I meant in the way that both play rather dull style of football. Conte would be better than Mourinho imo, but that's not a reason to hire him either.
Would you take Conte at United?
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I like the idea of a more progressive manager but we haven’t been building towards that, just a tougher job for whoever joins.
This rebuild and reboot was a joke and consequently we need someone who can win now and make best of what’s here. Conte probably fits that better than anyone, maybe he will only last 2-3 years but Ole was our long term option and look how that’s gone. Maybe he will lose the dressing room but so has Ole, but Conte is a huge upgrade and increases our chances of actually winning something.
This rebuild and reboot was a joke and consequently we need someone who can win now and make best of what’s here. Conte probably fits that better than anyone, maybe he will only last 2-3 years but Ole was our long term option and look how that’s gone. Maybe he will lose the dressing room but so has Ole, but Conte is a huge upgrade and increases our chances of actually winning something.
He's a defensive football manager, so I wouldn't want him long term. But, we are such a mess defensively at the moment it might be a good solution for a season or two.
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I probably need to revisit the Chelsea system he deployed in this case, I'm just thinking of a 5 at the back system and wondering how it works, probably because there was an assumption of 2 up top.
I'm not a fan of his style of play, but right now with our squad, we can't play a a high press or possession based game.To go for a manager who wants to make us play that way would take a few years and probably a complete new mid. I think what we have is a quick front line. We seriously need to cut back on playing out from the back, we don't have the players, we need get the ball up the pitch much quicker. We need to be set up much more rigid so that teams can't cut through us at will. Conte is probably that man.He could come in, get us back to being competitive and maybe win a cup. His normal managerial reign is usually only 2-3 years anyway.
Looks like it's going to be him, no problems with him at all. Winner on his CV
Yeah but who did they beat in the final?
Oh....
At Chelsea it was Hazard and Pedro, they both had full license to come inside playing as inside forwards because the wing-backs provided the width and support tracking back. Rashford,Sancho,Greenwood, & Martial are perfect for those roles.
There's a lot of misconception and misunderstanding in this thread about Conte and his style of play.
1. He's defensive
He plays a system with 3 defenders for stability but his overall style of play is not defensive. He scored 89 league goals last season with Inter and scored 85 with Chelsea when they won the league. The most we managed post Fergie is 73 last season with Ole. If people call Conte football dull we've have very dull managers since Fergie.
2. He doesn't utilise wingers/wide forwards
This is another misconception on Conte's system as he switches from a 3-4-3 to a 3-5-2 depending on opposition. For Example at Chelsea he played a 3-4-3 with Hazard and Pedro as wide forwards, he also constantly switched between the two at Inter last season.
I personally think he's the perfect man for the job and in many ways our squad is tailor made for Conte. He would give us defensive stability through the 3 CB's which would also allow our fullbacks to push forward and one of his 3 midfielders, would probably be Pogba as he's already done it at a Conte team when they were together at Juve. He has options with our attacking talent so could go for a 2 man midfield and 3 up top or like he did at Inter a 3 man midfield with 2 up top. So for his 3-4-3 it would be something like:
De Gea
Maguire Lindelof Varane
AWB Pogba Fred/Matic Shaw
Greenwood Ronaldo Sancho/Rashford
Playing a 3 man defence like so reduces the pressure on our midfield 2 as we have 3 defenders and our wingbacks as cover, so it's very different from the midfield 2 Ole plays where Bruno is more of a second striker, (basically replacing Lindelof with Bruno).
Or for his 3-5-2 He could go:
De Gea
Maguire Lindelof Varane
AWB Pogba Matic/Mctominay Fred Shaw
Bruno/Sancho/Rashford Ronaldo
This formation is what he did with Inter against the big teams, it's how he beat Juve last season, Pogba in the Barella role and any one of Sancho/Bruno/Rashford in the Martinez role. I think he'll probably lean with Sancho as his control in tight spaces, dribbling ability and quick link up play will compliment Ronaldo well in quick, direct counter attacking situations.
It's all about balance and stability, and all of the managers being linked with us imo would drop one of our attacking players for a more defensive minded player, so it wouldn't just be Conte. Bruno is too far isolated from the midfield in our current setup, it's as Scholes and Keane said recently, our midfield is too vulnerable and are constantly outnumbered fighting a losing battle.
Ironically we're in a very similar situation to Chelsea as they had Lampard playing a 4-3-3 sometimes 4-2-3-1 then Tuchel came in and made it a 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 and they automatically looked a lot better and solid. Everyone also thought that he'd play a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 but he settled on a 3-4-3 straight away.
Those people that compare him to Mourinho know nothing and the only way I can see this not happening is the board being afraid to give him the job as he would call out un professionalism as he doesn't accept mediocrity. Conte wants work ethic and professionalism from all players and will never throw a player under the bus that is doing his utmost, so if he does clash with a player he deserves to be sold anyway.
United fans are some of the most confusing fans constantly berating Ole for being a yes man, but, don't want the best manager available right now because he might clash with the board. weird.
1. He's defensive
He plays a system with 3 defenders for stability but his overall style of play is not defensive. He scored 89 league goals last season with Inter and scored 85 with Chelsea when they won the league. The most we managed post Fergie is 73 last season with Ole. If people call Conte football dull we've have very dull managers since Fergie.
2. He doesn't utilise wingers/wide forwards
This is another misconception on Conte's system as he switches from a 3-4-3 to a 3-5-2 depending on opposition. For Example at Chelsea he played a 3-4-3 with Hazard and Pedro as wide forwards, he also constantly switched between the two at Inter last season.
I personally think he's the perfect man for the job and in many ways our squad is tailor made for Conte. He would give us defensive stability through the 3 CB's which would also allow our fullbacks to push forward and one of his 3 midfielders, would probably be Pogba as he's already done it at a Conte team when they were together at Juve. He has options with our attacking talent so could go for a 2 man midfield and 3 up top or like he did at Inter a 3 man midfield with 2 up top. So for his 3-4-3 it would be something like:
De Gea
Maguire Lindelof Varane
AWB Pogba Fred/Matic Shaw
Greenwood Ronaldo Sancho/Rashford
Playing a 3 man defence like so reduces the pressure on our midfield 2 as we have 3 defenders and our wingbacks as cover, so it's very different from the midfield 2 Ole plays where Bruno is more of a second striker, (basically replacing Lindelof with Bruno).
Or for his 3-5-2 He could go:
De Gea
Maguire Lindelof Varane
AWB Pogba Matic/Mctominay Fred Shaw
Bruno/Sancho/Rashford Ronaldo
This formation is what he did with Inter against the big teams, it's how he beat Juve last season, Pogba in the Barella role and any one of Sancho/Bruno/Rashford in the Martinez role. I think he'll probably lean with Sancho as his control in tight spaces, dribbling ability and quick link up play will compliment Ronaldo well in quick, direct counter attacking situations.
It's all about balance and stability, and all of the managers being linked with us imo would drop one of our attacking players for a more defensive minded player, so it wouldn't just be Conte. Bruno is too far isolated from the midfield in our current setup, it's as Scholes and Keane said recently, our midfield is too vulnerable and are constantly outnumbered fighting a losing battle.
Ironically we're in a very similar situation to Chelsea as they had Lampard playing a 4-3-3 sometimes 4-2-3-1 then Tuchel came in and made it a 3-4-3 / 3-5-2 and they automatically looked a lot better and solid. Everyone also thought that he'd play a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 but he settled on a 3-4-3 straight away.
Those people that compare him to Mourinho know nothing and the only way I can see this not happening is the board being afraid to give him the job as he would call out un professionalism as he doesn't accept mediocrity. Conte wants work ethic and professionalism from all players and will never throw a player under the bus that is doing his utmost, so if he does clash with a player he deserves to be sold anyway.
United fans are some of the most confusing fans constantly berating Ole for being a yes man, but, don't want the best manager available right now because he might clash with the board. weird.
He doesn’t care who gets offended. Buffon asked him about a pay rise and he pretty much called him stupid and told him to get out. I don’t remember the exact phrasing. He also disrupted Chelsea with his fight with costa.
The mans insane but the other side of that coin is genius.
If memory serves me right, he adopted a back 4 at first with Chelsea. They were thrashed by Arsenal early in the season and he pivoted to his natural system. They won the league.
I don't agree with the dull style but then again I don't find Simeone's approach dull. The issue with Mourinho was that it was negative in the sense that he would set his team in a way that goes against its nature in order to bother the opposition but more often than not Mourinho's team are no more dull than most of the hyped up managers. The other issue for Mourinho is that he progressively failed to implement efficient tactical approaches.
He basically played 541/343 at Chelsea, at Inter and Juve it was 532/352.
Tbh I don't think he'd be able to play a back 5 here until he managed to offload a couple attacking players and signed a couple specialist wing backs. I expect he would play a back 4 at the start.
would assume conte would come in knowing what he wanted to do with the talent at his disposal and would have a plan.
I believe the 2 up top were used exclusively at Inter because Lukaku and Martinez are both at their best with another striker.
The squad as it is with so many players 27/8 upwards it probably does have to be a hired gun before the next rebuild. I think it'd be a shame though if he'd marginalise or discard what is the one impressive part of Utds squad, the young attacking talent Sancho Greenwood Rashford (and Amad) in favour of the known quantities Ronaldo and Cavani etc
Oh oh, line ups! I like these. My turn:
Rashford Bruno Greenwood
Shaw Fred Brozovic Mazraoui
Maguire Lindelof Varane (wouldn't mind picking up Bazoer on a free as the libero)
De Gea
Rashford Bruno Greenwood
Shaw Fred Brozovic Mazraoui
Maguire Lindelof Varane (wouldn't mind picking up Bazoer on a free as the libero)
De Gea
Don't want a defensive manager. I know we're a shambles there but surely attacking and defending don't have to cancel each other.
We just jump between 'styles' all the time. Let’s say he does improve our defence but we're dull as feck and win nothing, what then? Search for an attacking psycho?
Just get a proper one who can do it well on both ends, whoever that may be.
We just jump between 'styles' all the time. Let’s say he does improve our defence but we're dull as feck and win nothing, what then? Search for an attacking psycho?
Just get a proper one who can do it well on both ends, whoever that may be.
Enjoyed reading that post @the_cliff
The best thing for me about Conte potentially coming in is that Lindelof will go straight back into the starting lineup
The best thing for me about Conte potentially coming in is that Lindelof will go straight back into the starting lineup
Can we not go 3 4 3 without wingback, similar to the old ajax team?
Varane maguire Shaw
Matic
Feed pogba
Bruno
Sancho Ronaldo rash
Is that not an option?
Varane maguire Shaw
Matic
Feed pogba
Bruno
Sancho Ronaldo rash
Is that not an option?
Conte in now and get preparations underway to sign Ten Hag for a long term manager. Conte will whip these guys into shape.
A defensive manager doesn't score 2.06 goals per game (At Chelsea)
As pointed out by a bunch of other posters, we already play defensive football, we are just bad at it. We're probably closer personnel wise to playing the way Conte plays than expansive football. Our squad is relatively old, we have to go for it the next few years. If it fails, we fire Conte (assuming it's him) and then reassess
That’s not a huge average by any stretch considering they won the league.
How is Conte a defensive manager when Inter scored the second most goals last season behind Bayern? Jesus, it seems some people here have zero idea who Conte is and haven't watched anything from his teams, relying on twitter gossip and what not to base their opinion on him.
I agree, I do find the idea of a Ten Hag/Marco Rose type manager. However with the signing of Ronaldo I do think that basically put an end to any progressive pressing style of play. Also, Ten Hag would need 2-3 years to implement his style of play and due to the consensus and of most United fans and the average age of our squad as you mentioned, we really need to be challenging for major honours in the immediate future, which is why I'm leaning towards Conte.
big fat NO on conte. Zidane now or wait and line up ten hag in the summer
Perfect option would be to hire him for the rest of the year and then secure Ten Hag next season.
Would the board be willing to give a short term managerial contract is another question in itself.
Would the board be willing to give a short term managerial contract is another question in itself.
It's another myth that just gets repeated mindlessly. His Chelsea was 2-3-5 in attack.
It is. Jose never scored that amount of goals in his Chelsea stints (both). It's a lazy thing to say that he is defensive or similar to Jose. He may not be a popular choice but let's not undermine him as some kind of washed out material.
No thanks to Conte. The last thing we need is a strop-throwing dinosaur in the mould of Mourinho and LvG.
His Inter side scored 89 goals in the League last year, his Juve side got 80 the last time he won it there. We scored 73 last year and 66 before that.
It's not a huge average if you have some of the best goalscorers in the world, otherwise when you have the likes of Hazard, Diego Costa and Pedro as your firepower then it's a pretty big average, that is essentially manufactured by tactics more than goalscoring talent.
Our 99 and 07 sides were atracking yet the numbers in isolation weren't great.
I'm saying what I think having watched his Chelsea side and been bored as hell.
People said the same about Mourinho, 'look at his numbers at Madrid' eventhough everybody knew deep down he's a dementor.
On Conte: We've got to manage to our own strengths: If decisions were made by ruthless owners, ala Abramovitch, then you could hire a guy like Conte and know that once his time is up, in 2 years for example, then you will get rid. But at United, you just know that we will get rid too late, which means you can't risk a manager whose downside is temperament. Otherwise, by the time he leaves, we'd be in another post-Mourinho period. He's a short-term fix for a long-term problem.
We aren't even a defensive side. We’re just a bunch of individuals who are told to enjoy themselves by 3 clowns before games.
Yes but Ole has set us up defensively for a pretty big portion of his time here. So it's not new to the players, that's my point.
Don't rate him that high tbh.
He is good but about time we went for a more progressive coach.
He is good but about time we went for a more progressive coach.
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