Has it become obvious now that we can’t challenge for the league?

Flexdegea said:

I agree it's far too early. We aren't playing well, some loose decisions and line ups too, and not many players in form but no other team is really looking elite at the moment to be honest. Still really early days. Some big matches coming up, momentum could swing, and we have started slow last 2 seasons.

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And we didn't challenge for the title in either of those seasons so I'm not quite sure why you put that there.

Chelsea last year could not compete for the league or the CL. Then lampard left..

In modern football, the next game changes everything.

Play well in the next game; progress. Play well in 2 consecutive games: title contenders.

Play badly in the next game: something is wrong with the squad/manager. Play badly in 2 consecutive games: squad is rubbish/sack the manager.

Especially at United post Fergie. It will never change. Never.

The midfield is such a shit excuse. Give defined roles to DvB, Bruno, Pogba, Matic and you’ll get a perfectly fine midfield out of it.
Let Bruno do what the feck he likes, allow the team to play playground “enjoy yourselves” football and play McTominay and Fred, and you’ll get exactly what you’re seeing.
Not a chance Klopp, Pep, Tuchel allow it, but we do, and yet somehow it’s used as an excuse why the management are putting on such a poor showing.

We all knew from the start that it would be our midfield who would let us down. Don't know why the coaches and hierarchy didn't see fit to strengthen this area. We simply MUST do it in January or we will be fighting for a top 4-6 place.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:

The midfield is such a shit excuse. Give defined roles to DvB, Bruno, Pogba, Matic and you’ll get a perfectly fine midfield out of it.
Let Bruno do what the feck he likes, allow the team to play playground “enjoy yourselves” football and play McTominay and Fred, and you’ll get exactly what you’re seeing.
Not a chance Klopp, Pep, Tuchel allow it, but we do, and yet somehow it’s used as an excuse why the management are putting on such a poor showing.

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So easy aye? Who needs a manager who has actually played the game and a team of coaches who analysed all our games. Just give it to you. Problem solved.

Not that I’m 100% happy with the squad though.

izak said:

That's not true, Managers Improve players by teaching them things but we've got a Cluless manager, and that's our biggest problem right now!!

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Players have limits.

Hammondo said:

Players have limits.

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Managers too.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:

The midfield is such a shit excuse. Give defined roles to DvB, Bruno, Pogba, Matic and you’ll get a perfectly fine midfield out of it.
Let Bruno do what the feck he likes, allow the team to play playground “enjoy yourselves” football and play McTominay and Fred, and you’ll get exactly what you’re seeing.
Not a chance Klopp, Pep, Tuchel allow it, but we do, and yet somehow it’s used as an excuse why the management are putting on such a poor showing.

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This is 100% true. It’s simply too much talent to equate to what we see and is a tactical decision to be route one and bypass McFred. It’s great for sitting in and countering but we’re trying to use it in possession against teams much weaker than us.

Galactic said:

So easy aye? Who needs a manager who has actually played the game and a team of coaches who analysed all our games. Just give it to you. Problem solved.

Not that I’m 100% happy with the squad though.

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Did I say it was easy? I just said three of the best coaches in the World would never in a million years be trying our “solution” for 2 years. They’d fine a much better solution with our current options.

How the feck you thought RAB from the caf was on the level of Pep, Klopp, Tuchel only you can answer.

Nikelesh Reddy said:

I”m not too sure about this.We tend to play much better against the top teams…I wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Liverpool…But then we”ll end up losing silly points against teams that we are expected to beat.That’s the problem…

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Isn't that like two seasons ago? Since Bruno came in we became much better at beating lower sides(as compared to when we we're a pure counter attacking team), but lost our big games mojo.

It’s to early to conclude = it’s not obvious.

Anyway.. I’m more sceptical now than I was a month ago. The main reason is that I’ve realised our central midfield quality and balance probably isn’t according to the standard required to win PL.

Central midfield is the heart of any team. United has neglected it to much. I’ve earlier said that If we don’t buy example Rice, it may cost us the PL title.

I think our current midfield would’ve been a nut to any manager; they would’ve struggled to find the balance. The difference is that example Klopp and Pep likely would’ve pinpointed and sorted the problem during 3y.

Maybe Ole overestimate the individual approach on behalf of the systemic approach. The Pogba situation has likely limited our system development or midfield development. The same can be said about the Bruno success.

Looking at city, liverpool, chelsea, bayern, psg, atletico madrid we are 1000 yrs far from them at 360°

Siorac said:

And we didn't challenge for the title in either of those seasons so I'm not quite sure why you put that there.

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We've actually had a better start this season which is my point, table standing reflects it. I'm not getting into the whole we haven't played anyone on paper yet, which isn't even true either. Means nothing to be honest at this stage of the season.

I also know we are capable of going on a run, and when we are firing, we are a match for any one, this is why their is no panic here.


Lot of what people are saying now, they were saying previous 2 seasons too at this stage, only last season we really where completely tanking In the league early on.

Game wise yeah I will give you that. But point wise? It's still 3 points mate. Maybe around December.

Deery said:

I too think we can still make a push, things haven’t even came together yet and as you say we aren’t playing well. I believe we can only improve.

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My thoughts exactly. I go back to previous 2 seasons, last year's start was shocking. Everything people where saying now, they were saying then only it was worse.

We are defo capable of massively improving. Blooding players in, and to be fair Ole constant rotation and playing Fred no matter what aint helping him on the getting stick front. But if we can hit form across the squad it will all pay off over the season. Very long season ahead

dove said:

Managers too.

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Exactly, so we don't have a good enough midfield.

Hammondo said:

Exactly, so we don't have a good enough midfield.

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He inherited Pogba who still after 3.5 years he hasn’t a clue what to do with him. It feels as though with this left wing experiment he’d actually like to play him as a 10, but then he spent 50m quid on Bruno so can’t.

The he went and spent another 50m on midfielder DvB but quickly decided he’s also only a number 10 and doesn’t trust him anywhere else.

So for his 100m outlay, instead of improving the midfield, he’s stacked the squad with 3 midfielders that he doesn’t trust to play midfield.

That’s what happens when you don’t have defined roles and a defined vision for your team.

But yeah, it’s not his fault at all.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:

He inherited Pogba who still after 3.5 years he hasn’t a clue what to do with him. It feels as though with this left wing experiment he’d actually like to play him as a 10, but then he spent 50m quid on Bruno so can’t.

The he went and spent another 50m on midfielder DvB but quickly decided he’s also only a number 10 and doesn’t trust him anywhere else.

So for his 100m outlay, instead of improving the midfield, he’s stacked the squad with 3 midfielders that he doesn’t trust to play midfield.

That’s what happens when you don’t have defined roles and a defined vision for your team.

But yeah, it’s not his fault at all.

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The next 2 months will tell us how much or if we have improved, and the big debate will really get rolling.

OT isn't a fortress anymore, clubs have been able to come and take points off us far too regularly for a long while now. That needed to change this season if we were to challenge, we can't solely rely on our away form again.

We're also conceding far too many sloppy goals for me to feel confident that this is going to be a successful season, which it should be with the squad we have.

FPL addict said:

Added to the fact that the first seven games were about the easiest run of games on paper of any of the other top 6 sides other than Everton ( if Everton could even be considered as such)
Man Utds fixtures for the next seven games are a hell of a lot tougher so even 2pts a game will be a very tough ask given how they are playing.

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Agreed. We will win games on paper we shouldn't, but as you say after 7 games it's not as rosy as it should be

Hammondo said:

Exactly, so we don't have a good enough midfield.

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Good enough for what? Every single team has strengths and weaknesses, no club has perfect squad. We have a good enough midfield to not get constantly outplayed by the likes of Wolves or Villareal. We never perform well in games and are always betting on opposition missing a few clear cut chances. It's simply not the way to win the league and that's why we will not.

I think we will challenge this year, because we're too good (on paper) not to. But we should be winning it. We've spent years getting to this point, and we're going to blow it. Pogba will leave, Ronaldo will get older and retire, Cavani will leave.. This is the season.

A stronger owner would have replaced Ole in the summer (although I'm not sure who with..).

reelworld said:

I thought we're not only look great for about 15-20 minutes in the first half, and after that, once Everton got a grip on what we're doing they were comfortable at containing our attack.
Martial goal only come because the guy who marked Bruno missed his interception badly.
It was clear to me that we're never gonna scored another goal again

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Heres the thing. Ole has set the standards so low that when we play not so shit, it looks like we played well.

reelworld said:

I thought we're not only look great for about 15-20 minutes in the first half, and after that, once Everton got a grip on what we're doing they were comfortable at containing our attack.
Martial goal only come because the guy who marked Bruno missed his interception badly.
It was clear to me that we're never gonna scored another goal again

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We also created 2 good chances between Ronaldo and Sancho the 2nd half, Sancho in particular should have scored. Don't get me wrong, I'd remove Ole tomorrow as I think he's gone as far as he can, but there was some improvement in our attacking play yesterday.

Either Ole gets in a new experienced coach with fresh idea (my absolute preference), or we change manager. Otherwise, the answer to OP is a resounding Yes for me.

dove said:

Good enough for what? Every single team has strengths and weaknesses, no club has perfect squad. We have a good enough midfield to not get constantly outplayed by the likes of Wolves or Villareal. We never perform well in games and are always betting on opposition missing a few clear cut chances. It's simply not the way to win the league and that's why we will not.

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Midfield is the most important area.

Regulus Arcturus Black said:

He inherited Pogba who still after 3.5 years he hasn’t a clue what to do with him. It feels as though with this left wing experiment he’d actually like to play him as a 10, but then he spent 50m quid on Bruno so can’t.

The he went and spent another 50m on midfielder DvB but quickly decided he’s also only a number 10 and doesn’t trust him anywhere else.

So for his 100m outlay, instead of improving the midfield, he’s stacked the squad with 3 midfielders that he doesn’t trust to play midfield.

That’s what happens when you don’t have defined roles and a defined vision for your team.

But yeah, it’s not his fault at all.

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I agree with most of what you said, but nothing said was to do with that. What we have now, in terms of players, isn't that good.

It's blatantly obvious yes. And the blame doesn't lie with one area. I'll stick with on field issues. We can lose a game just by having FRED in the team he is diabolically bad. I hate to say it but AWB doesn't look good enough to me any more I've tried to give him time but I just can't see it anymore. I want Pogba gone. Never wanted him back admittedly but if he was performing I'd accept it completely. We've tried him on the left to shoehorn him in - he's not a winger! And he's not good enough to play in the middle. After all this time here he's been unable to cement a place in that midfield. Unbelievable. But he is that bad he doesn't deserve a midfield place. Get rid and don't look back his presence here I think has been a massive part of our failings. And I really hate this next one but Bruno...he's obviously a great talent and we'd be a hell of a lot worse without him, but he's running around doing whatever he likes..so undisciplined and instruvctured, like an excited kid in a school team at times. And I hate stay that because he can be brilliant. So where does that fall? On Bruno or Ole? Is Ole not giving a defined role? Or can Bruno not follow instructions? I think possibly a bit of both so that leads to Ole. There is no structure or definable tactics on display. It's just pick 11 players and hope someone pulls something out the bag. Probably why Bruno does what he wants. So again, I hate it , but I have to eventually admit Ole is not good enough. Not on what we are seeing now. There's no identity to the team play. He has a squad he can't manage. If we had a better manager in place we could be much better. But also some of these players might be found out. And I'm looking at Bruno unfortunately. Maybe with proper structure and instructions we'd see it was ole all along, maybe he'd continue to go where he wants. How to address all this I don't know. Sorry to admit it starts with a new manager and coaching team. But that's such a massive overhaul and we are so invested in Ole now we're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I believe we are out of contention. To be in the race I think we had to be top by a few points right now
after our easy games to start the season. We will drop a lot of points in the next half a dozen games against big teams so needed that buffer. Add to that the poor football so far and the dysfunctional setup.

I was optimistic at the start of the season with the signings made but that has quickly gone.

Seven games in, two points off 1st, we obviously can't challenge?

Flexdegea said:

I agree it's far too early. We aren't playing well, some loose decisions and line ups too, and not many players in form but no other team is really looking elite at the moment to be honest. Still really early days. Some big matches coming up, momentum could swing, and we have started slow last 2 seasons.



Thank God the manager and the team don't share the same mentality of most of the fans in this thread. Bunch of wet wipes.

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True story

e.cantona said:

Seven games in, two points off 1st, we obviously can't challenge?

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We have played easy opposition.

Next 7 games

Leicester
Liverpool
Spurs
Man City
Watford
Chelsea
Arsenal

IrishRedDevil said:

We have played easy opposition.

Next 7 games

Leicester
Liverpool
Spurs
Man City
Watford
Chelsea
Arsenal

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Sure. But it's not obvious we will lose any of those games

BTW, you took until October 2 and so many games into the season to create a thread regarding something that was "so obvious" even before (or immediately after) the season started.

Strange

The tough schedule coming up cuts both ways. Yes, we should have done better against the easier fixtures so far, but if we pick it up and win the next batch of games including Leicester, Liverpool, City, Arsenal etc we will start looking like champions elect. I don't think it's likely, but I still hold out some hope.

Our performances have mostly been poor but there are positive signs, so I'm ready to see what happens. If it goes badly between now and December then I hope the board moves and appoints someone else.

We are not finishing ahead of Chelsea or City, not a hope in hell.

Liverpool have a better starting 11, but we have a better squad but still think Liverpool will finish above us.

We'll end up battling the likes of Leicester, West ham for fourth with Ole in charge.

United always finish the season strongly and with such a rich squad, anything can happen.

Siezard said:

United always finish the season strongly and with such a rich squad, anything can happen.

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Exactly!

Siezard said:

United always finish the season strongly and with such a rich squad, anything can happen.

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We generally finish the season badly. It’s the middle and towards the end we do well.

We need to start and finish well to beat Pep, Klopp AND Tuchel.