This is the first time I want us to lose

Kaos · Oct 21, 2021

I want us winning every game, and last night was a game we absolutely had to win, not least for the hope that we might bring in a manager to steer us through the knockout stages of the competition and to avoid another tiresome Europa campaign. And as for wanting us to lose against Liverpool - absolutely not, doesn't matter how bad things get, I never want us losing to these dippers.

However having said all that, while I disagree with the OP, I can perhaps sympathise with them somewhat. The fact is we have a hopelessly incompetent, and unambitious board who we know would not act quickly to do what needs to be done. And the sad reality is the only thing that would force them to act quickly instead of dithering to waste another season is to have our manager being put under seriously negative pressure. It does say something when our rival fans probably enjoyed our victory last night as much as we did.

kouroux · Oct 21, 2021

I want Ole gone but there are limits to things. The OP is fecking nuts

RedBanker · Oct 21, 2021

Your honesty is admirable OP. But remember that it's a Manchester United win despite the manager. He will get his due treatment in time, because even our callous board will wake up sooner rather than later. Manchester United is greater than all of us. Supporters, legends, so called legends. Cheer the TEAM on against Pool. Fcuk the manager.

DickDastardly · Oct 21, 2021

I get where you're coming from OP.

There were similar threads going on when Jose was in charge and things got similary toxic.

While i don't think Ole should be put in the same "toxic" drawer as Jose, we could agree on the fact he's not a top manager and our team is suffering from it.

Could he get better? He could. Will he? Time will tell.
The only way forward is winning games, not losing them.

A view that things should get worse before they get better is a valid view, and if by "getting better" means getting a better manager, they yes, i see why you'd want us to lose.

The only problem with that is I personally - fecking hate when we lose. Ruin my week kind of hate. So, i'd rather we win.

Jericho · Oct 21, 2021

led_scholes said:
Dont care if we win tonight. Dont care about the so-called "true" supporters and their traditional ways. They can go support Moyes and West Ham. I' m just sick of Ole's nepotism; sick of Ole's cowardness and dull football.

I just hope that this defeat, in addition with the unavoidable defeat vs Liverpool will trigger Ole's overdue sacking. The season is still early, why throw it away by December as we did with Moyes and LVG?

I don't agree with anyone criticizing the OP, this is clearly a post from a fan who cares and wants the club to succeed but just doesn't see it as even remotely possible in the current situation.

Tom Cato · Oct 21, 2021

Sviken said:
Guardiola spent more than 500, Ole 450 million. The difference between the two teams is night and day, not only in terms of results but in terms of play, as well.

So? Maguire is our second highest transfer and i'm sure you won't say he has justified his price. Works for the system and being a "solid player" is simply conceding to my point. A large part of Liverpool's team would look like a bunch of donkeys if they played under Ole. Klopp, instead, has made them look like world beaters while we sit here and wonder whether Ronaldo makes us press less, or Pogba being a luxury player, or the fact that Bruno is simply too unpredictable and problematic as a player and we should sell him. It's insane.

I know that this won't matter for you, even if it means debunking your argument. Mostly since your mind is made up and nothing anyone tells you will change it.

Annual football transfer fee inflation sits at an average of 26%. A player bought in 2012 now costs 3 times as much, for the same player.

Ahead of the 17/18 season, Pep brought in 6 first team players at a cost of 294 000 000 Euro (players sold for around 80 million euro, so lets call it a 214 million euro net spend). Adjusted for inflation of 26% that number is 425 million Euro. In 2021 money.

Pep has spent significantly more money than Ole on a significant larger number of players than Ole.

Now, my argument is not that we have spent better or that we're as good a team. My argument is that you can take that spend number and stop using it since your argument has more holes in it than a tiktok influencers soul.

Since 16/17, Pep has brought in 25 first team players that have featured in some capacity either as permanent starters or squad players. That's an average of 4 players every season. One more than Manchester United, but more noteably he brought in 6 players the first year and 7 the next year.

The only reason the spending spree hasn't continued unchecked is beacause Pep got lego money to spend to buy all the players he wanted over 2 seasons and after that had to play hide-and-seek with the clubs accounting since they're having a laugh at FFP.

Listen. Manchester City has a better squad and probably a better manager. But to say that we've "spent the same and look where we are" is about as truthful as saying that you're not going to ignore everything I said.

Sviken · Oct 21, 2021

Flexdegea said:
Sorry where you pulling them numbers from?

Are you talking about while both been in the job at the same time, near sure pep spent a billion, on a ready made team pretty much that previously won titles.

As I say zero context of where both where starting from regarding their squads.

Transfermarkt. And yes, I'm talking from the moment Ole took the job. Where did Ole start from, really? You guys are arguing like he took over Moyes. We were second place with more points than Ole has yet to achieve. Then Mourinho imploded and basically self-sabotaged himself, but that doesn't mean the squad was shit. I'm not even going to discuss and how much Ole has overspent him. If we do not have the best managers, we're never gonna win anything and we'd be content with pulling scrappy wins against the likes of Atalanta.

Jippy said:
You were arguing those Liverpool players weren't fit to play for relegation teams, which is clear nonsense. You seemingly only communicate through the medium of hyperbole, eg honing in on the fringe groups of fans who want to sell Bruno when the majority love him. You're also focusing on Liverpool's weaker squad players, overlooking an amazing attacking trio and the liked of VVD and Alisson, who are genuinely world class.
No-one is arguing Klopp isn't a better manager.

No, that is your interpretation of what I said. I quite clearly said "bottom table" teams, meaning teams around the relegation zone but not "relegation teams". Crystal Palace, for example (albeit Viera is doing a good job at the moment). Look at our "weaker squad players". McFred. Why can't they be solid? I doubt Henderson or Millner are any better than them skill wise, but Klopp has made them play how he wants successfully. We can do the same with a better manager. My point about VVD is that when he was brought, people were calling him a decent defender, grossly overpaid for and no better than Maguire. Yet here we are, Maguire right now wouldn't be even fit to lace his shoes. Is this all down to the players themselves or coaching? I'd argue the latter.

Tom Cato · Oct 21, 2021

Jericho said:
I don't agree with anyone criticizing the OP, this is clearly a post from a fan who cares and wants the club to succeed but just doesn't see it as even remotely possible in the current situation.

No, this is a entitled fan that can't bear to support the club if we're not winning.

DomesticTadpole · Oct 21, 2021

I certainly don't want us to lose a game, but I hate being put through the wringer like that because the manager constantly sends the team out either in the wrong formation, wrong tactics or wrong attitude. I want him to get it right to prove me wrong, but he keeps proving me right. Manchester United should not be going into a game against Liverpool with dread. We should be their equals or even betters.

Rightnr · Oct 21, 2021

You'll get stick but I can understand. I'm sick of watching us play dull, sleep-inducing football and when we come back against some average team I then have to stop myself from despairing because I think it's all in vain because I do not believe this manager is ever winning us anything of note.

led_scholes · Oct 21, 2021

POF said:
So, during the Moyes, LVG and Jose disasters you were fine with it? Watched Moyes take the 11 point champions to 7th, watched LVG set records for home games without a shot on target in the first half and watched Jose create a level of toxicity that has never been seen before at the club, but never wanted the team to lose? That was all fine?

But Ole, who has rebuilt a shitshow of a squad, finished above the almighty saviours of football Liverpool last season, set records for the most consecutive away games unbeaten and has instilled a fighting spirit that has brought back thrilling comebacks to OT and is a club legend who loves the club has driven you to wanting the team to lose?

"Nepotism, cowardness and dull football"? Some people have really short memories.

No I wasn't happy with any of them. With Moyes I didn't want him in the first place but I had in my mind that mayyyybe he can turn it around. I enjoyed most of the 2014-2015 season, especially the ending. But I knew LVG was short term and were already in the hunt for the new manager. 2016-2017 despite its comes and ups was my favorite season post Fergie. But eventually Jose's sacking came a bit too late. Honestly, trusting more these managers (myself and the board, and I think most of the fans) than what we should have, is making me more frustrated that 3 years later we don't see any major improvements despite the immense funding.

Mike Smalling · Oct 21, 2021

The sad reality is, that things probably have to really go to shit, before any action is taken leaving the next manager with a much bigger task to get us to the top. If we had somewhat competent owners, they would recognize the problem and replace Ole as soon as possible. Obviously depending on the options available, this could potentially be while we can still challenge for the title and definitely in time for the CL knock-out stages.

Instead, we will likely have to endure who knows how long with Ole with no trophies until he eventually misses a top four or fails to make it out of the group stages in CL. But by then we are likely to be without Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic and maybe Pogba, so we would potentially be looking at another rebuild.

I will never sit down to watch a United game and hope for a loss, but when we do lose, it is a small silver lining that the pressure builds on Ole. He is not the guy.

Mickson · Oct 21, 2021

Mike Smalling said:
The sad reality is, that things probably have to really go to shit, before any action is taken leaving the next manager with a much bigger task to get us to the top. If we had somewhat competent owners, they would recognize the problem and replace Ole as soon as possible. Obviously depending on the options available, this could potentially be while we can still challenge for the title and definitely in time for the CL knock-out stages.

Instead, we will likely have to endure who knows how long with Ole with no trophies until he eventually misses a top four or fails to make it out of the group stages in CL. But by then we are likely to be without Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic and maybe Pogba, so we would potentially be looking at another rebuild.

I will never sit down to watch a United game and hope for a loss, but when we do lose, it is a small silver lining that the pressure builds on Ole. He is not the guy.

This is good, and exactly how I see it. I don't want us to lose, because I may think like this, but at the end of the game, I'm there cheering us to win. But as long as Ole keeps winning the odd game, he will stay and we will go nowhere under him.

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson · Oct 21, 2021

Sviken said:
You're arguign like Ole hasn't been here for 3 seasons and spent almost as much as Pep did. How long do we have to wait before we start playing like Pep or Klopp's teams? 5? 10? 20 years? 50? I don't get it. It's like Saint Ole is working on a shoestring budget and a top 4 finish is something to be appreciated greatly.

Pep inherited a good team. Ole inherited an average team including Luke Shaw cowering in a corner after what Jose did to him… see what he did last year (arguably best or one of the best LBs in football)

Citys funding has been ridiculous. Pep had the England goalie, binned him then binned the next one. He buys two £40mish FBs, doesn’t like them so gets two more. He’s spent about a Billion?

Its clear you hate Ole (and I’m not saying he’s perfect/doesn’t make mistakes) but it’s a night and day comparison of what they inherited/funding used.

Regalia · Oct 21, 2021

Mike Smalling said:
*SNIP*

Instead, we will likely have to endure who knows how long with Ole with no trophies until he eventually misses a top four or fails to make it out of the group stages in CL. But by then we are likely to be without Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic and maybe Pogba, so we would potentially be looking at another rebuild.

I will never sit down to watch a United game and hope for a loss, but when we do lose, it is a small silver lining that the pressure builds on Ole. He is not the guy.

I believe this quote is what the OP was going for in a much more emotionally-fueled and negative way. Good job putting it in a much more eloquent manner than we have. As I alluded to as well, I would gladly accept a few losses right here, right now if it was a guarantee that meant a change in manager/coaching staff. We know after the last 3 years that we are going to end up nowhere with Ole anyway. We also know Woody and the Glazers will never sack him if he meets his Top 4 targets. Hypothetically, I don't see the problem taking a loss to Liverpool on the chin now knowing that the loss might potentially set us on a course to dominate Liverpool for the next 5 years with a better manager.

These wins we get despite the Ole (which ironically paper over the cracks and help save his bacon) are doing nothing except prolonging the suffering and severely holding us back. I really, really do not want to see this squad waste away into nothing and when we eventually get a new manager, it will be too late (as usual) and we start from scratch again.

Sviken · Oct 21, 2021

BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Its clear you hate Ole (and I’m not saying he’s perfect/doesn’t make mistakes) but it’s a night and day comparison of what they inherited/funding used.

Wut? I don't hate Ole, far from it. He is an absolute legend at the club no matter what happens. I just think that as a manager he's simply no good enough to guide this side to anything special.

tenpoless · Oct 21, 2021

So you were happy when we sold Jaap Stam

Offside · Oct 21, 2021

Unfortunately this place is littered with glory hunting e-reds who have no idea what it’s all about.

Slysi17 · Oct 21, 2021

Yeah not really a wise move to state that on the forum that you want Manchester United to lose. You will get pelters. I am not watching Manchester United's next few games as I have Univeristy exams coming up and would rather ditch football and focus on that. For me its way more important than Manchester United. But that's because I want to do well in my exams and I think they are important. More important than supporting the team really. I mean the football that the team play has only been entertaining on very few occassions.

Sarni · Oct 21, 2021

I won't really criticize the OP as I felt the same under Moyes but that was mostly because on top of being a bad managerial fit for us, he was also a smug person I did not like and found it hard to support a team under his reign. With Ole I admit he's not fit for the job but at least he's not smug like Moyes was. With LvG and Mourinho despite not liking them as managers I was also not as resigned as I was in the Moyes era.

RUCK4444 · Oct 21, 2021

TrueRed79 said:
Wanting your team to lose because you don't like the manager...talk about being an entitled pr!ck. Should be a banable offence.

Should be.

Dinghy · Oct 21, 2021

Don't see nothing wrong about wanting bad results for a manager to be gone asap if you think he's the completely wrong guy for the job. Was hoping for bad results at the end of LVG's and Mourinho's reign here, but I'm not there yet with OGS.

RedSky · Oct 21, 2021

Dinghy said:
Don't see nothing wrong about wanting bad results for a manager to be gone asap if you think he's the completely wrong guy for the job. Was hoping for bad results at the end of LVG's and Mourinho's reign here, but I'm not quite there yet with OGS.

So you watch our games hoping we lose?

led_scholes · Oct 21, 2021

Mike Smalling said:
The sad reality is, that things probably have to really go to shit, before any action is taken leaving the next manager with a much bigger task to get us to the top. If we had somewhat competent owners, they would recognize the problem and replace Ole as soon as possible. Obviously depending on the options available, this could potentially be while we can still challenge for the title and definitely in time for the CL knock-out stages.

Instead, we will likely have to endure who knows how long with Ole with no trophies until he eventually misses a top four or fails to make it out of the group stages in CL. But by then we are likely to be without Ronaldo, Cavani, Matic and maybe Pogba, so we would potentially be looking at another rebuild.

I will never sit down to watch a United game and hope for a loss, but when we do lose, it is a small silver lining that the pressure builds on Ole. He is not the guy.

I think you put it much better than me. I perhaps gave the wrong impression that I was cheering for Atalanta. It was more apathy to the loss than usual disappointment. If Ole manages to turn this around starting from yesterday and then beating Liverpool and building from it, I ll be glad. I just don't see it. I m just in the point that if we lose and something bright can happen from the loss, so be it.

JJ12 · Oct 21, 2021

What a pathetic opinion

led_scholes · Oct 21, 2021

tenpoless said:
So you were happy when we sold Jaap Stam

I don't see the connection here. To be honest, I was not unhappy when we sold Ruud.

Woodzy · Oct 21, 2021

Lets be honest, last night was the perfect result for us because we got a win that keeps us in the Champions League ready for the next manager, shows that the players have it in them to pull it off and most importantly just further casts doubts over Ole's capability going into one the trickiest set of fixtures he will ever have had to deal with.

Sassy Colin · Oct 21, 2021

Barthez said:
Prat!

@esmufc07

Fletchageddon · Oct 21, 2021

Offside said:
Unfortunately this place is littered with glory hunting e-reds who have no idea what it’s all about.

e-reds is an amazing description. If you want United to lose, ANY match, go and support City. God knows they need the fans.

RedBanker · Oct 21, 2021

RUCK4444 said:
Should be.

Don't pile on him. Just because he has been able to come out with probably one of his darkest thoughts concerning our team. His approach is negative and he needs to believe in the greatness of Man United, rather than what happens to individuals managing or playing for the club. Advise him, don't gang up. Just my two cents.

IncyWincySpider · Oct 21, 2021

I remember wanting England to lose when McLaren was in charge, and I was glad when he failed to qualify for the euros because the football was awful and I wanted him gone, so I can kind of understand the sentiment.

But it's very different with Ole because I really like him and want him to succeed, even though it doesn't look as though he will. I keep thinking maybe it will just click, a few wins on the trot, especially against the big teams we have coming up and maybe, just maybe, something will change.

Kaos · Oct 21, 2021

IncyWincySpider said:
I remember wanting England to lose when McLaren was in charge, and I was glad when he failed to qualify for the euros because the football was awful and I wanted him gone, so I can kind of understand the sentiment.

But it's very different with Ole because I really like him and want him to succeed, even though it doesn't look as though he will. I keep thinking maybe it will just click, a few wins on the trot, especially against the big teams we have coming up and maybe, just maybe, something will change.

I've been thinking that for almost 3 years. Yet here we are with the best squad we've had in a decade and we've somehow gotten worse than we were last year. Its gotten to the point where I've accepted he can't take us any further.

The Brown Bull · Oct 21, 2021

I never want us to lose. We are supporters ffs!
I had great regard for Ole the player. I really wished he could cut it as manager but I’m afraid he isn’t. Sad really.
That said I was roaring myself hoarse last night and will be again Sunday.

Dinghy · Oct 21, 2021

RedSky said:
So you watch our games hoping we lose?

I watch our games to be entertained. With LVG and Mourinho, the last few months in charge I were hoping they were going to be sacked asap for the greater good of the club, as we were going nowhere, and that involves us losing a couple of games in a stint. If I think the manager is crap and totally unable to turn things around then why the hell would I cheer for a late minute winner against a club like Newcastle that does nothing but prolong the managers time in charge?

Norman Brownbutter · Oct 21, 2021

I never want us to lose, but I wasnt upset at half time last night as I could see the silver lining.

Seeing that come back though, that was good stuff. That 2nd half was entertaining as feck. And I cant ask for anymore than that.

Wilt · Oct 21, 2021

RedBanker said:
Don't pile on him. Just because he has been able to come out with probably one of his darkest thoughts concerning our team. His approach is negative and he needs to believe in the greatness of Man United, rather than what happens to individuals managing or playing for the club. Advise him, don't gang up. Just my two cents.

Agree with this. Mob bullying is never the answer.

RUCK4444 · Oct 21, 2021

RedBanker said:
Don't pile on him. Just because he has been able to come out with probably one of his darkest thoughts concerning our team. His approach is negative and he needs to believe in the greatness of Man United, rather than what happens to individuals managing or playing for the club. Advise him, don't gang up. Just my two cents.

It's not even directed at him specifically, just the large section who want a manager sacked more than they want to see their club do well.

It's not conducive to my own opinion of the word 'support.' It's not 'top red' nonsense, just need to read the basic interpretation of the word supporter and you know it's not this.

It's not even like we've had a complete collapse, we've everything still to play for this season. If the expectations for the manager were now out of reach I could appreciate it more, but even then I wouldn't agree with the OP. I always back my team, seeing us lose and probably go out of the CL at the group stage this season would do nothing but harm for the club. I can't begin to understand why people visit a supporters forum and do the opposite of supporting during their time in said forum.

But freedom of speech, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and all that... wish I was entitled to not have my experience of the forum swamped in self loathing misery at the same time though.

Chesterlestreet · Oct 21, 2021

edBanker said:
Don't pile on him. Just because he has been able to come out with probably one of his darkest thoughts concerning our team. His approach is negative and he needs to believe in the greatness of Man United, rather than what happens to individuals managing or playing for the club. Advise him, don't gang up. Just my two cents.

My advice to him would be this:

If it's gotten to the point where you, as a genuine fan, actively want your own team to lose (for whatever reason - it doesn't matter if it's because you hate the manager, or because you have some kind of noble "bigger picture" idea in mind), just quit: step away from it, become a neutral, dedicate more of your time to other pursuits, whatever works for you. But stop defining yourself as a "Manchester United fan".

You'll feel much better.

Utd heap · Oct 21, 2021

Offside said:
Unfortunately this place is littered with glory hunting e-reds who have no idea what it’s all about.

In short, this.

Uniteddy · Oct 21, 2021

Offside said:
Unfortunately this place is littered with glory hunting e-reds who have no idea what it’s all about.

Sorry but the glory hunting e-reds are the reason we can afford to pay Ronaldo and assemble a billion pound squad.
Without the foreign fan base United couldn't compete.

This is the first time I want us to lose

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