Why so many knee-jerk reactions and negativity 7 games in?

Siorac

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To show things aren't going well? Out of all cups, top 4 out of grasp and a toxic environment. All of which I cannot see happening.
Those are incredibly low standards for one of the biggest clubs in the world. You're basically saying that as long as we are within touching distance of top 4 or still alive in any of the cups, it's all fine.

By those standards, we should have kept Van Gaal. The environment wasn't toxic, he won the FA Cup, and top 4 was well within grasp, we only missed out on goal difference.
 

slyadams

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To show things aren't going well? Out of all cups, top 4 out of grasp and a toxic environment. All of which I cannot see happening.
So when we're out of all cups and can't make CL AND a toxic environment? So it sounds like you want huge failure and decay to occur before trying to course correct? This also means a 4th place finish, no cups, no CL progress would be a good season for you?
 

RkkMan

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Our online fanbase are pretty clueless. They all want Ole out now but forget just how bad it got under Jose. Moyes, LVG, Jose, Giggs (for a few games) and now Ole.

Maybe...just maybe there are bigger issues than the manager. Nothing seems to be improving so the caf's answer.....keep sacking managers and starting again. Nothing is changing even if we do. How long do you think it will take before say Conte has a meltdown etc? Won't be long.

We need to get the Glazers out and have a total refresh. Changing the manager at this point is just a sticking plaster. Optimism comes back for a brief spell before reality kicks in. And repeat.
The Glazers are a problem but you're intentionally deflecting a genuine possibility that Ole legitimately needs to be questioned.
Look at the manner in which he's been backed.
£80m on Maguire most expensive CB ITW
£41m on Varane a serial winner in his prime from Real Madrid
£50m on AWB
£55m on Bruno
£73m on Sancho who's recognized as one of the best youngsters ITW just below Haaland and Mbappe and mind you Sancho was his top target from when he was INTERIM manager
£15m on the greatest footballer in history
Then there's others like Cavani, Telles, Dean Henderson back from loan after a top season with Sheffield and recently Lingard back from loan after a top spell with West Ham. That's before you factor in he has players like De Gea, Shaw, Pogba, Greenwood and Rashford at his disposal.
There's only a handful of managers in world football that have gotten such a significant level of backing financially and in terms player quality. As bad as The Glazers are in terms of money they've taken out of the club and mismanagement you can't blame them for failing to give backing and TIME to Solskjaer who's been here longer than his predecessors despite some questionable performances like the EL final or CL campaign last season that would have had him sacked elsewhere. He's been handed the tools and he will only have himself and only himself to blame if he doesn't get a tune out of his team and gets sacked as a result of it
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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So when we're out of all cups and can't make CL AND a toxic environment? So it sounds like you want huge failure and decay to occur before trying to course correct? This also means a 4th place finish, no cups, no CL progress would be a good season for you?
Because supporting Ole Gunnar Solskjær’s managerial career & their blind faith being proven right is more important to some fans than the club itself.

By his standards so long as the squad are happy they can miss out on Top 4 & get knocked out of every cup. Toxic environment? Another intangible thing that you can’t actually judge OgS on but can say he’s good at.

The standards aren’t even on the floor they’re in the basement.
 

Ixion

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
City have played Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool and PSG in their opening 10 games to be fair.

We've played Young Boys, Newcastle, Villa, Leeds, Everton..
 

BlueHaze

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@UnitedSofa It most likely comes down to the way we've played for majority of the games. It's been some real dire football to say the least. This is imo where the majority of the negativity stems from.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Our online fanbase are pretty clueless. They all want Ole out now but forget just how bad it got under Jose. Moyes, LVG, Jose, Giggs (for a few games) and now Ole.

Maybe...just maybe there are bigger issues than the manager. Nothing seems to be improving so the caf's answer.....keep sacking managers and starting again. Nothing is changing even if we do. How long do you think it will take before say Conte has a meltdown etc? Won't be long.

We need to get the Glazers out and have a total refresh. Changing the manager at this point is just a sticking plaster. Optimism comes back for a brief spell before reality kicks in. And repeat.
Says a man with 6000+ posts on a Manchester United fan forum since joining in 2013. . .
 

UnitedWA

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
Don't be ridiculous, they already played vs Arsenal, Tottenham, Leicester, Chelsea and Liverpool ("honorable" mention PSG in CL). And we mainly played vs crap teams.
 

shabz

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Watching other teams around us get it right is probably the main reason for the negativity.

Guardiola inherited a great squad and has spent enormously to build on that has won the league 3 times in 5 years, Klopp has won the CL and PL and overhauled and massively improved the squad in around the smae amount of time Ole has been here, Tuchel has transformed Chelsea tactically, and won the CL in his first 6 months at the club and has looked pretty good so far in the league with the only blips coming against City and Liverpool.

So when people say the manager needs more time, it's probably an overstatement as our three main rivals have had massive success since he's been in charge. He's got the squad to compete now but there's no consistency in our play, and there's no football philosophy/style of play that you can pinpoint and say 'I see what the manager is trying to do here'.
 

mav_9me

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
Are you bring intentionally obtuse? Even though you know the tougher fixtures they have had?

Such bad faith arguments man.
 

bosnian_red

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
Points aren't everything. We judge our opinions on how the team performs. Nobody should be blinded by getting 3 points away at Wolves when the performance was absolutely terrible - and a performance level that carried forward in the next games and inevitably the results were shit too.
 

sullydnl

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
No, we haven't.

They have 14 points having had approx. the fifth hardest set of opening fixtures. We have 14 points having had approx. the fourth easiest set of opening fixtures. They've done that while putting in better performances, scoring the same amount of goals (despite clearly needing a striker), creating better chances and keeping five clean sheets in seven.

That means they've done better, even without looking beyond the PL.
 
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Are you bring intentionally obtuse? Even though you know the tougher fixtures they have had?

Such bad faith arguments man.
Bad faith arguements?

I'm not going to take that from people that have written us off after 7 league games. Lets have a look at the table in January and revist this then
 

Smores

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Surely this is a troll thread? No one is that deluded.
 

dove

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Depended on the match. Half the time the footy was so mind numbingly dull I ended up drinking on the concourse instead.
Well, now games are usually not that dull because we tend to get battered quite often. Doesn't mean it's better :)
 

Relfy

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It's almost as if we're going through a patch of average form, with new players being integrated to the squad, on the back of a summer with a major international tournament. Though of course we should know by now that if we dare drop a single point, or not play a certain player someone online likes then the manager should just be sacked there and then. Also, we're an entire two points off the top of the table, which is unforgivable. #OleOut
 

romufc

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I'm optimistic for the future because we have a team that we all know can play well, we all know this. Look at the Newcastle and Leeds result for one. We are in a rough patch at the moment and losing Maguire doesn't help. We have several new players looking to bed into the team, all of whom have gone straight into the first team at once. We have also each year progressed and improved on our league position. I still have the belief that we will come good.

Are we playing well at the moment? Absolutely not. Can I see why people may be upset? Yes I can. However, do I think it warrants the absolute doom and gloom, world is ending reaction. Absolutely not.
2/9 does not fill me with confidence. You can talk about bedding players in and what not, the team that started against Everton only had Varane as the starter in terms of new signings. What you cannot ignore is the same mistakes over and over again.

Last season, away to the Turkish team we conceded a silly goal from our own corner, fast forward a year and we are doing the same thing, how can you tell me we have improved when we are making the same mistakes?

Going forward, are we much better? we barely create any clear cut chances and we are way too open.

We might have improved on our league position but, I can guarantee you we will finish 20 + points behind the winner of the league and to me, that is not improvement.
 

Nou_Camp99

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The Glazers are a problem but you're intentionally deflecting a genuine possibility that Ole legitimately needs to be questioned.
Look at the manner in which he's been backed.
£80m on Maguire most expensive CB ITW
£41m on Varane a serial winner in his prime from Real Madrid
£50m on AWB
£55m on Bruno
£73m on Sancho who's recognized as one of the best youngsters ITW just below Haaland and Mbappe and mind you Sancho was his top target from when he was INTERIM manager
£15m on the greatest footballer in history
Then there's others like Cavani, Telles, Dean Henderson back from loan after a top season with Sheffield and recently Lingard back from loan after a top spell with West Ham. That's before you factor in he has players like De Gea, Shaw, Pogba, Greenwood and Rashford at his disposal.
There's only a handful of managers in world football that have gotten such a significant level of backing financially and in terms player quality. As bad as The Glazers are in terms of money they've taken out of the club and mismanagement you can't blame them for failing to give backing and TIME to Solskjaer who's been here longer than his predecessors despite some questionable performances like the EL final or CL campaign last season that would have had him sacked elsewhere. He's been handed the tools and he will only have himself and only himself to blame if he doesn't get a tune out of his team and gets sacked as a result of it
Failure isn't 2nd and 3rd place. If thats what you deem as failure then every manager who doesn't come 1st is a failure surely? Sack everyone who doesn't come 1st? Is that now the message?

And don't hide behind the better football excuse. If we play better football under the next guy but still finish no higher than 2nd you will all want him out too.
 

shaky

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But City had Pep and Liverpool had Klopp, that’s a huge reason why they ended up winning those trophies. We have Ole, the gulf between him and those two is a factor a lot of fans seem unaware of or unable to to admit.
How did they get themselves in such awful positions with such fantastic managers? It's almost like even the best can have runs of poor results at any time.
 

Bobcat

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I am not feeling as negative as the majority it seems, however I would add that it's not just 7 games. I think it's the context of those games in terms of who we played and the performance levels. That creates a definite sense of dread ahead of a highly demanding set of fixtures. If we don't improve substantially over the coming weeks we could be out of the game and that is a hugely disappointing prospect.
My thoughts exactly.

I've been in Oles corner the whole time, but the way we've started this season have been incredibly underwhelming, especially considering the great summer window we had which was topped off with bringing back the biggest club legend in modern times

I have no doubt we will improve from our current state, but if considering the quality of our rival teams we simply cant afford to have these poor spells.

Imo, Ole has done admirably with the whole "rebuild" buisness after the hot mess we were after Jose, but now that rebuild is done and its time to deliver
 

UnitedSofa

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So when we're out of all cups and can't make CL AND a toxic environment? So it sounds like you want huge failure and decay to occur before trying to course correct? This also means a 4th place finish, no cups, no CL progress would be a good season for you?
No that wouldn't be a good season, but it also wouldn't be a reason to get rid of Ole either.

Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
Of course there is and not a lot of posters seem to see the bigger picture here.

People may compare our start to City's but to win the league you got to get more points than everyone else, so that argument really is null and void. Everyone will play everyone else eventually and it will even out.

@UnitedSofa It most likely comes down to the way we've played for majority of the games. It's been some real dire football to say the least. This is imo where the majority of the negativity stems from.
I can agree with that and have said that plenty of times over the last couple days or so, I just can't see it as being a reason as to why we should just rip it all up and start again.

Surely this is a troll thread? No one is that deluded.
Of course not, why would it be?

2/9 does not fill me with confidence. You can talk about bedding players in and what not, the team that started against Everton only had Varane as the starter in terms of new signings. What you cannot ignore is the same mistakes over and over again.

Last season, away to the Turkish team we conceded a silly goal from our own corner, fast forward a year and we are doing the same thing, how can you tell me we have improved when we are making the same mistakes?

Going forward, are we much better? we barely create any clear cut chances and we are way too open.

We might have improved on our league position but, I can guarantee you we will finish 20 + points behind the winner of the league and to me, that is not improvement.
The team that started against Everton was disjointed to say the least and no where near the first eleven. Most of those players wouldn't have played with one another for weeks. Can't just stick a team together and expect them to play well.
 

ivaldo

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Isn't there a 'last 20 games' thread?

Hell, we could discuss the past few years.
We finished second last season when the majority of people didn't think we could make top 3, some even suggesting we wouldn't make top 4. If we're being completely honest we didn't have a squad capable of competing last season, so if anything, Ole actually overachieved.
 

Redlyn

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
Said seriously with a straight face.

When/if we recover in performances the positive threads will follow. For now it is what it is and its only normal. It actually shows our expectations are still high. If we become satisfied with this level of performances given the opposition we have faced then we will realise how low the standards have dropped.
 
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FatTails

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What we have to remember is that there are a few players in the squad who need to either learn the league or learn one another. Sancho is going to be a slow burner as is Varane. Give it time, which unfortunately not many people want to give Ole/Squad.

United tend to do better against the better teams as they are more open at the back and United can hit them on the break. What United need to and which has always been a problem is to win the low block matches, those are the matches which wins you games. I wasn't happy with a draw at the weekend by any means, but I'm not going to write the season off because of it. Game 17 and I may start getting worried if the next set of games were to take us into the latter stages of the season. Game 7, not so much.



Exactly, it seems as though we want both an instant success and a long term fix, which is impossible.





3 Years and he should have won something, I agree there, but numerous semi finals and a final, isn't something to be scoffed at. That being said even if we won the EL, I still can see the same threads popping up wanting Ole to leave the club. That being said, this is the first season where 95% of the squad is "his squad" and not remnants of other managers. Barring a DM and to a degree a striker (not so much we have Cavani/Ronaldo) this is Ole's squad. So now he needs to perform and now he needs to get the players playing the way he wants. Which will take time to bed into the new set of players. Give the players time to adjust to one another and I'm certain he'll come good.




7 Games isn't that many games and arguably Liverpool should have won the league last year, given the free fall that they had, would not be surprised if that was us, again there'd be calls for Ole's job. But whataboutisms didn't solve anything.




I saw somewhere that Ronaldo was past it and was the reason for our shite play lately. You can't win them all.





I'm optimistic for the future because we have a team that we all know can play well, we all know this. Look at the Newcastle and Leeds result for one. We are in a rough patch at the moment and losing Maguire doesn't help. We have several new players looking to bed into the team, all of whom have gone straight into the first team at once. We have also each year progressed and improved on our league position. I still have the belief that we will come good.

Are we playing well at the moment? Absolutely not. Can I see why people may be upset? Yes I can. However, do I think it warrants the absolute doom and gloom, world is ending reaction. Absolutely not.




100% Agree. I try and stay out the match day threads because of this. Lingard's winner against West Ham proved just as much. Plenty of posters bemoaning him coming on. Then he goes and scores the winner. He's been one of our best players this season and because he's Lingard, people don't want to know.



Not at all, if this were game 17 going into game 29 (our next 12 games) and the fixtures looked like they do now and we are continuing to play like this, then yes I can see the reasoning why we may be in trouble and people being upset. But there's still 31 games to go. That is a LONG time. Heck Arsenal could still win the league mathematically so it's not like a bad situation at all.





To show things aren't going well? Out of all cups, top 4 out of grasp and a toxic environment. All of which I cannot see happening.



I don't understand that sort of criticism. We cry out for depth and then when we rotate we complain that our best players aren't playing. But Ole overplays them and they get injured and he gets slated for injuring the players.



Well let's all hope so come the end of the season!



I'm sure we all want to be at the top, including Ole/Players.

Of course the target is a title challenge this season and signing world class players like Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho puts huge pressure on them, but it will take a bit of time for the system to work with those players, they won't just slot in and play amazingly well instantly, they need time to get things moving so to speak.



While I agree things haven't been too impressive and he'll need to win something this season, it is rather annoying when the club is written off at the start of the season. People seem to forget that seasons are long. We'll see how things go this season and how many people Ole/United prove wrong. After all that's what we all want is for the club to win things.
You’ve quoted me, but didn’t reply to anything I said. You’re saying it’s kneejerk, yet our record since Ole took over is worse than Mourinho’s record over his time here (Mourinho’s meltdown included).

I’ll repeat because you seem to selectively read. Over the 161 games under Ole, and compared to the 144 under Mourinho, we have a lower win rate, a lower points per match, and a lower goal difference per game. We constantly freeze on any big occasion (finals and semifinals) and lose to teams whose quality is nowhere near ours (or their wage bills). This is after spending more on recruitment than 99% of clubs out there.

At what point is it ok to start having some expectations? How much worse should Ole’s record be than Mourinho before we are allowed to ask some questions?
 

el3mel

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I swear you have posted this kind of threads ton of times. You hate the forum so much but you still log in continuously which I found hilarious.
 

slyadams

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No that wouldn't be a good season, but it also wouldn't be a reason to get rid of Ole either.
OK, agree to disagree. I've seen enough already, but in fairness I never wanted him in the first place so he had to win me over first, which he never did. For you I assume you wanted him so the opposite is true where your mind needs to be changed in the other direction.
 

slyadams

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The Glazers are a problem but you're intentionally deflecting a genuine possibility that Ole legitimately needs to be questioned.
Look at the manner in which he's been backed.
£80m on Maguire most expensive CB ITW
£41m on Varane a serial winner in his prime from Real Madrid
£50m on AWB
£55m on Bruno
£73m on Sancho who's recognized as one of the best youngsters ITW just below Haaland and Mbappe and mind you Sancho was his top target from when he was INTERIM manager
£15m on the greatest footballer in history
Then there's others like Cavani, Telles, Dean Henderson back from loan after a top season with Sheffield and recently Lingard back from loan after a top spell with West Ham. That's before you factor in he has players like De Gea, Shaw, Pogba, Greenwood and Rashford at his disposal.
There's only a handful of managers in world football that have gotten such a significant level of backing financially and in terms player quality. As bad as The Glazers are in terms of money they've taken out of the club and mismanagement you can't blame them for failing to give backing and TIME to Solskjaer who's been here longer than his predecessors despite some questionable performances like the EL final or CL campaign last season that would have had him sacked elsewhere. He's been handed the tools and he will only have himself and only himself to blame if he doesn't get a tune out of his team and gets sacked as a result of it
Good post. For me the breaking point was Young Boys. To completely capitulate against such an opponent because you go down to 10 men was appalling. Can you imagine Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Bayern, PSG etc. doing that? We have a hugely superior squad, we should have been fine down to 10 men, but we barely had a kick. That was all about the the system, the mentality instilled and the coaching.
 

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Maybe it's time RedCafe split into two separate sites - a holier than thou TopRedCafe and an instant gratification PlasticCafe. And we could maybe find room for a third I-Like-It-When-We-Win-But-Its-Not-All-Rosey-Cafe.
 

stevoc

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I don't understand that sort of criticism. We cry out for depth and then when we rotate we complain that our best players aren't playing. But Ole overplays them and they get injured and he gets slated for injuring the players.
Sarcasm mate, sarcasm.
 

Bobcat

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I’m Ole and his staff in but they need to improve our work rate and intensity massively.

I’m 100% taking our players out of my FPL team until we wake up and start winning the individual battles on the pitch. Otherwise we are going to keep getting cut through and picked off by average and poor teams who press us and counter. our own forwards walk around and waste chances while our midfielders and defenders get battered. It’s not nearly cohesive enough
This is something i have noticed as well and it has annoyed me to no end. Villa and Everton did not give us so much trouble because they were better than us, they gave us trouble because everyone put in a shift and got stuck in there. Meanwhile we strolled around and looked so fecking pedestrian both on and off the ball
 

Robbie Boy

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Nah, not feeling overly positive to be honest. I came into this season absolutely buzzing and brimming with optimism. But the performances have been a huge cause for concern. Furthermore, looking at his tenure holistically, I think he's an ok job, but nothing like what some on here seem to believe. He certainly deserves credit for some of his work, but he's never had me fully convinced.

In saying that, I'll keep the faith for now. By the end of November, we should have a much clearer picture of where we're at. Even if I lose faith, I've made peace with the fact that he's here until the end of the season, at the very least. The best case scenario is for him to get it right, to avoid more upheaval. But I'm fairly pessimistic that's going to happen. This place is hilarious at the moment though, the 'ins' and 'outs' are cracking up :lol:
 

Sandikan

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Because nothing is decided in October. There's every chance we can have a great season.

Is Pep shit, are city is crisis? Because we've had the exact same start as they have.
Do you really believe this?

Do you not place any context on fixtures? They've played Liverpool and Chelsea away, the hardest team we've played is West Ham away.
We lost to Young Boys, they lost to PSG.

If we're dropping so many points against mid tableoutfits, it's a leap of faith to suggest we'll do better in the tough games.

It's that simple really.

It's not just results, it's the totally disjointed play. We've done well to scrape a couple of last min wins too.
 

Lewnited

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Lately without even 10 games played yet (In the PL), there is so much negativity and pessimism on the forum?

Like it's almost as if you'd think we're in a relegation battle, even after finishing 2nd last year, and yes I've heard all the excuses as to why we finished 2nd and why it was nothing to do with Ole or the players and in fact more to do with the teams around us. I mean we deserve some credit can't make up excuses for every single positive thing that United do. Anyway, there seems to be a lot of talk and dislike towards the manager. Now more than ever it seems as I'm perplexed as to why? Why now of all times, why right this moment?

We're not in free fall by any means and yet the feeling around the fans on here anyway is that we're in some sort of disaster mode. Even news that Phelan, Carrick, McKenna are getting new contracts somehow comes back to Ole and fake, patronising praise for the club.

The season has just begun and I'll say it again, people are getting really upset to the point where from the outside looking in, looking at people's reactions to news, it seems as though we're flirting with the bottom 3.

It's the international break too, which doesn't help things either.
Kneejerk? Are there not legitimate performance based concerns with this team that have been voiced at numerous points throughout the last few years? Have those concerns not been reinforced with the performances that you've seen over the past 10 games?

If you don't see it that way that's fine... clearly what you're seeing on the pitch is in line with your expectations based on our current squad, I'd personally disagree but that's neither here nor there.

2 points off the top? Absolutely. However we're also 4 points away from 11th, having not yet played any of last seasons top 7. This, while being able to count on one finger the amount of good 90 minute performances we've had this season. I don't think the wheels are falling off of course, but i do think that this is a worrisome moment.