What is important right now is to have enough money to pay the interest of the existing debt and also the ongoing operating expense, and hope for economy to recover and increase the revenue. Barcelona needs time to get some breathing room. Barcelona is paying interest for existing debt, not net debt.
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
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According to your opinion Barcelona will have money to sign or not?
How many years will it take to have money to sign?
Barcelona will be forced to sell their best players?
And the last and most important, in your opinion the rebuild is going wrong, why and how would you do it?
Of course, I was being sarcastic.
They clearly have no money to sign anyone. With debts of €1.4bn minimum the debt service per year is a minimum of €28m (that is if they got an average loan rate of 2%, which is incredibly unlikely considering their credit rating.) That just pays the interest and not any of the underlying debt off.
As for how long it will take is anyones guess, however I would say this is probably a minimum of a decade unless they get brought out (not going to happen) as TV revenues have plateaued and the club is dependent on income from sponsors (also plateauing) and museum tours/fans which will take a hit of some sort with the quality of the current side.
As for the rebuild, it looks as if they're going to have to do it with young players/the academy. That is highly risky, as it is almost certain they'll not have another golden generation come through. This has been seen with other clubs such as Ajax (70's) and Utd (90's) who had a golden generation but then couldn't follow it up as it was a one off to get such quantity in one generation.
Based on the barcelona's annual report, current expense level is even higher than revenue in 2018/19 pre-covid. However with Messi and Griezmann 's salary off the book things may get better down the road. It will take some time for Barcelona to clean up the mess.
Barcelona does pay debt every year, for example in the amortization of players that this year is €170M.
The Goldman Sachs loan is €595M + 70M extendable at an interest of 1.98%
Some interesting economic data from the CEO of Barcelona
Net financial debt. "That debt has gone from 159 million in 2017 to 673 million in 2021. More than 500 million and never went through the assembly"
How much will the Espai cost and what will be the financing?
"The stadium will not cost less than 800 or 950. If we want the best Palau, we will move between 300-400 million. We will ask for the maximum limit of 1,500 million in Assembly, so that they accept us to go and ask for that credit. We want to have that transparency."
Can people like Ansu, Pedri or Gavi be signed and renewed?
"Pedri and Ansu are on the right track. The last departure of an important player generates a positive fair play of more than 20 million. That's not to say we don't have to do our homework. Barça have not yet finished lowering their wage bill. We are very clear that we have to have a competitive team. The short term forced us to make drastic decisions. We know we have to have the best possible team. We will do our best."
You also have to take into account not all that debt is to be repaid, there is a lot of accounting cheating. Inflating the losses and blaming Bartomeu and so next year present very good accounts
Barcelona will be fine. Just need couple years of time to clean up the mess. Barcelona's revenue is the highest among football clubs. They just need to cut the expense and balance the book.
Again, and this cannot be stressed enough, Barcelona’s figures are heavily inflated by their shirt deal to the sum of over 100 million euros per year.
Revenue means feck all if it’s a fake number because you decided to take manufacturing in house.
In my opinion the rebuild is going wrong because they have sold players like Firpo, Todibo, Miranda, Cucurella, Arthur, Emerson etc. maybe not world beaters but players who had done okay in the Spanish league and will only get better and gain more value. They have been sold for next to nothing mainly as well so its not like they have eased the debts much.
The remains is built around ageing players like Alba, Pique, and Busquets. Then the baffling signings of De Jong and Aguero, another declining player yet on huge wages.
Even if you can get a few academy players through and turn the finances round to have any power in the market before long the ageing core of the team needs replacing as well as the players you need to find to fit round them in the here and now. Its a huge mess from both a financial and squad building perspective
I'm afraid you're confusing 2 kinds of amortizations, the process of paying off debt through regular payments and the spreading out of capital expenses related to assets over a specific duration for accounting purposes. Usually when a club says it amortizes players, it doesn't pay debts, it just lowers the value of said players in its books.
I can see pep coming back home next season.
Not a hope. Sacking Koeman and getting a upgrade will definitely make Barca better but they need a whole rebuild and they don’t have the money. Pep even if successful at doing a rebuild would still need 3-4 years to do it instead of staying at city we’re he can challenge for the PL and CL
He's going to be outspent next season and he's not going to tarnish his reputation at city by staying any longer. He's going to quit while he's on top and try to be the saviour of barcelona.
Outspent by who ? Also they are the best team in England by a mile. He can’t tarnish anything, he spent a billion but he literally cleared up domestically
The saudis.
Of all those players Emerson is the only one who should have stayed. The others are well sold, maybe Cucurella but his ideal position is LB in a 3 CB defense.
Anyway there is Baldé and he has many capabilities to be a great player.
Arthur and Todibo have trouble being good professionals.
I wish it were true but Pep will not return to Barcelona
Who? The new owners of Newcastle?
I believe that the ones who will be harmed the most in the next 3-5 years will be Arsenal, Tottenham and Leicester.
What are the teams that sign tier 2 players.
The top will continue to go to Liverpool, United, City and Chelsea.
Liverpool will need to start spending more to attract genuine world class talent.
A couple of good posts by the second posters, the amortisation is an accounting trick and not a real world payment. Then their is also the issue of the shirt deal also being used as an accounting trick, so that they can circumnavigate La Liga FFP rather than it being a real world payment.
On top of this there are other issues. The book value they have for a lot of their players isn't what they're going to achieve in the transfer market, thus the net v gross debt needs to be taken with a pitch of salt. Then there is the stadium finance which shouldn't really be set aside from the playing side finances as as the club are on the hook for it, only difference is the length of time before that contract matures.
As I said, at 2% they debt servicing is €30m (approx.) a year and that does not pay off any of the underlying amounts. Therefore, at €1.4bn (Barca are more than likely to post losses for the next few years as you don't go from -€400m+ to in the black easily) they will probably need to pay something like €80m+ on debt as otherwise it isn't going to come down at all.
Barcelona will give the economic balance in detail on the 17th. There we can see something else but those accounts are full of accounting traps There we can see something else but those accounts are full of accounting traps.
We can take into account the ebitda for example to see if that gives us a more accurate view of the situation.
18/19 - 179M
19/20 - 104M
Losses are inflated. If I'm honest with you, a guy like Laporta shouldn't be voted for by anyone, he doesn't tell a truth even if he's wrong.
He already did it when he arrived in the previous stage in the club against Gaspart, they denounced that economic balance and Laporta lost. Bartomeu, I suppose, will denounce these numbers presented.
Waiting for a more detailed presentation of the 'due diligence', Laporta did break down the items of the total debt of 1,350 million: "673 million are bank debt; 389 of debt to players, including deferred salaries and payment commitments for various concepts such as loyalty and career bonuses; 56 for commitments related to Espai Barça; 96 for litigation in which the club thinks that our claims will not be estimated, 40 million for the subscriptions that can not be charged this course as the club has decided so because it has not been able to attend any match last season, and 79 for the advance of 50% of the television rights of LaLiga, among other concepts".
Not all debt is bank with its respective interests.
Barcelona presents gross income and expenses in all sections.
We can take into account the ebitda for example to see if that gives us a more accurate view of the situation.
18/19 - 179M
19/20 - 104M
The CEO's account continuously revolved around what he considered "disastrous" management of the previous board to justify that volume of losses estimated at 481 million, of which 128 million belong to a questionable depreciation of players and 100 million more to provisions for litigation that are also the consequence of applying subjective accounting criteria.
Losses are inflated. If I'm honest with you, a guy like Laporta shouldn't be voted for by anyone, he doesn't tell a truth even if he's wrong.
He already did it when he arrived in the previous stage in the club against Gaspart, they denounced that economic balance and Laporta lost. Bartomeu, I suppose, will denounce these numbers presented.
Waiting for a more detailed presentation of the 'due diligence', Laporta did break down the items of the total debt of 1,350 million: "673 million are bank debt; 389 of debt to players, including deferred salaries and payment commitments for various concepts such as loyalty and career bonuses; 56 for commitments related to Espai Barça; 96 for litigation in which the club thinks that our claims will not be estimated, 40 million for the subscriptions that can not be charged this course as the club has decided so because it has not been able to attend any match last season, and 79 for the advance of 50% of the television rights of LaLiga, among other concepts".
Not all debt is bank with its respective interests.
If Barca could afford his severance pay, he would be gone in a second. Koeman is not just inadequate, he is an embarassment for them at this point. Sad situation
The bolded is absolutely staggering. That is almost a whole yearly salary budget that will have to be paid sooner rather than later to players, some of whom will probably have left the club by the time they get paid.
Pep has been outspent by Man Utd for the past 5 years already and he is fine.
Imagine being this cocky, and this wrong, in the same post you claim another poster is “abjectly wrong as you often are”.
Cheers Laporta, for giving this gullible bunch a wake up call about how the World works in reality. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/58845043
The CEO said yesterday that there was 20M of salary bill to invest in signings product of the reduction that was made in the summer.
The reason why he doesn't fire him is that he works as a shield. If Laporta hires a new coach and fails the blame will go directly to him. The only coach who could bring peace of mind to work is Xavi, the thing is that he went with another candidacy and Laporta will not sign him if he has another option.
Yes, the debt is huge and there is no other option but to bet on young players.
In addition, the money that can be spent on signings must be correct, if those signings do not work the thing will get much worse
Yuste (Barcelona's 1st VP) just gave an interview to Mundo Deportiva and he sounds far less optimistic than what we've heard lately.
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Yep they're in big trouble. Their football budget as determined by the Spanish FA is around 120m and that includes all salaries, transfers and even things like appartments and cars.
They're not going to spend big for a number of years or possibly longer if they drop out of top 4, which is likely if you're relying on Luuk de Jong and Dest.
They're not going to spend big for a number of years or possibly longer if they drop out of top 4, which is likely if you're relying on Luuk de Jong and Dest.
it is not a matter of cash (or not mainly), it is because the FFP rules and that any coach you hire now will have a very very very difficult time and you can burn him
Just read they want to modernise Camp Nou and make it 110k.
Their mini stadium too small so talk they'll play at Montjuic for a season.
Their mini stadium too small so talk they'll play at Montjuic for a season.
https://www.transfermarkt.us/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1That myth again. Btw arsenal has spent as much as us over the past 5 years
Man utd out spent Man City for the past 5 years, and spent as much for the past 10 years.
@VidaRed show spend as in expenditures. You are showing net spend, which includes sales. Two entirely different things which can be leveraged different ways to tell different stories.
His original statement is still valid. City have outspent United when it comes to transfers the past 5 seasons.
behave yourself. Whilst uniteds situation has been a clusterfeck, it's simply nothing on the appalling management of barcelona. The fans don't deserve the mess the club is in, but the management do. Criminal scum within one of the biggest clubs in the world..now barca are reaping what they sowed.
behave myself? This is nearly 80 pages of slagging Barca but okay
To be fair, net spend is the best indicator of a clubs finances as it provides an indication of the quality level the club is buying.
Were discussing monies "spent" instead of "club finances".
As far as the latter is concerned pogba might walk again for free skewing our "net spend".
yes. united management has been poor for a decade from, but barça management has been criminal. criminal, in a literal way. some of them should be in jail for many reasons. we are paying their idiocy and criminal activity now and in the next year (totally deserved).
I certainly don't want barcelona to suffer any more criminals. Absolute disgrace. Hopefully, the next two years will see them return alot more financially prudent.
Barca's rebuild being only one or two years is absolutely delusional. Their player budget inc salaries is 120m according to La Liga. If they fail top 4, which is a good possibility it'll take even longer.
Aguero isn't on massive wages.
Busquets' replacement should be De Jong. They definitely need a LB and CB. Although I feel like Alba still has something to offer for now, unlike Pique.
Should've kept Firpo. Incredible. Like how City fans think we should keep Ole, right?
Aguero isn't on massive wages.
Busquets' replacement should be De Jong. They definitely need a LB and CB. Although I feel like Alba still has something to offer for now, unlike Pique.
Everytime I see Koeman's name I remember one epic match Lille vs Benfica where he used a 6x2x2 with 4 center backs 