Let's all laugh at Arsenal!!
- Thread starter Red Pavan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
They fooked up today after playing well. Now playing like a top four side, wish I could say the same about us.
Gabriel ... Supposed to be an experienced player as well
It looks like they're improving massively, the way they play is much better. Also the fact that their main players are youngsters is a huge advantage for them, they can build on on that.
Weekly reminder that Manchester United had the youngest squad in the Premier League two season ago and just sacked the manager who was in charge of that squad.
Having a young squad and having your core based on youngsters is not the same thing.
For example Amad, Elanga, Shoretire count for the average squad age, but their not even remotely part of the core of the team.
We never had 4-5 youngsters that were key under Ole, in fact the only one was Greenwood.
I think the difficulty comes from building on top of the youth. Same thing that have undone Solskjaer / Lampard was spending. Arteta would be wise to let this younger team flourish without changing the teams dynamic drastically.
Another problem arises if the top 6 strengthen next year and are another level above. Arsenal certainly have much to look forward to if they can be consistent.
Xhaka must be responsible for at least a third of those
Their players were absolutely devastated at the end. Their heads will drop and their season will go downhill quickly.
Reminds me of that time Arsenal lost a relatively easy game and captain Gallas was crying on the halfway line at the end.
Reminds me of that time Arsenal lost a relatively easy game and captain Gallas was crying on the halfway line at the end.
I'm not entirely sure what the laugher is about in this case. They're on a good run and played well again today, against Guardiola's City, and were unlucky to end up with nothing.
Two years ago our “core players” included Rashford, Martial, Shaw, AWB, Greenwood and McTominay. Our average age wasn’t being artificially dragged down by fringe players that barely featured.
Yes the challenge comes with expectations, no one really expected Arsenal to challenge for top 4 this season. Top 6 was their target, let's see if they can build on that.
Like feck it was. Arsenal’s two consecutive 8th place finishes under Arteta were aberrations that should never have been accepted as their new norm. And that was the case even before they spent more money than any club in Europe last summer.
That’s not fair. Why would you ignore Lingard?
Feels like Saka is now consistant player at top end of league (still needs to improve his productivity), Smith Rowe had excellent 12 months and Martinelli finally getting some games.
Think issue for Man. United is in that young squad Martial and Rashford would both be classed as young and one will leave this window and other is in worst form of his career. Greenwood having that tricky second full season most youngsters go through so Man. United's best two strikers currently are one who is 37 next month and another who'll be 35 soon.
Arsenal's strength is their young talent. Their weakness is the experienced players regularly letting them down at key moments in games. Xhaka in the Man. City away game and now Gabriel today so still had mentality issue from those who should know better.
I think they're at their strongest point in Arteta's two years and have a chance of making top 4 so all to play for them.
They havent' finished 4th since 2016. Wenger's final two seasons were 5th and Emery managed that in 18/19.
If Arteta finishes 4th he's done pretty well this season imo.
I don't see the correlation between having youngsters in a squad and why sacking a manager that's performing poorly is a bad call.
How many of those "youngsters" improved? Just playing youngsters for the sake of it is not good enough.
Also none of them were youngsters really besides Greenwood, Wan Bissaka and maybe McTominay at that point. Rashford, Martial and Shaw had several seasons under their belts at that time so I wouldn't consider them youngsters if that makes sense.
4th is what they should have been shooting for this season, despite an unusually shit season last season (and the season before) 5th or 6th wouldn’t be a disaster but it’s nuts to talk of those positions as an aspirational goal.
Aye Ralfs been in the job just over a month and lost half his practice time ...he definitely should have us comfortably in top 4 by now
Do you think top 4 is a realistic expectation for arsenal? They're hardly the best 6-7th squad on the league IMO. Getting top 4 for them would be great, overachieving really.
Yeah but go back to even before the first game and I doubt many on here in the pre season prediction threads would be placing Arsenal above say Man. United (even allowing for this being a United forum) given what you signed and invested (and finishing 2nd last season of course). And that's a team who they need to be above to get in top 4 as you'll still be in the mix despite your issues.
Top 3 are just better than the rest although very possible Arsenal could start putting real pressure on Chelsea with another winning run given Chelsea aren't in good shape at all and have a tough six weeks ahead.
Agree with you. If they continue to play like this they will for sure end up ahead of us.
Your really have something against Arsenal don't you? Infact I think it's a bit of jealousy with he amount of rage and passion in your recent posts. The truth is, as seen on many United posts after the Newcastle game is that you need to do a better job of integrating your youngsters with he marquee signings.
No Arsenal fan was expecting top 4. Actually I still don't expect top 4. We can't complete against Chelsea, who by the way have done a great job over past seasons integrating/flipping their youngsters. Liverpool have been a class, established side for years alongside City. Manchester United have signed Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho. 3 key, players to build on from last season.
Arsenal are going through a complete rebuild. It feels like we are knocking the house down and starting fresh. This was our lineup prior to Emery being sacked:
Think it's safe to say no one was expecting a top 4 challenge prior to the season starting. Guess there is no harm in hoping now though? That is what football is all about right? Calm down a bit lad, as Arsenal fans we have suffered from emotional distress for well over 10 years now.
Just been listening to some Arsenal fans on you tube. They think because they gave a tired City the runaround for 45 mins, they have made it. Utd did the double over City last season, and we didn’t get deluded like these lot. One Arsenal fan said he was crying with joy after the final whistle because they out played city.
Just want to remind them they lost today and got battered 5-0 earlier in the season.
Just want to remind them they lost today and got battered 5-0 earlier in the season.
To be fair, I've never seen you laugh unless it was gushing about Messi or Pep..
What is the most difficult game they have won this season? 9th-placed Leicester away or West Ham at home? I feel there has been a massive overreaction to their form. They've lost the same amount of games as Burnley who are 18th. It seems as though every time they are up against it, they lose. And good performance aside, today was another example of that.
It’s a long season with swings and roundabouts. They’ve finished 8th two seasons in a row and have no European commitments. They are relatively fresh compared to their top four rivals. They are certainly in a purple patch, but things can change quickly. It would be a brave man to bet on the consistency and resilience of Arsenal. They Arsenaled their way to defeat in time honoured tradition yesterday. Giving away a needless penalty, missing an open goal, and having a man sent off for a pointless challenge in the Center circle, all in the space of 2.5 minutes. It’s probably the best I’ve seen them play this season, and they still snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
It’s not being mentioned how tired City actually looked. Tired and very sloppy. Where City getting a “break” last Xmas was a massive benefit - we’ve had to play every game right through. I thought we looked tired against Brentford and even worse today.
Thank god there’s a 2 week break now.
People keep on saying no one expected Arsenal to finish top 4 or thereabouts before the start of the season, well the big reason for that is their manager is Arteta. If conte or Ancelotti were their manager and they spent 160m and no European football, they would be considered favorites and a finish outside top 4 would have considered a failure. The expectation also correlates to the manager in charge. There is a reason why suddenly people are expecting Spurs to finish top 4 when 3 months ago they were laughed at. And trust me a finish outside top 4 now with conte at the healm would be some sort of disappointment to most spurs fans. With Arteta the expectation always seems to be pinned down. And for those who talk about process , let us not forget just 3 or 4 weeks back after theit defeat to everton, people were again calling for his head.
Also, they were fortunate even last season to finish 8th, they spent most season 10th or below and once knocked by Villarreal they managed to win last 2 or 3 games when there was no pressure on them and overtook everton and Leeds who were better than them for almost most season.
Having said that, I won't laugh at them today. They were good and were somewhat hard done by the refs. The real challenge is against Spurs. Lose that and they could be 6th or 7th.
Also, they were fortunate even last season to finish 8th, they spent most season 10th or below and once knocked by Villarreal they managed to win last 2 or 3 games when there was no pressure on them and overtook everton and Leeds who were better than them for almost most season.
Having said that, I won't laugh at them today. They were good and were somewhat hard done by the refs. The real challenge is against Spurs. Lose that and they could be 6th or 7th.
This is factually incorrect.
During the 4-0 drubbing of Chelsea at the 19/20 season opener, MUFC played the youngest PL team in that season. For the majority of that season, the average age of the squad on the pitch in any given PL round was either Manchester United, or we were in the top5.
A youngster is not a 19 year old. That's a U23 player. Teenagers who make it to the Premier League are incredibly rare considering the amount of footballers around. A youngster is someone who is a developing player, ie. most players under the age of 24.
Greenwood was 18, Rashford was 21, Mctominay 22, Luke Shaw 23, Lindelöf 24, Martial 23. Bruno Fernandes came in at the age of 24 from Sporting in January.
All of those players have been vital parts of this Manchester United squad and are very much part of the backbone of the club up to the current season where the dynamic has shifted a lot with the introduction of Ronaldo and some real struggles with settling into a new rythm.
The discussion of "younger the better" reminds me of the same topic being discussed at the "World Cup of Hockey" in 2016 when a team comprised of the best players of each region was put together to play a game of hockey.
Team North America comprised of primarily young NHL star talents including Connor McDavid and other megastars of the game. The "young stars" came last in the tournament.
Certainly playing better than us, when you consider what Arsenal were like at the beginning of the season it’s a amazing turn around in form.
There's your big mistake.
It's not really about the difficulty in games. Every team can beat any team in this league, bar City it seems. So a starting point is finding consistency in beating the teams you should be beating. It's a great basis to build from, & the you can try & improve the team further to then let you compete in the bigger games better.
It’s because Pogue is having a bit of a meltdown about being wrong about Arteta
I’m not sure what that has to do with anything. Talking about squad building in football, not a random hockey game
Him and Emanuel Petit.
Hardly a meltdown and my antipathy for Arsenal began well over a decade before Arteta took over. Unlike most on here I’m old enough to remember when they were a legitimately very good team and have thoroughly enjoyed all their struggles since then.
I bumped this thread specifically because of the comical way they managed to lose today. Gabriel getting sent off when one of his bookings was trying to tear up the penalty spot is right up there with any other kind of footballing feckwittery you can think of. The fact his second booking was a mere two minutes later, within seconds of Martinelli missing an open goal, made it even more perfect.
Than you have Xhaka being Xhaka to concede a pen. The burning injustice over VAR and the “plucky 10 men Arsenal earn brave point” narrative from the arse-licking commentary team getting torched in injury time.
All in all a thoroughly enjoyable series of events. If this is a meltdown I’ll have more where that came from please!
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You meant Patrick Vieira of course.
No, but I haven’t checked the stats. I remember him as a really dirty player. Could just be based on a one game impression…
Yeah "meltdown" was an exaggeration, it was just tongue in cheek because of the amount of Arsenal posts you'd gotten in today (not that I can talk).
I do think the better they do the more damage it'll have to your sanity though!
Vieira had 8 red cards I think, Petit had 3.