Not keeping a clean sheet in 9 straight games at home is make believe land? It’s a horrible record if our aspirations are to challenge for the title.
Why so many knee-jerk reactions and negativity 7 games in?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Ole is a nice bloke, and has been a good servant of United, but is he really the equal of Klopp, Guardiola, or Tuchel? Fans complain because they know that United does not exist to be an 'also ran' club. It is not enough just to compete, we need to WIN things. And brutal truth is that Ole does not have the presence, authority, or tactical nous to make that vital difference. It is blatantly obvious that Liverpool, City, and Chelsea are operating at a different level to us, mostly due to consistency and better coaching. But three years into the job Solskjaer still cannot achieve or maintain that vital consistency that translates into actually winning things. We are seeing the limits of Ole's ability as a coach, but how long before the board decides fourth is no longer good enough.
I care a lot less about the 1 goal per game than I do that we stopped scoring 3 per game.
Bruno has been shit lately.
Thats also another way of looking at it, albeit 5 points and not the 7 you state,
however you cannot say we are on route to a certain amount of points as we can equally pick up better results in the games against teams like Leeds at Elland Road, Crystal palace where we drew etc etc.
Also by your metric Man City are in line for 76 points!
And a Chelsea team who currently only sit two points ahead at this embryonic stage would win the league with 86 points, ten points ahead.
I'd love to know the odds on that happening, as that would be an extremely effective way of predicting the league after 7 games! (basically multiply by 5.43 after 7 games!)
He's been given 3 years and still has the same issues.
He’s been given £400m. Im sure thats more than any other manager post SAF.
If someone whos still struggling to name his best 11, struggling against teams who play with 11 behind the ball (low block), struggling to pick players as he doesnt know where they fit, id suggest that person isnt very good at his job especially if he keeps making those same mistakes.
Anytime we play a team with a low block you can put your money on it being a draw or loss for us, and this is the main issue. He cant beat a defensive line. We dont play through the lines we play around them, like hes scared to let the players attempt a through ball. Other managers swat these teams away like flies, ours struggles.
We play well only against the teams that come to attack as they leave open spaces for us to exploit.
Did you see him laughing and smiling when we were struggling against Everton? Had that been one of the players most on here would be calling for him to benched or sold, with Ole its fine because he’s Ole.
Sancho played out of position, Donny not given a proper run to see if hes as good as he was at Ajax, dropping key players before an International break (happened last year when Leicester put us out the cup) playing 2 defensive minded midfielders against the dross of the league.
Ole wouldnt get a job as a manager for ANY other PL team, yet the biggest club puts its faith in someone as limited as him. Jesus wept.
Any way im out. Not going to waste any more energy in any posts about him from now on, no point it wont make any difference.
Nor did we finish second based on the first few weeks of the season which were dire. After the Arsenal game on November 1st which we lost 1-0 we then went on a run that took us second, and top at one point. That run was 31 games if you discount Wolves away where everyone was rested.
In 31 games we scored 62 goals of which Bruno scored 8 and assisted 9 (non penalty) so when I read his post properly and in light of the facts, we scored and won the majority of games without Bruno being the player responsible. His form from January to the season end was masked largely by penalty goals. He scored 4 and assisted 3 but it was his performances more than his stats that were poor. So as I said….that didn’t actually happen.
Scoring 3 goals a game isn’t sustainable over the course of the season. More clean sheets likely means we win more games 1 nil, the foundation of a title winning squad and something Sir Alex knew as well.
For me, and this is just my personal view, all that I wanted from Solskjaer was for him to sort out the problems of a disjointed and inadequate squad left behind by Jose, LvG and Moyes.
In other words, years of mismanagement and piss poor decision making needed to be fixed. That wasn't going to happen overnight.
Solskjaer set about that task immediately, getting rid of Fellaini, Darmian, etc etc...
All well and good, the first team squad now (on paper) is a million miles from what we had 3 years ago, and I think the vast majority of Reds would be more than happy with what the manager now has at his disposal.
The problem is, we don't play good football. Full stop.
With 3 years at the helm, and this squad of players, we really should be a terrific team, but we are not. We are no where near it.
We are poor to watch, and we see the same failings week after week.
Solskjaer isn't filling me with confidence that he knows how to take us to the next level, and that's where my pessimism comes in.
We (supporters) know that we have a gaping hole in central MF, no natural ball winner in there, yet Solskjaer has failed to address that situation, apparently content to go into a new season with Matic, Mata, & McFred, believing that these players are as good as anything else in the PL.
So the big questions are, has Solskjaer taken us as far as he can?
Would Klopp or Pep or similar, be getting much better from this squad of players?
My answer is yes to both of those questions. I think its time for Solskjaer to go.
I agree with that, but I'm willing to be patient for a little longer and back a manager that has achieved most of his reasonable objectives up to this point in time. Ole's objectives IMO as of today are simple -
(1) get us out of this CL group - absolutely essential and no excuses. Even if he is badly let down by the players I don't see how he survives this.
(2) keep us in touch of first position in the league by Christmas. So far that is happening, regardless of fixtures to date.
(3) find the right balance in this team by Christmas. If 1 & 2 are in place and 3 is achieved then I think we could have a strong season
I don't believe that any of the above is unreasonable, or beyond this management team. If it proves to be so then I'll be ready for a change. However, what I won't do in that situation is throw hissy fits or generally tear apart these guys that, unlike Jose, clearly want what is best for our club. Ole should be able to leave the club with his head held high and his legacy intact.
Title: "Why so many knee-jerk reactions and negativity 7 games in?"
Result: 9 pages in 23 hours
Result: 9 pages in 23 hours
We have no divine right to be a "terrific team" or to win every game and every trophy. After SAF the club went into a steep decline; Van Gaal addressed some of the damage caused by the disastrous spell under Moyes but could only take us so far and never really looked like he was the man to succeed SAF. Mourinho started well and added some top names but as he always does imploded within 3 seasons leaving us in almost as big a mess as Moyes did. Ole began not only by getting rid of the dead wood by letting the players he wanted know he was for them and that he believed in them and they responded. New players arrived and things improved significantly but there is still work to be done and Im sure Ole knows it. Many of us waited for 26 years before SAF took us to the pinnacle of English football again winning the Prem in its inaugural season and from that moment there was no stopping us. Can Ole do the same and restore us to the top again? I dont know, but Im prepared to give him the time to try. Im sure that if he thinks its not going to happen he will resign and then we start all over again, but lets wait and see.
Ferguson was more of a proven manager than Ole before he joined Man UTd. Simple eye test shows that Ole doesn't have it. Players play as if they have 1 kg weight attached to their balls. No knee jerk reaction at all. Things are looking bad. Since Leeds game we did not have a grasp on a single game! Terrible stuff out there.
That's far more reasonable than the OP who, at one point, defined 'things not going well' as being out of all cups and top 4 being out of grasp as well.
It's definitely comforting that at least Ole hasn't started intentionally sabotaging the team (and I can't see him doing that in the future either). If we're within touching distance of first at Christmas, that means we'll have done well over the upcoming horror run of fixtures and that would be encouraging.
Come on old chap, I see you conveniently left out the most decorated Jose Mourinho whom has won 3xPL, 2xCL to name but a few...proven winner etc, and he managed us already... So what's your point? We've already been down that road before.
What has that got to do with what was being discussed?
Such a reductive argument.
So from now on United can only go for unproven managers because Jose was a miss?
I never even remotely suggested any "divine right" so I have no idea where you've plucked that from.
I'm simply stating the glaringly obvious that all can see.
We are too often a piss poor side to watch, we have a huge deficiency in MF which has not been addressed, and we should (with these players) by now, look a much better proposition than we currently do.
Personally, I don't know how this could be disputed...
Oh just a miss, how do you know that the next "proven" manager will not feck the club up again requiring yet another rebuild... at this rate we'll be doing rebuilds forever mate. United is not a club that can flip managers every season like Chelsea, it upsets the club culture.
Because we've been playing shite football for years and are showing no signs of progress despite assembling one of the best teams in Europe.
We are actually playing worse in fact. We used to be hard to score against, now teams are creating chances at will. And over this whole time, we've relied on individual brilliance. And the fact, the more of those individuals you possess, the more you're going to win, instead of actual good coaching, which we see very little sign of. Meanwhile. our rivals have the most detailed coaches of any generation. So we're only drifting further backward. And individual brilliance can't save us. Especially when those individuals leave when they realize they're coached by the Emperor's new clothes.
We are actually playing worse in fact. We used to be hard to score against, now teams are creating chances at will. And over this whole time, we've relied on individual brilliance. And the fact, the more of those individuals you possess, the more you're going to win, instead of actual good coaching, which we see very little sign of. Meanwhile. our rivals have the most detailed coaches of any generation. So we're only drifting further backward. And individual brilliance can't save us. Especially when those individuals leave when they realize they're coached by the Emperor's new clothes.
Agree with this. I just wish Ole would take his head out of the sand and hire some better coaches. Or no 2 looks very distant right now, especially considering our next fixtures.
You need to do more research (not that you will actually care) because there was a whole hornets nest of trouble that Ole walked into in Cardiff. They were doomed to go down long before Ole took the job, and whilst he didn’t stop the inevitable it takes a certain kind of manager to play a certain way to get out of trouble like that. Why do you think Allardyce keeps getting hired? Now tell me, would you hire Fat Sam and task him with winning the league with this squad? I know I wouldn’t, and even if we did that he’d probably be straight into the market in jan for a DM.
It's chronic. We are chronic knee-jerkers who can't see the progress.
So you are ok with Ole continuing as manager even if fail to get out of this group?
So your standards are so low, it basically means Ole in even if he fails to get out of this CL group.
It’s madness isn’t it. Failure to progress through this group should result in instant dismissal considering the summer signings we’ve just brought in.
Would you agree progress would be staying in touch with the title winners or in the group of challengers till say March/Apr?
Would you say progress would mean getting through the CL group?
If neither happen, but we do end up in top 4, are you ok with that?
Btw I agree with you that in general Ole has stabilized things for our team/squad.
Edit. Subsequently saw your post above. I think we are on the same page regards to objectives. Unlike the OP who thinks not getting out of this CL group is ok.
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Read some of Op's posts. His expectations this season are a bit low. I wonder why
I think most of the negativity is purely because and based on the performances of our team in the last couple of seasons. I think the caf has been pretty consistent in judging the style of play because we've always been critical of the way we play. It's been since the Moyes era. We haven't come across a team that is gelled together and acts proficiently in dire situations. I know you'll come up and say we've been the best side with out away record and that we have battled back from losing situations in many occasions but that's always because of individual brilliance and some such. We haven't worked as a coherent unit in a long time. I know and understand that for a group to work consistently and together it takes time and Ole has brought in players in positions that were once our weaker positions but we still aren't playing a lot of good football. We struggle a lot when teams sit back and that's been our weakness in a long long time. Sancho was so good against Everton and I've missed players like him who actually manager to beat defenders and run past them with a little trickery. What's even more beautiful is that he manages to pass them and pick a nice pass to creative a chance. Our midfield is the only conundrum now and once we find a fantastic number 6 or a defensive midfielder who can hold off attacks, we'll develop into a flourishing side.
xG and xPts is why. Objectively - this team has not been performing well.
It’s been a great predictor of future results. After 3 years with Ole and his inability to deliver when it matters you’d only be insane to assume that will change moving forward.
It’s been a great predictor of future results. After 3 years with Ole and his inability to deliver when it matters you’d only be insane to assume that will change moving forward.
Surely it can’t be that cut and dry? If we missed out simply by the points dropped vs Young Boys you think it’s ok for Oles employment to be terminated on the basis of a rash tackle by AWB?
If he can't fix that one individual mistake in he following five games, then he has done to little to keep his job.
This coaches thing never sits well with me. We have to assume that the club - and this is not just Ole, we have a lot of senior people at this club with a view on how things are run - are either collectively completely blind to a team of coaches not fit for purpose, or that we actually do have a coaching setup that they are all currently satisfied with. The latter seems far more logical than the former to me. It's considerably easier and more cost effective to improve that than it is to improve the playing staff, so I just don't see any reason why we wouldn't be out there bringing in better people if it were seen to be beneficial
Exactly. Not sure why people can't understand this simple logic. Or may be they do understand but pretend not to.
Those people seem to be happy to be fan of another Arsenal or Spurs. Bottlers below the absolute top clubs.
Ole himself made comments about how the title cannot be won in the first few games of the season but, it can be lost. With the games we had compared to what will be our main rivals, the points we've dropped are a big deal and seem to be on a path to losing it.
Secondly, this has been story of Ole's tenure so far, no consistency in results/performances which is highlighted by the continued lack of identity on the pitch. It's not a matter of nitpicking or people not understanding football. No one from armchair quarterbacks to the professionals can figure out what this team is about. Cannot be blamed on lack of pre-season or whatever this time, had ample time to prepare and has had been backed to the hilt in terms of signings.
There is a lot to be said about the resilience of the team, the attitude that is built into the team where they consistently come back from games. But, first - fact that we have to come back from being behind so often yet again in this young season is not a great omen. On the matter of making adjustments, we still are not seeing tactical awareness/adjustments that help turn the game but, more about individuals having moments. That's more attributable to having resources to throw on and hope they can make a difference.
Rereading what am posting, it sounds like bashing on Ole and in some ways I guess that's true, just seeing a lot more of the same that has seen us not compete at the highest level even with the squad we have at our disposal.
Secondly, this has been story of Ole's tenure so far, no consistency in results/performances which is highlighted by the continued lack of identity on the pitch. It's not a matter of nitpicking or people not understanding football. No one from armchair quarterbacks to the professionals can figure out what this team is about. Cannot be blamed on lack of pre-season or whatever this time, had ample time to prepare and has had been backed to the hilt in terms of signings.
There is a lot to be said about the resilience of the team, the attitude that is built into the team where they consistently come back from games. But, first - fact that we have to come back from being behind so often yet again in this young season is not a great omen. On the matter of making adjustments, we still are not seeing tactical awareness/adjustments that help turn the game but, more about individuals having moments. That's more attributable to having resources to throw on and hope they can make a difference.
Rereading what am posting, it sounds like bashing on Ole and in some ways I guess that's true, just seeing a lot more of the same that has seen us not compete at the highest level even with the squad we have at our disposal.
You do understand we're still talking about a rebuild 3 years in with our current manager.
What is the club culture? To perennially underachieve relative to our spend? To give certain managers unlimited time to "rebuild"?
There has to be some accountability eventually. Ole has spent a fortune and has flattered to deceive over a full season. We will have good periods with him, but we also did with Jose and other previous managers. The goal now has to be to win some silverware, or in a worse case have a real title challenge where we narrowly miss out. Not still talking about cultural reboots or whatever other romantic nonsense you want to make you to absolve the manager.
Take this thread. The implication that fans are kneejerking after 7 games (actually 10 but that doesn't fit OP narrative), when in reality many have had concerns since Xmas of his first full season, and our worrying form in the last half dozen or so games last season.
You know your argument is nonsense because you want him to stay on the fear of the new manager doing a "rebuild" not because you actually think he's good enough for the job. If what Ole has done here is good enough why would the new manager require a rebuild from the scratch ? Absolute nonsense logic.
Winning something this season is important but not imperative; the minimum Ole, and we, should be prepared to accept is 2nd in the Prem and CL final and or FA Cup final. Winning any of those will be a good way to kick on and of course I hope we win the lot but being practical thats unlikely, but then so was The Treble! A good CL run to the final could be the making of Ole and his team.
You do remember we wasted 6 or 7 years after Fergie going nowhere with 3 different managers, one of which ruined a title winning team.
I'm not saying unlimited time to rebuild and there was progress these last two seasons definately. I get where you coming from but you can't expect us to bring in 3 brand new 1st team signings for it not to effect the team and just win every game. Surely time must be given for them to gel with others, learn teammates pattern of play etc. So you can't say Ole had 3 years when those signings came in just this last window?
Jose was absolutely toxic, United is one of the biggest clubs in the world yet he had us parking the bus every game like some championship club and that's not how united play, I used to snooze off during games. Not to mention him fighting with everyone including throwing players under the bus. He left the team in a worse state than when he found it. But if I understand correctly you want Ole out and now go back to the drawing board after so few games?
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Tbf us struggling to beat Villareal is no huge point against Ole, he’s the first United manager to manage a win against them.
Anyway, I’m Ole in, but you’d have to be a bit dense to be surprised at the backlash against Ole. It’s way harsher than it should be, and a lot of the same people were talking about us being no-hopers this early into last season, but it’s not as if it’s hard to understand why people are unhappy.