You're exactly where Chelsea were with Lampard a year ago. Both did well relative to expectations, took the team as far as they could, and both deserve plaudits for those achievements, but ultimately they are some ways off the top level.
We are an awfully coached team
- Thread starter bond19821982
- Start date
yes and these
And then these players go to their national teams and play a completely different game. We are not a well coached side. Our movements usually are terrible. It is normally played right across the pitch to AWB or Shaw and they try to cross it. You can see it coming in every match. Same pattern.
We have just signed one of the best centre backs in the world to partner a 80 million pound centre back but still cant keep a clean sheet and always look too open and we just splashed out 70-80 million on sancho and brought back a goal machine and yet we look uninspiring in attack, plus on top of that we can't control things in the middle of the park.
All of that screams woeful coaching of the team.
All of that screams woeful coaching of the team.
Right now the caf is basically 30,000 blind women and men trying to articulate the same elephant.
Unfortunately, that elephant in the room is you-know-who.
Unfortunately, that elephant in the room is you-know-who.
Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
What the hell are we doing there?
Yup, and it's a mighty big elephant with a goldfish for a memory because he doesn't seem to learn anything.
I would agree to the extent, that we looked better today than to what we have seen the other matches. I don't know, but there was something reminiscent of that last season... The moment when we have seen what good a striker with some workrate can bring to the team. Back then it was Cavani for Martial, this time it was Cavani for Ronaldo. For me it is obvious, we lack some energy up front, somebody to really move, to cause some trouble for the defenders, having Martial, Cavani and Greenwood in the team, I thought that be way too many strikers, too much conversion, to little creation, but we went fairly fine. Sure, it might have been connected to Everton not sitting back but having a go at us which resulted in a big of chaos which I think, suited us quite a bit. It all went away when Ronaldo entered the pitch and Everton dropped deep. The pogba sub ended all hopes in my eyes, from then on it was hoofball and the midfield was abandoned.
So all in all - I agree, we looked better than usual. But the points weren't lost because of one individual mistake in the 65th minute. That could have been rectified 2 or 3 times in the following 15 seconds. And which could have been rectified in the 25+ minutes later. Who are we to expect that one goal is enough to deserve a win against an in-form Everton team - that gained the exact same amount of points, the same amount of goals but conceded one or two more. They still had a better xPts before the game. Fred and individual mistakes are a problem. But so is the coaching, because at some point the manager can't hide.
Kudos to you Sir, it takes something to admit being wrong. The thread title suffers from its hyperbole name, but the criticism is quite sound I'd say.
So all in all, its again the same un-technical players who are at fault but not the manager? It is because of Fred, McTominay and AWB, that we cannot create something of note with talent like Bruno, Cavani, Martial and Greenwood on the pitch? Not creating anything of note when we should be bombarding the goal adding the talent of Ronaldo(!!!!), Sancho and Pogba to the mix?
I wonder how other teams are doing it with even lesser players on the pitch than we do... No. Just no. When Ole was credited for his subs which changed a few of the last games, I'd say his subs were at fault for this result today. No idea why he took off Cavani who linked the attack and made them move, absolutely no idea how somebody can put on Pogba for Fred but leave McTominay on the pitch. All this talent but we just surrender midfield and go for hoofball...
Our best to lose the game.Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
You are not reading the whole post at all mate.
They've been reading the cafe 
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...724542745&utm_medium=post&utm_source=facebook
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...724542745&utm_medium=post&utm_source=facebook
People genuinely defended that.
awful
very bad or unpleasant
hyperbole
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally
It's an unfortunately easy comparison to make given both only really got the job because of their prior association with the club as well.
There's no coaching that can deal with four individual mistakes in 30 seconds. What coaching would have stopped Evertons goal?
I'm not saying this to defend Ole but so far this season its been an incredible amount of individual errors.
There doesn't seem to be enough concentration,focus or something along those lines.
Looks like a school playground gameWas watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
Very true.
Fundamentally I just think it's a different remit to make a mediocre side competitive versus making a good side elite. As the level increases, fine margins become more and more vital - and just as Lampard was found wanting in terms of taking that next step forward, so too is Ole.
Again, I think both deserve credit for what they've achieved, but the stark reality is that neither is good enough to manage at the pinnacle of the sport - realistically this is where Chelsea and United are given the level of investment over the past few years.
Be careful with the words you use, anything that resembles P.E. will make some posters very angry.
Thanks for solidifying my argument.
If it wasn't meant sincerely: very bad or awful probably isn't the best word to describe a coaching, that got us quite a lot of wins in the last 2 years. A lot of goals and a few deep runs in tournament. Seriously don't make me take a stand for Ole now, I am not suited for it, but awful just a few levels OTT. I think, the common ground should be that the coaching is ok to alright but not close to the level of our competitors.
Varane is in there somewhere, wowWas watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
We conceded one goal, against an Everton side who had pretty much all their important players injured. We had enough time to score few more goals. The fact that we're clinging to a 1-0 and not even able to score more goals with such attacking roster we have, proves how shit our coaching is.
I mean coming into matches unprepared, being caught off guard on free kicks, and just making boneheaded decisions can be entirely on the coaches for not drilling it into the players. Obviously we could just have a group of rotten players that don't care but seems like it'd be easier (and better for the club) if it's just the coaches.
Didn't I?
It feels like you are trying to find an explanation for what happens on the pitch, am I right? If my summary wasn't right, maybe you can explain it in a different way?
The question is can Ole win you the league or UCL. Because of in terms of talent there isn't much difference in the levels between UTD & City, Pool and Chelsea.
From the present evidence, the answer is NO. If he can't then we are wasting time. Lets get a proven manager who has won.
Most of the players are in their prime, we need to be looking to win now.
From the present evidence, the answer is NO. If he can't then we are wasting time. Lets get a proven manager who has won.
Most of the players are in their prime, we need to be looking to win now.
The journos must be itching to ask further about what the actual vision is here for this team. The cliches are getting picked apart. What is the actual plan?
Yeah I agree with you, we should be scoring more with this amount of talent
but ultimately if four players don't cock up one defensive action we win. We don't win well but it's still 3 points.
In the Everton goal for example, what coaching could be done to stop it?
Remember these are all seasoned pros. Fred knows he has to stop Gray one way or another. Shaw knows he shouldn't over cover like that etc.
No idea. Was madness.Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
We're lucky he decided to square it.
There are many times in football where results are decided by moments of mistake or brilliance which is not associated to the coach. e.g Bruno penalty miss.However they still get the heat
as coaches are evaluated by results fortunatley or unfortunatley.Performance,tactic ,formation and lineups are secondary at times.
as coaches are evaluated by results fortunatley or unfortunatley.Performance,tactic ,formation and lineups are secondary at times.
Those individual errors cost us how many goals?
That’s a coaching issue.
We might have won today indeed, doubt we would have been feeling great or confident of us repeating such kind of wins over the course of the season with how terrible we have been offensively. We defeated WHU and Villareal with the same kind of performance and look where we're now. You can simply keep on playing like this and just be content because you're barely winning 1-0 or 2-1 and just hoping for it to continue.
If we're actually good enough and coached well in the attack to utilize these attacking players, we would have scored few more goals and won the game without worrying about a single individual mistake fecking us up completely.
Yeah maybe but its also the responsibility of top level, experienced pros right?
For the disallowed goal, should McKenna have to coach a player like Varane to not rush out and leave space and an unmarked player behind him like that?
But for the Everton goal, can you explain what coaching is lacking to stop it happening?
Yes, but a top player taking care of that himself, supported by good coaching, will always be better than a top player left alone with it.
That's why a top squad without a good manager can come close to winning something, but will lose against another well drilled top squad. That is the fine margin that prevents United from really challenging for titles.
Well for example City coach their players not only to be in the right positions and to take the right actions to nullify counter attacks but also to commit tactical fouls when necessary (as multiple managers have pointed out over the years). They're doing that as a team not on the players' own initiative but because it's part of how they've been drilled to handle defensive transitions.
When I see us conceding chance after chance from counter attacks and then this goal following our own corner and two tackle attempts by Fred that failed to stop the attack, I see why City are coached that way.
I'm trying to tell you what happens on the pitch and why it happens by making a point that there is pattern of play but Ole keeps selecting the wrong players to play in this pattern of play. For example, you don't play too many non-technical players on the pitch to play quick passing against the low block, thus, the pattern of play fails as those non-technical players keep missing their passes or being slow in their passing. While the technical players who can play in the pattern of play we are coaching and setting up against the low block are on the bench.
Poor attempt at Getting out to spring the offside trap. Believe AWB plays them onside.Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
We were fortunate that Davies passed. If he had shot he probably would have scored.
This is the end of the line.
Anyone who isn’t trolling and who is genuinely making an argument that our coaching is NOT completely substandard ………….
Is a simpleton
/thread
Anyone who isn’t trolling and who is genuinely making an argument that our coaching is NOT completely substandard ………….
Is a simpleton
/thread
This was exactly the two Owens were talking about before The Match. Both our FBs do not know how to play as FBs. Hargreaves said before the game that if he goes that much forward under SAF he would get a right rollicking from SAF. His prime job was to defend and not be a pseudo winger. They were discussing there previous games we played where we always get sucker punched by a counter attack.Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?
I didn't really had the feeling that Everton was actually a low block in the first half. Of course they didn't attack us gung-ho or went with an ultra high line but they were playing with an organized defense without being particularly deep. That changed in the second half when we brought on Ronaldo.
I thought, we did alright before that change, Cavani could have been been more clinical but overall it was one of the better attacking displays in a while. Especially AWB and Fred had a decent game. But this stopped once Cavani was gone and it came to a fullstop when Fred left the pitch for Pogba. I think, you theory with the non-technical players doesn't really cover all aspects of what we see. Also, if we have some technically limited players, why aren't we adjusting our plan so these weaknesses are mitigated a bit?
We don't have to debate that the players you named aren't on the same level technically as the others. But that still doesn't explain why we lost any sort of structure in the second half. We produced nothing and if it wouldn't have been for Davies stupidity, we could have lost the game. And it would have been deserved. Reducing the game to the one individual error of Fred covers only a fraction of the performance that led to todays result. The players are the most obvious ones to take the blame but at some point, the manager needs to find a way to stop these "individual errors", wouldn't you agree? His subs sealed the game today in my eyes, I know thats debatable and I am happy to do so but I am sure we would have scored eventually if we wouldn't have completely surrendered midfield.
Mata is on 160k/wk to do exactly what?
Heung-Min Son just renewed his contract for 140k/w.
"The usual"Was watching the highlights back and saw this for the disallowed goal.
What the hell are we doing there?