SAF had to rebuild the club from top to bottom. He also had a big drink culture to deal with and had to make some hard decisions about getting rid of popular players. He was ruthless.
Neville - ‘’no style of play’’
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
sparx99
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tbf when they press in training Maguire and McTominay and AWB probably give it away to the pressing group.Looks like it, yeh. The way players half heartedly pressing it seems they never drill this in training, ever. May be Ole told them just before the match, "go on lads, press them"
sparx99
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I don’t think they’ll sack him today or tomorrow even though they should. But to suggest he gets to the end of the season when we have Spurs, City and Chelsea coming up seems bold. We could be 20pts off the title rivals having lost 5 league games in a row. CL qualification is far from assured either.I agree with you, but I don't know with this club. Gary said he thinks Ole will get until the the end of the season. It wouldn't even shock me if he did. If it were my decision, he would be getting sacked tomorrow morning. If he isn't getting sacked, the club needs to bring in some new people to help out.
He could maybe survive towards the end of November but I’d be very surprised if he makes it through until December. Lose to Spurs next week and it will untenable.
CloneMC16
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I think it's already untenable. I don't see how in any reality that he can carry on after that defeat. It's not even just this performance alone. Anybody that watches our matches knew this was coming. We've been so open all season and haven't faced a good enough team to really punish us. We finally did this afternoon.I don’t think they’ll sack him today or tomorrow even though they should. But to suggest he gets to the end of the season when we have Spurs, City and Chelsea coming up seems bold. We could be 20pts off the title rivals having lost 5 league games in a row. CL qualification is far from assured either.
He could maybe survive towards the end of November but I’d be very surprised if he makes it through until December. Lose to Spurs next week and it will untenable.
The end of the season shout is pretty bold, though. Our next two months are brutal. If he's somehow still manager in the new year, I don't even know what the goals are for this club any more.
sparx99
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Oh I agree it should be untenable. It doesn’t help Ole that we aren’t playing midweek. If it was a 2 day turnaround to the next game then he maybe bounces into that game and gets a positive result.I think it's already untenable. I don't see how in any reality that he can carry on after that defeat. It's not even just this performance alone. Anybody that watches our matches knew this was coming. We've been so open all season and haven't faced a good enough team to really punish us. We finally did this afternoon.
The end of the season shout is pretty bold, though. Our next two months are brutal. If he's somehow still manager in the new year, I don't even know what the goals are for this club any more.
But with a week of negative headlines and a bit of time the board have a chance to act.
Brophs
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Increasingly, Neville looks somewhat compromised and self-interested in the positions he takes. He talks about sacking managers being wrong then sacks them at his own club at the first sign of trouble. He’s critical of the government for their handling of the pandemic but often chooses to focus largely on their handling of the hospitality sector, because that’s where he’s haemorrhaging money. He takes on the Super League, which goes against his paymaster’s interests but doesn’t go in nearly as hard on the Newcastle takeover, instead shrouding it in some mealy-mouthed sop about bringing them to the table to show them how to change. He says United have no style of play yet refuses to focus on the person who is both a friend and former team mate and who is ultimately responsible for the team’s performance.
Despite how that may read, I’m not even really criticising him massively. He’s obviously going to talk about things that bother him personally. It just shows how hard it is to occupy the position he does and not tread into these weirdly conflicted areas and then try to offer coherent analysis, often in a professional context.
Despite how that may read, I’m not even really criticising him massively. He’s obviously going to talk about things that bother him personally. It just shows how hard it is to occupy the position he does and not tread into these weirdly conflicted areas and then try to offer coherent analysis, often in a professional context.
Bobski
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Can a new manager get those group of attacking players to make the sacrifices required or will he require another clear out to get the type of players needed to win?
Liverpool had Jota and Firmino in their front 3, Utd have better individual talent but that is worthless without the willingness to sacrifice for the good of the team. People get so infatuated with stats they forget the importance of selflessness. We have too many attacking players, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo who are trying to steal a few yards into an attacking position, letting runners go, worrying about their individual game, for years we had the likes of Hughes, Ole, Cole, Giggs, Rooney, who put the team before themselves, did the thankless grunt work that makes the difference and gets ignored years later when people focus on stats.
Greenwood only plays with intensity going forward
Rashford is our counter attack and Ole does not want him in the full back position
Sancho is weak defensively
Ronaldo saves his energy for attacking
Martial is lazy
Bruno presses in a chaotic manner and has no positional discipline
Pogba is Pogba
Cavani and Lingard are the only 2 who really make a big effort in the press, Dan James as well before he was sold, that was the only reason he lasted as long as he did.
Liverpool had Jota and Firmino in their front 3, Utd have better individual talent but that is worthless without the willingness to sacrifice for the good of the team. People get so infatuated with stats they forget the importance of selflessness. We have too many attacking players, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo who are trying to steal a few yards into an attacking position, letting runners go, worrying about their individual game, for years we had the likes of Hughes, Ole, Cole, Giggs, Rooney, who put the team before themselves, did the thankless grunt work that makes the difference and gets ignored years later when people focus on stats.
Greenwood only plays with intensity going forward
Rashford is our counter attack and Ole does not want him in the full back position
Sancho is weak defensively
Ronaldo saves his energy for attacking
Martial is lazy
Bruno presses in a chaotic manner and has no positional discipline
Pogba is Pogba
Cavani and Lingard are the only 2 who really make a big effort in the press, Dan James as well before he was sold, that was the only reason he lasted as long as he did.
Regulus Arcturus Black
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He has Cavani, and he has DvB in his squad, both hard workers, as is Rashford.Can a new manager get those group of attacking players to make the sacrifices required or will he require another clear out to get the type of players needed to win?
Liverpool had Jota and Firmino in their front 3, Utd have better individual talent but that is worthless without the willingness to sacrifice for the good of the team. People get so infatuated with stats they forget the importance of selflessness. We have too many attacking players, Greenwood, Sancho, Rashford, Pogba, Bruno and Ronaldo who are trying to steal a few yards into an attacking position, letting runners go, worrying about their individual game, for years we had the likes of Hughes, Ole, Cole, Giggs, Rooney, who put the team before themselves, did the thankless grunt work that makes the difference and gets ignored years later when people focus on stats.
Greenwood only plays with intensity going forward
Rashford is our counter attack and Ole does not want him in the full back position
Sancho is weak defensively
Ronaldo saves his energy for attacking
Martial is lazy
Bruno presses in a chaotic manner and has no positional discipline
Pogba is Pogba
Cavani and Lingard are the only 2 who really make a big effort in the press, Dan James as well before he was sold, that was the only reason he lasted as long as he did.
Bruno works his bollocks off but like Pogba, our lack of any system tends to have them looking positionless. So can a new manager fix that? Of course he fecking can.
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo
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Rashford stood and watched Shaw get fecked and did nothing about it. When your wingers don't support the full back even after witnessing the full back get his arse slapped, then what can you say?
Bastian
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But do you really occupy a position without walking the walk? And I don't mean in the cancel-culture problem-of-the-so-called-left where the slightest discrepancy or mistake means you're out. Clearly this thing with not calling for managers to be sacked was something he did not personally believe in, though he now concedes it was a mistake (I think he does that less so for having sacked a manager, and much more so due to optics and to benefit him in the debate he lost to Souness and Carragher).Increasingly, Neville looks somewhat compromised and self-interested in the positions he takes. He talks about sacking managers being wrong then sacks them at his own club at the first sign of trouble. He’s critical of the government for their handling of the pandemic but often chooses to focus largely on their handling of the hospitality sector, because that’s where he’s haemorrhaging money. He takes on the Super League, which goes against his paymaster’s interests but doesn’t go in nearly as hard on the Newcastle takeover, instead shrouding it in some mealy-mouthed sop about bringing them to the table to show them how to change. He says United have no style of play yet refuses to focus on the person who is both a friend and former team mate and who is ultimately responsible for the team’s performance.
Despite how that may read, I’m not even really criticising him massively. He’s obviously going to talk about things that bother him personally. It just shows how hard it is to occupy the position he does and not tread into these weirdly conflicted areas and then try to offer coherent analysis, often in a professional context.
RazorOz
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Neville doesn't just do it for Man Utd managers or his mates though. He always defends the manager should stay at every club. He's often great at demonstrating exactly why a manager should go by highlighting the problems tactically etc., but never puts it down to the manager. I do think he probably lives in nostalgia a bit, because he will often talk about you need stability through your manager, but Chelsea have shown that's not remotely true over the years.
I think the strangest thing Neville was saying today was where after the game he was saying the board need to come out this week and either sack Solskjaer or say he's our manager for the next 6-8 months regardless. As someone who has both been a manager and owns a football club, it seems a very strange thing to say, as he surely knows this isn't how things work. It would be ridiculous to come out with a statement saying Solskjaer will definitely be the manager for another 6-8 months, and then what if we lose another 5 in a row?
I think the strangest thing Neville was saying today was where after the game he was saying the board need to come out this week and either sack Solskjaer or say he's our manager for the next 6-8 months regardless. As someone who has both been a manager and owns a football club, it seems a very strange thing to say, as he surely knows this isn't how things work. It would be ridiculous to come out with a statement saying Solskjaer will definitely be the manager for another 6-8 months, and then what if we lose another 5 in a row?
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Really its as simple as this. We are overloaded in midield with just Scott and Fredd and don't know whether to cover the flanks or the centere.
Its as simple as that and probably as well not good enough to be starting for Man Utd
My take on it is three in midfied - You can have Pogba, Bruno, VBD, Jesse, Matic playing there. Maybe one of McFred but don't see why would we would need it. A midfield three of Pogba LCM CM Matic RCM Bruno should do the job, with lingard, VDB able to slot in and perhaps scott and fred at times.
I dunno we have to go 4-3-3
Solid Midfield with rash left ronaldo center and sancho right.
Most clubs be creaming in their pants with that line up.
Have to go 4-3-3
Its as simple as that and probably as well not good enough to be starting for Man Utd
My take on it is three in midfied - You can have Pogba, Bruno, VBD, Jesse, Matic playing there. Maybe one of McFred but don't see why would we would need it. A midfield three of Pogba LCM CM Matic RCM Bruno should do the job, with lingard, VDB able to slot in and perhaps scott and fred at times.
I dunno we have to go 4-3-3
Solid Midfield with rash left ronaldo center and sancho right.
Most clubs be creaming in their pants with that line up.
Have to go 4-3-3
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Sadly i think Ole will survive and will buy time with a win vs Spurs, with heavy defeats against City and Chelsea.Chelsea i fear will be the biggest slaughter.
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo
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I think city just pass through us. Leicester and liverpool showed how easy to was. Chelsea will struggle to break us down more. We just won't get a shot inSadly i think Ole will survive and will buy time with a win vs Spurs, with heavy defeats against City and Chelsea.Chelsea i fear will be the biggest slaughter.
Bristol_Red_87
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I lost a bit of respect for Gary last night.
He openly admitted he was letting the raw emotion of the result get the better of him and sure, as a former player and fan of the club, goaded by Carra and Sourness, I can understand how that unfolded, but some of his arguments in defence of Ole were as disillusioned as some of those within the club at present.
I get Ole is a former colleague and friend but you could see right through him. His arguements as to who or what was to blame were so incoherent, whilst contining on the theme of questioning the tactics without willingness to lay the blame in the only place it can be laid.
It was such a strange and uncomfortable watch to see someone who generally provides fairly astute assessments when talking as a neutral, consigned to squirming in his seat, all whilst undoubtedly acknowledging within that he didn't truly believe in what he was saying..
He openly admitted he was letting the raw emotion of the result get the better of him and sure, as a former player and fan of the club, goaded by Carra and Sourness, I can understand how that unfolded, but some of his arguments in defence of Ole were as disillusioned as some of those within the club at present.
I get Ole is a former colleague and friend but you could see right through him. His arguements as to who or what was to blame were so incoherent, whilst contining on the theme of questioning the tactics without willingness to lay the blame in the only place it can be laid.
It was such a strange and uncomfortable watch to see someone who generally provides fairly astute assessments when talking as a neutral, consigned to squirming in his seat, all whilst undoubtedly acknowledging within that he didn't truly believe in what he was saying..
Green_Red
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He reckons we need stability. Get off the fecking fence and call a spade a spade. Ole has been shite for 6 months. Stability is getting rid of him.
Swedish_Plumber
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No style of play he says, give ole more time and we shall somehow suddenly see one? He’s had 3 years.
slored1
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He's incredibly funny. The lengths he goes to for not blaming Ole for anything that's happening is ridiculous.
Chairman Steve
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“Individual errors Maaahtin!”
lilcurt
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I don't expect Gary to come out and say his mate should be sacked, but to keep putting it on the players (Bruno and De Gea mostly) whilst absolving his mate of blame seems so classless.
AFC NimbleThumb
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Calm down lads. All Ole needs is a World Class DM to go along with the nearly half billion we’ve spent in his tenure. 3 more years.
Reyoji-Utd
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Really, we dont need much style of play, we just need manager that can make us pass the ball and win us the game. Our DNA is win win win at all cost. SAF is the epitome of that, he throw everyones in the last 15 mins most of the times when we needed the win and it paid off most of the times for him.
tenpoless
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Valencia legend is protecting Ole.. that means he must be good. Trust the process.