I'm generally wary of goalkeepers trying even remotely risky passes. The ones they cock up almost always result in a great chance to score for the opponent. The risk vs reward just isn't there for me.
Do we need a modern goalkeeper?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
That season Ter Stegen, for example, was absolutely amazing (and it was a massive blunder for Löw to play the barely returned Neuer at the WC over Ter Stegen).
Don't get me wrong, De Gea is a fantastic goalkeeper and has had quite a few world class seasons, but to me he has clear, noticeable areas to his game, commanding the box, coming out of goal, and distribution, where he just isn't that great, to be called the best over other, more complete players. I think the conundrum described by OP in this thread is real.
Aren't they getting shorter as well? Making them worse shot stoppers. Tall and lanky usually doesn't go with being good passers of the ball. Though of course, there are exceptions to everything.
Ball playing keepers ae the prototype of the future. I coached a high rep team once and we had this ex midfielder converted to keeper. He was amazing with the feet and stopped so many through balls and could pass from it to our player 10 times out of 10. The defence loved him as they never really got caught flat footed as this kid would pounce in a flash. Sadly he was only 5 feet 10 but he made it to the national league 20's level. Don't underestimate a keeper who can pass the ball from danger into attack. I had better keepers who could command boxes and long stretch save but never a kid who could control the ball like him. When he left we ended up with a "gun" keeper but you had your heart in your mouth when he ran to clear it.
I'm actually hoping Radek Vitek who is about 18 is the one to bring through. He is six feet 5 already. In the 18's games I watched him he just took up most of the goal when arms were stretched but was quite athletic and made a few worldly saves. I see he is stuck behind Kovar in 23's and hoping he will get his chance. I think he can still play 18's so that is good.
I'm actually hoping Radek Vitek who is about 18 is the one to bring through. He is six feet 5 already. In the 18's games I watched him he just took up most of the goal when arms were stretched but was quite athletic and made a few worldly saves. I see he is stuck behind Kovar in 23's and hoping he will get his chance. I think he can still play 18's so that is good.
Absolutely yes. De Gea for me is vastly overrated and is a limited keeper and alway has been. I can't see us getting rid anytime soon so we'll have to keep him for now and maybe sell Henderson and bring in a longterm #1.
A "modern" goalkeeper should be the least of our concerns.
Vitek has potential for sure and I really like him. But imo he's still about 4 or 5 years of development away from being a genuine option at first team level.
It shouldn't really and must be factored into our thinking along with other areas of the pitch. And if there's a manager change, then i'm pretty sure coaches with a modern outlook to playing the game would want a keeper who they can rely on in possession..
If you take Henderson’s strengths and DeGea strengths you would have the perfect keeper. DeGea is looking good so far this season and CM plus other places should be looked at first
Yes and a keeper who is genuinely good at coming off the line and sweeping. I know people say Henderson is but while he might be better, I don't think he is good either.
The ironical point here is when De Gea arrived, being a Spanish goalkeeper (and somewhat being poor physically) everyone assumed passing would be his strength. And this point kept getting repeated for years until eventually people realised it to be not the case.
The ironical point here is when De Gea arrived, being a Spanish goalkeeper (and somewhat being poor physically) everyone assumed passing would be his strength. And this point kept getting repeated for years until eventually people realised it to be not the case.
Can I have a modern midfielder instead…?
FFS - the search for the cause of our cromulence does wander down some dead-end alleys doesn’t it?
FFS - the search for the cause of our cromulence does wander down some dead-end alleys doesn’t it?
Not really. We just need a keeper who can keep the ball out of the net. Sure, it would be nice if DDG was better with his feet (and he’s not nearly as terrible as people keep saying, look at the newcastle game for example), but as long as he keeps making the saves, the rest of it isn’t really as important as people think. I played RB all of high school and started in college as well, as long as the goalie wasn’t awful with his feet, thats all you really need. If we were a perfect team, then sure. But we aren’t.
A midfielder who can dictate the tempo and pass between the lines on the other hand…..
A midfielder who can dictate the tempo and pass between the lines on the other hand…..
It might be important for the manager/head coach of Man United. I'm glad to hear that it hasn't been important for you in high school/College playing at RB. But there's many coaches in the professional game who prefer to play with a keeper who is comfortable with the ball with their feet.
VdS is a ball playing modern GK. I don't think we really had issue with him. Old school GK mess up their normal no nonsense kicking too. So it really boils down to GK quality (concentration, mental strength) than just style.
Doesn't make sense to get this kind of keeper when AWB and Fred are starting players. If your attacks are being limited by your GK's lack of killer through balls, they're being far more limited by the right-back's average passing and poor crossing, and by the CM's inconsistent control and passing.
Things can change very quickly in football. We could go from AWB to Ethan Laird and from Fred to Hannibal Mejbri without looking externally. But it all comes down to what the approach is to playing the game. Modern coaches who play a expansive brand of football do prefer a keeper who is comfortable on the ball.
His distribution in his early seasons was fantastic , from memory. But this may have been to much lower expectations as you say, we didn't find many 'ball-playing keepers' back then.
I think you have wrong idea about modern GK.
Both Barthez and VdS fits into this category. Of course, you don't want the Barthez that spread nervousness even to capable ball playing outfield players. Someone like VdS has no issue with your limited ball playing outfield players.
The question is not whether we need someone like VdS or not, but whether we can recruit the right one.
What do you need the keeper to be good with his feet for? In a perfect scenario, you would need the keeper to do as little as possible. I wasn't very happy when De Gea was the best keeper in the world and was saving us every game. Why? Because obviously if the keeper is having to do much work, then the team is playing bad. What we need is a midfield and if there's something left - a good right-back. That's all. As long as Henderson and De Gea remain good goalies, it doesn't matter how good they can juggle with the ball because that should be the least of our concerns when it comes to goalkeepers. And thankfully when it comes to keeping the ball out of the net, which is the purpose of goalkeepers, we have two extremely good ones.
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Why do you need a keeper to be good with his feet? Because the coaches in the modern game at elite level prefer to build play from the back and the keeper being comfortable with his feet is important to them.
I would be happy with just the players being able to pass properly as on the weekend Harry and Varane were shocking and don't get me started on Fred!!
The passing range of our GKs is a long way back on the things we need to address at the moment and IMO top of the list is getting individuals to start putting in performances that match their salaries.
The passing range of our GKs is a long way back on the things we need to address at the moment and IMO top of the list is getting individuals to start putting in performances that match their salaries.
Maybe, but DDG’s distribution hasn’t always been as bad as it is these days. It steadily improved in his early years, and by the time of LvG it was actually pretty decent. Sacking Franz Hoek, replacing him with Dave’s Spanish mate, and appointing “hoof it up to the big man” Jose completely destroyed it though. Which is a shame. It’s probably too late to do anything about it now.
You build from the back by giving a simple pass to a CB and from there they go forward. It's not rocket science. Show me a single top team that utilizes a keeper as a passer. That would be very dangerous and stupid no matter how good he is. Recycling possession in your own half is a recipe for a disaster.
I'm not sure what you're failing to understand here. Keepers are utilised by modern coaches in the build up phase. Why do you think Guardiola got rid of Joe Hart quickly on his arrival at City?
Goalkeepers are not only used to help transition play but they're also used to initiate attacks depending on the phase of play. Keepers are also utilised as sweepers in a higher defensive line. Liverpool, City, Barcelona Bayern and Ajax all have keepers who are strong in that regard and it helps them in the build up phase aswell as act as sweepers in a high line.
Because he was an absolute shambles as a keeper? There was always a mistake in him waiting to happen. It just wasn't worth it for the occasional class game he would have.
I mean, I don't know what your point is. De Gea basically assisted one of the goals in the Newcastle game (i think). He can initiate attacks just fine. The teams you've listed all have strong midfields that dominate the game. How can De Gea or Henderson play the SK role with Fred in midfield? We don't control games at all to have a luxury of a high line goalkeeper, which is why the keeper problem is our last concern. In fact, it's no concern at all because both De Gea and Henderson can do a decent job at it if we could actually control the games and for that we need tactics and midfield. We don't have either.
You don't need to control a game for the goalkeeper to be comfortable on the ball.
And what do you mean how can De Gea or Henderson play the sweeper keeper role when Fred is in midfield? How does Fred who is a midfielder affect the keeper in a high line when he isn't even part of the last line of defense?
The keeper in such a scenario is helping the CBs defend the space in between and Fred isn't gonna affect the keeper conduct his sweeper duties.
I’m kind of surprised at this, have you not seen what Ederson and Allison have been doing at City and Liverpool? They’re approach to goalkeeping is at the other end of the scale from De Gea, who is very traditional in his strengths and weaknesses.
You really don’t. Henderson is even worse than De Gea with the ball, and not better on dealing with crosses. He is just ‘braver’ (whatever it means), but gets very often found in no men’s land, unlike De Gea who does not even brother coming from crosses. The end result is roughly the same.
I think the only thing he is a bit better is playing as a sweeper. While he is bad at it, he is better than De Gea by virtue of De Gea for most part not bothering.
Matej Kovar had an 89% passing accuracy against Bradford this week. I found that really high. He is great with his feet although his shot-stopping has been a little iffy lately but the potential is there.
I don’t understand this logic at all. It’s like saying there’s no point signing any creative players because our strikers are shit.
Cool. Good to hear.
Doesn't matter what goalkeeper we have if we got Donny or Fred in midfield. They'll give it away anyway.
The goalkeeper situation isn't a worry and taking de gea 's spot when he's in form will cost us points
The goalkeeper situation isn't a worry and taking de gea 's spot when he's in form will cost us points
The Keepersweeper, Cafs new rolemodel
You’re overcomplicating it, and mixing two things into one. Having a DDG be confident enough to play the sweeper keeper role would be awesome- but that generally would have nothing to do with our buildup play.
Being good with his feet and be able to pass/help initiate attacks is a different story, and one, like you assume, may be important to professional coaches but my assumption is for a team that barely has midfielders that can pass the ball forward, thats not a priority right now.
Also: DDG is not awful with the ball at his feet. Might not be the best, but certainly good enough if he can, this one might be surprising, keep the ball out of the net.
Prediction:
Henderson sold at the end of the season for £25 Mil.
De Gea undispited number one for the next 2-3 years
We sign Illan Meslier from Leeds to replace Dave (Has all the attributes as a sweeper keeper)
Henderson sold at the end of the season for £25 Mil.
De Gea undispited number one for the next 2-3 years
We sign Illan Meslier from Leeds to replace Dave (Has all the attributes as a sweeper keeper)
One bad pass and we get a novel about needing a new keeper. Gotta love the caf 
De Gea's distribution has improved massively this season, I always thought it was his biggest weakness and have probably posted about it before, but this season there has been a marked improvement and some excellent passes from him.
It's not really a concern until we resolve our midfield situation. If our keeper pings a ball into Fred in the midfield it's as likely to bounce back and set up a 1 on 1 for the oppositions attack. We don't have a team that can control and distribute the ball confidently from the middle of the pitch so expecting our goalkeeper to do so is a stretch.
I'd be much happier with Henderson hitting longer to medium passes to Bruno or Shaw when they show for it and not risk the ball coming straight back at us playing risky balls to deep laying midfielders.
That said I'd prefer de gea to come forward of his line much more when we're in possession of the ball as so often when teams counter there's half the pitch to aim their pass or run into as the gap between our centre backs and keeper is huge
I'd be much happier with Henderson hitting longer to medium passes to Bruno or Shaw when they show for it and not risk the ball coming straight back at us playing risky balls to deep laying midfielders.
That said I'd prefer de gea to come forward of his line much more when we're in possession of the ball as so often when teams counter there's half the pitch to aim their pass or run into as the gap between our centre backs and keeper is huge
I know exactly what moment you are talking about. I said this in the match day thread.
But as others have pointed out we need passing CMs before a passing GK. Sad but that's where we are.
Not a priority at all.
Full focus should be on 2 shiny new CMs and an RB and trimming the squad.
After that, other issues will likely emerge that will still be bigger priorities.
Full focus should be on 2 shiny new CMs and an RB and trimming the squad.
After that, other issues will likely emerge that will still be bigger priorities.