Ralph Hasenhüttl

tomaldinho1

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RUCK4444 said:
I wouldn’t say it is. There is far more pressure trying to keep an awful, awful team in the PL than there is at a mid table club like Southampton who are just happy to be in the league. What pressure is there at Southampton? They are very well run, never really in danger of getting relegated, decent squad and youth setup, and if they go on a good run you get a pat on the back. They have had decent spells under multiple managers.

Likewise the pressure at United is infinitely more than Southampton.

Have you seen that Cardiff team? And more importantly the owner, who at that time was at his pinnacle of shithousery, Cardiff are continually on a constant cycle of destruction, it was the absolutely worst possible job for Ole to take on at that time. Absolute hiding to nothing, no matter who the manager.

That’s not me making excuses for Ole, I don’t believe any manager was keeping that Cardiff side in the PL. How they were promoted in the first place beggars belief tbh.
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I feel like you are thinking of pre takeover Southampton. They were going into administration a decade ago until Liebherr saved then they fought their way back up to the PL. Poch then saved them from relegation and they spent heavily (for them) breaking their transfer record multiple times to get players like Wanyama and Osvaldo. Koeman then came in, he lost players but he also spent a lot of money on players like VVD, Mane, Clasie, Long, Tadic, Firster, Pelle and continued to improve on Poch's time there. That was their peak and they got EL football in 2016. Then came Puel (who almost beat us in the cup final) & then the takeover. They are now a very different animal.

Since then they've sunk down the league; Hughes saved them from relegation, then got sacked, Hasenhuttl saved them from relegation and then had a great season last year. The difference is Poch, Koeman even Puel actually spent a decent amount of money, Hasenhuttl is in his third season and has spent about £60m over his whole time there (that's what Puel spent in one season). Yes they have a good academy but that alone can't keep you in the PL (particularly when the best players are poached) and they are well run, in the same way United is a well run business. I'm sure their owners are extremely happy but they are relegation fighting team, last season's success just masks their issues.
 

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Disappointing how it's gone last few weeks. Needs to beat Sheffield united at weekend and perhaps they can have strong run in like last year given they've got most of the key players back now.
 

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tomaldinho1 said:
They're mates and studied their badges together, neither worked for the other. You might be confusing him with Tuchel (who didn't work for Klopp but followed his exact path from Mainz to Dortmund).
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I knew about Tuchel but for some reason I thought they worked together at Mainz.
 

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tomaldinho1 said:
I feel like you are thinking of pre takeover Southampton. They were going into administration a decade ago until Liebherr saved then they fought their way back up to the PL. Poch then saved them from relegation and they spent heavily (for them) breaking their transfer record multiple times to get players like Wanyama and Osvaldo. Koeman then came in, he lost players but he also spent a lot of money on players like VVD, Mane, Clasie, Long, Tadic, Firster, Pelle and continued to improve on Poch's time there. That was their peak and they got EL football in 2016. Then came Puel (who almost beat us in the cup final) & then the takeover. They are now a very different animal.

Since then they've sunk down the league; Hughes saved them from relegation, then got sacked, Hasenhuttl saved them from relegation and then had a great season last year. The difference is Poch, Koeman even Puel actually spent a decent amount of money, Hasenhuttl is in his third season and has spent about £60m over his whole time there (that's what Puel spent in one season). Yes they have a good academy but that alone can't keep you in the PL (particularly when the best players are poached) and they are well run, in the same way United is a well run business. I'm sure their owners are extremely happy but they are relegation fighting team, last season's success just masks their issues.
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I’m not downplaying what he’s done at Southampton, the poster made an argument that we should compare Ole at Cardiff to Ralph at Southampton, which are two entirely different prospects.

When I first posted on this I wasn’t looking to downplay what he’s done at Southampton but just pointing out it was a bit silly of posters to say we should get rid of Ole and bring Ralph in.
 

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tomaldinho1 said:
I agree there's a weird cult on here that seem to relish him struggling and then a counter group who back him too much - the reality is our only experience of him in the PL is with So'ton and so it's bizarre to even pretend we should compare United and them. However, for me, you can't really compare his pre So'ton experience with Ole pre United, he'd managed successfully in the BL and had CL experience.

I also agree with your point about So'ton being well run but I think that takes away from how difficult it is for a coach to 'succeed' in the eyes of neutral fans there. Their business model is excellent but I'm not sure it's actually beneficial for a manager if the aim is to finish as high as possible in the league, their setup is geared towards long term PL survival and then developing and selling players. If I look at their team from a completely unbiased perspective, they have one of the thinnest and weakest teams in the PL - any player of real quality is taken from them (this affects all their coaches not just Hasenhuttl) and they are never replaced: Hojberg, Tadic, Soares, Van Dijk, Mane, Lallana, Wanyama have all left in the last what 4 years and you can argue a number of them are genuinely world class players.

I'm of the opinion that football doesn't really have any managers any more at the highest level, you have a large management team and then you have the coaching staff. That is why the successful coaches of recent times tend to be tactically innovative or dogmatic in their approach, as teams get more even from a sports science and general fitness perspective you either have to outspend your rivals or out think them, ideally both. The managers people rate now are all hands on and highly tactical (Allegri, Conte, Simeone, Pep, Klopp, Poch even people like Gasperini, Tuchel, Nagelsmann) you simply have to be well versed in a style (and there are many) and be able to transfer that style to players to have any kind of chance. Hasenhuttl unequivocally ticks this box and so the risk is there - look at Koeman at Everton - but then so is the potential reward for a bigger club who can give him a deeper squad.

Pumpkin carriage rolls up, the crowd wait with baited breath, the door opens and a veiny and hairy leg steps out wearing high heeled glittering heels....it's Rebekah Vardy David Moyes!
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Haha. Nice twist at the end.

I agreeabout not comparing Hasnhüttl and Solskjær pre their current positions. And after. Off course, to a degree, that was what the United apparatus probably did when hiring Soslkjær, although their hand was also forced by Solskjærs start.

i do think people tend to conflate thinking and tactics in football with Rigidity of organization at the moment, with the popular Meme of The Clear Playing Style. Hasenhüttl definitively has one, though, so it will be interesting to follow his next move.
 

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Inigo Montoya said:
I doubt looking at his record at present that Spurs are going to trust him after appointing Jose. They'll be after a big or up and coming hipster
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Certainly would be a "riskier" approach by Levy but I feel that after appointing way-past-it Mourinho taking them nowehere byuing a lot of dross I bet he will try to bring in a more proggressive coach and there is not many more left out there. Hussenhuttl has a pretty terrible squad. lately he hasn´t done well but overall Spurs is just the same case just one tier up. He could get the best out of Kane and Son like he does that with Ings and overal get the rest of the above average palyers play better. Poch also came from Soton with a similar profile. We´ll see though.
 

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Seems to me that every time Walker-Peters plays they stand more of a chance of keeping a clean sheet. I don't really watch their games, but he's looked tidy on the few occasions I've seen him.
 

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Are the two exclusive? I don’t remember the likes of John Terry, Rio Ferdinand, Tony Adams getting bullied or lacking leadership abilities even in their teens. Let’s get a young CB who can lead and dominate.
 

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They always seems to be up against us. Whether they actually get the results is a different matter but with the quality of players they does some impressive pressing. It's a Gen Gen pressing at the extreme .
 

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He dresses like a newly single middle aged man.
 

bond19821982

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Guy is so underrated because he is managing a dull Southampton team. Always knows how to handle big games. Surprised that no other team went for him. Everton, Spurs, Wolves all would have been brilliant under him.

Would still be my choice, if Ole leaves, whenever that is. With Ronaldo around, we can't play his high pressing game . So that's an obvious issue though.
 

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bond19821982 said:
Guy is so underrated because he is managing a dull Southampton team. Always knows how to handle big games. Surprised that no other team went for him. Everton, Spurs, Wolves all would have been brilliant under him.

Would still be my choice, if Ole leaves, whenever that is. With Ronaldo around, we can't play his high pressing game . So that's an obvious issue though.
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seriously him?
 

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bond19821982 said:
Guy is so underrated because he is managing a dull Southampton team. Always knows how to handle big games. Surprised that no other team went for him. Everton, Spurs, Wolves all would have been brilliant under him.

Would still be my choice, if Ole leaves, whenever that is. With Ronaldo around, we can't play his high pressing game . So that's an obvious issue though.
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I'm actually surprised Spurs went for Nuno instead of him. He seemed like the perfect appointment, yet got overlooked. I'd still want to see how he performs in a club with a higher budget. So far we've only seen him at Leipzig and he was a big hit other there.

I still think he needs to manage a bigger club before he can take over from Ole.
 

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Caesar2290 said:
I'm actually surprised Spurs went for Nuno instead of him. He seemed like the perfect appointment, yet got overlooked. I'd still want to see how he performs in a club with a higher budget. So far we've only seen him at Leipzig and he was a big hit other there.

I still think he needs to manage a bigger club before he can take over from Ole.
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The 9-0's have made him tainted for big clubs. It's not fair but it is what it is. Any downturn of form and the 9-0 would be the stick everyone would beat him with.
 

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bond19821982 said:
Guy is so underrated because he is managing a dull Southampton team. Always knows how to handle big games. Surprised that no other team went for him. Everton, Spurs, Wolves all would have been brilliant under him.

Would still be my choice, if Ole leaves, whenever that is. With Ronaldo around, we can't play his high pressing game . So that's an obvious issue though.
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Well... Almost always.
 

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Tbh I never understand why some rate this guy so high. I still remember the away match last season when they're up 2-0 thanked to a corner and a free kick. Then lost the match 3-2 in the second half. Imo that's not an indication for a good coach. A good coach definitely should have managed to react and at least got a draw. It's not like they had a bad team anyway.
 

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Strelok said:
Tbh I never understand why some rate this guy so high. I still remember the away match last season when they're up 2-0 thanked to a corner and a free kick. Then lost the match 3-2 in the second half. Imo that's not an indication for a good coach. A good coach definitely should have managed to react and at least got a draw. It's not like they had a bad team anyway.
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Honestly, go look at the spending and sales under the new owner and then just appreciate how difficult it must be to simply keep them up. People need to start understanding the difference in quality and players since Poch and Koeman were there (before the sale). I don’t know if they’ll survive again this season, they’ve lost almost all their good players now (Vestergaard, Ings, Bertrand, Hojberg) but it’s so evident he’s a good hands on coach, inferior players slot into the system seamlessly and they are a really functional unit for the overall quality they have.
 

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Strelok said:
Tbh I never understand why some rate this guy so high. I still remember the away match last season when they're up 2-0 thanked to a corner and a free kick. Then lost the match 3-2 in the second half. Imo that's not an indication for a good coach. A good coach definitely should have managed to react and at least got a draw. It's not like they had a bad team anyway.
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He plays the high pressing style and hipster journos think that is the most important thing right now.

Very tactical naive imo. If plan A does not work it goes bad usually or even extremely bad, setting up negative records. Very one dimensional.
 

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tomaldinho1 said:
Honestly, go look at the spending and sales under the new owner and then just appreciate how difficult it must be to simply keep them up. People need to start understanding the difference in quality and players since Poch and Koeman were there (before the sale). I don’t know if they’ll survive again this season, they’ve lost almost all their good players now (Vestergaard, Ings, Bertrand, Hojberg) but it’s so evident he’s a good hands on coach, inferior players slot into the system seamlessly and they are a really functional unit for the overall quality they have.
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Tbh I don't know much about them but imo it's not true that they've lost all of their good players. For example I'd swap our midfield with theirs in a heart beat. They got Armstrong this season who is a very decent player imo. Walcott on a free. And I was fecking impressed with Livramento when we faced them few weeks ago. Lad got a really bright future.

jackal&hyde said:
He plays the high pressing style and hipster journos think that is the most important thing right now.

Very tactical naive imo. If plan A does not work it goes bad usually or even extremely bad, setting up negative records. Very one dimensional.
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Yeah that's my impression too. He seems to be a good squad builder but imo pretty naive tactically.
 

tomaldinho1

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Strelok said:
Tbh I don't know much about them but imo it's not true that they've lost all of their good players. For example I'd swap our midfield with theirs in a heart beat. They got Armstrong this season who is a very decent player imo. Walcott on a free. And I was fecking impressed with Livramento when we faced them few weeks ago. Lad got a really bright future.
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Don’t know much about them but manager is overrated…

You would genuinely swap their modified for ours? Are you serious? JWP is a class all round player (surely some credit goes to the coach there?) but Pogba, Bruno, Fred, McT, VdB etc. So you don’t rate him because they bought a cheap young player you do rate?Armstrong, Adam’s it’s all Championship cheap players he gets playing in a system & they are getting all their age groups to play the same system.

Walcott is terrible, as in genuinely bottom PL, more Championship level.

Re system, either he goes Big Sam style or they offensive press, I know which I think is ‘harder’ to coach. Think of all the positive press Nagelsman gets, he never beat Hasenhuttl’s points total with RBL even with all the players he acquired.
 

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tomaldinho1 said:
Don’t know much about them but manager is overrated…

You would genuinely swap their modified for ours? Are you serious? JWP is a class all round player (surely some credit goes to the coach there?) but Pogba, Bruno, Fred, McT, VdB etc. So you don’t rate him because they bought a cheap young player you do rate?Armstrong, Adam’s it’s all Championship cheap players he gets playing in a system & they are getting all their age groups to play the same system.

Walcott is terrible, as in genuinely bottom PL, more Championship level.

Re system, either he goes Big Sam style or they offensive press, I know which I think is ‘harder’ to coach. Think of all the positive press Nagelsman gets, he never beat Hasenhuttl’s points total with RBL even with all the players he acquired.
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Surely I'd swap McFred for JWP and Romelu. Romelu is a cnut but an useful cnut.

You're trying to make them look much worse than what they really are I think. Vardy came from Championship too, so of course he's at Championship level.

I said he seems to be a good squad builder so I do rate him in this perspective. But tactically imo he's a bit naive. You completely missed the point here and overlooked my argument regarding the away match against us last season. Or the 9-0 match. He lost a man surely, but to lose 9-0 and got beaten 3-2 in the second half after leading 2-0? I don't think you can say he's good tactically after that. A tactically sound coach would never let that happened.

Btw you seem a bit angry defending him so my guess you're a big fan. We better stop here I think there's simply no use in arguing with a fan.
 
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bond19821982

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Strelok said:
Tbh I don't know much about them but imo it's not true that they've lost all of their good players. For example I'd swap our midfield with theirs in a heart beat. They got Armstrong this season who is a very decent player imo. Walcott on a free. And I was fecking impressed with Livramento when we faced them few weeks ago. Lad got a really bright future.


Yeah that's my impression too. He seems to be a good squad builder but imo pretty naive tactically.
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Wow, that's a stretch. Southampton midfield over ours ? Seriously? Paul, Donny, Matic, Fred, McT are our midfield options. So you will take JWP ,Romeu, Diallo over them ?

Amen !!
 

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The fisting over this guy gets more intense and bizarre with every passing season
 

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Weird calling him a big game manager when his side conceded almost a couple dozen goals between the United and Leicester City games last season and he cries in post game interviews like he is on estrogen therapy every other month.
 

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Every season he starts well before fizzling out. He's handling a very average side and is obviously a good manager but nothing more than that is proven as of yet. I suppose the hype around him is because we've seen other candidates get far bigger jobs with far less of a reputation (Ole, Arteta, Lampard).
 

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Go easy on him, he was one of the original hipster managers and arguably opened the door for them.
 

tomaldinho1

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Strelok said:
Surely I'd swap McFred for JWP and Romelu. Romelu is a cnut but an useful cnut.

You're trying to make them look much worse than what they really are I think. Vardy came from Championship too, so of course he's at Championship level.

I said he seems to be a good squad builder so I do rate him in this perspective. But tactically imo he's a bit naive. You completely missed the point here and overlooked my argument regarding the away match against us last season. Or the 9-0 match. He lost a man surely, but to lose 9-0 and got beaten 3-2 in the second half after leading 2-0? I don't think you can say he's good tactically after that. A tactically sound coach would never let that happened.

Btw you seem a bit angry defending him so my guess you're a big fan. We better stop here I think there's simply no use in arguing with a fan.
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I like his system as I actually think it would suit United, if you look at what his RBL team were based on but I think your comment re swapping United’s midfield for Sotons was a bit ridiculous - if you’re now making it more specific re JWP and Romeu it makes more sense although Romeu was hardly looking amazing at Chelsea in my opinion, he just now has a very defined role.

No anger whatsoever. It’s interesting to debate with fans on them as their style is genuinely very interesting but I do think your original comment without context re swapping midfields was a bit loco. I am a fan but see his potential deficiencies as well. There’s a reason he does get on the end of some cricket scores and that’s because they always press. Would that be an issue at a top 6 club though or is it exacerbated by the level of squad he has? Naïve in some games, sure, but it’s worked so far for them.

Part of me thinks there’s a contingent on here who think any pressing system is ‘hipster’ and therefore bad (despite Ole saying we would build a press when he arrived) and some who are annoyed he was linked, very very briefly, with the United job. I doubt he was ever seriously considered but that was enough to put him in the bad books of the brigade I’ll affectionately call the ‘Poch Blockers’.
 

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He has his flaws but his team is trash. To keep them up 3 years in a row is an achievement, I think apart from Norwich Southampton are the only team with a negative net spent for the last 5 years.
Still, he's hanging a bit in a vacuum, he's stuck with Soton with owners who apparently have no interest to invest and are happy as long as he keeps them in the Prem, no top team will rightfully go for him and most of the "middle" teams like Everton, Arsenal or Spurs have rattled fanbases that will probably only accept big names (like Ancelotti, Emery) or young new shiny "talented" managers.
 

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bond19821982 said:
Guy is so underrated because he is managing a dull Southampton team. Always knows how to handle big games. Surprised that no other team went for him. Everton, Spurs, Wolves all would have been brilliant under him.

Would still be my choice, if Ole leaves, whenever that is. With Ronaldo around, we can't play his high pressing game . So that's an obvious issue though.
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I'll tell you who is underrated - Graham Potter, ( probably because he's English) but that's for another thread.
 

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They seem to have changed their shape defensively and it’s really paying off for them.

Really liking the look of Armstrong too. Think they’ll be absolutely fine.

He had a point about the Walker decision too. While I think it was soft, once it’s given I don’t really see that it’s clear and obvious error to the extent it can be overturned.
 

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Nickelodeon said:
The 9-0's have made him tainted for big clubs. It's not fair but it is what it is. Any downturn of form and the 9-0 would be the stick everyone would beat him with.
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But does it matter? SAF got hammered 6-1 at OT, 5-0 at Newcastle and Chelsea and I can go on. At the end of the day it's only 3 points.


What can not be downstated is that he is doing an amazing job in keeping Soton up and actually being enjoyable to watch. And unlike someone like Moyes or Big Sam who are good at managing small teams, but crumble when they have to manage bigger clubs, Ralph has show in his Leipzig stint that he knows how to take a bigger club to it's next step. Hence why I'm surprised that a bigger club didn't take a gamble on him. At the end of the day it's how Spurs got Poch.

Strelok said:
Tbh I never understand why some rate this guy so high. I still remember the away match last season when they're up 2-0 thanked to a corner and a free kick. Then lost the match 3-2 in the second half. Imo that's not an indication for a good coach. A good coach definitely should have managed to react and at least got a draw. It's not like they had a bad team anyway.
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You mean that 3-2 that we won last year? Tbf we won it at the death in injury time. Comebacks are a part of sport so I don't see an issue with what you said. I remember Ralph saying he would hear the celebrations and would think that we won the PL. You know, despite him being a sore loser, stuff like this would have never happened under SAF. Players would never celebrate winning 3 points and the fact that he pointed it out shows his winning mentality in my book.

The fact that his Soton team can go toe to toe with teams 10X the value is quiet an achievement. This whole idea that he only has 1 plan is just nonsense. Look at the current itteration of Soton. They are very solid defensively. They took points of City and us(the only team to do this so far this season). The man is very adaptable, but he is very short on resources hence why I think he needs to move to a bigger team before we can trully judge him.
 
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