Maybe, the question then is where do you play him? Prime Kante couldn't cover the holes that would be left by Bruno and Pogs if it was a 3....
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Not really fair though, we won the Europa League with Pogba in the team, & scoring. We lost one when McTom was Caf MoM. To say he has failed to deliver isn’t exactly true.
People talk as if we have to play with 2 DMs & Pogba not being particularly suited to that role is his fault, he’s shown he can play in central midfields [mostly 3s] & win things. McTom doesn’t even start in midfield for Scotland.
The fact we set up in formations that let McTom flourish is the issue, he should be sacrificing his limited game to form a base for the creative players but instead we ask Pogba to sit so he can maraud down a dead end. Remove Pogba for another talented midfielder & we’re still asking them to curtail their game for an inferior player.
Like you imply it's a tricky puzzle to solve. I do think as a 3 it could work in a system where Bruno plays deeper and there is more structure. We would have to stop playing Bruno the way we are though and that could prove to be a net negative. I also think Pogba further forward on the left side of attack is a good option. We are stacked at that position but a Pogba, Sancho, Greenwood front three supported by Bruno, Fred and Ndidi should be formidable. We are of course missing the dm and the manager to solve this puzzle though. Arguably the two most important pieces.
I judge players based on their ceiling and as a consequence expectations. That's why you break records to sign them and pay them 250k+ a week. At the highest level, these are the players that make the difference when it matters, this is what they want too. Pogs in 6 years hasn't been this, it's not all down to him but there haven't been consistently enough big games from him, even when we have won them.
He can play it but for Utd, he is an absolute liability in a two and Ole knows it. It's quite the opposite for me, McFred do the leg work which allows Pogs (and Bruno) to play forward. This leaves those 2 limited players exposed, who in principle were never DMs or 6's in the first place.
Agree. Ole is trying to shoehorn players into a system rather than creating one and then getting the players to suit it. When Marcus comes back, he'll be in the shite as can't stick Pogs on the left. Pogs can then only play in midfield so he'll have to play either Scott, Fred or Matic. Neither of those 3 I believe can cover Pogs defensive indiscipline.
Played his best role yesterday - as an impact sub. Did what was expected.
Ndidi would compliment them both well
In that case, we need to bring him in come the Summer. Or Pogba leaves and we sign two central midfielders, one of who may or may not be Ndidi depending on how we want to play.
If we’re judging players based on their ceiling & expectations, then he has reached his ceiling in Finals for United, his previous club & at international level but not as a destroyer in a 2 man DM, so why would you expect him to play well in a position that no other manager thinks suits him? Seems a tad disingenuous.
As for his wage, it’s irrelevant what he is & or isn’t getting paid. Although when his & Ibras contracts were leaked he’s on nowhere near the £250k you’ve pulled out of thin air. Pogba has been underwhelming in his United career but to criticise him for his wages & fee when the likes of Fred & Maguire are the bigger reason for us playing the 4-2-3-1 isn’t really fair.
As for him being a liability in a 2, he’s no more so than McFred, there’s this weird thing with Pogba where this thread is littered with posters telling everyone what he doesn’t do as if McFred do that part of the game markedly better which isn’t true.
Lots of posters talk about the ‘leg work’ McFred do, but we’re conceding at a stupendous rate for a team that is so risk averse. If we were poor on the ball but keeping clean sheets then fine but they aren’t performing anywhere near as advertised.
Pogba’s lapses in midfield will at least be countered with his ability on it, at this point McFred run round loads to no great effect. Someone posted stills of their positioning when we’ve conceded this season some goals this season, all that ‘leg work’ is because they’re never in the right place to begin with.
The biggest issue is the formation & more so the coaching, Citeh bosses it at Angield with KdB, Bernardo & Rodrigo - there is absolutely no justification to be persisting with this formation after 3 years; it’s risk averse nonsense.
I’m happy to admit Pogba probably isn’t the long term answer but the McFred duos reputation far outweighs what they’ve been dishing up for some time now. The tandem were useful in Paris & a few games where we sat back to counter but should be nowhere near hone games we have the ball in. I genuinely believe the opposition get a boost psychologically, Troy Deeney was taking the p*ss out of Fred some time ago - Troy fecking Deeney.
Nice one. He’s got five since January and his performance yesterday was a cliff dive from Leeds. He literally fell off a cliff the next game though anyway. You said no one fell off a cliff quicker. Bruno fell off a cliff the next game when Pogba was superb.
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If you play Bruno and Pogba in a three then Kante would be a poor foil. Kante is a ball winning midfielder like Fred, who needs to engage the opposition. You need a disciplined, positionally savvy, deep-lying midfielder like Carrick to screen the defence for these two and to progress the ball to them.
That’s a lot of cliff’s mate
I think that 4/5 seasons into his career here we are still discussing where to play him to make hm mos teffective and cover the defensive weaknesses in his game is telling enough in itself.
For me, as talented as he obviusly is, the answer is you dont, we should have sold him in the summer, he creates more questions thatn he does answers in our team
Not sure the barometer always has to be in comparison to McFred. It polarises the argument like replacing them solves our problems.
Regarding his wages, I think it's very relevant and 'pulling out the air' comment, given I'm not the accountant, Pogs or his partner etc, I think we are allowed to make a guesstimate, otherwise everything you are saying would be fact, which it isn't.
Whilst things haven't been great and not advocating for McFred, there haven't been that many games this season when they have started together. There has been no upturn on the performances irrespective of who has played in midfield. If you posted stills about attacking and defending, you would see a number of concerns and again, it's not like they have played all the games together.
Not sure Pogs lapse in concentration can be justified by getting his World Cup medal out or a performance good performance, football has never worked like that.
I'm sure when Fred puts on his Brazil shirt, he won't be worrying what Troy fecking Deeney thinks or any other team. He is what he is, no worse or no better but despite what we can offer, our knowledge and assessment, tactical knowledge from behind our keyboards, he plays and starts most games for the biggest club in the world and the most prestigious international teams. The rest is just opinion.
I would agree.
Sick of the sight of him. He must be the best, most unpopular player in our history. Has so many amazing attributes but it's just never come together for us.
Reminds me a bit of Veron in that he's just not suited to the pace of the league. We should have got rid when Mourinho tried to sideline him.
Reminds me a bit of Veron in that he's just not suited to the pace of the league. We should have got rid when Mourinho tried to sideline him.
If we insist on play 4-2-3-1 [which we shouldn’t] replacing them with better players would solve the problem. The barometer is the duo due to the vast chances their given in spite of recent performances/results.
If you’re not his accountant & admit to a lack of knowledge on the issue then his wages are irrelevant as what you suppose you can’t substantiate.
If we’re going to criticise players for their reported fees & wages, that’s fine but I don’t ever see the same ‘guesstimates’ used to critique our club captain, £80mil with nothing of note to his resume, £50mil for Fred, AWB cost £50mil too didn’t he, etc.
You commented he’s on £250k+ as a statement of fact whilst I’ve stated my opinion on McFred as footballers. There’s a rather stark difference. We can debate McFred abilities based on our own perception, we can’t log into Pogba’s Halifax to check out his bank balance.
We’ve a fair enough sample size to know McFred have a specific use, in a certain type of game but the pair are just as fallible as any other we possess.
You make a good point, the continual chopping & changing doesn’t help anyone. Pogba, ‘the liability’, has played with Fred, McTom, Matic & from LW already this season.
I can’t speak for managers I don’t know but I don’t believe many would depend on a system that isn’t genuinely delivering results yet appeases McFred over other players. We can go back & forth about suitability in this system but the system is the issue.
It wasn’t used as a justification though was it, we’re now venturing into wilfull ignorannce. The ‘fact’ [you like those] is that Pogba has played in Central Midfield & won multiple things but at no point was he played in the role you want to judge him on. which seems unfair as his lapses in concentration are overstated.
What we do know is Paul Pogba has won something at club/international level in midfield & we can’t say the same about McFred.
It’s always a disingenuous discussion with Pogba, people focus on his weaknesses then mention how McFred ‘have legs’ as if their work on the ball isn’t negligible & for all their running we still concede goals/opportunities at a high rate.
For a man who wants to talk about facts, it’s rather telling you’ve dismissed the ‘fact’ Premier League players openly mock Fred for his failings by mentioning his international call ups. Tom Cleverly played more times for England than Steve Bruce, oh wait that’s just as irrelevant.
In your mind, what system should we play to get the best out of him?
The discussion often centres around Pogba as if he’s the only one that struggles currently in our system, I could name a myriad of formations but this isn’t football manager; we’ve got numerous talented players who aren’t excelling due to the overall approach. Our wingers rarely get into spaces others do, finding themselves doubled up on too much. Our current 2 DM set up covers up the deficiencies of our £80mil captain but puts 2 midfielders on the pitch who are a negative with the ball. Other things too.
I watched Citeh go to Anfield & boss it with Bernardo, KdB & Rodri - there’s a 3 man midfield in our squad. Most formations can be effective when drilled right, we could look better in a ‘4-2-3-1’ but you see whenever the players change, the roles do too.
Safe to say he will be signing a pre-contract somewhere in January. Annoying he will leave again for nothing but I also think the club would be mad to give him the money his agent wants.
Flirting with Juventus again. He simply loves to wind up.
Real Madrid I could understand however going to Juve at this point just says ok I cant handle the level of competition in the Premier League, I want a step down. Juve are not serious challengers for anything and Italian league is weak.
I get it if he is frustrated with being here, never really clicked that well but he should be the one really pushing for Conte IMO. If he cares about his professional success and of course he does.
Conte was the manager that got him to play at a high level, instead of going to Juventus, get what worked at Juventus here. Push for Conte, Paul.
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His star has really been fading, moments of brilliance, especially his passing at times. But no longer looks like a player that is gonna be the best player everytime he steps on the pitch. Would only want to keep him if Ole leaves, he has no clue how to get the most out of Bruno and Pogba.
It's a thread worthy topic in fairness, is it to the benefit of the team as a whole to extend his contract? He's a tactically demanding player and the wages he's on and his profile mean he's a pretty guaranteed starter. We've got a better and more natural alternative on the left in Rashford, if we're playing in a 4231 shape, and we've already seen that there is no silver bullet midfielder (at least not currently at the club) who can make up for what he lacks in a midfield 2. There was a rumour this summer that Ole would go to 433 which made people think Bruno and Pogba would both play as #8s, but again, we don't have that superhuman midfielder to hold that together and we've yet to see how that would affect Bruno's output.
Given this will be his last major contract, it's likely he'll push for at least 4 years. I can't help think that we are doing a similar mistake to the Rooney deal, for different reasons (Rooney was declining fast), with limiting our tactical options and how we can develop this team.
Caveat: He's a class player. Just a difficult fit.
Given this will be his last major contract, it's likely he'll push for at least 4 years. I can't help think that we are doing a similar mistake to the Rooney deal, for different reasons (Rooney was declining fast), with limiting our tactical options and how we can develop this team.
Caveat: He's a class player. Just a difficult fit.
Said in the transfer tweets thread but I’m interested to see what’s caused him to change his mind drastically.
I know there’s a certain Algerian-French guy who’s a big fan of his and the feeling is mutual on Pogbas side too, and that said Algerian-French guy isn’t doing anything at the moment…
I know there’s a certain Algerian-French guy who’s a big fan of his and the feeling is mutual on Pogbas side too, and that said Algerian-French guy isn’t doing anything at the moment…
All of our players are looking average under Ole right now (apart from De Gea). I think they're losing confidence in him and no longer believe in the project. Maybe Pogba thinks we'll be getting a new manager soon and that's why he's sticking it out?
There was a point in time where I’d have taken Samir Nasri but not sure he’s what we need currently.
We have Ronaldo and Cavani, the last thing we need is another ageing CF in Benzema.
Unless you're talking about Bentaleb who I don't think is the answer to our midfield problems.
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Having him in the squad is better than not having him. That would be good.
Is he not talking about Zidane?
The thing is with Pogba at Utd is the fact he has been shunted out onto the lw as for whatever reason(s) he doesnt suit us in midfield. The fact he has to have player x or player y, depending on whos discussing him, beside him to play in midfield is a joke and obviously for whatever reason(s) we apparently dont want to get in player x or y, but still hoping he signs a new contract.
When Rashford comes back, an Ole favourite, where is Pogba going to play then? Does he still get stuck on the left and Rashford who is a passenger on the rw wing when played gets pushed back on the right, so Ole can squeeze him in?
The fact reports now saying Pogba wants to sign a new contract, does this mean Raiola hasnt been able to persuade Madrid and others to bite the bullet and offer him more than Utd want to pay?
I hate the fact hes keeping the club sweatiing on him signing and I hate the fact the club are fawning all over him and hope whatever contract already on the table isnt ripped up and an higher offer is offered.
When Rashford comes back, an Ole favourite, where is Pogba going to play then? Does he still get stuck on the left and Rashford who is a passenger on the rw wing when played gets pushed back on the right, so Ole can squeeze him in?
The fact reports now saying Pogba wants to sign a new contract, does this mean Raiola hasnt been able to persuade Madrid and others to bite the bullet and offer him more than Utd want to pay?
I hate the fact hes keeping the club sweatiing on him signing and I hate the fact the club are fawning all over him and hope whatever contract already on the table isnt ripped up and an higher offer is offered.
We shouldn’t extend, there’s no balanced way of fitting both Bruno and Pogba in the team and keeping our attacking options in the lineup, let’s be clear on that. However, we don’t go by the logic in this club.
Not sure it's good for him to stay if he hasn't got a permanent spot
Could be part of the negotiations with say PSG but also there's not much on offer for him. Still playing wise I think he might be better off taking a drop in wages to be a creative player in a 4-3-3 or in a similar position to Bruno at another club.
Could be part of the negotiations with say PSG but also there's not much on offer for him. Still playing wise I think he might be better off taking a drop in wages to be a creative player in a 4-3-3 or in a similar position to Bruno at another club.
God no, we don't need Pogba and his circus around the club.
At Newcastle?
It’s balanced if he plays on the left if we had 2 decent midfielders which we don’t . That’s not a pogba problem
Dont extend. 5 years in and he still is as inconsistent as an 18 year old. He will never work properly with Bruno here as well, and i also think he is the most overrated player that has played for United.
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