midfield isn't that high anyway. Matic on his last leg is getting games.
The criticism of Ole in this case is mainly because we don't know where to play him after 1 full season. There was a debate even before we signed him about his position and you would think before spending 40m on a player we would know how to use him. Season is only 2 games old so I am not that bothered that he isn't getting games but we need to identify his role quickly or we should move him on and cut our losses.
Desert Eagle
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I think he's more of a Gundogan type player. An all rounder that fits in a well drilled system. Anyways I hope to see more of him this season to make it clear if he can succeed here or not. Others might have already cast him off as a definite failure and that's fine.I'd argue that Maguire does have ability on the ball but for me it's not just Ole it's the club and every manager we've had post SAF (barring LVG but he was crap in the market). We don't add midfielders who can actually pass the ball and be the brains in the middle. Obsession with effort and counter attacking has let to a pool of players in midfield who can't pass the ball longer than 5 yards. Imagine having a first choice midfield duo who are incapable of switching play to the opposite flank. Fred had ample time and space yesterday and I knew he'd miss. Personally, I don't think VDB is the answer as he's a goalscoring in the right place at the right time attacking midfielder, and wish we had signed a proper passing CM instead. But I agree that Ole has not prioritised possession play - 3 years was enough time to do so (AWB and James type signings do not help us get there) and I see no real shift in our play in that direction.
Hackman2210
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Absolutely breaks my heart to see him on the bench week after week. He's always putting a brave face on and trying to summon a smile. We should let him go out on loan or sell him - I almost feel we are contravening the human rights laws by keeping him. At this point hes just a very well paid slave........#freedonny
tomaldinho1
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Genuinely is so bizarre.This has been done to death so I'll just repeat what i posted in last years DVB thread:
As of april 10th 2021:
VDB stats are 1,130 minutes in which he's played over 40 minutes 3 times and 90 minutes once.
100 plus appearances for a top club and country, moves for a big fee and with a month to go in the season has been given 40 plus minutes 3 times.
It is pretty much unheard of in club football.
talking robot
Full Member
Agree. Just play the guy. Maybe Ole is worried about his defensive solidity, and will play him more once Varane is integrated into the team.Play him. Our other options are obviously not working out
VanDeBank
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VDB being shit in training is such a poor argument, because it can never be verified by any of us and there is zero evidence for it.Seems you're looking for a reason to defend him/blame our team selection. Usually, these things are based on merit. Why would we actively choose to treat him badly and ruin his career, and also hurt the team's chances of success by apparently ignoring this champion footballer ? And do we give this treatment to any other player? I understand fans being upset at a player who shows his quality when coming on but doesn't get enough chances. But VDB looks hopeless whenever he plays and the presumption that this is his level in training is only logical rather than assuming there is some agenda against him.
It's also highly unlikely given the fact that he was Holland's top scorer during the international breaks last year, scoring goals against Spain and Italy as a starter in October and playing well as an impact sub in the last international break with another goal. He was the second highest rated on the pitch behind F. De Jong in Italy vs Holland.
And again, just because I'm baffled doesn't mean I think he's "a champion footballer". I do not rate him, but that's different than pretending he's totally incompetent.
If the argument is he hasn't shown it in a United shirt, that's certainly true, but he's never had 2 consecutive starts in his time here. This is completely unprecedented for a 40m signing that isn't permanently injured.
Escobar
Shameless Musketeer
I doubt it. Ole prefers playing what he knows even when it is clearly not workingAgree. Just play the guy. Maybe Ole is worried about his defensive solidity, and will play him more once Varane is integrated into the team.
BrilliantOrange
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Its quite simple right..
If Lingard is the AM you bring in when you need a goal and is he has Matic Fred and McTom in front of him for the double pivot.. He should move on..
If Lingard is the AM you bring in when you need a goal and is he has Matic Fred and McTom in front of him for the double pivot.. He should move on..
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Given he's been shit in his first team appearances it's the only logical view given the opposing view has no evidence supporting it either.VDB being shit in training is such a poor argument, because it can never be verified by any of us and there is zero evidence for it.
"He's crap for the first team but much better I training because of that game I saw him play for a different club in a different competition". That definitely checks out as a sound viewpoint.
Tom Van Persie
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Giggsyking
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If I was him, I would leave. I cant trust a manager like Ole who is obviously a noob.
DavelinaJolie
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What is it they say in the NFL? The back up quarterback is the most popular guy on a losing team.
I didn't see anything from him last season, the game was constantly happening around him. Maybe that's a lack of time on the field, but I have to think there's more to this.
I didn't see anything from him last season, the game was constantly happening around him. Maybe that's a lack of time on the field, but I have to think there's more to this.
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This must surely be a rhetorical question, it's obvious he does.Do you agree with this on McFred being our best midfield possible?
Tom Cato
Godt nyttår!
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Bruno Fernandes isn't working out? That's his competition.Play him. Our other options are obviously not working out
VanDeBank
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No it's not. Ole not rating him is a much more likely and logical explanation.Given he's been shit in his first team appearances it's the only logical view
That's not how evidence works. If I claim there's a giant skippyball heading towards you, looking to crush you and your house, it's on me to provide evidence, not you.given the opposing view has no evidence supporting it either.
That's a straw man. I said it's unlikely he's terrible in training, given that at the same time his performances were shit for us, he looked a different player entirely during the international breaks for the Netherlands. It's still up to you to provide evidence he's crap in training."He's crap for the first team but much better I training because of that game I saw him play for a different club in a different competition". That definitely checks out as a sound viewpoint.
It's literally impossible to be the second highest rated player on the pitch during Italy vs Netherlands (you're aware those sides are stacked with world class players?) and somehow be so incompetent in training that Ole doesn't trust him to come on while we're leading 5-1.
He's been crap for the first team because he's never had consecutive appearances. He was quite decent when he first joined and had some form (Luton, Palace, Istanbul). Meaning his insane dip in form has to do with him not playing consistently (like Scholes said), especially when at the same time he's shit for us, he's useful for Holland.
amolbhatia50k
Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Yes based on his performance in training and matchdays not his performance in bed.No it's not. Ole not rating him is a much more likely and logical explanation.
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Maybe when Varane comes in, we can actually switch to only 1 holder and he can play just behind Bruno?
VanDeBank
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If you're saying he's so shit in training, Ole's correct to not to play him then surely Ole should receive even more blame for not seeing how shit he was before he approved the signing?Yes based on his performance in training and matchdays not his performance in bed.
Ole maybe thinking he's in poor in training (of which you have no evidence) and that actually being the case are two different things. Ole's opinion is subjective and he isn't infallible. Again, I don't rate Donny. There were 4 Ajax players I'd much rather we have went for. But I'm baffled you're not baffled at VDB's lack of minutes and are making unverifiable claims to justify it.
It's ridiculous if you believe one can be utter shit in training, then be the second highest rated player in Italy - Netherlands less than a week later. Do you seriously believe a player that's performing worse than Matic in training is capable of outperforming Wijnaldum, Verrati, Spinazola, Van Dijk, etc?
A more likely explanation is, Ole is either testing VDB, to see if he hands in a transfer request, or he actually wants him to do so, because there's no reason why else you wouldn't put on VDB for 25 minutes against Leeds in a won game, instead of a long past it and declining Matic.
JoaquinJoaquin
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For me the only 2 explanations are, that rather he has arrived and Ole has completely changed his opinion on him based on what he has seen in training and matches, OR he wasn't an Ole signing. Otherwise it is just badly mismanaged if you sign a player that you never intend to play.Never known a transfer like this one. It's like the manager actively wants him to fail. Definitely the strangest episode transfer wise in all my time following Manchester United.
Just say Pogba was to leave next Summer, if the plan was for Donny to become the starter after that in some capacity, there is zero chance of that happening now unless it's through Glazernomics.
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