Surely he can start a couple of them in some league games to rest players? Our whole game plan should not collapse just because of one or two players.
LC L League Cup 3rd Round
Manchester United 0:1 West Ham United
Post-match discussion
Wed, 22 September 2021
That quote about the slow start is just irritating. He says it again and again and says again and again we must do something about it. Well do something about it then.
Who cares about Alcopops cup anyway.
How that ref did not give us a penalty for Noble dragging down Lingard should be investigated. He's either blind as a bat or he's been bought. Either way he should not be reffing at this level. Ridiculous. This fat fool gets that right and it's a game we win*.
Also, feck Noble.
(*I'd think the momentum would have swung in our favor. I realize it would have been 1-1 if converted.)
Also, feck Noble.
(*I'd think the momentum would have swung in our favor. I realize it would have been 1-1 if converted.)
I think Ole did the right thing regarding the lineup.We talked so many times how we need a strong bench (like City have), so he rested all the key players and gave a chance to those who need games to adapt (like Jadon), or after long absence (Hendo,Telles) and gave minutes to VDB (we all called for it), or simply to try to see if there is any hope for some of them (Martial, but I don't think he will ever be useful to us again, especially with the competition he has). But still, we should of win this, and the fact that we always need 10-20 minutes (that slow start) to actually do anything after the first whistle is a constant problem, especially if the opponents exploit this and score first
And I agree with DomesticTadpole, I don't care about CarabaoCup, but Ole will now has even less opportunities to rotate.
And I agree with DomesticTadpole, I don't care about CarabaoCup, but Ole will now has even less opportunities to rotate.
We are already out of one cup. If Ole wins something this year it could be a blessing in disguise, as we will have less games to play. If we bottle it in other comps too, then Ole is in a big trouble.
You would hope so, but PL games are usually pretty difficult and some of them I would not trust in an U-23 game. Matic will get starts, Sancho will get more time, Lindelof will get games. Hendo will probably get a chance now and again. Bailly it depends which Bailly you get. Donny did himself some good tonight, but it depends which job you want him to do and who you pair him with. Jesse has his uses ( I would have kept him on). The likes of Mata ( still has a good brain, but the games is just too quick and physical for him now), Martial, Telles and Dalot ( is ok as long as you don't want him to defend) are a problem.
Wow you need to copyright that…
That was really the downside to losing this game. Carabao could have given some much needed minutes to the reserves.
I think some don’t really need or deserve starts. Like Mata (due to age, no shame), Bailly (can only blame himself for being so unpredictable, and imo he’s nowhere close to the other three CBs in terms of reliability), Martial (until he sorts himself out, or maybe give him a chance on the left in some games). I think Telles and Dalot can start some easier games as long as they don’t both start together, the tactics can be tweaked to account for their respective strengths and weaknesses. I wouldn’t judge them too harshly right now as they’ve both barely played at all. Jesse will likely be a frequent sub, so will still get substantial game time.
We lost so you can triple the amount of responses you would normally expect.
I get the impression Ole treated this one as a bit of a free hit, letting the largely second string 11 try and prove themselves and giving minutes to the likes of Sancho.
All it demonstrated was the gulf in class between our first 11 and the back ups, especially at full back… eeesh.
Dalot and Telles could have been signed during the LVG years, random average players whose only qualification for being signed by United is that they played in the position we needed at the time.
If the FM/FIFA nutters were in charge our team would be full of them, players like this are “hidden gems” for a reason.
On the plus side, that’s the first time I’ve been impressed by DVB, and Jesse while not hugely effective looks to have his confidence back.
Also, how does John Moss have a job. Incredible how he can be in that sort of shape and be employed at the highest level of his profession, he’d look more at place reffing Sunday league.
Yeah, I don't think we need this match to know this. Most people already know this since last year.
I agree with noodle here, why giving them a chance when you know they'll get you nothing? Greenwood hasn't played much this past week and he's a subs? He also needs matches to keep his form going. You leave him out too long then you risked him of going cold and lose that form
He’s not going to get cold mate. He’s had loads of minutes this season.
The problem I had was that we knew about Martial in the first half so keeping him in because he felt he was a CF was a joke. Elanga should have been in earlier
Take away for me is that VDB played better than i hoped for. Certainly can replace Fred in the midfield two . His passes were direct and forward which i'm pleased about.
Given the choice last weekend, I'd have taken the three points ahead progressing in this competition on the grounds that we were unlikely to get past the semi-final stage given we don't play our full-strength side (and look who West Ham have drawn in round 4). It's a fairly meaningless competition unless you actually win it (the level of excitement at going through doesn't sit on the same level as FA Cup or Europa, for instance).
That said there were some worrying things: it shows our squad still isn't really deep enough - this wan't West Ham's
first team either. Lots of people are blaming Donny for losing his man, but Telles was skinned every time in the first 20 mins and was appalling for the goal. I thought Donny had a pretty good game and deserves more playing time. I think he might be one o f those who gets better, the more he plays.
But yet again you have to question Ole: if you are chasing the game and in need of a goal, why the hell do you keep Martial on the field for 90 mins? If he was still there now, with everyone else gone home, I'm not sure he'd score. He didn't even look interested. Name any other manager who would have kept him on the park - Jose certainly would have hauled him off and so would SAF.
Elsewhere, there were some decent performances: Henderson didn't put a foot wrong and made two big saves at the end, Lindelof was faultless and Lingard had a pretty good game. Greenwood looked sharp when he came on but he should have been playing through the middle instead of martial at that stage.
Sancho showed flashes but, of course, we need a lot more from him. I think this is on of the slowest starts to an OT career in recent memory.
Of course, the whole thing might have been different had Jon Moss actually known the rules - trying to remove an opponent's shorts in the penalty is not usually allowed!
That said there were some worrying things: it shows our squad still isn't really deep enough - this wan't West Ham's
first team either. Lots of people are blaming Donny for losing his man, but Telles was skinned every time in the first 20 mins and was appalling for the goal. I thought Donny had a pretty good game and deserves more playing time. I think he might be one o f those who gets better, the more he plays.
But yet again you have to question Ole: if you are chasing the game and in need of a goal, why the hell do you keep Martial on the field for 90 mins? If he was still there now, with everyone else gone home, I'm not sure he'd score. He didn't even look interested. Name any other manager who would have kept him on the park - Jose certainly would have hauled him off and so would SAF.
Elsewhere, there were some decent performances: Henderson didn't put a foot wrong and made two big saves at the end, Lindelof was faultless and Lingard had a pretty good game. Greenwood looked sharp when he came on but he should have been playing through the middle instead of martial at that stage.
Sancho showed flashes but, of course, we need a lot more from him. I think this is on of the slowest starts to an OT career in recent memory.
Of course, the whole thing might have been different had Jon Moss actually known the rules - trying to remove an opponent's shorts in the penalty is not usually allowed!
I saw positives in that match even though we lost.
Second half Sancho played with more speed and freedom. He took more risks with the ball. He is taking some time to bed in and this match helped. One bit he tried shooting through a player's legs in the box, almost pulled it off. He needs to play with less hesitation. The minute he scores, he's going to come out of his shell.
VDB is a different type of player than we've had recently but he covered every blade of grass, put in some meaty challenges, and in my mind made a case that he should play over Fred. I know he's more of Bruno type player but he showed alongside Matic that he can do both. I'd play him with McT.
I really liked Matic kneeing that fecker in the groin. Then he raked someone else's shins with his studs. I like that Ole is a nice guy but I want our players to be bastards on the pitch.
Elanga had a good run out. It will do him a world of good for his confidence. It's a shame we won't progress because it is exactly what a player in his developmental stage needs.
Lingard proved useful. I'd leave him as a sub. He's got lots of pace and he can pull something out of a hat if he doesn't think about it too long.
Henderson had some really top shelf saves. At the end West Ham should have scored twice in like the final 5 minutes of regular time. Henderson shut them down really well.
I actually think Dalot offers more going forward than AWB. AWB is a better tackler but I would think Ole would rotate them based on what they were likely to face. We need more intent from the right, Dalot put in some early crosses (i.e., not waiting until he was already past the penalty area). AWB needs to do the same.
Second half Sancho played with more speed and freedom. He took more risks with the ball. He is taking some time to bed in and this match helped. One bit he tried shooting through a player's legs in the box, almost pulled it off. He needs to play with less hesitation. The minute he scores, he's going to come out of his shell.
VDB is a different type of player than we've had recently but he covered every blade of grass, put in some meaty challenges, and in my mind made a case that he should play over Fred. I know he's more of Bruno type player but he showed alongside Matic that he can do both. I'd play him with McT.
I really liked Matic kneeing that fecker in the groin. Then he raked someone else's shins with his studs. I like that Ole is a nice guy but I want our players to be bastards on the pitch.
Elanga had a good run out. It will do him a world of good for his confidence. It's a shame we won't progress because it is exactly what a player in his developmental stage needs.
Lingard proved useful. I'd leave him as a sub. He's got lots of pace and he can pull something out of a hat if he doesn't think about it too long.
Henderson had some really top shelf saves. At the end West Ham should have scored twice in like the final 5 minutes of regular time. Henderson shut them down really well.
I actually think Dalot offers more going forward than AWB. AWB is a better tackler but I would think Ole would rotate them based on what they were likely to face. We need more intent from the right, Dalot put in some early crosses (i.e., not waiting until he was already past the penalty area). AWB needs to do the same.
Ole has a 50 million pound player in a slump. The only way that player is getting out of that slump is to play his way back. We all said this was a meaningless competition, so it is perfect for this express purpose. Martial had some good runs and good touches. People would us think he took a fecking nap in the center circle from the comments on here. He linked well with Sancho several times, quick intricate passes. His shooting accuracy was off. But what the team needs is Martial as an option. He won't be starting many matches but when he's firing on all cylinders he is a great arrow to have in the quiver. I think playing with or training with Ronaldo is going to vastly improve his game because Martials' poaching needs work, i.e., his quick reactions and where he goes in an attack need help; Ronaldo can show him.
Don't get me wrong: if Martial wants to leave that would be the best for all concerned, IF we use that money to get a midfielder. Martial will proved competition for the left wing and offers something different (when he's in form) than the others out there. Plus he hates the Scousers.
With the exception of a few, this was essentially a shop window for those on the field. Most failed to show they were worth much on the transfer market especially the front players. At least some of these players won't be knocking on Ole's door demanding playing time anytime soon.
We had 27 shots apparently but only 1.5xG to 1.4xG. That tells a story.
I have not seen this mentioned. Taken from wikipedia.
Dropped ball:
All players of either side, other than the designated player, must be 4 metres (4.4 yd) away from the ball until it touches the ground.[1]
The ball becomes in play as soon as it touches the ground. No player may touch the ball until it has touched the ground. If the ball leaves the field of play before it has been touched by a player (including if the ball enters either goal), the drop-ball is retaken.
So, Bruno had every right to play the ball. Not even fair play rule can be invoked. He waited few seconds.
But:
A goal may not be scored from a dropped ball until it has been touched by two different players. If the ball enters either goal without having been touched by two players, the result is a goal-kick or corner-kick.
It is clear that even the referee did not knew the rules.
Dropped ball:
All players of either side, other than the designated player, must be 4 metres (4.4 yd) away from the ball until it touches the ground.[1]
The ball becomes in play as soon as it touches the ground. No player may touch the ball until it has touched the ground. If the ball leaves the field of play before it has been touched by a player (including if the ball enters either goal), the drop-ball is retaken.
So, Bruno had every right to play the ball. Not even fair play rule can be invoked. He waited few seconds.
But:
A goal may not be scored from a dropped ball until it has been touched by two different players. If the ball enters either goal without having been touched by two players, the result is a goal-kick or corner-kick.
It is clear that even the referee did not knew the rules.
What was the deal with idiotic fans shouting 'SHOOT' at every opportunity? They even done it with Dean Henderson in the last minute or so from 50 yards out. I understand it may be casuals at OT tonight, but that just doesn't help the team at all.
Oh do cheer up
Such a tough one for Ole in needing to play these guys to have some match condition but lugging them all together never really works. It needs to be a mixture of 6-7 starters and sprinkled with the bench. eg Hendo, Dalot, Varane, Maguire, Telles, Matic, Donny, McT, Martial, Mason and sancho.
What's wrong with 80+ points and knockout stages as a minimum? Do tell
Well we have squad depth but do we have quality in the depth to go on and win it with our second team. I don’t think so. And the fixtures will start to pile up around the festival season in my opinion. So it is better that we exit the league cup so we cam concentrate on the league and champions league and the FA cup.
Shit result.
Sancho missing for most of the game, Tony was terrible.
Only positives were Donny, and Dalot crossing the ball in from the right.
Sancho missing for most of the game, Tony was terrible.
Only positives were Donny, and Dalot crossing the ball in from the right.
Just play Elanga there ! The boy is so fast it’s unbelievable !Forks out I guess. The Ole out brigade will be in full strength
But we should sell Martial and look for another backup LB asap. Telles is probably as slow as the current Mata. If Shaw is injured we're fecked.
Dutch and German league are very different, being a top player there is not like in England, different sports
He also lost his man in the box that lead to them scoring. If he’s playing DM that one mistake is the reason we lost the game.
Well "give it to Ronnie" is not going to work when he doesn't play
lots of good players, lacking a system or organisation .... same as most games.
Give it to Cavani then, or Bruno. Logically we should still be able to play at least as well as we did last season without Ronaldo.
And yes, I’m also implying that we need a robust enough gameplan that dropping a couple of players won’t cause us to collapse.
In retrospect, should've started Bruno. Maybe not Dalot and Telles together. But the team should've been good enough to win.
Is 4-2-3-1 not a system? We were quite good yesterday considering the changes. The issue for me was martial and telles mainly.
maybe ole could have hooked martial and put Greenwood up top. But then again he was really good off the right.
People keep coming up with this formation and that formation. Obviously he sends them out to start in a formation. It is how they function in that formation which is the problem.
What was the problem last night then? We played quite well but lacked that quality striker to put it in the net. Martial was absolutely woeful. We also should have had a penalty when Lingard was pulled down.
Well we've played worse and still won but they got their goal and sat back until the last 15 minutes when the game got stretched and they should of scored another couple.
I think the worst part of the game is seeing just how bad Martial is, he needs to go in Jan, hopefully when Rashford is fit he won't get any game time.
I think the worst part of the game is seeing just how bad Martial is, he needs to go in Jan, hopefully when Rashford is fit he won't get any game time.
Yes we should have had a penalty. Martial was the problem. Ole has to stop mollycoddling him. Greenwood should have started and Lingard should have stayed on. For all the chances we had, the proportion on target is not good enough. He keeps saying about us starting slowly. It is like a stuck record. Then do something about it. Get on the touch line and get them going right from the start.
People moan and groan about Marcus, but he has played through the pain barrier for this team and puts a damn sight more effort in.
Man of the Match
Runners-up
-
18%
Mason Greenwood
-
12%
Dean Henderson
-
10%
Nemanja Matic
-
10%
Victor Lindelof
-
4%
Jesse Lingard
-
2%
Jadon Sancho
-
2%
Diogo Dalot
-
1%
Juan Mata
-
1%
Bruno Fernandes
-
1%
Eric Bailly
Player Ratings
Total Average Rating
Highest Rated Player
Lowest Rated Player
Compiled from 237 ratings.
Score Predictions
218,16,17
- Man Utd win
- West Ham win
- Draw
Detailed Results
- 25% Man Utd 2:0 West Ham
- 24% Man Utd 2:1 West Ham
- 10% Man Utd 3:1 West Ham
- 9% Man Utd 3:0 West Ham
- 8% Man Utd 1:0 West Ham
- 6% Man Utd 3:2 West Ham
- 5% Man Utd 1:1 West Ham
- 4% Man Utd 1:2 West Ham
- 2% Man Utd 4:0 West Ham
- 2% Man Utd 4:1 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 0:2 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 2:2 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 0:0 West Ham
- 1% Man Utd 5:0 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 1:3 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 0:1 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 0:5 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 2:3 West Ham
- 0% Man Utd 5:1 West Ham
Match Stats
- Man Utd
- West Ham
- Possession
- 61% 39%
- Shots
- 27 9
- Shots on Target
- 6 3
- Corners
- 7 5
- Fouls
- 4 6
Referee
Jonathan Moss
Man Utd Lineup
-
-
-
-
-
replaced by Anthony Elanga
-
replaced by Mason Greenwood
-
replaced by Bruno Fernandes
-
-
-
-
