One management lesson is that don't try to fix something that ain't broken. Ole tried to change Bruno's position in last 3 matches. It worked against Leeds and he flopped in rest two. His position is pure #10, not false 9 or striker. Additionally, when we are not playing double pivot or the team getting badly pressed then he needs to be deep lying playmaker (until we get a proper CDM). This is what we did througout last 1.5 years and it worked like charm. Team looked balanced, we played free flowing football. I hope Ole doesn't try to fit a new system just for the sake of experimenting.
Can Bruno continue in the same position with Ronaldo in our 1st xi?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Against well organized defense, we put up more number up front and Pogba becomes the link. How well we execute it is a different matter.
The idea is that if the defense is well organized, playing with one striker would not do much to that makes sense for some too.
Pros and cons , explained from Newcastle match
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If I didn't know better, I'd say you're accusing Ole of having distinct patterns of play.Isn't that true even if we play 4-3-3 with 3 midfielders as CM should be in the position to progress the play and also support attacking players in more advanced positions? If we go strictly by positions on paper then 4-3-3 will have only 3 attackers. On pitch it will be very different, Bruno always make attacking runs from deep and if you see his heat map, he covers lot of pitch. Bruno won't be in 2 places at once but he will be all over the pitch dropping deep, beating offside traps, drifting wide.
Also I don't remember us playing rigid play style, at least under Ole. We play Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood as attacking 3 with either Martial or Cavani as CF. CFs always drift wide and players like Rashford, Greenwood make attacking runs into the box. Bruno pops up next to AWB to cross the ball, sometimes makes the run beating offside trap and then he is next to Rashford and Shaw playing short passes.
Also when it comes to defensive phase, Bruno will be the most advanced player, that's how we have set up all the time. He presses more than any player we have (maybe except Fred) and he always takes up very advanced position to press the GKs and defenders. If we are talking about our general defensive set up then we usually leave at least one wide player higher up the pitch as an outlet for counters along with CF.
Reading back, I'm not sure if what I posted is really a proper reply to your posted but just wanted to post it anyways
Leaving all this, when was the last time we saw 4-2-3-1 shape on the pitch when we attacked? All I'm trying to say is, when we attack, our players have the freedom to move all over the place, so the space left by Ronaldo won't be occupied by only Bruno. Rashford, Greenwood also does that. Forget attackers, even our CMs make attacking runs into the box all the time.
Seriously, though, our 4-2-3-1 usually becomes a 2-5-3 or 2-4-4... -ish... on attack. Maybe Luke or Aaron hangs back with the CBs... or they hang back and one of the CBs moves up.
I think the idea of rigid formations is overblown myself, and I prefer the 4-2-3-1 over the 4-3-3 anyway. I think it's more flexible. Once the ball starts moving around, you have to adjust to reality.
Both.
Bruno prior to the Euros generally played deeper for Portugal than for us, and had good performances. However at the Euros he played much higher up the pitch and was ineffectual, and was subsequently tried deeper to similar effect.
or the UK?
Performance-wise, Pogba is undroppable right now for United
Hopefully first of many for these 2.
Maybe santos is a shit coach
So it's just 3 games but they have done very well, created few good chances for Ronaldo and few near misses.
Bruno had around 0.86 xA vs West Ham and almost all of it was created for Ronaldo
Bruno had around 0.86 xA vs West Ham and almost all of it was created for Ronaldo
Yesterday was a good game to observe them. It looks like Bruno is dropping further back now - do heat maps back that up?
Heat map for Wolves and West Ham game is almost same, but when it comes to number of passes, West Ham game was the game with highest number of passes this season for Bruno.
https://www.sofascore.com/player/bruno-fernandes/288205
You can click on individual games.
Also Ronaldo drops deep all the time, so maybe that helps too.
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Cheers. Interesting that it seemed to work last game - certainly wasn't any cause for concern going by the eye test, anyway.
For whatever reasons both these seem to improve their end product when the other isn't on the pitch. Ronaldo in the home games against Burnley and Spurs. Bruno against Leeds at home, Villa away and a few times after Ronaldo has been subbed off (Brentford and Leeds away). But when they play together they are on a mission of missing the biggest sitters. The sharp focus seems to be missing when they play together.
So how do we start getting the best out of both?
So how do we start getting the best out of both?
Yeah, thought the same after Bruno's hattrick against City last week.
Said this when Ronaldo signed:
But his non-penalty xG has actually been slightly better this season in spite of that so I dunno. Going by the stats the main difference for Bruno since Ronaldo arrived is simply being off penalties and free-kicks.
And in a sense that has played out in that Bruno's shots per game has indeed dropped from 3.19 to 2.50. Or if you prefer 93rd percentile to 67th.
But his non-penalty xG has actually been slightly better this season in spite of that so I dunno. Going by the stats the main difference for Bruno since Ronaldo arrived is simply being off penalties and free-kicks.
Ok.
Bruno has missed 2 games. Ronaldo has 4 goals and 1 assist in those including a hat-trick.
Ronaldo has missed 5 games. Bruno has 5 goals in those including a hat-trick. On top of that Bruno has 3 assists when Ronaldo was on the bench.
So pretty much close to half of their attacking returns in the league have come without the other on the pitch. That's pretty damning considering the fact that they're on the pitch together for vast majority of time.
I think it's just a case of small sample size and bad luck. As you said, they've been missing sitters galore. It'll change.
I would say that Bruno not playing meant our midfield was a bit more solid than when he was playing.
Also, they set up some sitters for each other and almost all of them were missed as you said. It is just that we have been pretty shit in front of goal in general.
Based on the last match, not at all.
Would it have made any difference today considering he would have played where Pogba did and pogba didn't do anything, I think the issue is midfield and positioning.
when you have Bruno and CR7 on the field there are going to be a lot of shots ( on or off target) which means possession lost a lot more than goals scored. Invariably these will turn into possession turnovers and or counters. which our midfield ( Mc Fred) is not capable of stopping or controlling. Mct more the problem than Fred. If we have 1 proper midfield destroyer or even a Matic 5 years ago would make thing so much better.
when you have Bruno and CR7 on the field there are going to be a lot of shots ( on or off target) which means possession lost a lot more than goals scored. Invariably these will turn into possession turnovers and or counters. which our midfield ( Mc Fred) is not capable of stopping or controlling. Mct more the problem than Fred. If we have 1 proper midfield destroyer or even a Matic 5 years ago would make thing so much better.
drop bruno a play ronaldo
Couldn't disagree more. We had 42% possession, Tottenham made the best chances (1.02 vs 1.62 xG) and they dominated us in midfield.
There's a big gap in our heatmap where Bruno would normally be. We missed him a lot.
Regarding the gap, I agree. I thought we were pretty tame in terms of creativity and taking risks. At times no one tried to press their defenders to force them to pass sooner which Bruno would have. And the midfield was still getting cut through like no one was playing there.Couldn't disagree more. We had 42% possession, Tottenham made the best chances (1.02 vs 1.62 xG) and they dominated us in midfield.
There's a big gap in our heatmap where Bruno would normally be. We missed him a lot.
It is not what I felt. Yes the midfield was getting cut up but because Pogba did not push as forward as Bruno does there was always Pogba around the middle of the pitch. The fact he may not have done much does not deny the fact that he occupied that space where Bruno normally vacates and pushes forward. In reality Pogba did not have a horrible game. He did not have a good game.
Hypothetically if we got more performances like yesterday from fred on a more consistent basis but meant dropping bruno to do so, would you be for it as it looked like fred was given more license to roam forward without bruno being the usual one playing in those areas?
I don't think you can read anything from Ronaldo scoring a screamer, a tap in and header from a corner.
We were poor yesterday for the majority of the game.
We were poor yesterday for the majority of the game.
I've been saying it for ages....give Bruno a run on the wing. He is not a midfielder. I bet he will score and assist more if he was playing out wide and it's a position that nobody seems to want to nail down..
If we don't buy a RW in the summer it could be an option. Poch for example used Eriksen in a slightly wide role.
Fernandes absolutely cannot play out wide, even attempting to play him as a floating playmaker. He’s too slow and cannot dribble to save his life. He’s hopeless in isolated scenarios against a defender.
Reviving this thread based on one game has the same vibes as when people decided Maguire and Lindelof were our best centreback partnership based on us only conceding two goals against Leeds.
Ronaldo is always going to have the potential to win a game on his own, because he's Ronaldo. If anything the rest probably did him good. He's looked tired and off the pace for over a month prior to that and I doubt Fernandes has much of a bearing on that.
Ronaldo is always going to have the potential to win a game on his own, because he's Ronaldo. If anything the rest probably did him good. He's looked tired and off the pace for over a month prior to that and I doubt Fernandes has much of a bearing on that.
You're just making stuff up now. He used to play wide at times for Sporting...
Eh, making what up? Fernandes isn’t particularly fast. He’s also extremely poor at dribbling. It’s probably his worst trait. He averages 0.62 dribbles per 90 and attempts 1.36 dribbles per 90 minutes. Those stats put him in the 2nd and 3rd bottom percentile in the entire PL. That means there are 98% of attacking midfielders/wingers who attempt and complete more dribbles per 90 minutes than Fernandes. He dribbles past 0.74 players per 90, which again puts him in the bottom 3rd percentile. I’m not making anything up here, it’s just facts.
Also, according to Transfermarkt he played out wide (on the left) 3 times his whole career at Sporting.
Lastly, not to mention, Fernandes is right footed so even if this absurdly stupid idea was to come to fruition it would be yet another left winger.
With Pogba in there instead?
Would it have been any less solid switching those 2?
Probably more solid due to Fred having a turbo charged blinder and Matic in there.
You don't need to be fast to play on the wing and dribbling is over rated. Pass and move, pass and move. We have too much dependence on people "taking guys on". How about we get someone on the wing who can put in a good cross for guys like Ronaldo to get on the end of. As it stands, none of our wide players put in good crosses. Bruno can...Eh, making what up? Fernandes isn’t particularly fast. He’s also extremely poor at dribbling. It’s probably his worst trait. He averages 0.62 dribbles per 90 and attempts 1.36 dribbles per 90 minutes. Those stats put him in the 2nd and 3rd bottom percentile in the entire PL. That means there are 98% of attacking midfielders/wingers who attempt and complete more dribbles per 90 minutes than Fernandes. He dribbles past 0.74 players per 90, which again puts him in the bottom 3rd percentile. I’m not making anything up here, it’s just facts.
Also, according to Transfermarkt he played out wide (on the left) 3 times his whole career at Sporting.
Lastly, not to mention, Fernandes is right footed so even if this absurdly stupid idea was to come to fruition it would be yet another left winger.