Criticism is fine (and encouraged) but there are some criticisms thrown at Ole that don't make any sense

FreakyJim · Aug 31, 2021

Golden Nugget said:
Brilliant post. Agree on all your points - the constant nagging, whining makes this forum unbearable at times.

We’ve had our world class managers; the master tacticians - how did that turn out? LVG made it to the point where I almost stopped watching football. Jose wasn’t much better. I actually look forward to the games and enjoy watching them now.

This. Except for the point that it was happening last season too. I recall the game where United bet City, go into the Ole thread and there’s a small minority wanting Ole out, after a derby win. I just don’t understand some people

Both terribly past it managers, absolute dinosaurs.

Both terrible examples.

We haven't had a modern manager to make a comparison. Ole is just a younger Mourinho (in terms of playstyle, not trophies), basically. His preference in players is better, his demeanor is positive - which is great but that's about it.

MikeUpNorth · Aug 31, 2021

My question about Ole is can he get the team to deliver when the chips are down in those semifinals and finals.

It’s fine margins but I just don’t think Mourinho or Van Gaal lose a final against Villarreal. It just wouldn’t happen. Moyes would probably lose it.

If he can get the team over the line to win a trophy or two, then I think we might have a good manager on our hands. I think he can do it.

hobbers · Aug 31, 2021

Golden Nugget said:
We’ve had our world class managers; the master tacticians - how did that turn out?

One of the most overused and abysmal arguments every made on the caf re managers.

pascell · Aug 31, 2021

Mickeza said:
Can we add an extra one for the cnuts moaning about ‘only’ signing Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo after 18 months with no crowd revenue and how it’s a disgrace and embarrassing that we haven’t signed another CM (it doesn’t matter what CM - they go from player thread to player thread screaming for a new toy) to add to the 5 already at the club who cost £220m combined? Sancho was last years money though - Jesus wept. fecking children.

Someone's triggered, just chill and accept we've come up short in the transfer window.

Achilles McCool · Aug 31, 2021

Andrew7582 said:
If Ole decides that those are the coaches he wants by his side coaching the players on the training ground then that is a problem with the manager. If they aren't doing what Ole wants them to do, or are not producing the right results why hasn't he replaced them by now entering his 4th season in the job, doesn't make sense. Debating if the coaches are good enough is pointless, they are there because Ole thinks they are doing a good job so if they are not good enough it's a problem with the manager and his poor judgement in keeping them around.

Fair point(s)

Withnail · Aug 31, 2021

pascell said:
Someone's triggered, just chill and accept we've come up short in the transfer window.

Is this based on your contention that we've broken even this window?

pascell · Aug 31, 2021

Withnail said:
Is this based on your contention that we've broken even this window?

bond19821982 · Aug 31, 2021

Great ,just what we needed . Another Ole thread. Will start another thread " why Ole shouldn't be managing us " when we lose .

Am I doing this right?

UpWithRivers · Aug 31, 2021

This exactly highlights the endless debates. Lets take Ole is inept tactically. Compared to who? Some people are comparing him to Sir Alex, Pep, Guadiola, Touchel etc and saying yes he inept tactically. Can you argue with that? Is he at that level? No. Others are comparing him with the last 6 years and Mourinho, Van Gal and Moyes and his record compared to that lot. In that case yes he is doing alright and he won against Pep a few times so tactically yes he was not inept on those occasions.

So the question is do you judge Ole based on the highest levels i.e. against the best managers and winning trophies over the course of 3 seasons and even his CV prior to United. Or do base it on the fact that he has improved the team slightly, got good harmony, sold some trash players and got some good results. Both are true depending how you look at it. You can do this with all the points in the op

Eli Zee · Aug 31, 2021

I think if we don't play with any style or system this season, we need new coaches and/or manager. Ole is great at recruitment, but I think his tactical side is lacking for someone managing the "greatest" club in the world.

Golden Nugget · Aug 31, 2021

FreakyJim said:
Both terribly past it managers, absolute dinosaurs.

Both terrible examples.

We haven't had a modern manager to make a comparison. Ole is just younger Mourinho, basically. His preference in players is better which is great but that's about it.

Yeah, on hindsight.

LVG brought an average Netherlands side to the semis in the World Cup before the United squad.

Mourinho was winning leagues everywhere he went, and won the league with Chelsea before suffering in his third season.

Both were seen to be great appointments - but failed.

If Pochettino had come, and failed the same argument would be made that he was an average manager that has never won anything - but it doesn’t stop the fact that there was a point where a large number on the forum wanted him

Withnail · Aug 31, 2021

pascell said:

I see you've already addressed it. I didn't realise.

Wumminator · Aug 31, 2021

UpWithRivers said:
This exactly highlights the endless debates. Lets take Ole is inept tactically. Compared to who? Some people are comparing him to Sir Alex, Pep, Guadiola, Touchel etc and saying yes he inept tactically. Can you argue with that? Is he at that level? No. Others are comparing him with the last 6 years and Mourinho, Van Gal and Moyes and his record compared to that lot. In that case yes he is doing alright and he won against Pep a few times so tactically yes he was not inept on those occasions.

So the question is do you judge Ole based on the highest levels i.e. against the best managers and winning trophies over the course of 3 seasons and even his CV prior to United. Or do base it on the fact that he has improved the team slightly, got good harmony, sold some trash players and got some good results. Both are true depending how you look at it. You can do this with all the points in the op

Of the managers you’re comparing him to as “the best”

a) one is retired for a decade
b) two are the same person
c) one has got the same points as Ole has (almost) since he took over.

SirAnderson · Aug 31, 2021

Great thread @Wumminator and I agree totally. But as many have already said, including yourself, most have made up their minds already and no amount of logic or reasoning will change their "fact".

Sadly, we have to contend with inept, poor, ignorant and deadwood criticism.

pascell · Aug 31, 2021

Withnail said:
I see you've already addressed it. I didn't realise.

Easy mistake, that post has been buried under all the ones still quoting my original post.

sullydnl · Aug 31, 2021

Some of the criticism of Solskjaer is certainly irrational and over the top given he has generally done a very good job. Even those of us who are somewhat sceptical as to his ability to be a top level manager should be patient and see what actually happens this season before coming to hard conclusions. If he was as bad as some people think he wouldn't have done enough to still be manager.

The only vaguely pro-Ole arguments I really object to on this forum are the ones that seem to downplay expectations in (what seems to me) an attempt to pre-emptively pardon Ole should results not be what we want. I'm very happy to be patient with Ole this season but it has to be on the basis that the expectation is for him to actually prove to be a Pep/Klopp/Tuchel/whoever level manager and have us challenging for major trophies, despite our team (like those of all our rivals) having some weaknesses. And that if we don't challenge for those major trophies this season then he should be heavily criticised and his future as United manager should be in severe doubt. Once we're judging him to the appropriate standard though then there should be more patience to see how he actually does, rather than picking fault with every single aspect of his management.

11101 · Aug 31, 2021

Wumminator said:
1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.

2) Ole is poor at changing the game
The simple fact that we have come from behind to win so often is proof that this is also nonsense. We gained thirty-one points from being behind at different points last year. That is insane. The idea that follows that Ole doesn't react quick enough or is poor at making subs is therefore silly as well. Are there instances where Ole didn't make the exact decision you would have done? Sure. Is Ole clearly understanding the pattern of the games and adapting accordingly. Well obviously.

I only subscribe to the first two points, but i think there's plenty to back both of them. They are also both quite related to each other.

1. You are using results to infer tactical nous. Our high number of draws each season hints at this as does the high number of times we get comprehensively outplayed by teams we should be much better than. We rarely get beaten and the talent of our players means we can control possession quite comfortably, but we very frequently have no idea how to break teams down and play out a bore draw. If our preferred way of playing doesn't work it's painfully obvious we have no other ideas other than hoping for a bit of magic from one of our stars. A properly coached team would have a Plan B.

Our lineups are quite random and scattergun. It's far too much of a lottery how and who we will play, which suggests Ole isn't confident in his ability to lineup. Or, he is too confident. Sometimes it works fantastically, sometimes it leaves us neutered. Hence all the draws and random results.

2. I don't see how you can question this and keep a straight face. How many times do we need to see us sit on our hands whilst a game gets away from us, only to bring on hair brained subs in the 88th minute? Keeping Fred on against PSG to wait for an inevitable red card was one of many, but Villareal showed without doubt that he is poor at changing the game. The reasons why are up for debate. Personally i think it ties in with both 1. and his time at Cardiff, he doesn't actually read the game very well as a coach and doesn't know what he needs to do. His skills are elsewhere and that's fine, Ferguson acknowledged he had weaknesses too, but Ole needs to own them and get coaches in who can fill the gaps.

Andycoleno9 · Aug 31, 2021

How many "praise" threads Ole needs? Every now and then someone needs to create a thread about why Ole is great and why people who don't see that are idiots. Why is that big problem that some of us don't think that he is not good enough?
It is not that we hate Ole so feck him, he is not good enough. We always give reasons why we should replace him.

3 years without trophy
Lost EL final against underdog plus 4 semis
After 3 years in charge and with world class team he is dominated by Saints and Wolves.
Lack of general gameplan. Sit deep and play on counter is the main and only plan.

I respect unbeaten run and his approach to players. Also, he did brough good mood in club which is nice to have. But i am sorry; same as we all want top class players in team, i want top class manager on the bench.

Nevertheless, do we agree that this season title challenge and trophy, any trophy, is a must? With this team?

largelyworried · Aug 31, 2021

Oles overall record is no defence against the first charge - we have an outstanding squad! That will take you a long way. But after two and a half seasons in charge he still struggles with the exact same tactical problems against inferior teams and his inability to crack that particular nut does not reflect well on him. His record against Pep is irrelevant. His tactical shortcoming are against teams that come with a plan to stop us We always do better against teams that try and come at us.

“Inept” is overegging it by the way. He’s just “ok“ when you need an outstanding tactician these days to win.

SirAnderson · Aug 31, 2021

RetroStu said:
I'm not, and havent been part of the 'Ole Out' brigade, but i think the guy is soft. To me he should be telling the likes of Lingard that he has no future at the club and he needs to find a new club. I think he worries too much about the opposing teams, especially when away from home, instead of putting out the best team possible and letting the opposing team worry about us. I have nothing to base this on other than a hunch but i feel hes distant from the players, and only really talks to them as a group in team talks etc. I dont think he's good enough to reach that 'next level', and by that i mean SAF would walk this league imo with the players we have, no midield or not.

Having saiid all that, his away record is brilliant, and 'stats' wise his as good as anyone in the league, and has a better first 100 game record than Klopp, believe it or not.

So what do i know.

Don't let his light mannered demeanor in most press conference and his baby face smile deceive you. There's a reason the baby face is followed by Assassin. He has a mean streak and I'm sure he uses it when necessary.
As for your hunch, I feel the exact opposite. No way you can have the dressing room and the positive vibes he's brought to the club in his 3 years without a level of closeness and mentoring personal from him in some cases.

Wumminator · Aug 31, 2021

Andycoleno9 said:
How many "praise" threads Ole needs? Every now and then someone needs to create a thread about why Ole is great and why people who don't see that are idiots. Why is that big problem that some of us don't think that he is not good enough?
It is not that we hate Ole so feck him, he is not good enough. We always give reasons why we should replace him.

3 years without trophy
Lost EL final against underdog plus 4 semis
After 3 years in charge and with world class team he is dominated by Saints and Wolves.
Lack of general gameplan. Sit deep and play on counter is the main and only plan.

I respect unbeaten run and his approach to players. Also, he did brough good mood in club which is nice to have. But i am sorry; same as we all want top class players in team, i want top class manager on the bench.

Nevertheless, do we agree that this season title challenge and trophy, any trophy, is a must? With this team?

There is quite literally no other thread on the first page remotely praising Ole.

alexthelion · Aug 31, 2021

Wumminator said:
I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. There seems to be some people who think that there are fervent Ole inners who can't take any criticism of the club. That is simply not true. What I (and others evidently) on this forum can't stand are illogical and stupid arguments. Here are some of them:

1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.

2) Ole is poor at changing the game
The simple fact that we have come from behind to win so often is proof that this is also nonsense. We gained thirty-one points from being behind at different points last year. That is insane. The idea that follows that Ole doesn't react quick enough or is poor at making subs is therefore silly as well. Are there instances where Ole didn't make the exact decision you would have done? Sure. Is Ole clearly understanding the pattern of the games and adapting accordingly. Well obviously.

3.) Ole has ignored the midfield problem
Not at all. He just can't solve everything at once. We are now seeing Ole assembling the most exciting United team for almost a decade. But there probably is an issue with our midfield. The problem is before this window there was also a problem with our right wing and our CB. At centre back we've just signed a world class defender (as far as we can assume so far) and means we now have a great back up option in Lindelof to rotate. Otherwise we were one injury away from relying on Baily and Tuanzebe. Sancho will hopefully prove to be an exceptional talent in a role where we literally had Greenwood and Dan James. Now of all the pressing concerns we had, CB and RW seemed to be a massive priority. Effectively we've spent 90 million this summer and upgraded both significantly.

4.) Ole has kept the deadwood around/we are fleeced for our player sales.
Now this one I get but some people have both these views simultaneously. We know there are some players in the squad that are not up to our standard. However, you simply can not get rid of these players for nothing else you will have a weaker position in the transfer market next time. I've seen some people say we should just accept a couple of million for Lingard and get him to West Ham. If you do that, you won't get £25 million for James later in the window. Ole has absolutely turfed out around 15 first team players in his time at the club who weren't good enough and now we finally look to have a squad of players ready to contribute. Lest you forget that Young, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian, Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Perreira were all around the first team when he arrived and have since been deemed no longer good enough.

Again, there are issues with the team. If you want to point out we often go behind in games and make it hard for ourselves, that is fair enough. If you want to argue that Ole should have strengthened midfield rather than CB that is also fair enough, it's just much more complicated than flat out saying he has ignored it.

No-one wants a forum where people can't complain. We just want reasonable posts and some of you have clearly decided Ole is not good enough and make up any old reason to justify your opinion.

Sanity on the caf, whatever next?

rotherham_red · Aug 31, 2021

Wumminator said:
I've been meaning to make this thread for a while. There seems to be some people who think that there are fervent Ole inners who can't take any criticism of the club. That is simply not true. What I (and others evidently) on this forum can't stand are illogical and stupid arguments. Here are some of them:

1) Ole is inept tactically
The fact Manchester United have just set a record for the longest unbeaten record is evidence of this. You simply can not go that long in the most competitive league unbeaten if you don't have a clue what you are doing. The fact that Ole has the best record against Pep of anyone who has ever played against him (as far as I am aware) should also go to dismissing that fallacy. If you want to argue that tactics can be improved, then I would love to read your posts. I don't really understand a lot about football myself. But the idea that he's completely useless is thrown around here a lot and it doesn't follow.

2) Ole is poor at changing the game
The simple fact that we have come from behind to win so often is proof that this is also nonsense. We gained thirty-one points from being behind at different points last year. That is insane. The idea that follows that Ole doesn't react quick enough or is poor at making subs is therefore silly as well. Are there instances where Ole didn't make the exact decision you would have done? Sure. Is Ole clearly understanding the pattern of the games and adapting accordingly. Well obviously.

3.) Ole has ignored the midfield problem
Not at all. He just can't solve everything at once. We are now seeing Ole assembling the most exciting United team for almost a decade. But there probably is an issue with our midfield. The problem is before this window there was also a problem with our right wing and our CB. At centre back we've just signed a world class defender (as far as we can assume so far) and means we now have a great back up option in Lindelof to rotate. Otherwise we were one injury away from relying on Baily and Tuanzebe. Sancho will hopefully prove to be an exceptional talent in a role where we literally had Greenwood and Dan James. Now of all the pressing concerns we had, CB and RW seemed to be a massive priority. Effectively we've spent 90 million this summer and upgraded both significantly.

4.) Ole has kept the deadwood around/we are fleeced for our player sales.
Now this one I get but some people have both these views simultaneously. We know there are some players in the squad that are not up to our standard. However, you simply can not get rid of these players for nothing else you will have a weaker position in the transfer market next time. I've seen some people say we should just accept a couple of million for Lingard and get him to West Ham. If you do that, you won't get £25 million for James later in the window. Ole has absolutely turfed out around 15 first team players in his time at the club who weren't good enough and now we finally look to have a squad of players ready to contribute. Lest you forget that Young, Valencia, Rojo, Darmian, Fellaini, Sanchez, Smalling, Perreira were all around the first team when he arrived and have since been deemed no longer good enough.

Again, there are issues with the team. If you want to point out we often go behind in games and make it hard for ourselves, that is fair enough. If you want to argue that Ole should have strengthened midfield rather than CB that is also fair enough, it's just much more complicated than flat out saying he has ignored it.

No-one wants a forum where people can't complain. We just want reasonable posts and some of you have clearly decided Ole is not good enough and make up any old reason to justify your opinion.

Well said

Ali Dia · Aug 31, 2021

MikeUpNorth said:
My question about Ole is can he get the team to deliver when the chips are down in those semifinals and finals.

It’s fine margins but I just don’t think Mourinho or Van Gaal lose a final against Villarreal. It just wouldn’t happen. Moyes would probably lose it.

If he can get the team over the line to win a trophy or two, then I think we might have a good manager on our hands. I think he can do it.

Something like this. Get that first trophy and take the hand break off. The pressure is building more each year so to an extent I can understand a conservative approach. Fair enough. The squad isn’t perfect but he’s been backed and on paper it looks like he’s chosen well. we should be going close in all the competitions. Hopefully seeing Hannibal Elanga and Amad picking up some meaningful experience this half of the season before making a loan decision after xmas. We have enough players everywhere now apart from midfield to ride out any kind of injury crisis or fatigue related drop off. Ole needs to find the line between playing your best team/running players into ground/leaving players sitting for months on no minutes and get us playing better stuff. Not easy!

Kelly15 · Aug 31, 2021

"What tHe heck is going. We play Scholes and Carrick in CM and despite clearly not working we keep on picking them again and again. With both of them our passing becomes slow as snails pace and teams just rampage through the midfield because Scholes dont have the legs nor Carrick is someone who adds energy to midfield. Its like our midfield keeps watching while opposition cuts through it with ease. All of them stand stills offering feck all in
Pressing department as a team. It has come to a point now where i just dont seem to get my head arounf Fergie picking Scholes and Giggs despite better players in disposal.
Most of the time players fail to perform but i solely blame Fergie for this shit that we are watching from quite a few months now. Its like Fergie just doesnt see it as a problem.
Before somebody points out as a kneejerk Its not a fecking knee jerk as its been going on for long now."

This from the zombie football thread when we won the league by 11 points. No matter what happens their is always toxic people on here who think they know better. Arm chair managers with no experience. The its "plain for anyone to see" attitude. I know better than anyone attitude. It would be nice if someone cleaned up this forum from the toxic tones and people. If you don't agree with tactics and explain why that's a normal post.

RooneyLegend · Aug 31, 2021

Achilles McCool said:
I’ve thought for a while that the problem isn’t Ole, but the coaches he surrounds himself with. He is loyal, which is admirable, but I believe we need a world class assistant instead of Carrick, Phelan, etc.
Ferguson’s best years, in my opinion, were when he brought in experienced International coaches like Carlos, Rene and others.
I back Ole and believe in him and this team, but I think that an “experienced” right hand man is what Ole needs.
Great OP @Wumminator and agree, we wouldn’t have put together this great away run is Ole was out of his depth. I’m excited for this season!!

Whats Rene up to these days?

Achilles McCool · Aug 31, 2021

RooneyLegend said:
Whats Rene up to these days?

Great question!

Red Shorts · Aug 31, 2021

Yeah agree with most of those. The only one in question is his tactical decision making. He struggles to find solutions when they the opposition make it hard to break down, but that has been down to the type of players he has been utilising in the past.

Fingers crossed with the likes of Sancho and Ronaldo now here, as well as Greenwood developing finely that we can create something out of nothing during difficult games

slored1 · Aug 31, 2021

Denis79 said:
Im neither Ole in or out. This season is the one that will give us the answer if he's the man to take us further or not. He has a fantastic team now with world-class players. No excuses to not have a really good season.

Exactly the same as you. I really like the guy but am not overly supportive or negative regarding his job-stability.

Andycoleno9 · Aug 31, 2021

Dinghy said:
Can't wait till he wins a throphy.

"Fluked it"

"Other teams where shite"

"Would never have won it without Ronaldo/Bruno/etc"

"It's just one throphy"

First he needs to win that trophy.

RooneyLegend · Aug 31, 2021

You should add that people should respect Ole's set up. People are here all over the place clamoring for a change in system while clearly Ole has his own one firmly instilled. Let's make that one work instead of trying to copy others.

Zen86 · Aug 31, 2021

Denis79 said:
Im neither Ole in or out. This season is the one that will give us the answer if he's the man to take us further or not. He has a fantastic team now with world-class players. No excuses to not have a really good season.

Is the correct answer

horsechoker · Aug 31, 2021

It's funny how far people will go to defend Ole including making well written arguments and providing examples.

Spaghetti · Aug 31, 2021

Ole is “tactically inept” yet Pep is seen as some tactical God on here. I guess most didn’t watch the Champions League final where Pep absolutely shat his pants and seemed like a novice manager. And several other games where the other team don’t do exactly what he wants them to do.

Ole is not perfect, but I’m more than happy with him and the OP makes some great and interesting points.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Aug 31, 2021

Kush said:
It all boils down to him not being ultimately good enough. It's that simple, both sides go towards extreme. But, Ole isn't tactically cut out to win PL/CL, which should be our aim with this squad. He's into his full 3rd season, we've seen enough to know his limitations. Our quality of football is dross in so many matches we play, there's no consistency. It's a systematic issue, not a personnel one. Which is why no amount of signings can make up for his lack of managerial ability at the very top.

By your shit logic Pep isn’t tactically cut out to win the UCL either considering he’s been out-thought “tactically” pretty much every year in the completion. People to this day refuse to give Zidane credit tactically for anything yet that man won 3 UCL’s in a row.

People get way too wrapped up in tactics and not execution, which is why I couldn’t stand when pundits/fans would call it a Mourinho Masterclass when we would just shut up shop and score our only chance to scrape a win. Our main problems in recent years when we play poorly are a lack of execution (which can be put down to the players) and a poor shape in build up at times when looking to dominate the ball (this is more on the staff).

But to say he doesn’t have the quality to win a league or UCL when until this year we’ve not even been close to a favorite for either (and still aren’t) is just pure bias. Sure if we fail in both competitions without a real challenge this year then I’ll gladly say he has to go, but doing so beforehand just shows your hand as someone who didn’t want him at the club in the first place and is reluctant to give him credit for anything that has occurred while he’s been here.

RUCK4444 · Aug 31, 2021

horsechoker said:
It's funny how far people will go to defend Ole including making well written arguments and providing examples.

Also known as proof.

2mufc0 · Aug 31, 2021

I've always been Ole in but this is the season he needs to deliver (title challenge, win atleast 1 trophy). As an Ole supporter there are no more excuses left for him to achieve this.

glazed · Aug 31, 2021

The fundamental problem is that high press is more efficient at harvesting points when coached well, but only a few coaches are good enough to do it. Klopp and Pep are among those who can. Ole is not. So however well he does at the thing he is good at, he's always going to look weak compared to those two because he's relying on individual flare to make up for relative tactical naivety.

Mickeza · Aug 31, 2021

Kelly15 said:
"What tHe heck is going. We play Scholes and Carrick in CM and despite clearly not working we keep on picking them again and again. With both of them our passing becomes slow as snails pace and teams just rampage through the midfield because Scholes dont have the legs nor Carrick is someone who adds energy to midfield. Its like our midfield keeps watching while opposition cuts through it with ease. All of them stand stills offering feck all in
Pressing department as a team. It has come to a point now where i just dont seem to get my head arounf Fergie picking Scholes and Giggs despite better players in disposal.
Most of the time players fail to perform but i solely blame Fergie for this shit that we are watching from quite a few months now. Its like Fergie just doesnt see it as a problem.
Before somebody points out as a kneejerk Its not a fecking knee jerk as its been going on for long now."

Longing for a bit Fred. Now we have his energy we’re longing for Carrick :lol:

SirAnderson · Aug 31, 2021

Andycoleno9 said:
How many "praise" threads Ole needs? Every now and then someone needs to create a thread about why Ole is great and why people who don't see that are idiots. Why is that big problem that some of us don't think that he is not good enough?
It is not that we hate Ole so feck him, he is not good enough. We always give reasons why we should replace him.

3 years without trophy
Lost EL final against underdog plus 4 semis
After 3 years in charge and with world class team he is dominated by Saints and Wolves.
Lack of general gameplan. Sit deep and play on counter is the main and only plan.

I respect unbeaten run and his approach to players. Also, he did brough good mood in club which is nice to have. But i am sorry; same as we all want top class players in team, i want top class manager on the bench.

Nevertheless, do we agree that this season title challenge and trophy, any trophy, is a must? With this team?

The instant success that fans crave today is something to behold. I myself am guilty of this at times.

Imagine United caved to fan pressure and the inconsistent results on the pitch during Fergie's first 3 years as Manager. League positions (11th, 2nd, 11th) and 13th when he won his first trophy, FA cup.
I'm sure many had very similar arguments that exist today, just like this famous banner when it seemed he was close to getting the sack:

What's our banners? Yours is:

3 years without trophy
Lost EL final against underdog plus 4 semis
After 3 years in charge and with world class team he is dominated by Saints and Wolves.
Lack of general gameplan. Sit deep and play on counter is the main and only plan.

The list goes on as mentioned by @Wumminator and others in this thread already.

Not saying he is the new Fergie or will ever come close to achieving what Sir Alex did, doubt that will ever be possible in today's world of Football, but the results, more rather than less, that I see on the pitch AND the direction the club is going tell me a story, that Ole has done more than enough to justify that the club stick with him for a while longer. Sure if things stay the same longer and there is no sign of progress, that's a different story altogether, but that is not the case right now.

Nevertheless, say we cave in for a second and give in to the frenzy of wanting him gone...there is no manager worth their salt out there right now that is available imo, so why not just get behind the manager and give him the benefit of the doubt, unless you want to go back to the chop and changing from the Moyes to Van Gaal to Mourinho wilderness we had to endure, because whoever comes in to replace Ole, is most definitely not a sure bet at instant success, no one is.

Criticism is fine (and encouraged) but there are some criticisms thrown at Ole that don't make any sense

90% of teams play better football than us

Wobbles like a massive pair of tits

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