Solskjær press conference vs West Ham (A)

united_99

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MichaelRed said:
1) I personally, despite my complete belief that Ole will fail to win anything, wouldn't sack him at this point in time. If he fails to make it out of the group stage I'd sack him on the spot. If not I'd wait until the end of the season and sack him if we've won nothing come that point. Right now I'd aim for Zidane as I don't think Conte would be the great fit that a lot of people think he'd be.

2) No. I think there's no real football people above the manager and that has plagued the club since SAF departed as both Mourinho and LvG have alluded to or just outright stated. SAF maybe didn't need anyone above him because he sort of ran everything but times are different now and there needs to be more experience throughout the club, like how Bayern are run for example.

3) Whilst I think our squad has improved immensely, I don't actually think Ole has been so instrumental in the changes in personnel.
  • He spent 10m on Ighalo loan which was a waste of time & money.
  • £50m for AWB who is one of the weak links in the team, exceptional at one on one defending but has real shortcomings elsewhere.
  • £55m for Bruno but we should have got him in the summer, especially as he claims he nearly went to Spurs in that window but we risked it going to January. Bruno was also hardly a stroke of genius given that he had been involved in 79 goals in his last 79 games for Sporting.
  • Maguire is a great addition in my opinion, I'm not a fan of all the stick he gets but we were already in for him as Mourinho was trying to get him and it was hardly a steal at £85m.
  • Dan James, oddly one of our best bits of business. I don't mind taking a punt on a player for cheap & when they don't work out sell them for a good profit. Good business here.
  • van de Beek has been a disaster so far. Lots of suggestion that he wasn't Ole's signing, idk if that's true but he certainly hasn't been a hit with Ole.
  • Diallo, we have to wait and see what happens here but decisions like bringing Jesse back into the fold is only going to prevent Diallo from being a success.
  • Pellistri, we have to wait and see but they can't all succeed with us I suppose.
  • Cavani was a last minute panic buy that thankfully worked out.
  • Telles was sensible at the time because of Shaw's injury woes. Unfortunate for Telles that Shaw seems to suddenly be indestructable but I think Telles is still good cover.
  • Varane was forcing his way to us and would have done with or without Ole. He always had a thing for us ever since he was 18 and SAF nearly got him. Obvious signing.
  • Ronaldo, don't personally think Ole was relevant to this deal happening or not.
  • Sancho will come good I'm certain of it but he actually is the opposite of how Ole plays so I think he will be a success but not while Ole is with us.
  • Finally, the GK situation has been an absolute mess made by Ole. Bringing Dean back but not letting Romero go to Everton, turning down £10m and paying Romero £5m in wages to sit in reserves & show him total disrespect was a disgrace. Then we unsettle both Dean and de Gea and get shaky performances from both. Then we bring in Heaton as a #2 but fail to ship out Dean or de Gea so now we have two first choice GKs, a 2nd choice in Heaton and 3rd choice Grant. Utter mess.
So, overall I think we're better off than when Ole started in terms of squad but I also think a lot of these situations could feesibly have occurred without Ole's influence. What do you think about his role with our incomings?
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Without replying to everything as according to this logic no manager should ever get credit for a signing as the player was coming anyway or something like that.

We know that United managers have a say in the signings. At least he tells the club the kind of profile he likes. For example I don’t think Mourinho would have bought Bruno (takes too many risks) or Sancho (too young, does not defend, etc.).
Equally Ole has not spent huge money on someone who never wanted to be here (AdM).
So Ole does indeed deserve much more credit for our squad building than people are willing to admit.
 

ghagua

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MichaelRed said:
100%. We should have thanked him for his work and parted ways. The thing that annoys me the most about these staunch Ole defenders is that when you say he's not good enough after yet another abysmal performance they scream "ohh you're so reactionary!!!". I'll tell you what's reactionary, hiring a mid to low-tier manager and full set of backroom staff on a permanent basis on the back of a champions league result in Paris. His very position as United manager is the definition of reactionary.
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It's the same people who defended Moyes, LGV, and Maureen till the bitter end even though the signs were there right away. I thought Moyes was a bad hire when it happened, I gave LVG the benefit of the doubt as his 2014 Dutch team left a lot to be desired (even though they did well in the World Cup), and I was totally against hiring Maureen. His brand of football and his personality is not something that is for United, but his hiring was something that was done to counteract the hiring of Pep at City. Ole has done what he was brought in for, no idea why he was given the permanent job, and then to extend him as well? The definition of mediocrity.
 

MichaelRed

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united_99 said:
Without replying to everything as according to this logic no manager should ever get credit for a signing as the player was coming anyway or something like that.

We know that United managers have a say in the signings. At least he tells the club the kind of profile he likes. For example I don’t think Mourinho would have bought Bruno (takes too many risks) or Sancho (too young, does not defend, etc.).
Equally Ole has not spent huge money on someone who never wanted to be here (AdM).
So Ole does indeed deserve much more credit for our squad building than people are willing to admit.
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Well if Ole looks at player profile it's a mystery as to why he signed Sancho. Sancho isn't a direct risk taker, he's a cute & clever player that keeps it simple with quick, short passes & sharp movements. He's like a winger version of Mata, Silva & van de Beek. Ole has already shown us he doesn't fancy that type of player, he's much more route one with his approach and we've already seen Donny suffer because of it and there's early signs Sancho will suffer because of it too. They're exactly the kind of players we're crying out for to dominate games & give us variation in our play but Ole doesn't seem to value their strengths.
 

Tom Cato

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ghagua said:
Ole has done the job that he was brought in for, he brought calm to the dressing room after the turmoil with Maureen. He has not really cleared the "trash" as people think. He instead gave Jones a contract extension, while getting rid of 2 players who were pretty useful.

Ole has shown he has absolutely no idea on how to play modern attacking football but keeps harking back to the good old days of Ferguson. The results he got after he was put in temporary charge were very good, but we did not play well apart from one or 2 games. He has been in charge full time for over 2 years and has not implemented any playing philosophy other than relying on individual brilliance. That wins you some matches, but to win the title you need a consistent playing style that wins games.

We have Ronaldo, Bruno, Pogba, Sancho, Greenwood, yet we cannot create a decent chance against Southampton, Wolves of Young Boys. It's the same issue every year where we cannot break a team down. Sitting back and hitting top 6 teams will not get you very far, you need to beat the lower level teams as well.

Ole would have been safe in his job if he finished in the top 4 as that brings money in for the owners and in turn, makes Woody look good, but Ronaldo is not here to finish in the top 4, he is here to win. When he starts complaining at the end of the year, Ole will be gone, I am sure of that.

The most significant thing Ole has done as a manager is suffer relegation with Cardiff, yet we are supposed to see him as a messiah at United because he brought goodwill back to the dressing room?
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We scored 73 goals in the Prem last season, 2nd in the league. Pretty good for not having any idea how to play attacking football. Imagine if we had literally anyone else. 120 goals, minimum.

A more apt to the point of scoring desire is the tendency to go on scoring binges. We've put 5 or more goals in the net 10 times under Ole so far. Previous to that we score 5 or more goals two times total under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho. TWO.
 
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Herman Toothrot

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MichaelRed said:
Sorry for not enjoying our 8 years of failure after SAF. Maybe I should just be content with a Liverpoolesque 30 year wait.
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Mate, if you can't see progress, you're blind.

I accept a certain amount of hysterics after every setback, but people getting upset because Solskjær calls football a simple game? Bloody hell.

Cheer yourself up and read about triangles and the underground influence of third division East European formations that I've not even heard about.
 

HailtotheKing

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MichaelRed said:
He has improved us, we were rock bottom. I'm glad we've gotten away from rock bottom but now we're stagnating and he's so clearly not the man to keep improving us. There's nothing wrong with thanking him for the progress he made & parting ways so that we can keep making progress rather than stagnating out of loyalty.
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It's no different to business. There are people that excel at going into a business that's gone bad and put it back on its feet. Then they leave. Because that's the part they're good at. Ole has done outstanding things and brought us back towards the pedestal. We now have a squad to challenge. I just don't know if he's the man to fully utilise it. He's earned the chance. And for sure we shouldn't be getting rid of him now. But we shouldn't hesitate if it turns out he isn't. My biggest question to Ole is if he says he doesn't coach, why would he surround himself with people as inexperienced as him, rather than getting the best in the business? That makes no sense to me. One young one, sure. But Carrick and McKenna? That's just mental.
 

MichaelRed

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Herman Toothrot said:
Mate, if you can't see progress, you're blind.

I accept a certain amount of hysterics after every setback, but people getting upset because Solskjær calls football a simple game? Bloody hell.

Cheer yourself up and read about triangles and the underground influence of third division East European formations that I've not even heard about.
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You really think these reactions are solely based on a press conference? I hope you're joking.
 

united_99

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MichaelRed said:
Well if Ole looks at player profile it's a mystery as to why he signed Sancho. Sancho isn't a direct risk taker, he's a cute & clever player that keeps it simple with quick, short passes & sharp movements. He's like a winger version of Mata, Silva & van de Beek. Ole has already shown us he doesn't fancy that type of player, he's much more route one with his approach and we've already seen Donny suffer because of it and there's early signs Sancho will suffer because of it too. They're exactly the kind of players we're crying out for to dominate games & give us variation in our play but Ole doesn't seem to value their strengths.
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You are acting as if Ole likes all his wingers to be like James.
Sancho is on another level to Donny. And Ole likes intelligent skillful players which Sancho is. He also likes Martial (who used to be a more intelligent and much better version than what he showed last season).
Donny is unlucky as he is not better than Bruno/Pogba, otherwise he would play more.
 

MichaelRed

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HailtotheKing said:
It's no different to business. There are people that excel at going into a business that's gone bad and put it back on its feet. Then they leave. Because that's the part they're good at. Ole has done outstanding things and brought us back towards the pedestal. We now have a squad to challenge. I just don't know if he's the man to fully utilise it. He's earned the chance. And for sure we shouldn't be getting rid of him now. But we shouldn't hesitate if it turns out he isn't. My biggest question to Ole is if he says he doesn't coach, why would he surround himself with people as inexperienced as him, rather than getting the best in the business? That makes no sense to me. One young one, sure. But Carrick and McKenna? That's just mental.
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Especially since McKenna came through the ranks at United & Carrick spent his career under the same manager as Ole did in SAF. You'd think you'd want a mix of ideas from different backgrounds, I imagine these 3 are their own little echo-chamber because they've all had the same football upbringing essentially. Really don't like the whole chummy atmosphere we have going on, it doesn't sound like the kind of environment where people are challenged to better themselves. I could be proven wrong but it all feels too safe imo.
 

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tenpoless said:
Here's hoping the last disappointing result will give a kick that the squad need to perform better. Its better to have it early in the season than to get carried away getting dodgy results without actually deserving them.
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Yeah, I hope Ole has learned something. Against VR he did nothing. Against YB he actually did, he just didn't do the right things. So, now hopefully he'll realize his mistakes there too. Then again he may just put it all down to unluckiness due to Lingard. Of course we can't blame Ole for a player mistake. But changing to a back 5, giving up the midfield, and inviting a team to attack you for a half was really asking for problems. The biggest issues I have with Ole are his lack of courage and his stubbornness.
 

MichaelRed

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united_99 said:
You are acting as if Ole likes all his wingers to be like James.
Sancho is on another level to Donny. And Ole likes intelligent skillful players which Sancho is. He also likes Martial (who used to be a more intelligent and much better version than what he showed last season).
Donny is unlucky as he is not better than Bruno/Pogba, otherwise he would play more.
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Then why against Young Boys, in a situation where we needed to keep possession so we don't expend all of our energy chasing shadows whilst a man down, did he take sub off Donny and Sancho despite them having the greatest ball retention for us in that game? He kept on direct players who kept going route one and giving the ball away. Pogba and Bruno (the players Ole actually does like) gave possession away 24 times between them & won it back twice. Donny gave it away twice in the first half and won it back 4 times. Yet Donny and Sancho, the intelligent players that can keep the ball and be exactly what you need in midfield when you're a man down, got hooked in favour of the direct players that lose possession repeatedly in favour of taking risks. Ole has shown nothing to suggest he likes players that keep it simple in my opinion and in the game against Young Boys his direct approach 100% cost us on the night. Only a lunatic weakens his midfield after going a man down.
 

HailtotheKing

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MichaelRed said:
Especially since McKenna came through the ranks at United & Carrick spent his career under the same manager as Ole did in SAF. You'd think you'd want a mix of ideas from different backgrounds, I imagine these 3 are their own little echo-chamber because they've all had the same football upbringing essentially. Really don't like the whole chummy atmosphere we have going on, it doesn't sound like the kind of environment where people are challenged to better themselves. I could be proven wrong but it all feels too safe imo.
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100%. And do Carrick or McKenna even look like people that would question his ideas? That's the scariest thing to me. I'm glad we hired the Chelsea dude but we need to go much further. If Ole's not really the coach then he needs someone at the very top to compensate/help him with that. Simple question. Do people think Fergie was a better coach than Ole? A better everything than Ole? And yet he relied on top coaches. So why the hell shouldn't Ole?
 

MichaelRed

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HailtotheKing said:
100%. And do Carrick or McKenna even look like people that would question his ideas? That's the scariest thing to me. I'm glad we hired the Chelsea dude but we need to go much further. If Ole's not really the coach then he needs someone at the very top to compensate/help him with that. Simple question. Do people think Fergie was a better coach than Ole? A better everything than Ole? And yet he relied on top coaches. So why the hell shouldn't Ole?
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I know it's only early in this season but this is looking spot on. Already there's such a clear and obvious improvement for us at set pieces after hiring a set-piece coach from outside the mates rates clubhouse. Sadly I don't think Ole will replace Carrick & McKenna etc with outside experience in order to benefit other areas of our game, particularly in open play, as he's too familiar with them.
 

Chesterlestreet

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MichaelRed said:
What do you think about his role with our incomings?
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I think...that we still don't have a structure where it's obvious that someone other than the manager (United don't have a "head coach" - we still have a "manager") is ultimately responsible for recruitment on the football side.

So - I see the players brought in as pieces he (Ole) has deemed worthy of adding to the puzzle. And on the whole - what has been added has been good (not to say very good - compared to where we were before he took over).

(I will admit that I stated - explicitly - that I didn't think he'd want Ronaldo added to said puzzle, though - so make of that what you will...).
 

united_99

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MichaelRed said:
Then why against Young Boys, in a situation where we needed to keep possession so we don't expend all of our energy chasing shadows whilst a man down, did he take sub off Donny and Sancho despite them having the greatest ball retention for us in that game? He kept on direct players who kept going route one and giving the ball away. Pogba and Bruno (the players Ole actually does like) gave possession away 24 times between them & won it back twice. Donny gave it away twice in the first half and won it back 4 times. Yet Donny and Sancho, the intelligent players that can keep the ball and be exactly what you need in midfield when you're a man down, got hooked in favour of the direct players that lose possession repeatedly in favour of taking risks. Ole has shown nothing to suggest he likes players that keep it simple in my opinion and in the game against Young Boys his direct approach 100% cost us on the night. Only a lunatic weakens his midfield after going a man down.
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That’s tactical mistakes on his side (wrong subs apart from Sancho which was the correct decision) and have nothing to do with transfers.
Also Sancho isn’t in good form yet so taking him off for Dalot was the right move.
 

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HailtotheKing said:
100%. And do Carrick or McKenna even look like people that would question his ideas? That's the scariest thing to me. I'm glad we hired the Chelsea dude but we need to go much further. If Ole's not really the coach then he needs someone at the very top to compensate/help him with that. Simple question. Do people think Fergie was a better coach than Ole? A better everything than Ole? And yet he relied on top coaches. So why the hell shouldn't Ole?
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What does someone who questions ideas look like?
 

jem

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VanDeBank said:
Its so obvious though. The man always highlights players who were terrible and says they played really well. Matic a couple games back and also VDB after a disastrous game last season.

:houllier:
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You're learning.
 

MichaelRed

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united_99 said:
That’s tactical mistakes on his side (wrong subs apart from Sancho which was the correct decision) and have nothing to do with transfers.
Also Sancho isn’t in good form yet so taking him off for Dalot was the right move.
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Why not take off Pogba from the other wing? Play a 4-4-1, that way you keep Sancho's pace down the flanks so you can alleviate pressure when you need to hit it wide & you keep on a player that keeps the ball in high pressure situations. Sancho is so calm and relaxed in possession in attacking areas. Pogba on the other hand passed it to Young Boys 8 times, got tackled 4 times & we all know he doesn't put in the biggest defensive shift. Just seemed utterly bizzare to me to remove your pace out wide when you're going to spend the next 60 minutes under siege.
 

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MichaelRed said:
Only a lunatic weakens his midfield after going a man down.
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THIS. Everyone looks at AWB and Lingard as the reason why we failed. But taking off the one midfielder who could hold onto the ball was really dumb. And why even bother doing it when they weren't even creating loads of chances against us. It was such a safety-first approach. But borderline stupid. I'd argue he should kept Varane in to help build his partnership with Maguire for the West Ham and Everton games. Then I'd have brought Dalot in against weaker opposition to provide the crosses for Ronaldo. Surely that would've made more sense? AWB has been an accident waiting to happen. He's just not playing well right now, frequently plays the wrong passes and loses the ball. He needs to sit it out a bit. Then if he wanted to take Ronaldo and Bruno off, surely Martial was the way to go, someone to hold up the ball and prevent it coming back at you, as opposed to Lingard who can run around a bit but can't hold onto the ball.
 

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HailtotheKing said:
THIS. Everyone looks at AWB and Lingard as the reason why we failed. But taking off the one midfielder who could hold onto the ball was really dumb. And why even bother doing it when they weren't even creating loads of chances against us. It was such a safety-first approach. But borderline stupid. I'd argue he should kept Varane in to help build his partnership with Maguire for the West Ham and Everton games. Then I'd have brought Dalot in against weaker opposition to provide the crosses for Ronaldo. Surely that would've made more sense? AWB has been an accident waiting to happen. He's just not playing well right now, frequently plays the wrong passes and loses the ball. He needs to sit it out a bit. Then if he wanted to take Ronaldo and Bruno off, surely Martial was the way to go, someone to hold up the ball and prevent it coming back at you, as opposed to Lingard who can run around a bit but can't hold onto the ball.
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I thought it was hilarious that he said he brough Lingard on for his legs. It was the 70th minute. He could have brought Tom Heaton on for Ronaldo and Heaton would have been able to chase the ball for 20 minutes. He didn't need to pick Lingard for his legs.
 

united_99

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MichaelRed said:
Why not take off Pogba from the other wing? Play a 4-4-1, that way you keep Sancho's pace down the flanks so you can alleviate pressure when you need to hit it wide & you keep on a player that keeps the ball in high pressure situations. Sancho is so calm and relaxed in possession in attacking areas. Pogba on the other hand passed it to Young Boys 8 times, got tackled 4 times & we all know he doesn't put in the biggest defensive shift. Just seemed utterly bizzare to me to remove your pace out wide when you're going to spend the next 60 minutes under siege.
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I really have nothing to add to this as we were talking about transfers. Sancho has not been in form and not even looked match fit, playing him when we are a man down would not have been right.
Apart from that the game after the red card was a tactical mess but again, doesn’t have anything to do with why he bought Sancho.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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MichaelRed said:
What do you think about his role with our incomings?
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only on the quoted part.

Tony Kroos, by his own words speaking to the Athletic, said that he was interested to join us, Moyes had come to see him and the contract had basically been done but then Moyes was fired and LvG came in and didn't go for him.

With that, we can assert that a Manager decides who comes into the club, even if a player is an obvious choice, so Ole, since his appointment, has a massive influence on who comes in, and that includes obvious choices like Maguire, Varane and even Ronaldo
 

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I wonder how many of those losing there shizzle in here have actually watched the press conference and not just read what’s reported here and in the news. The context gets lost in written text, you don’t see Oles facial expressions, hear the intonation and emphasis in his voice. The whole press conference is available on the app for those who care enough….. The controversial answer certainly wasn’t delivered in the manner of a man who hasn’t got a clue.
 

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OmarUnited4ever said:
only on the quoted part.

Tony Kroos, by his own words speaking to the Athletic, said that he was interested to join us, Moyes had come to see him and the contract had basically been done but then Moyes was fired and LvG came in and didn't go for him.

With that, we can assert that a Manager decides who comes into the club, even if a player is an obvious choice, so Ole, since his appointment, has a massive influence on who comes in, and that includes obvious choices like Maguire, Varane and even Ronaldo
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Yea, and I'm happy with the signings but the question was if I thought he had no impact on the signings or some impact and I think he has had some. I don't think if we had Zidane for example he would have turned down Varane and Ronaldo etc. Ole no doubt gets credit for rebuilding the team, it's the thing I'm most happy with him doing, I just don't believe that it could only have been him that did it.
 

Crustanoid

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Press conference of the year award should be a thing. Players get goal of the year. Ole probably would never win it though.
 

Tom Cato

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Plant0x84 said:
I wonder how many of those losing there shizzle in here have actually watched the press conference and not just read what’s reported here and in the news. The context gets lost in written text, you don’t see Oles facial expressions, hear the intonation and emphasis in his voice. The whole press conference is available on the app for those who care enough….. The controversial answer certainly wasn’t delivered in the manner of a man who hasn’t got a clue.
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Ole answered a question like a politician with platitudes and bulletpoints and this place lost its mind. So many posters are legitimately feeding off others being irrational and reactionary, seeing people quote them just motivates them to continue in the same track ad infinitum.

I actually enjoy the few posters who can formulate criticism that is factual and investigatory, not raging negativity over one result without bothering to look at what happened "because it doesnt matter".
 
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ivaldo

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rotherham_red said:
As if you've been reported ffs!

Agree with every word. The caf has gone to the dogs from what it used to be back in the early to mid-noughties.
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It's not so much that @Big Andy has been reported, they're always some melt that reports after whining for 150 posts, it's more than a mod actually felt compelled to give a warning.
 

Flytan

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MichaelRed said:
Yea, and I'm happy with the signings but the question was if I thought he had no impact on the signings or some impact and I think he has had some. I don't think if we had Zidane for example he would have turned down Varane and Ronaldo etc. Ole no doubt gets credit for rebuilding the team, it's the thing I'm most happy with him doing, I just don't believe that it could only have been him that did it.
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His best signings have pretty much been players that the whole world already sees as top talent. If any of them don't work out that would be a surprise. The players he bought that weren't considered some of the best talent (whether or be future or current) have been mediocre at best. James was meh. Dvb has been a disaster with his agent talking about promises of playing time. His claim to fame is Shaw turning into a great LB and Greenwood. That's fine. But he's also kept deadwood around like martial and Lingard while moving on some players that have succeeded elsewhere and only gotten better since leaving.

Anyone can sign players like maguire, varane, Ronaldo, Bruno, and cavani. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know they're superb players. Not sure why a manager should get credit for bringing in those types of players, in fact that is what everyone criticizes managers like pep and mourinho for, but they give ole credit for doing it
 

MichaelRed

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Tom Cato said:
Ole answered a question like a politician with platitudes and bulletpoints and this place lost its mind. So many posters are legitimately feeding off others being irrational and reactionary, seeing people quote them just motivates them to continue in the same track ad infinitum.
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Yea, there were no concerns about Ole beforehand and this presser didn't reaffirm any suspected issues or anything like that. Ole in fact has never lost a game in his life and the press conference is the only thing anyone has ever taken issue with. It's also not super reactionary to hire a manager and backroom staff team off the back of a champions league game in Paris. Definitely not reactionary.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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MichaelRed said:
Yea, and I'm happy with the signings but the question was if I thought he had no impact on the signings or some impact and I think he has had some. I don't think if we had Zidane for example he would have turned down Varane and Ronaldo etc. Ole no doubt gets credit for rebuilding the team, it's the thing I'm most happy with him doing, I just don't believe that it could only have been him that did it.
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We dont know that, we have examples like Kroos who we missed out on because LvG didn't fancy him, we've seen Mourinho sell KdB & Salah instead of being patient with them, we wouldn't know if Ole for example was offered a good player and said no, we can only judge a manager on who they actually bring and if for example Sancho fails, I would blame Ole for the signing as much I will credit Ole for Bruno's success with us.

Again, this is only on player incomings and outgoings
 

Tom Cato

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7,580
MichaelRed said:
Yea, there were no concerns about Ole beforehand and this presser didn't reaffirm any suspected issues or anything like that. Ole in fact has never lost a game in his life and the press conference is the only thing anyone has ever taken issue with. It's also not super reactionary to hire a manager and backroom staff team off the back of a champions league game in Paris. Definitely not reactionary.
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Before the Young Boys game we were (and are) sitting on top of the Premier League. I get that that's not good enough for you, but that's where we are after gameweek 4.

My main issue is that you're all very, very quiet when we win, but if we lose a game it's like you take out a vacation day form work so you can really tell everyone how you feel.
 

DSG

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MichaelRed said:
Then why against Young Boys, in a situation where we needed to keep possession so we don't expend all of our energy chasing shadows whilst a man down, did he take sub off Donny and Sancho despite them having the greatest ball retention for us in that game? He kept on direct players who kept going route one and giving the ball away. Pogba and Bruno (the players Ole actually does like) gave possession away 24 times between them & won it back twice. Donny gave it away twice in the first half and won it back 4 times. Yet Donny and Sancho, the intelligent players that can keep the ball and be exactly what you need in midfield when you're a man down, got hooked in favour of the direct players that lose possession repeatedly in favour of taking risks. Ole has shown nothing to suggest he likes players that keep it simple in my opinion and in the game against Young Boys his direct approach 100% cost us on the night. Only a lunatic weakens his midfield after going a man down.
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This is an absolute fallacy of an argument. You are advocating a strategy of being a man down and controlling possession on the road in the Champions League against a high pressing team. We aren’t 2009-11 Barca. We have problems playing out of the back under normal circumstances, much less a man down. Pogba and Bruno stayed on for almost the entire match, 60 minutes of being a man down. Of course they are going to give the ball away more. Bruno plays much higher up the pitch, Essentially chasing passes between fullbacks and CBS, really high percentage passes. Donny spent 35 of 45 minutes in a 11v11 situation and didn’t look great in those 35.

This whole outrage at going to a back 3 is ridiculous. It was designed to give us more central defenders so they can step out and deal with the midfielders setting up between the lines. When you have 2 CBs and playing a man down, there is always a 3v2 situation in the midfield. Putting another CM seems to resolve that, yes? Well, it doesn’t, because you have to then sacrifice a wide player, which gives them a numerical advantage with attacking fullbacks. There is no easy solution. Ole chose to reinforce the middle, have the fullbacks work extra hard, but also concede crosses into the box (because you can’t cover all areas of weakness), betting that Maguire and Varane would head away danger. It mostly worked, but the Shaw deflection bounced into the path of the attacker.
 

MichaelRed

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Tom Cato said:
Before the Young Boys game we were (and are) sitting on top of the Premier League. I get that that's not good enough for you, but that's where we are after gameweek 4.

My main issue is that you're all very, very quiet when we win, but if we lose a game it's like you take out a vacation day form work so you can really tell everyone how you feel.
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I've not wanted Ole as manager from the day he got his first contract. Our form had already started to take a downturn and it made no sense to make him a permanant hire before the season end. I've always felt like we won't even get near major honours with him in charge and so far there's been 3 years and no evidence to the contrary.
 

Plant0x84

Shame we’re aren’t more like Brighton
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Tom Cato said:
Ole answered a question like a politician with platitudes and bulletpoints and this place lost its mind. So many posters are legitimately feeding off others being irrational and reactionary, seeing people quote them just motivates them to continue in the same track ad infinitum.

I actually enjoy the few posters who can formulate criticism that is factual and investigatory, not raging negativity over one result without bothering to look at what happened "because it doesnt matter".
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Yep, absolutely! That’s called reasoned rational debate, and is what the forum is actually intended for!
I understand people are passionate about there club, and these topics can be emotive, but it’s a real shame so often the conversation gets waylaid by a minority who want to shout the loudest, and degenerate the conversation to name calling, sarcasm and abuse.
 

MichaelRed

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Messages
1,649
DSG said:
This is an absolute fallacy of an argument. You are advocating a strategy of being a man down and controlling possession on the road in the Champions League against a high pressing team. We aren’t 2009-11 Barca. We have problems playing out of the back under normal circumstances, much less a man down. Pogba and Bruno stayed on for almost the entire match, 60 minutes of being a man down. Of course they are going to give the ball away more. Bruno plays much higher up the pitch, Essentially chasing passes between fullbacks and CBS, really high percentage passes. Donny spent 35 of 45 minutes in a 11v11 situation and didn’t look great in those 35.

This whole outrage at going to a back 3 is ridiculous. It was designed to give us more central defenders so they can step out and deal with the midfielders setting up between the lines. When you have 2 CBs and playing a man down, there is always a 3v2 situation in the midfield. Putting another CM seems to resolve that, yes? Well, it doesn’t, because you have to then sacrifice a wide player, which gives them a numerical advantage with attacking fullbacks. There is no easy solution. Ole chose to reinforce the middle, have the fullbacks work extra hard, but also concede crosses into the box (because you can’t cover all areas of weakness), betting that Maguire and Varane would head away danger. It mostly worked, but the Shaw deflection bounced into the path of the attacker.
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Pogba and Bruno give the ball away the most even in 11v11 situations. We just deal with it because we're not outnumbered and can counter-press and let them try a worldy pass again and again. To do that in 10v11 situation is suicide. Literally anyone with any basic knowledge of the game knows that you need to pack the midfield when you're down a man but Ole took off two midfielders for two defenders. Sorry but there's no defending his decisions against Young Boys, it was a shambles.
 
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