PSG - 2021/22 | French Spurs?

Amadaeus

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The pressure is increasing on Pochettino, I always said I would only start judging him with this season, and granted it's not easy to build cohesion when the starting line up has to change all the time, we haven't had a consistent XI all season due to injuries or international games but there is zero sense of a general philosophy. It's just do the best you can on defense and pray for a miracle from the fantastic players on the front line and so far, it's all been Mbappe who's been carrying the load, he's been by far the best player out of the front three. Neymar's been detrimental, and PSG actually look like they're playing better without him on his current form but they are leaking on defense and you can't expect to go far depending on individual brilliance against the big teams, not a collection of individuals.
1 loss due to poor finishing. Last season he beat a lot of top teams in Europe and this season he already beaten one of the best team in Europe. I guess expectation for managers at psg is to have 100% Win record. If that is the case, Pochettino will happily leave and go to a club with more realistic expectations. But as spurs fans figured out that life is harder without Pochettino, I am quite sure psg fans will see the same. As you stated, Pochettino hasn't had a settled starting 11 yet this season for a prolonged time, yet he is doing exceptionally well so far. Today it looked like mbappe and Messi might be finally clicking. This will be good news for their attack. Kimbemepe needs to up his game in defense as he has been one of their weak link back there. Ramos was bought for a reason and when he is fit, I am sure that will increase competition for places in defense and improve their defensive solidarity.
 

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The pressure is increasing on Pochettino, I always said I would only start judging him with this season, and granted it's not easy to build cohesion when the starting line up has to change all the time, we haven't had a consistent XI all season due to injuries or international games but there is zero sense of a general philosophy. It's just do the best you can on defense and pray for a miracle from the fantastic players on the front line and so far, it's all been Mbappe who's been carrying the load, he's been by far the best player out of the front three. Neymar's been detrimental, and PSG actually look like they're playing better without him on his current form but they are leaking on defense and you can't expect to go far depending on individual brilliance against the big teams, not a collection of individuals.
Sounds like United then :D
 

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Sounds like United then :D
I was thinking the same. It's very similar. Don't think it's a coincidence that we both signed ageing superstars and are now struggling to find the right balance.
 

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I was thinking the same. It's very similar. Don't think it's a coincidence that we both signed ageing superstars and are now struggling to find the right balance.
I think their balance issues are a lot worse. I actually think unlike Ole, Poch is somewhat of a legit coach and could do a pretty good job for us. Ole at PSG would be an absolute disaster.
 

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I think their balance issues are a lot worse. I actually think unlike Ole, Poch is somewhat of a legit coach and could do a pretty good job for us. Ole at PSG would be an absolute disaster.
It depends on who we play with in the midfield. With Gueye/Herrera, we lose quality with the ball but they can compensate a bit. Our front 3 doesn't work as hard as what your attackers can do but we have more offensive power, meaning we can score with less chances. The core problem is the same though, a lack of quality midfielders with a decent workrate.
 

Oly Francis

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1 loss due to poor finishing. Last season he beat a lot of top teams in Europe and this season he already beaten one of the best team in Europe. I guess expectation for managers at psg is to have 100% Win record. If that is the case, Pochettino will happily leave and go to a club with more realistic expectations. But as spurs fans figured out that life is harder without Pochettino, I am quite sure psg fans will see the same. As you stated, Pochettino hasn't had a settled starting 11 yet this season for a prolonged time, yet he is doing exceptionally well so far. Today it looked like mbappe and Messi might be finally clicking. This will be good news for their attack. Kimbemepe needs to up his game in defense as he has been one of their weak link back there. Ramos was bought for a reason and when he is fit, I am sure that will increase competition for places in defense and improve their defensive solidarity.
Sometimes I'm wondering if you're just playing a role here or if you really believe what you're saying. I don't care about the final results, I don't base my analysis on whoscored stat. I've seen every game, we struggled against bottom tier Ligue 1 teams and it's not tolerable with such a roster.
 

Amadaeus

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Sometimes I'm wondering if you're just playing a role here or if you really believe what you're saying. I don't care about the final results, I don't base my analysis on whoscored stat. I've seen every game, we struggled against bottom tier Ligue 1 teams and it's not tolerable with such a roster.
if you are struggling against bottom team, you wouldn’t have a high expected goals and be dominate in possession for most of your games. The only one playing a role is you, as stats backs up my claim and if you see more than result, you would also realize that hakimi, herrera and Gueye has been your best players this season so far. I expect that to change and once Messi, Mbappe, and Neymar start to gel, then I see them being more influential.

I am sure, you and many poster on here are just waiting for one bad result to jump on Pochettino, but at the moment he has done well even without have a consistent 11 to select from and dealing with all the egos in the dressing room. I rather listen to top managers like Conte for example who also stated that, “To find the balance at PSG is not simple, but not only for Pochettino, it would be difficult for anyone.’ A lot of couch managers on here who thinks football is like playing fifa, but in reality it is far harder than that.
 

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1 loss due to poor finishing. Last season he beat a lot of top teams in Europe and this season he already beaten one of the best team in Europe. I guess expectation for managers at psg is to have 100% Win record. If that is the case, Pochettino will happily leave and go to a club with more realistic expectations. But as spurs fans figured out that life is harder without Pochettino, I am quite sure psg fans will see the same. As you stated, Pochettino hasn't had a settled starting 11 yet this season for a prolonged time, yet he is doing exceptionally well so far. Today it looked like mbappe and Messi might be finally clicking. This will be good news for their attack. Kimbemepe needs to up his game in defense as he has been one of their weak link back there. Ramos was bought for a reason and when he is fit, I am sure that will increase competition for places in defense and improve their defensive solidarity.
Not 100% win record but definitely much better control of games and football in general.
The bar is set very high and rightly so
 

Amadaeus

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Not 100% win record but definitely much better control of games and football in general.
The bar is set very high and rightly so
Pochettino is a tactical flexible manager that can change his gameplan based on what he sees is best for the game. His in game management is one of the best in football. As seen recently against RB Leipzig where in the hr mark, he change to a back five to counter leipzeig pressing and the constant turnover that their midfield kept doing. Which as a result allowed them to come from behind and win the game.

Pochettino controls most of the game and even this Leipzig game where criticism began, they had more possession and higher expected goal. The only problem was that Leipzig pressed well and psg made a lot of turnover in midfield, which Pochettino amended in the hr mark. Against Manchester city last season, Psg was one of, if not the only team that forced pep to play counter and psg controlled the game then and played amazing football that even a lot of United fans got very jealous. Pochettino saw that that approach wasn’t effective against city, so this time around, he learned and got the win. Their are many misconceptions about Pochettino towards those that doesn’t understand football, but in general he is doing a good job so far with what he has. I am waiting to see what happens when their front three starts clicking and they have a settled starting 11. Moreover, what type of influence Ramos have on this team.
 

kouroux

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Pochettino is a tactical flexible manager that can change his gameplan based on what he sees is best for the game. His in game management is one of the best in football. As seen recently against RB Leipzig where in the hr mark, he change to a back five to counter leipzeig pressing and the constant turnover that their midfield kept doing. Which as a result allowed them to come from behind and win the game.

Pochettino controls most of the game and even this Leipzig game where criticism began, they had more possession and higher expected goal. The only problem was that Leipzig pressed well and psg made a lot of turnover in midfield, which Pochettino amended in the hr mark. Against Manchester city last season, Psg was one of, if not the only team that forced pep to play counter and psg controlled the game then and played amazing football that even a lot of United fans got very jealous. Pochettino saw that that approach wasn’t effective against city, so this time around, he learned and got the win. Their are many misconceptions about Pochettino towards those that doesn’t understand football, but in general he is doing a good job so far with what he has. I am waiting to see what happens when their front three starts clicking and they have a settled starting 11. Moreover, what type of influence Ramos have on this team.
Bro we watch all his games, things aren't really like you describe. All the criticism from many posters and from the media haven't come out of nowhere.
It's a tough tough job being the PSG manager and so far I'd say he hasn't had a true imprint on his team.
They win games because they have a lot of talents but if you watch them play from start to finish, you can easily see many things that are wrong.
Even long time PSG fans and former players of the team say more or less the same on various radio and french outlets.
 
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Oly Francis

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Bro we watch all his games, things aren't really you describe. All the criticism from many posters and from the media haven't come out of nowhere.
It's a tough tough job being the PSG manager and so far I'd say he hasn't had a true imprint on his team.
They win games because they have a lot of talents but if you watch them play from start to finish, you can easily see many things that are wrong.
Even long time PSG fans and former players of the team say more or less the same on various radio and french outlets.
It's not only the media, after the game, Verratti said "we need to find a team philosophy as fast as possible", Mbappé said "so far we play poorly but we win", the team is aware that it looks bad.
 

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It's not only the media, after the game, Verratti said "we need to find a team philosophy as fast as possible", Mbappé said "so far we play poorly but we win", the team is aware that it looks bad.
Exactly. They know they can get much better than they have (not necessarily in terms of results but control of games)
 

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Wan Bissaka and Tuanzebe never played again on that level

 
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Amadaeus

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Bro we watch all his games, things aren't really like you describe. All the criticism from many posters and from the media haven't come out of nowhere.
It's a tough tough job being the PSG manager and so far I'd say he hasn't had a true imprint on his team.
They win games because they have a lot of talents but if you watch them play from start to finish, you can easily see many things that are wrong.
Even long time PSG fans and former players of the team say more or less the same on various radio and french outlets.
I am showing you what statistic says when you declare things like he doesn't control the game, but the statistic that determines that produces a different account. Then I explained that when he didn't control the game like he did against city, it was a tactical decision based on what he learned from their last encounter with them.

There is a lack of perspective on these criticism for the reason that Pochettino has not had a settled 11 for a prolonged period, it will take time for Messi(especially) and the few other players to adjust to psg, and there is an imbalance that is unaccounted for when working with superstar with lots of egos. As stated, the people who makes these critism knows very little and don't address these obvious problems towards imprinting a philosophy that will make psg the best team in the world. Another problem is that, I believe Pochettino has a preference to play with a target man. So if rumors are true and psg plan to sell mbappe for haland or Lewandowski, then his philosophy will be more effective with such change rather than playing without a natural number 9.
 

Oly Francis

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I am showing you what statistic says when you declare things like he doesn't control the game, but the statistic that determines that produces a different account. Then I explained that when he didn't control the game like he did against city, it was a tactical decision based on what he learned from their last encounter with them.
You're delusional. PSG didn't control the game agains City because we couldn't, the lack of quality in the midfield combined with the lack of tactictal philosophy prevented us from doing so.

And i'm not even talking about how ridiculous his speech about bringing up young players was when he arrived, he never calls them and when he does, they stay on the bench.

He's been our coach for 10+months now and we don't see ANY improvement in the way the team plays, any reasonable critic can see it.
 

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I am showing you what statistic says when you declare things like he doesn't control the game, but the statistic that determines that produces a different account. Then I explained that when he didn't control the game like he did against city, it was a tactical decision based on what he learned from their last encounter with them.

There is a lack of perspective on these criticism for the reason that Pochettino has not had a settled 11 for a prolonged period, it will take time for Messi(especially) and the few other players to adjust to psg, and there is an imbalance that is unaccounted for when working with superstar with lots of egos. As stated, the people who makes these critism knows very little and don't address these obvious problems towards imprinting a philosophy that will make psg the best team in the world. Another problem is that, I believe Pochettino has a preference to play with a target man. So if rumors are true and psg plan to sell mbappe for haland or Lewandowski, then his philosophy will be more effective with such change rather than playing without a natural number 9.
I don't need stats when I have watched most of their games. Their players aren't happy with their performances and their manager yet.
Who are we to say otherwise ?
 

Amadaeus

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You're delusional. PSG didn't control the game agains City because we couldn't, the lack of quality in the midfield combined with the lack of tactictal philosophy prevented us from doing so.

And i'm not even talking about how ridiculous his speech about bringing up young players was when he arrived, he never calls them and when he does, they stay on the bench.

He's been our coach for 10+months now and we don't see ANY improvement in the way the team plays, any reasonable critic can see it.
You are the one delusional, because Pochettino has controlled the game against Manchester city last year when they were in better form. They had a worse squad, yet they forced city to play counter attack then. If Pochettino wanted,, he could set his team the same way and press high and focus on possession as he did then.. That is fine, if you don't see any improvement. You opinion doesn't mean anything to people who actually knows something about football. Psg never beaten Manchester city until recently and last season you were in a worse position under tuchel at this time. So once again, the one delusional is you by saying you don't see any improvement.

I don't need stats when I have watched most of their games. Their players aren't happy with their performances and their manager yet.

Who are we to say otherwise ?
Trust me, I don't often use stats either as I was the main one telling fans on here that the result under Ole doesn't correspond to our performance. I watch their games and I know well enough that there are underlying issue aforementioned can be amended with a consistent team selection and their attack being more clinical and more selfless. Don't worry, like the Ole fans on here realized I was right, you guys will see that I will be right again. I know what I see, and this time rather than be humble about it and I will remember to bring this up again later
 

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You are the one delusional, because Pochettino has controlled the game against Manchester city last year when they were in better form. They had a worse squad, yet they forced city to play counter attack then. If Pochettino wanted,, he could set his team the same way and press high and focus on possession as he did then.. That is fine, if you don't see any improvement. You opinion doesn't mean anything to people who actually knows something about football. Psg never beaten Manchester city until recently and last season you were in a worse position under tuchel at this time. So once again, the one delusional is you by saying you don't see any improvement.



Trust me, I don't often use stats either as I was the main one telling fans on here that the result under Ole doesn't correspond to our performance. I watch their games and I know well enough that there are underlying issue aforementioned can be amended with a consistent team selection and their attack being more clinical and more selfless. Don't worry, like the Ole fans on here realized I was right, you guys will see that I will be right again. I know what I see, and this time rather than be humble about it and I will remember to bring this up again later
It’s not really worth discussing with you because you’re so delusional that it makes any debate completely redundant. We controlled one of four halves against City last year, but in your eyes we controlled City. Just that comment alone makes anything else worthless to bring up because we’re living in two different realities.
 

Amadaeus

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It’s not really worth discussing with you because you’re so delusional that it makes any debate completely redundant. We controlled one of four halves against City last year, but in your eyes we controlled City. Just that comment alone makes anything else worthless to bring up because we’re living in two different realities.
That is fine, you and the others remind me of the spurs fans on here who taught Pochettino was the issue, then they realized they were wrong. Let see what happens in the future. I have been here many times before so I know the answer to this already.

Frustrating that I have to go through this over and over again
 

Acrobat7

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Amadeus is Glastonspurs alt account, correct?
 

Lay

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It’s actually a bit sad that this sort of hero worship goes on over managers.
 

Pep's Suit

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They don't seem like a proper club, actually they're much closer to something like Harlem Globetrotters.
 

FrankDrebin

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I bet he's happy he no longer has to deal with Neymar buggering off during his sisters birthday.
 

stefan92

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That's what you get for being Manager of PSG, surely he'd have known that when signing for them no?
He won titles there and was clearly liked by the players, even the top stars. I don't think this quote is meant as a dig or complain or something like that, just as a factual comparison.
 

Maluco

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Doesn't make it any less funny.

His appearance record for PSG is bit of a joke.
It defines his career, that move. Instead of going to a new team or staying at a team where he would be constantly challenged to stay at the highest level, he chose to go and party in a league where he only needs to play half the games in a season and everyone is happy.

A stark contrast to the very, very top players of his era who did everything they could to be on the pitch scoring goals and defining games in big moments.

He will be a forgotten man in 20 years despite his excellent international record. As will the likes of Veratti and Marquinhos.

It’s a terrible move for any player serious about their legacy in the game. But it’s exactly what party boy Neymar wanted.
 

Oly Francis

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It defines his career, that move. Instead of going to a new team or staying at a team where he would be constantly challenged to stay at the highest level, he chose to go and party in a league where he only needs to play half the games in a season and everyone is happy.

A stark contrast to the very, very top players of his era who did everything they could to be on the pitch scoring goals and defining games in big moments.

He will be a forgotten man in 20 years despite his excellent international record. As will the likes of Veratti and Marquinhos.

It’s a terrible move for any player serious about their legacy in the game. But it’s exactly what party boy Neymar wanted.
That's an extremely simplistic view. What happened with Kaka at Real Madrid? With Ronaldinho at Barcelona and Milan? They faded the same way around 30 even being in very competitive teams/leagues. I'm not even talking about Ronaldo Nazario.

What you say about him not being as serious and dedicated as Ronaldo/Messi is obviously true, but it's not about what team he joined, it's about his priorities in life and how he handles 15+ years of insane pressure. And the answer is "not that well".
 

Harry190

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That's an extremely simplistic view. What happened with Kaka at Real Madrid? With Ronaldinho at Barcelona and Milan? They faded the same way around 30 even being in very competitive teams/leagues. I'm not even talking about Ronaldo Nazario.

What you say about him not being as serious and dedicated as Ronaldo/Messi is obviously true, but it's not about what team he joined, it's about his priorities in life and how he handles 15+ years of insane pressure. And the answer is "not that well".
To be fair, Kaka barely had a functional knee when he signed for Madrid.
 

Maluco

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That's an extremely simplistic view. What happened with Kaka at Real Madrid? With Ronaldinho at Barcelona and Milan? They faded the same way around 30 even being in very competitive teams/leagues. I'm not even talking about Ronaldo Nazario.

What you say about him not being as serious and dedicated as Ronaldo/Messi is obviously true, but it's not about what team he joined, it's about his priorities in life and how he handles 15+ years of insane pressure. And the answer is "not that well".
They did fade away, yes, but Kaka was because his body broke down. It wasn’t because he wasn’t focused on the game.

Ronaldinho’s peak was way higher than Neymars and he won everything there was to win as THE star of a massive club and country. His career tailed off but Neymar went to PSG in his prime and hasn’t even applied himself. Look at Messi and Ronaldo and their commitment at their respective ages. They would have never missed a game they could have played in.

I think it’s got to the point where the causal fan doesn’t even realize just how gifted Neymar is. He has flatlined what should have been a glorious legacy and career.

I don’t have anything against PSG supporters. You can’t help the way your team is run and the inequality in the league, but it’s not somewhere you go in your prime if you are serious about your legacy and career.

He went there because of the money and the guarantees of a more flexible and easy lifestyle.

Tuchel has highlighted the reason why the top prizes will always be difficult for a team like PSG. Players like Neymar don’t set an example, they ruin the culture of a club.
 

Oly Francis

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They did fade away, yes, but Kaka was because his body broke down. It wasn’t because he wasn’t focused on the game.
Neymar was absolutely brilliant for PSG when he arrived up until his ankle broke. He got surgery, tried to come back for the world cup, didn't really work, started to get better again and then he broke his ankle for the 2nd time, that's when things started to go downhill.

Ronaldinho’s peak was way higher than Neymars and he won everything there was to win as THE star of a massive club and country. His career tailed off but Neymar went to PSG in his prime and hasn’t even applied himself. Look at Messi and Ronaldo and their commitment at their respective ages. They would have never missed a game they could have played in.
Not really no, he won the WC in 2002 when the big star was obviously Ronaldo. He played in a insanely strong national team at that time compared to Neymar's. He was the star in 2006 and was blamed for his bad performance when Brazil got eliminated by France. He only was the star for Barcelona for 1 year and a half (when he was brilliant).

I think it’s got to the point where the causal fan doesn’t even realize just how gifted Neymar is. He has flatlined what should have been a glorious legacy and career.
Flatlined is a big word, he was the best player for PSG when we beat Bayern last season in the CL quart finals. He also got the best player title along with Messi this summer during COPA.

I don’t have anything against PSG supporters. You can’t help the way your team is run and the inequality in the league, but it’s not somewhere you go in your prime if you are serious about your legacy and career.
Ligue 1 isn't the best league in the world, i'll give you that.

He went there because of the money and the guarantees of a more flexible and easy lifestyle.
He could have had this easy lifestyle everywhere. Actually, the birthday/carnival stories come from his time at Barcelona, he didn't do it at PSG. Look at Dembele showing up late half the time at practice with Barcelona, Bale with his golf, fatty Hazard or Asensio partying at Real Madrid, expensive players can do pretty much whatever they want in almost any club.
 

Maluco

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Neymar was absolutely brilliant for PSG when he arrived up until his ankle broke. He got surgery, tried to come back for the world cup, didn't really work, started to get better again and then he broke his ankle for the 2nd time, that's when things started to go downhill.



Not really no, he won the WC in 2002 when the big star was obviously Ronaldo. He played in a insanely strong national team at that time compared to Neymar's. He was the star in 2006 and was blamed for his bad performance when Brazil got eliminated by France. He only was the star for Barcelona for 1 year and a half (when he was brilliant).



Flatlined is a big word, he was the best player for PSG when we beat Bayern last season in the CL quart finals. He also got the best player title along with Messi this summer during COPA.



Ligue 1 isn't the best league in the world, i'll give you that.



He could have had this easy lifestyle everywhere. Actually, the birthday/carnival stories come from his time at Barcelona, he didn't do it at PSG. Look at Dembele showing up late half the time at practice with Barcelona, Bale with his golf, fatty Hazard or Asensio partying at Real Madrid, expensive players can do pretty much whatever they want in almost any club.
That’s the point though. Neymar is brilliant, but because of decisions he has made and his lack of commitment, he won’t be the legend that he should have been.

I get your points about Ronaldinho, but his heights were far, far higher. He was alone as the very best in the world at one point. It’s not Neymars fault that he isn’t at that level, but it’s certainly his fault that he hasn’t made a better go of it.

His commitment at Barcelona was an issue too, but he wasn’t a team leader there and the result was a highly successful treble winning side.

He just isn’t playing in enough high profile games for PSG to be remembered for the player he is. Poor choices and a lack of commitment have meant he has underachieved in my eyes.

It might have been at any club, you’re right, but Ligue 1 allows players like him to be at second gear. I just think, for a player with aspirations like Neymar, it was a poor career move.

Perfect for someone like Messi at 34, but poor for a Neymar at 27.
 

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That’s the point though. Neymar is brilliant, but because of decisions he has made and his lack of commitment, he won’t be the legend that he should have been.

I get your points about Ronaldinho, but his heights were far, far higher. He was alone as the very best in the world at one point. It’s not Neymars fault that he isn’t at that level, but it’s certainly his fault that he hasn’t made a better go of it.

His commitment at Barcelona was an issue too, but he wasn’t a team leader there and the result was a highly successful treble winning side.

He just isn’t playing in enough high profile games for PSG to be remembered for the player he is. Poor choices and a lack of commitment have meant he has underachieved in my eyes.

It might have been at any club, you’re right, but Ligue 1 allows players like him to be at second gear. I just think, for a player with aspirations like Neymar, it was a poor career move.

Perfect for someone like Messi at 34, but poor for a Neymar at 27.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. ONE great season for Barcelona without Messi would have changed a lot of things but he didn't have it (even if he was really good in the 2015 CL title). 2018 was supposed to be his WC but he broke his ankle before that. In the 2014 WC, a player broke one of his vertebrae and he had to leave the team. Lack of commitment + bad luck.
 

Pep's Suit

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So did Messi's move actually had any impact on Ligue 1 viewing numbers? I don't mean his first game or 2-3 but people who will actually continue watching. This is what I found about 2019/20 numbers: "The average audience for Ligue 1 matches broadcast on Canal +, which fell to 851,000 viewers last season, was halved compared to the 2007/2008 season.".
 

MalaysianRed7

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A team like theirs should be blowing the likes of Brugge, Rennes, Metz and Angers away even if all 11 players aren’t at their best. Realistically, it’s not outlandish to say that a team with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi up front should be winning most Ligue 1 games with 10 men!

Not working out like that for them this season though. It can only boil down to Pochettino, as even though they’ll win the league by about 20 points, they won’t get anywhere in the CL in their current trajectory. Just so unbalanced, and Pochettino hasn’t fixed the issue since somehow losing the title to an average Lille side who are getting found out badly this season without Galtier. He still thinks playing Di Maria with the front 3 can work, which is immense levels of stubbornness.
 

Oly Francis

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A team like theirs should be blowing the likes of Brugge, Rennes, Metz and Angers away even if all 11 players aren’t at their best. Realistically, it’s not outlandish to say that a team with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi up front should be winning most Ligue 1 games with 10 men!

Not working out like that for them this season though. It can only boil down to Pochettino, as even though they’ll win the league by about 20 points, they won’t get anywhere in the CL in their current trajectory. Just so unbalanced, and Pochettino hasn’t fixed the issue since somehow losing the title to an average Lille side who are getting found out badly this season without Galtier. He still thinks playing Di Maria with the front 3 can work, which is immense levels of stubbornness.
That's a pretty good analysis. Bad coaching + poor midfield + low workrate = struggling PSG. Our only chance against strong team in the CL at the moment is relying on counter attacks. That's pretty sad when you have players like Neymar, Mbappé, Messi or Verratti.