Russell Martin - Swansea Manager

Cascarino

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I'm using the fact he's been linked with the Rangers job as justification for making a thread about a championship manager no one cares about, even though the chances of it happening are tiny. Think it's 10/1 atm.

Rangers supporters are understandably very against the idea, with him being a 35 year old who has had one full season in league one and is a few months into a championship stint at Swansea, with the side sitting at 12th and just coming off a 0-4 defeat to Bournemouth. Despite that, I do think sides likes Rangers and other clubs will be keeping an eye on Martin and how he does over next couple years. He only joined the club a few days before the start of the season, so everything's still being implemented. There's been about 20 games so far, and after struggling for points and goals in the first 10, the second 10 has been a lot more promising. Despite the small sample size it's been a good insight on his approach.

Style of play on the ball

Usually set up in a kind of 3-4-2-1, though asymmetrical
The most obvious and apparent part of his game is his commitment to keeping the ball. This is quite the change from Cooper, where ball retention wasn't a high priority, and the side was happy to sit back and stay compact. Where Cooper's Swansea usually had the ball half the time, Swansea this season average about 65% possession. This is the highest in the championship, and more than any side in the PL or the lower divisions. Of course possession is a fairly vague stat and doesn't tell us that much. Early on in the season Swansea struggled massively to break sides down, and often had to resort to passing it left to right in a pedestrian manner. They've improved on this front though and are now balancing control of the ball while also being able to create chances and get the ball into dangerous areas.

Building from the back, Martin has moved previous fullback Kyle Naughton into central defence, and he's flanked by two CBs who will often push much higher than Naughton, as the wide CBs join attacks one of the midfielders will often drop deeper, so if the ball is recycled you have two very competent ball players at the heart of the defence and the wide CBs able to defend aggressively high up the pitch.

This is Ryan Bennet's heat map from the 20/21 season


And here we have the 21/22 season so far


This also facilitates Laird being able to position himself very high.

The wingbacks function quite differently from each other with Bidwell acting as a counterbalance and rarely taking players on (though still providing width down the left). Laird being an excellent dribbler is given a lot of freedom to attack the opposition, being able to take players on in various situations, and possessing the technique and physicality to do so on a regular basis. Many of the teams who face Swansea come so with a plan of sitting deep and staying compact, even when the side was near the bottom of the table, due to how this possession orientated team struggled to break sides down. Laird's ability to play against a compact defence has been instrumental for Swansea when it came to dealing with these scenarios, often winning dangerous set pieces high up the pitch, and having had numerous penalty shouts due to how quick his feet are.

In midfield Grimes functions as the metronome in the side, often acting as a pivot in front of Naughton and constantly recycling the ball. Martin has his side being very patient with the ball, with all of the midfielders being expected to work hard to give teammates passing options. Grimes averages 95 passes in his conservative deep lying role.

Off the ball

Martin employs an aggressive high press, when pressing a team high up the pitch Martin uses a man to man system, with the player nearest the ball closing him down and attempting to block any passing lanes, while the other players will cover any potential nearby passing options. He'll often have the side engaging in pressing traps too, covering options and forcing the opposition into picking out the unmarked player, only to then swarm them. One of the major functions of this system is to continually force the opposition to go long when attempting to play it out from the back, allowing Swansea to consistently control of the ball. The high press needs to be managed for fitness reasons, so the large amounts of possession allows Swansea to dictate the tempo of the game, allowing the side to manage energy levels. This allows for Swansea to enact a short yet intense press upon losing possession. The two wide CBs contribute to the press by being able to push up, allowing them to do their defending higher up the pitch and play a role in stopping counterattacks through defensive actions or coverage.

If the initial press has failed in regaining control of the ball, the side will then take on a more compact shape and ensure they have numbers in the center. The Wingbacks will drop and two of the midfielders will sit in front of the backline, making it hard to play through the middle, with the team pressing in a much milder manner which prioritises the defensive shape.


Why are you wanking him off if he's 12th?

Cooper achieved the playoffs during both of his seasons, so it's a fair question to ask. There's a few mitigating factors, Martin only joined the club on the 1st of August, the first league game was on the 7th. The squad hadn't had much time, with 15 player leaving in the summer (including Andre Ayew who was a real difference maker, and Jamal Lowe who had become important) and many players arriving. Of the current first 11 5 are new signings. It's still very early to know what his managerial level will be but he's made some interesting decisions and has very quickly stamped his style on the side. After struggling initially the team is performing to a much higher level. He's also very easy on the eye




A couple of clips


 

Champ

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Swansea are way to easy to play against, that's why they sit in mid table.

Good teams know if they press them high they will more often than not win the ball off them on a dangerous position, this has happened frequently.
They are too slow at playing it out from the back and seem afraid to mix it up.

Martin has his ideas and way of playing, but doesn't seem able to adapt to change these so far.
 

McGrathsipan

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I'm using the fact he's been linked with the Rangers job as justification for making a thread about a championship manager no one cares about, even though the chances of it happening are tiny. Think it's 10/1 atm.

Rangers supporters are understandably very against the idea, with him being a 35 year old who has had one full season in league one and is a few months into a championship stint at Swansea, with the side sitting at 12th and just coming off a 0-4 defeat to Bournemouth. Despite that, I do think sides likes Rangers and other clubs will be keeping an eye on Martin and how he does over next couple years. He only joined the club a few days before the start of the season, so everything's still being implemented. There's been about 20 games so far, and after struggling for points and goals in the first 10, the second 10 has been a lot more promising. Despite the small sample size it's been a good insight on his approach.

Style of play on the ball

Usually set up in a kind of 3-4-2-1, though asymmetrical
The most obvious and apparent part of his game is his commitment to keeping the ball. This is quite the change from Cooper, where ball retention wasn't a high priority, and the side was happy to sit back and stay compact. Where Cooper's Swansea usually had the ball half the time, Swansea this season average about 65% possession. This is the highest in the championship, and more than any side in the PL or the lower divisions. Of course possession is a fairly vague stat and doesn't tell us that much. Early on in the season Swansea struggled massively to break sides down, and often had to resort to passing it left to right in a pedestrian manner. They've improved on this front though and are now balancing control of the ball while also being able to create chances and get the ball into dangerous areas.

Building from the back, Martin has moved previous fullback Kyle Naughton into central defence, and he's flanked by two CBs who will often push much higher than Naughton, as the wide CBs join attacks one of the midfielders will often drop deeper, so if the ball is recycled you have two very competent ball players at the heart of the defence and the wide CBs able to defend aggressively high up the pitch.

This is Ryan Bennet's heat map from the 20/21 season


And here we have the 21/22 season so far


This also facilitates Laird being able to position himself very high.

The wingbacks function quite differently from each other with Bidwell acting as a counterbalance and rarely taking players on (though still providing width down the left). Laird being an excellent dribbler is given a lot of freedom to attack the opposition, being able to take players on in various situations, and possessing the technique and physicality to do so on a regular basis. Many of the teams who face Swansea come so with a plan of sitting deep and staying compact, even when the side was near the bottom of the table, due to how this possession orientated team struggled to break sides down. Laird's ability to play against a compact defence has been instrumental for Swansea when it came to dealing with these scenarios, often winning dangerous set pieces high up the pitch, and having had numerous penalty shouts due to how quick his feet are.

In midfield Grimes functions as the metronome in the side, often acting as a pivot in front of Naughton and constantly recycling the ball. Martin has his side being very patient with the ball, with all of the midfielders being expected to work hard to give teammates passing options. Grimes averages 95 passes in his conservative deep lying role.

Off the ball

Martin employs an aggressive high press, when pressing a team high up the pitch Martin uses a man to man system, with the player nearest the ball closing him down and attempting to block any passing lanes, while the other players will cover any potential nearby passing options. He'll often have the side engaging in pressing traps too, covering options and forcing the opposition into picking out the unmarked player, only to then swarm them. One of the major functions of this system is to continually force the opposition to go long when attempting to play it out from the back, allowing Swansea to consistently control of the ball. The high press needs to be managed for fitness reasons, so the large amounts of possession allows Swansea to dictate the tempo of the game, allowing the side to manage energy levels. This allows for Swansea to enact a short yet intense press upon losing possession. The two wide CBs contribute to the press by being able to push up, allowing them to do their defending higher up the pitch and play a role in stopping counterattacks through defensive actions or coverage.

If the initial press has failed in regaining control of the ball, the side will then take on a more compact shape and ensure they have numbers in the center. The Wingbacks will drop and two of the midfielders will sit in front of the backline, making it hard to play through the middle, with the team pressing in a much milder manner which prioritises the defensive shape.


Why are you wanking him off if he's 12th?

Cooper achieved the playoffs during both of his seasons, so it's a fair question to ask. There's a few mitigating factors, Martin only joined the club on the 1st of August, the first league game was on the 7th. The squad hadn't had much time, with 15 player leaving in the summer (including Andre Ayew who was a real difference maker, and Jamal Lowe who had become important) and many players arriving. Of the current first 11 5 are new signings. It's still very early to know what his managerial level will be but he's made some interesting decisions and has very quickly stamped his style on the side. After struggling initially the team is performing to a much higher level. He's also very easy on the eye




A couple of clips


Wow that's some post.

Would we take him at United?
 

golden_blunder

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Will it all far apart when we take Laird back?

a system like that only gets better with better players which may be swanseas downfall
 

MileStolar

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Swansea are way to easy to play against, that's why they sit in mid table.

Good teams know if they press them high they will more often than not win the ball off them on a dangerous position, this has happened frequently.
They are too slow at playing it out from the back and seem afraid to mix it up.

Martin has his ideas and way of playing, but doesn't seem able to adapt to change these so far.
Well they're a championship side to be fair, even city under pep wasn't particularly good at playing out from the back before he got to spend a fair
amount on ball savvy defenders.
 

Bertie Wooster

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I'm using the fact he's been linked with the Rangers job as justification for making a thread about a championship manager no one cares about, even though the chances of it happening are tiny. Think it's 10/1 atm.

Rangers supporters are understandably very against the idea, with him being a 35 year old who has had one full season in league one and is a few months into a championship stint at Swansea, with the side sitting at 12th and just coming off a 0-4 defeat to Bournemouth. Despite that, I do think sides likes Rangers and other clubs will be keeping an eye on Martin and how he does over next couple years. He only joined the club a few days before the start of the season, so everything's still being implemented. There's been about 20 games so far, and after struggling for points and goals in the first 10, the second 10 has been a lot more promising. Despite the small sample size it's been a good insight on his approach.

Style of play on the ball

Usually set up in a kind of 3-4-2-1, though asymmetrical
The most obvious and apparent part of his game is his commitment to keeping the ball. This is quite the change from Cooper, where ball retention wasn't a high priority, and the side was happy to sit back and stay compact. Where Cooper's Swansea usually had the ball half the time, Swansea this season average about 65% possession. This is the highest in the championship, and more than any side in the PL or the lower divisions. Of course possession is a fairly vague stat and doesn't tell us that much. Early on in the season Swansea struggled massively to break sides down, and often had to resort to passing it left to right in a pedestrian manner. They've improved on this front though and are now balancing control of the ball while also being able to create chances and get the ball into dangerous areas.

Building from the back, Martin has moved previous fullback Kyle Naughton into central defence, and he's flanked by two CBs who will often push much higher than Naughton, as the wide CBs join attacks one of the midfielders will often drop deeper, so if the ball is recycled you have two very competent ball players at the heart of the defence and the wide CBs able to defend aggressively high up the pitch.

This is Ryan Bennet's heat map from the 20/21 season


And here we have the 21/22 season so far


This also facilitates Laird being able to position himself very high.

The wingbacks function quite differently from each other with Bidwell acting as a counterbalance and rarely taking players on (though still providing width down the left). Laird being an excellent dribbler is given a lot of freedom to attack the opposition, being able to take players on in various situations, and possessing the technique and physicality to do so on a regular basis. Many of the teams who face Swansea come so with a plan of sitting deep and staying compact, even when the side was near the bottom of the table, due to how this possession orientated team struggled to break sides down. Laird's ability to play against a compact defence has been instrumental for Swansea when it came to dealing with these scenarios, often winning dangerous set pieces high up the pitch, and having had numerous penalty shouts due to how quick his feet are.

In midfield Grimes functions as the metronome in the side, often acting as a pivot in front of Naughton and constantly recycling the ball. Martin has his side being very patient with the ball, with all of the midfielders being expected to work hard to give teammates passing options. Grimes averages 95 passes in his conservative deep lying role.

Off the ball

Martin employs an aggressive high press, when pressing a team high up the pitch Martin uses a man to man system, with the player nearest the ball closing him down and attempting to block any passing lanes, while the other players will cover any potential nearby passing options. He'll often have the side engaging in pressing traps too, covering options and forcing the opposition into picking out the unmarked player, only to then swarm them. One of the major functions of this system is to continually force the opposition to go long when attempting to play it out from the back, allowing Swansea to consistently control of the ball. The high press needs to be managed for fitness reasons, so the large amounts of possession allows Swansea to dictate the tempo of the game, allowing the side to manage energy levels. This allows for Swansea to enact a short yet intense press upon losing possession. The two wide CBs contribute to the press by being able to push up, allowing them to do their defending higher up the pitch and play a role in stopping counterattacks through defensive actions or coverage.

If the initial press has failed in regaining control of the ball, the side will then take on a more compact shape and ensure they have numbers in the center. The Wingbacks will drop and two of the midfielders will sit in front of the backline, making it hard to play through the middle, with the team pressing in a much milder manner which prioritises the defensive shape.


Why are you wanking him off if he's 12th?

Cooper achieved the playoffs during both of his seasons, so it's a fair question to ask. There's a few mitigating factors, Martin only joined the club on the 1st of August, the first league game was on the 7th. The squad hadn't had much time, with 15 player leaving in the summer (including Andre Ayew who was a real difference maker, and Jamal Lowe who had become important) and many players arriving. Of the current first 11 5 are new signings. It's still very early to know what his managerial level will be but he's made some interesting decisions and has very quickly stamped his style on the side. After struggling initially the team is performing to a much higher level.
Very good summing up of Russell Martin's style and strengths and weaknesses.

I know some MK Dons fans and that's exactly what they said during his time with them. They loved the intention, and when it worked it was brilliant to watch. But when it didn't (and results were inconsistent leading to a mid table finish) then it was frustrating as hell as they just carried on trying the same thing and didn't really react enough to opponents styles - even though the success or failure of it was often decided more by the tactics of the opponents and how well they were set up to deal with Martin's Plan A.

When Roberto Martinez (who was also at Swansea of course) was at Wigan, a Latics fan I know would often say his possession based tactics (and hatred of set pieces) was more suited to a top team, with top players, than a team with limited resources battling against relegation - so thought that, while they were likely to get relegated under him (as they did) he was good enough to get a job at the likes of Rangers, Celtic, Ajax (big fish in a small pond) where he could get the best players in the country to play his way and then try to earn the opportunity at a top job (I guess the Belgium gig, with their generational talent, is a similar route).

I think Martin could be the same. His unique and technically demanding style of play is more likely to work best at the top teams, with technically gifted players, but until he earns those opportunities he's maybe best to get a job at a big club in a small pond and look to deliver trophies. So the Rangers job, while a huge gamble for them as he's relatively unproven, would be a great opportunity for him to try to do that.
 
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Nick7

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I've watched 45 minutes of a Swansea game so I think I'm qualified to say he looks like a promising manager.

I will say, I keep confusing him with Chris Martin though.
 

Cascarino

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Swansea are way to easy to play against, that's why they sit in mid table.

Good teams know if they press them high they will more often than not win the ball off them on a dangerous position, this has happened frequently.
They are too slow at playing it out from the back and seem afraid to mix it up.

Martin has his ideas and way of playing, but doesn't seem able to adapt to change these so far.
I think the mid table position is slightly a false one atm. I might be overly optimistic, but I think this side will finish the season in the playoffs. After the first 8 or 9 games the team had only registered one win, but since the end of September the cub has been in really good form and there's been some good wins against sides high up in the table.

That doesn't mean I disagree with your points though, good teams pressing high is definitely a problem Swansea will have to deal with, in the Bournemouth game I think 2 of the 4 goals came from possession being turned over in Swansea's own box. And in a game where they had already gone behind it just resulted in a smashing. I wish the international break didn't come straight after a 4-0 loss.

Wow that's some post.

Would we take him at United?
:lol:
Definitely has a very long way to go, but everyone else is being touted!

Will it all far apart when we take Laird back?

a system like that only gets better with better players which may be swanseas downfall
He'd be very hard to replace. I can't really think of a player like him in his position who Swansea could afford/entice. He's become an integral player very quickly, and is one of the few players in the side who can get in behind.

Very good summing up of Russell Martin's style and strengths and weaknesses.

I know some MK Dons fans and that's exactly what they said during his time with them. They loved the intention, and when it worked it was brilliant to watch. But when it didn't (and results were inconsistent leading to a mid table finish) then it was frustrating as hell as they just carried on trying the same thing and didn't really react enough to opponents styles - even though the success or failure of it was often decided more by the tactics of the opponents and how well they were set up to deal with Martin's Plan A.

When Roberto Martinez (who was also at Swansea of course) was at Wigan, a Latics fan I know would often say his possession based tactics (and hatred of set pieces) was more suited to a top team, with top players, than a team with limited resources battling against relegation - so thought that, while they were likely to get relegated under him (as they did) he was good enough to get a job at the likes of Rangers, Celtic, Ajax (big fish in a small pond) where he could get the best players in the country to play his way and then try to earn the opportunity at a top job (I guess the Belgium gig, with their generational talent, is a similar route).

I think Martin could be the same. His unique and technically demanding style of play is more likely to work best at the top teams, with technically gifted players, but until he earns those opportunities he's maybe best to get a job at a big club in a small pond and look to deliver trophies. So the Rangers job, while a huge gamble for them as he's relatively unproven, would be a great opportunity for him to try to do that.
The not reacting to the opponents style could be summed up by the last game, where Swansea were playing away to league leaders Bournemouth, and played in almost exactly the same manner they would have against Hull. So the goals came from exploiting the space Swansea leave behind and also pressing Swansea high and winning possession in the final third. Goals that you just know Bournemouth had spent the days building up to the game working on.

Yeah I'd agree with that summary, the way he approaches the game is definitely more suited to players who are able to operate in a very technical manner and are confident on the ball. In the championship he can get away with it a bit, as the technical level isn't as high, but even then he's had to make alterations, like Naughton playing CB because the others can't provide the passing ability he wanted. Or the club having bought Laird in on loan, as Connor Roberts for all his good qualities doesn't have the technical level to play the role in the way Martin wants it played.

I've watched 45 minutes of a Swansea game so I think I'm qualified to say he looks like a promising manager.

I will say, I keep confusing him with Chris Martin though.
They even look a little alike!
 

GoonerBear

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Thanks for the info Cascarino. I think Rangers will likely go with someone with a little more experience, Van Brockhurst the favourite just now, but it's good to keep an eye on managers that might be of interest in the future, especially ex players (all be it briefly) of the club (I'm Scottish & a Rangers fan first & foremost).
 

Champ

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Well they're a championship side to be fair, even city under pep wasn't particularly good at playing out from the back before he got to spend a fair
amount on ball savvy defenders.
Undoubtedly that is true, but certainly against Bournemouth and one of the other Swansea games I have watched this season, they kept playing it out from the back despite a high press being put on them. They kept giving the ball away in dangerous areas, surely if something keeps happening during the game like that you should have a secondary option, to mix it up.
CEven City go long from time to time for example, if being pressed.
 

slyadams

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I'm an MK Dons ST holder, he managed us for nearly two years.

I loved the way he wanted to play football, he was committed to keeping the ball and he had to put up with a lot of dinosaurs in the stands screaming to boot it long. Last season at one point were 2nd in Europe in ball possession, second only to Bayern. I could count on one hand the number of times our keeper would clear it long in a game. The problem he had was the quality of player wasn't quite there. We would concede sloppy goals and didn't make the most of our possession. He built a really good squad before leaving and it would have been good to see what he could have done with them. Our new manager has stuck to the same principles but is a little more pragmatic.

I was on a fans forum chatting with him and he said something along the lines of "I don't understand when people ask about having a plan B, that to me just seems like reverting to wanting to hoof it long. For me when things aren't working you just need to get better at what you want to do".

Overall I really liked the guy, which is why it was so galling the way he left. There were rumours in during the week about him going and he came out on Friday and said "I'm going nowhere, I'm here for the project at MK" and by Sunday he was gone. For that reason we hate him at the Dons. Most, including me would have wished him well if he'd been up front and honest, but he flat out lied about it.

As for whether he'd do well at United, he'd do better than Ole and I actually think he's a top manager in the making. The Dons were always well coached and it was always 100% clear what he wanted and how we would play. Also, he was not afraid of making early changes, kind of early Jose style, when he could see things weren't going our way. Would I want him at United? Not after the way he behaved, in my mind I would never believe him or trust anything he said.

Side note: its a farce when a league 1 side has a consistent philosophy on how they want to play and has a DoF who went out and found the replacement manager who would fit with that and United cannot. I can say with absolute certainty the MK Dons are better run than United.
 

roonster09

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@Cascarino is he comparable to Rodgers? He also built possession system and Leon Britton was budget Xavi isn't it.
 

slyadams

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@Cascarino is he comparable to Rodgers? He also built possession system and Leon Britton was budget Xavi isn't it.
Its not a bad comparison. Martin is extremely committed to his philosophy, if he concedes from a defender giving the ball away under the press (which will happen) he will not stop. He believes in his method 100%.

The thing with him is that he was with us (Dons) for two season through the panedmic and this would have been his first 'normal' season with a squad that was 100% his. Before we had a chance to see it operate, he left. Now he's started against at Swansea we don't have a baseline for how his methods will actually work given time.
 

Cascarino

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I'm an MK Dons ST holder, he managed us for nearly two years.

I loved the way he wanted to play football, he was committed to keeping the ball and he had to put up with a lot of dinosaurs in the stands screaming to boot it long. Last season at one point were 2nd in Europe in ball possession, second only to Bayern. I could count on one hand the number of times our keeper would clear it long in a game. The problem he had was the quality of player wasn't quite there. We would concede sloppy goals and didn't make the most of our possession. He built a really good squad before leaving and it would have been good to see what he could have done with them. Our new manager has stuck to the same principles but is a little more pragmatic.

I was on a fans forum chatting with him and he said something along the lines of "I don't understand when people ask about having a plan B, that to me just seems like reverting to wanting to hoof it long. For me when things aren't working you just need to get better at what you want to do".

Overall I really liked the guy, which is why it was so galling the way he left. There were rumours in during the week about him going and he came out on Friday and said "I'm going nowhere, I'm here for the project at MK" and by Sunday he was gone. For that reason we hate him at the Dons. Most, including me would have wished him well if he'd been up front and honest, but he flat out lied about it.

As for whether he'd do well at United, he'd do better than Ole and I actually think he's a top manager in the making. The Dons were always well coached and it was always 100% clear what he wanted and how we would play. Also, he was not afraid of making early changes, kind of early Jose style, when he could see things weren't going our way. Would I want him at United? Not after the way he behaved, in my mind I would never believe him or trust anything he said.

Side note: its a farce when a league 1 side has a consistent philosophy on how they want to play and has a DoF who went out and found the replacement manager who would fit with that and United cannot. I can say with absolute certainty the MK Dons are better run than United.
This is really interesting, thanks for sharing! As you've mentioned the keeper, did the MK Dons get involved a lot on the ball under him too? I'm amazed at how much Martin has Hamer and Benda getting involved on the ball, especially when the side is patiently recycling they'll have no problem going back to them and having them push up.

Also if you don't mind what role did the left wingback play under Martins at MK Dons?

Yeah that is pretty shitty. I can understand managers moving on but it's shit when they brazenly lie about their intentions, or in the case of Martins having done it so late into preseason. Martinez soured his legacy at Swansea by having said he would have to be forced out of the club, and criticising players who left to join bigger clubs, only to then shortly leave. The move made perfect sense for him, but he'd done himself in with the supporters by being so vocal about not leaving and judging his players who did.


@Cascarino is he comparable to Rodgers? He also built possession system and Leon Britton was budget Xavi isn't it.
That's a really good comparison (at least the Rodgers who managed Swansea, I don't quite know enough about him at Leicester to say). Like you said they both really valued possession, and also built their side around a player who would safely recycle the ball and set the tempo. There's a couple differences in terms of the shape and things and how Martin uses his wingbacks and CBs, but the way they progress the ball, defend and press are all very similar.
 

roonster09

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Its not a bad comparison. Martin is extremely committed to his philosophy, if he concedes from a defender giving the ball away under the press (which will happen) he will not stop. He believes in his method 100%.

The thing with him is that he was with us (Dons) for two season through the panedmic and this would have been his first 'normal' season with a squad that was 100% his. Before we had a chance to see it operate, he left. Now he's started against at Swansea we don't have a baseline for how his methods will actually work given time.
That's a really good comparison (at least the Rodgers who managed Swansea, I don't quite know enough about him at Leicester to say). Like you said they both really valued possession, and also built their side around a player who would safely recycle the ball and set the tempo. There's a couple differences in terms of the shape and things and how Martin uses his wingbacks and CBs, but the way they progress the ball, defend and press are all very similar.
Thanks guys. When I read this thread, first manager I remembered was Rodgers, with all the Swansea history and how Swansea were called as Swanselona at that time.
 

slyadams

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This is really interesting, thanks for sharing! As you've mentioned the keeper, did the MK Dons get involved a lot on the ball under him too? I'm amazed at how much Martin has Hamer and Benda getting involved on the ball, especially when the side is patiently recycling they'll have no problem going back to them and having them push up.

Also if you don't mind what role did the left wingback play under Martins at MK Dons?

Yeah that is pretty shitty. I can understand managers moving on but it's shit when they brazenly lie about their intentions, or in the case of Martins having done it so late into preseason. Martinez soured his legacy at Swansea by having said he would have to be forced out of the club, and criticising players who left to join bigger clubs, only to then shortly leave. The move made perfect sense for him, but he'd done himself in with the supporters by being so vocal about not leaving and judging his players who did.




That's a really good comparison (at least the Rodgers who managed Swansea, I don't quite know enough about him at Leicester to say). Like you said they both really valued possession, and also built their side around a player who would safely recycle the ball and set the tempo. There's a couple differences in terms of the shape and things and how Martin uses his wingbacks and CBs, but the way they progress the ball, defend and press are all very similar.
Yes, he expected a lot from his keeper. In fact he did a Pep and dropped (and then sold) our first choice keeper and brought in one better with his feet. Even now in fact our goal kicks are taken by a CB who passes to the keeper and we then play out.
 

P-Nut

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I've watched little bits of Swansea this season after seeing both Laird and Martin go across from MK Dons. I like his style of football and agree it will definitely work better with better players.

The other issue Swansea would face is if they got promoted, to stay up they'd have to completely change their way of playing. No chance they'd be able to press as effectively and the spaces in behind would see them ship goals for fun.
 

Remember the geese

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I'm surprised he hasn't really been linked with the Norwich job. Good young manager who plays the right way, as well as being a former player.
 

T00lsh3d

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I'm using the fact he's been linked with the Rangers job as justification for making a thread about a championship manager no one cares about, even though the chances of it happening are tiny. Think it's 10/1 atm.

Rangers supporters are understandably very against the idea, with him being a 35 year old who has had one full season in league one and is a few months into a championship stint at Swansea, with the side sitting at 12th and just coming off a 0-4 defeat to Bournemouth. Despite that, I do think sides likes Rangers and other clubs will be keeping an eye on Martin and how he does over next couple years. He only joined the club a few days before the start of the season, so everything's still being implemented. There's been about 20 games so far, and after struggling for points and goals in the first 10, the second 10 has been a lot more promising. Despite the small sample size it's been a good insight on his approach.

Style of play on the ball

Usually set up in a kind of 3-4-2-1, though asymmetrical
The most obvious and apparent part of his game is his commitment to keeping the ball. This is quite the change from Cooper, where ball retention wasn't a high priority, and the side was happy to sit back and stay compact. Where Cooper's Swansea usually had the ball half the time, Swansea this season average about 65% possession. This is the highest in the championship, and more than any side in the PL or the lower divisions. Of course possession is a fairly vague stat and doesn't tell us that much. Early on in the season Swansea struggled massively to break sides down, and often had to resort to passing it left to right in a pedestrian manner. They've improved on this front though and are now balancing control of the ball while also being able to create chances and get the ball into dangerous areas.

Building from the back, Martin has moved previous fullback Kyle Naughton into central defence, and he's flanked by two CBs who will often push much higher than Naughton, as the wide CBs join attacks one of the midfielders will often drop deeper, so if the ball is recycled you have two very competent ball players at the heart of the defence and the wide CBs able to defend aggressively high up the pitch.

This is Ryan Bennet's heat map from the 20/21 season


And here we have the 21/22 season so far


This also facilitates Laird being able to position himself very high.

The wingbacks function quite differently from each other with Bidwell acting as a counterbalance and rarely taking players on (though still providing width down the left). Laird being an excellent dribbler is given a lot of freedom to attack the opposition, being able to take players on in various situations, and possessing the technique and physicality to do so on a regular basis. Many of the teams who face Swansea come so with a plan of sitting deep and staying compact, even when the side was near the bottom of the table, due to how this possession orientated team struggled to break sides down. Laird's ability to play against a compact defence has been instrumental for Swansea when it came to dealing with these scenarios, often winning dangerous set pieces high up the pitch, and having had numerous penalty shouts due to how quick his feet are.

In midfield Grimes functions as the metronome in the side, often acting as a pivot in front of Naughton and constantly recycling the ball. Martin has his side being very patient with the ball, with all of the midfielders being expected to work hard to give teammates passing options. Grimes averages 95 passes in his conservative deep lying role.

Off the ball

Martin employs an aggressive high press, when pressing a team high up the pitch Martin uses a man to man system, with the player nearest the ball closing him down and attempting to block any passing lanes, while the other players will cover any potential nearby passing options. He'll often have the side engaging in pressing traps too, covering options and forcing the opposition into picking out the unmarked player, only to then swarm them. One of the major functions of this system is to continually force the opposition to go long when attempting to play it out from the back, allowing Swansea to consistently control of the ball. The high press needs to be managed for fitness reasons, so the large amounts of possession allows Swansea to dictate the tempo of the game, allowing the side to manage energy levels. This allows for Swansea to enact a short yet intense press upon losing possession. The two wide CBs contribute to the press by being able to push up, allowing them to do their defending higher up the pitch and play a role in stopping counterattacks through defensive actions or coverage.

If the initial press has failed in regaining control of the ball, the side will then take on a more compact shape and ensure they have numbers in the center. The Wingbacks will drop and two of the midfielders will sit in front of the backline, making it hard to play through the middle, with the team pressing in a much milder manner which prioritises the defensive shape.


Why are you wanking him off if he's 12th?

Cooper achieved the playoffs during both of his seasons, so it's a fair question to ask. There's a few mitigating factors, Martin only joined the club on the 1st of August, the first league game was on the 7th. The squad hadn't had much time, with 15 player leaving in the summer (including Andre Ayew who was a real difference maker, and Jamal Lowe who had become important) and many players arriving. Of the current first 11 5 are new signings. It's still very early to know what his managerial level will be but he's made some interesting decisions and has very quickly stamped his style on the side. After struggling initially the team is performing to a much higher level. He's also very easy on the eye




A couple of clips


I know feck all about the man but that is a hell of a post
 

Cascarino

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I know feck all about the man but that is a hell of a post
That's damn kind of you! I posted it at like 4am and had second thoughts because of it being a long post about a fairly insignificant person, but I'm grateful people have given it a read.

Thanks for the info Cascarino. I think Rangers will likely go with someone with a little more experience, Van Brockhurst the favourite just now, but it's good to keep an eye on managers that might be of interest in the future, especially ex players (all be it briefly) of the club (I'm Scottish & a Rangers fan first & foremost).
Yeah I think that makes sense, especially as he's only been at Swansea for a couple of months, so he's definitely one for the future if his time at Swansea does end up as a success.

I like to keep an eye on ex players too, and it's nice to see how a young manager does and how they evolve. I know very little about Van Bronckhorst as a manager but I remember him being part of that very good Rangers side in the late 90s.
 

slyadams

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That's damn kind of you! I posted it at like 4am and had second thoughts because of it being a long post about a fairly insignificant person, but I'm grateful people have given it a read.



Yeah I think that makes sense, especially as he's only been at Swansea for a couple of months, so he's definitely one for the future if his time at Swansea does end up as a success.

I like to keep an eye on ex players too, and it's nice to see how a young manager does and how they evolve. I know very little about Van Bronckhorst as a manager but I remember him being part of that very good Rangers side in the late 90s.
I feel like Martin needs to serve some time, he spent just under 2 years with us, I would say he needs at least 2 full seasons at Swansea, and even then there's a caveat this first half a season isn't his squad and he had no pre-season.
 

Cascarino

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I feel like Martin needs to serve some time, he spent just under 2 years with us, I would say he needs at least 2 full seasons at Swansea, and even then there's a caveat this first half a season isn't his squad and he had no pre-season.
Yeah absolutely, the lack of preseason was a biggie and I think that's shown in going 11 games with a win or two, but the signs showing what he was trying to do, and then the dam bursting and the side going on a really good run of form.

The last two years Swansea played a very different brand of football as well, so they're all still adapting to the new demands.
 

roonster09

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That's damn kind of you! I posted it at like 4am and had second thoughts because of it being a long post about a fairly insignificant person, but I'm grateful people have given it a read.
Tbh it was superb post and also it's good to read about new managers.

Also looks like many teams are going with 3 at the back formation and dominate possession.

Brighton also play 3 at the back, plays good football. Hopefully we see Russell Martin in PL with Swansea.
 

WeePat

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That's damn kind of you! I posted it at like 4am and had second thoughts because of it being a long post about a fairly insignificant person, but I'm grateful people have given it a read.
Bit harsh :lol:
 

Cascarino

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Tbh it was superb post and also it's good to read about new managers.

Also looks like many teams are going with 3 at the back formation and dominate possession.

Brighton also play 3 at the back, plays good football. Hopefully we see Russell Martin in PL with Swansea.
Cheers mate! And yeah 3 at the back with a possession orientated system is getting a lot more usage. It was a clever move to put Naughton in the center forhis ball playing ability, I honestly thought his lack of size would be a massive issue but he's quite well protected in this system and it's given him a new lease on life because he'd never be able to play the wingback role.

Yeah I see a lot of similarities with Potter and Martin, obviously Potter has been managing far longer and is doing it in the top flight, but if everything goes well for Martin it's definitely possible he could be managing a prem club in a few years, and even though I think he'll be evolving the way he wants to play I'm sure he'll stay committed to playing the type of football he wants to see.

I'd love for it to be Swansea but I think the squad is still lacking in areas, still a good summer window and it could happen next season. The last few seasons there's been a few successful loans and Laird is the most recent (and probably most successful) one, hopefully Swansea can keep getting young talents on loan to fill out the places. When it works it's great for both of the clubs and the player and the quality makes a real difference at this level. Guehi and Gallagher have both taken to the PL very quickly.

Bit harsh :lol:
Came off a lot worse than I intended :lol: I should have ended it with "in the world of football" or something, instead it makes it sound like I'm calling him a scrub.
 

pocco

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I'm an MK Dons ST holder, he managed us for nearly two years.

I loved the way he wanted to play football, he was committed to keeping the ball and he had to put up with a lot of dinosaurs in the stands screaming to boot it long. Last season at one point were 2nd in Europe in ball possession, second only to Bayern. I could count on one hand the number of times our keeper would clear it long in a game. The problem he had was the quality of player wasn't quite there. We would concede sloppy goals and didn't make the most of our possession. He built a really good squad before leaving and it would have been good to see what he could have done with them. Our new manager has stuck to the same principles but is a little more pragmatic.

I was on a fans forum chatting with him and he said something along the lines of "I don't understand when people ask about having a plan B, that to me just seems like reverting to wanting to hoof it long. For me when things aren't working you just need to get better at what you want to do".

Overall I really liked the guy, which is why it was so galling the way he left. There were rumours in during the week about him going and he came out on Friday and said "I'm going nowhere, I'm here for the project at MK" and by Sunday he was gone. For that reason we hate him at the Dons. Most, including me would have wished him well if he'd been up front and honest, but he flat out lied about it.

As for whether he'd do well at United, he'd do better than Ole and I actually think he's a top manager in the making. The Dons were always well coached and it was always 100% clear what he wanted and how we would play. Also, he was not afraid of making early changes, kind of early Jose style, when he could see things weren't going our way. Would I want him at United? Not after the way he behaved, in my mind I would never believe him or trust anything he said.

Side note: its a farce when a league 1 side has a consistent philosophy on how they want to play and has a DoF who went out and found the replacement manager who would fit with that and United cannot. I can say with absolute certainty the MK Dons are better run than United.
Don't, you're making me jealous.

Even if it wasn't what you wanted :lol:
 

Idxomer

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Swansea average 65% in possession which might be the highest ever in Championship history.

England has found the next Pep.
 

Cascarino

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Away to Barnsley midweek was 79%, although the first half in particular was resigned to mostly the Swansea half and chances were few and far between. Away performances haven’t been great though so will gladly take the win.

Quite a few of these players aren’t particularly suited to this style either, so it’d be very interesting to see what he could do with a couple of the right additions, or in the future a different setting.
 

Cascarino

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Poor result against Reading, 2-3 at home.
The high line while vital to the way Swansea play was exploited, with fecking Andy Carroll playing a big role. Overall the performance was pretty good, but the defending for the three goals was fairly comical, especially the third one

Frustrating game.

Carroll and Drinkwater, what year is it
 

Cascarino

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In the playoff spots 3 points from first. Early days yet but it's been a promising start to the season considering the budget constraints and losing Downes in the summer. He's actually shown more tactical flexibility this season than I would have imagined, with a similar ethos overall but being less rigid when it approach play, still getting a lot of the ball but less than last season in favour of testing the opposition keeper a little more.

He's done well with young players as well, according to a table I saw the other day the on pitch average age for Swansea is the third youngest in the league. He was under a little pressure at the start of the season and I was really worried about losing him, but thankfully he's navigated past it.