Cricket

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slyadams said:
Cricket is the only sport I can think of where traditionally there was separation between the coaching staff and the selectors. For me it always seemed very old fashioned and drummed up images of a bunch of old out of touch guys picking a team/squad. Moving to the situation where the coach picked the team made a lot of sense to me because this is how it works in almost any other sport and it provides much clearer lines of responsibility. However, I'm now seeing calls to go back to how it was with a dedicated selector.

Why is cricket so different in this respect? Why shouldn't a national coach be able to select the side they're going to take into battle?
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It’s actually more similar than you’d think, for instance look at football. It’s not uncommon in the slightest for managers to have little/no input in training, or on the other side of that for a director of football to be involved in signings etc…

With cricket you have the added complication of how much time is spent on the road, it can make players a lot more closed off because they know if they go to their coach with a problem they have, be it confidence crash they’re going through or whatever, then it’s got a strong chance of effecting future selection if the coach is also selector. This makes players more likely to keep any issues to themselves which then bubble up and get much much worse.

Coaches usually have a spot in the room for selection discussions, as they should do, but for me it’s absolutely correct that there are other people in that room with other insights.
 

slyadams

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phelans shorts said:
It’s actually more similar than you’d think, for instance look at football. It’s not uncommon in the slightest for managers to have little/no input in training, or on the other side of that for a director of football to be involved in signings etc…

With cricket you have the added complication of how much time is spent on the road, it can make players a lot more closed off because they know if they go to their coach with a problem they have, be it confidence crash they’re going through or whatever, then it’s got a strong chance of effecting future selection if the coach is also selector. This makes players more likely to keep any issues to themselves which then bubble up and get much much worse.

Coaches usually have a spot in the room for selection discussions, as they should do, but for me it’s absolutely correct that there are other people in that room with other insights.
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I see what you're saying, and for example in US sports you have the concept of the GM who generally oversees the recruitment.
 

zing

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Love the u19 World Cup and love cricket in the Caribbean. Anyone watching? England are playing now. Does not seem like a competitive match.
 

AshRK

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Zimbabwe beating SL, Ireland beating WI. Feel high time the game is spread and these associate nations play more against the big boys. Am glad the 10 country WC thing is over after the next WC. Although love the format but feel it's not correct on these smaller countries. Time to grow the game and not limit it.
 

crappycraperson

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slyadams said:
Cricket is the only sport I can think of where traditionally there was separation between the coaching staff and the selectors. For me it always seemed very old fashioned and drummed up images of a bunch of old out of touch guys picking a team/squad. Moving to the situation where the coach picked the team made a lot of sense to me because this is how it works in almost any other sport and it provides much clearer lines of responsibility. However, I'm now seeing calls to go back to how it was with a dedicated selector.

Why is cricket so different in this respect? Why shouldn't a national coach be able to select the side they're going to take into battle?
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I would say in cricket, captains get a very big say in every 11 selection, especially if it is an experienced captain. Reasoning being that captain is the person making all decisions for at least 50% of the match i.e. when fielding so they should have the players they want.
 

KM

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Skills said:
India's future's bleak if the plan is to have KL Rahul leading them
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Amazing talent but one of the most selfish players I’ve seen playing for india.
 

Skills

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KM said:
Amazing talent but one of the most selfish players I’ve seen playing for india.
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Is he really that amazing of a talent compared to the likes of Gill, Shaw & Pant?

The 2/3 really should be opening for India.
 

KM

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Skills said:
Is he really that amazing of a talent compared to the likes of Gill, Shaw & Pant?

The 2/3 really should be opening for India.
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Yup he is but doesn't matter if the intent isn't there.

Pant is okay at 4. Shaw should be opening.
 

AshRK

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Skills said:
Kohli's finished isn't he?
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Well if you call him finished, what does that make our other batters. Honestly we need an overall change to our odi setup. I know dhawan is popular but what is the point of playing him in deadrubber of a game when you could have tried Ishan or Ruturaj. One could have also tried with Venkatesh Iyer at top of the order. I feel this management is afraid to make major changes.
 

iKnowNothing

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Indian U-19 team has won the World Cup beating England in the finals.
Bawa from this team needs be groomed for the all rounder spot for the men’s team.
 

Wibble

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Ish said:
Yeah, that’s a shame. He’s done very well after sandpaper gate. Heard a few players weren’t happy with his intense coaching methods. Any idea who those few players might be?
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Most of them I suspect. Not one current player has called for him to be retained as far as I know. Cummins has stopped short of endorsing an extension for Langer recently so you get the feeling he isn't a huge fan for sure. Langer ramped it back for the T20 WC and Ashes series after players complained about his domineering old school approach and there was even a mediation session required.
 
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The fact that he didn't do well until he relinquished some control to others after that mediation hasn't helped his case.
 

Ish

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Wibble said:
Most of them I suspect. Not one current player has called for him to be retained as far as I know. Cummins has stopped short of endorsing an extension for Langer recently so you get the feeling he isn't a huge fan for sure. Langer ramped it back for the T20 WC and Ashes series after players complained about his domineering old school approach and there was even a mediation session required.
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Thanks Wibs. Aargh sounded a little like player power or spoilt players from the bits I read - what’s the general feeling over in Aus? Deserved more time? Players are primadonnas? Just from the outside looking in, seems like he “deserved” an extension but had no idea mediation etc was required. So clearly there’s been tension for a while already.
 

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Ish said:
Thanks Wibs. Aargh sounded a little like player power or spoilt players from the bits I read - what’s the general feeling over in Aus? Deserved more time? Players are primadonnas? Just from the outside looking in, seems like he “deserved” an extension but had no idea mediation etc was required. So clearly there’s been tension for a while already.
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I like many of the current players and I'm not a fan of hardarse old-school coaching so I tend to think it is a good thing. But wtf do I know?

Former international players (some, but not all, Langer's mates) are outraged but I'm not sure the public care much, except in WA where he is from. I think they like Cummins far more than they do Langer. Also interesting that Smith and Warner have not endorsed Langer so it seems that Langer has put everyone offside.
 
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iKnowNothing said:
Indian U-19 team has won the World Cup beating England in the finals.
Bawa from this team needs be groomed for the all rounder spot for the men’s team.
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Record number of U19 wins. Something is being done right there. I wonder if then stepping into the IPL limelight ends up being counterproductive.
 

Cooksen

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Ish said:
Thanks Wibs. Aargh sounded a little like player power or spoilt players from the bits I read - what’s the general feeling over in Aus? Deserved more time? Players are primadonnas? Just from the outside looking in, seems like he “deserved” an extension but had no idea mediation etc was required. So clearly there’s been tension for a while already.
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Langer had an abrasive personality and Australia did better when Langer was letting the assistants do more work.

Players were just tired of his bullshit.

Its like Jose getting sacked in 2018 at United, the man was just toxic.
 

ArmchairCritic

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Wouldn’t be big on Langer as England coach. It is arguable that England need a firmer hand than Australia and perhaps Langer was just a bad personality fit with the Australian players. I don’t think his record with better players than he’ll have as England coach is good enough though. Most of Langer’s legacy comes down to the last few months where they put together a few good games in the T20 and then beat down a rubbish England team. Under him they also bungled a series win in England and lost 2 in a row to India at home.

I know it’s a bit of a harsh way to look at things considering the context he took over in but I can’t say I was massively impressed by his work from afar, especially once he got Warner and Smith back.
 
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AshRK

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MDFC Manager said:
Record number of U19 wins. Something is being done right there. I wonder if then stepping into the IPL limelight ends up being counterproductive.
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I would say IPL is fine. If not for IPL these guys may not even get any chance to rub shoulders with international senior players. I feel for last 4 or 5 years our management have developed a fear of givinf consistent chances to these young players. The other day I read a stupid qoute from Rohit where he said Ruturaj, Ishan, Shaw are for the future and he jokingly said do you want me and dhawan to be dropped? Imagine if dhoni had done the same to those two and said let me persist with Sehwag and Gambhir, Dhawan and Rohit can come later.

The way the management have treated shaw and Gill (two key players from 2018 wc winning campaign) is nothing but a joke. I know shaw is inconsistent but that's where persistence is the key. Same with Ishan or Ruturaj. The latter not getting to play one game because Dhawan had to statpad in a deadrubber. Same can be said about bowling. Giving chance after chance to Bhuvi, chahal and even bringing back Ashwin to limited over cricket rather building new talents is a joke. I hope we get to see Bishnoi given consistent chance.
 

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Wibble said:
I like many of the current players and I'm not a fan of hardarse old-school coaching so I tend to think it is a good thing. But wtf do I know?

Former international players (some, but not all, Langer's mates) are outraged but I'm not sure the public care much, except in WA where he is from. I think they like Cummins far more than they do Langer. Also interesting that Smith and Warner have not endorsed Langer so it seems that Langer has put everyone offside.
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Cooksen said:
Langer had an abrasive personality and Australia did better when Langer was letting the assistants do more work.

Players were just tired of his bullshit.

Its like Jose getting sacked in 2018 at United, the man was just toxic.
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Thanks both, for giving a different perspective over the sort of “outside looking in” superficial one I had. I’d just read (as Wibble said) a lot of Langers mates (ex pros) comments who all seem pissed off, and adding that he’d just won a T20 and a 4-0 Ashes, seemed a harsh decision.

Hopefully you guys appoint a good coach to continue the upward trajectory.
 

mariachi-19

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Ish said:
Thanks both, for giving a different perspective over the sort of “outside looking in” superficial one I had. I’d just read (as Wibble said) a lot of Langers mates (ex pros) comments who all seem pissed off, and adding that he’d just won a T20 and a 4-0 Ashes, seemed a harsh decision.

Hopefully you guys appoint a good coach to continue the upward trajectory.
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I think Ponting is odds on favourite. He’ll do well if he does.
 

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Disappointing to see Ravi Bopara caught ball tampering in the Bangladesh Premier League. Was looking at Twitter and apparently he was made captain today, didn't bowl their leading wicket-taker (8 wickets at 9.25 in 3 games) and Betfair have suspended odds on all matches involving Sylhet.
 

mariachi-19

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IRN-BRUno said:
Disappointing to see Ravi Bopara caught ball tampering in the Bangladesh Premier League. Was looking at Twitter and apparently he was made captain today, didn't bowl their leading wicket-taker (8 wickets at 9.25 in 3 games) and Betfair have suspended odds on all matches involving Sylhet.
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That seems a little more than ball tampering, that seems like match fixing…
 
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