I'm slightly (well, very) worried that he'll lose interest if we keep putting in performances like that. There's no way we're going to bring in 5+ players in the next window, or at least the right calibre needed. Many of these players are still going to be here next year, unless their contracts have run out.
City have had 92% possession in the 2nd half (in the last 20mins)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
We won't be gaining any new supporters for a while. We have about 5 players in the squad worth keeping.
Can never tell if you're trolling. If you are, it's excellent work! If you're not, you should surely not even have to ask that particular why as it should be rhetorical.
We need not buy 5 players, we can buy 3 and get two from the academy. Young kids coming through will listen more and will be easier to coach whilst the prima donnas we have will throw a hissy fit.
The system ten hag plays will need players who can fecking run.
Bit harsh. We had 30% in 5-1 defeat in u18s yesterday
Why don’t you tell us?
Meaningless stat. We were defending deep to hang onto a 2-1 deficit and maybe nick a last second goal, but we couldn't even manage doing that.
What words would you like attached to 8% possession?
It would make interesting reading to see how many times that does happen to teams with CL aspirations, though.
I don’t know? You posted the thread?
Just say what you think. Its much easier and makes for a much more interesting thread. You could even explain why you think that happened and what could be done to improve etc.
It’s a pointless stat at the end of the day. Counterattacking is a common tactic against a Guardiola team. They‘ll try to overload the penalty box for huge goal opportunities but leave so much space to counter if the ball falls into the opposing teams hands.
Remember the LVG days? All that possession and hovering around a opposition penalty box? Then maybe get sucker punched by a counterattack?
Remember the LVG days? All that possession and hovering around a opposition penalty box? Then maybe get sucker punched by a counterattack?
Did we counter them really at all in that period?
They were fully in control of the game. We weren't sitting back to try and counter, we were cluelessly sleeping through a game we believed we'd already lost
What do we expect really? We purposely made our team worse in January.
We play a midfield pair that wouldn't be fit to playing together for a team fighting for relegation.
We play a midfield pair that wouldn't be fit to playing together for a team fighting for relegation.
It's the lack of effort than the quality of the players. Rashford and Lingard did feck all and Pundits like Garry Neville will never mention that these players are just shit and never showing any effort to win the ball or close the space.
McTominay and Maguire are another but will keep going on about Fred and Lindelof.
The same words that I've been repeating on here for several years now.
City have a head coach who has a clear defined way of implementing a imposing brand of football. Where he (Guardiola) sets his team up to play in the oppositions half. So the aim from the outset is to take the game to the opponent with a high defensive line. And to do that effectively, the recruitment of players has to be centred around playing high up the pitch and to impose upon the opposition. Liverpool do the same thing and have a clear idea on how they want to implement their own version of playing the game in the opponents half.
We at United have allowed managers post Fergie to buy players that don't fit into the approach of Liverpool and City. Our players are best suited to playing in a low/mid-block setup, where more players are involved in defensive transitions, rather than what we see at City and Liverpool who have created conditions at their clubs, where they can sacrifice defensive stability for goals on a consistent basis, playing a brand of football that is highly intensive with and without the ball.
For me we have to replicate what City and Liverpool do when it comes to playing the game in the opponent's half. And to do that we have to first create conditions at CB where both our CBs are comfortable playing as the last line of defense in a compact high block. Which will create the foundation for the fullbacks, midfielders and forwards to press high. Maguire is a clear weak player here and a upgrade on him for a player who fits the above criteria would be beneficial in creating a well oiled machine.
The fullbacks and midfield also needs to be upgraded with players who are good on the ball but equally just as good without the ball, to provide that intensity that is badly missing. We can't sign players who are easily bypassed in a high defensive line. So technical ability on the ball is very important but being strong in defensive transitions against the counter attack is just as important. Which will occur from time to time. But those positions need filling with players with the correct attributes.
I can only speak for myself, but the below quotes from Ralf Rangnick represent me a as a fan. And it's something which I've shared on here for several years. And it's the reason why I was critical of the signings of Maguire and AWB at a time when people were saying Solskjaer had got the recruitment right in 2019.
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Excellent post, can't disagree with anything here. I've been foolish enough to believe in lots of things I shouldn't have out of blind optimism, but I think you've nailed it really.
This is a problem. It will take a few transfer windows to sort out.
You expect us to do anything meaningful with 8% possession in 20 minutes while chasing the game?
Derby has been a training/exhibition game for City for a minute now.
It’s embarrassing
It’s embarrassing
People generally tend to focus on the fact that city chase like mad when they lose the ball while we don’t which is true but you can’t ignore the technical ability difference as well which matters a lot. They chase like mad because they don’t have to do it all the time and once they win the ball they have the technical ability plus the tactical system in place to keep the ball moving around. We on the other hand have poor setup & our players make so many bad passes it completely boggles my mind
There was a moment today when Fred got the ball at the edge of our box and Telles started to run forward. Fred was probably 10-15 feet away from Telles & there was no one in between them. Fred passed it with his left and the ball went behind Telles which the city player ran to get and attack us . It just killed me thinking that I am rooting for this guy making over 100k a week playing football and he can’t get that pass right . This happens at least 10 times in our games . If you can’t keep it then you will be chasing it all game and obviously not be able to do it well
There was a moment today when Fred got the ball at the edge of our box and Telles started to run forward. Fred was probably 10-15 feet away from Telles & there was no one in between them. Fred passed it with his left and the ball went behind Telles which the city player ran to get and attack us . It just killed me thinking that I am rooting for this guy making over 100k a week playing football and he can’t get that pass right . This happens at least 10 times in our games . If you can’t keep it then you will be chasing it all game and obviously not be able to do it well
The way they dragged us out at the end was almost like a training session. They held onto the ball at the halfway line, kept dropping deeper and deeper pulling more of our attackers back and then when there was a massive hole in the middle of the pitch they'd play right through it.
Considering our troubles with holding on after going ahead, we can learn a lot
Considering our troubles with holding on after going ahead, we can learn a lot
I’ve heard a load of their fans refer to it as the bi-annual training session, even before a ball was kicked today. Couldn’t have been more right.
Even in that first half that was supposedly okay by us, we concede within 5 mins and conceded again 6 mins after being level.
Barca lost because of poor finishing and great goalkeeping not tactics. They were all over Celtic from the first whistle.
The possession stat is not meaningless especially considering we were 2 goals down, how do you come back if you don't have the ball?
Nothing I'd argue against there. I think this is the kind of thing @TheReligion was looking for.
I admire your ability to remain steadfast and resolute at a time when the walls are crumbling around us.
This season probably has the biggest disparity from what I envisaged at the start of a season to what we have been served up in all of the post-Fergie years. This summer seems like a pivotal one, even for us, so many things need fixing that it doesn't bear thinking about... not in term of addressing in and of itself, but how much of what needs fixing we'll manage to accomplish.
I'm in agreement with your post and cannot wait for the day we modernise and play progressive and proactive football.
8% possession is a nadir, even for us. Ugh.
I don't think its about modernising.
Passing the ball well has always been the key to sustained success. This isn't a new thing. Same with off the ball movement.
It's not that we play old fashioned foootball while City play ultra modern stuff.
It's that they look after the ball, all play the same way and we don't.
I'd argue front-front, high defensive line, aggressive hunting of the ball in the opposition half is almost the totality of modern football with the disparity between teams then coming from what a they chose to do with it, be that possession-based or vertical as both of the aforementioned sides exemplify - we aren't just short because of our passing, there's a whole lot more we're miles behind the times with.
I was at the pub, next to me were three 8-12 year old boys, United fans. They were all happy at first but became completely demoralised in the second half. Really felt for them. I was lucky to grow up watching Fergie's teams.
Progressive, proactive football isn’t a new way of playing. It's the style that's always brought success.
How many post match interviews this season have trotted out the same lines… “we made too many mistakes” “our passing was poor” .. and the old fav “we must learn and improve next game” … but we never do improve, the mistakes just keep happening.. and the next post match Interview with manager/players is the same song on repeat..
something is very wrong, Mctominays post match interview yesterday made it clear that things are not right in the dressing room. He admitted as much by his lack of denial.
something is very wrong, Mctominays post match interview yesterday made it clear that things are not right in the dressing room. He admitted as much by his lack of denial.
Has anyone got a video of McTomminay's post match? I missed it.
The way it is now rolled up into a style unique to this era is what makes it modern. It's a concerted, uniform system now. It hasn't been in the past.
Even if Guardiola invented progressive, proactive football(he didn't), he himself has been at it for 15 years. At some point it's no longer modern.
But there was nothing new or special about City yesterday. Their pressing wasn't some kind of superhuman effort. They just played the type of good football that's been the winning formula for many a decade.
Our football isn't old fashioned. It's just rubbish. Wouldn't be successful in any era.
I’m pretty certain it wasn’t much different in the last 5 minutes either mate. We didn’t touch the ball.
I didn't say anything about Guardiola, but there has to come a time - and we can argue the arbitrary starting point - where a set of systems are seen as modern. They are progressive because they are worked and honed to a fine point then executed, and the collective becomes a school of thought. As I said previously, it can diversify once in possession of the ball, but how teams set out to acquire the ball, and where they concertedly apply themselves to do so, is certainly what delineates timelines, as you won't see that school of thought collectively carried out by a host of teams prior to that.
Call it a trend, if it suits, but the principles are pretty much set in stone.
Re. Your last paragraph, we are massively behind the times. The football is rubbish, too. Both exist in conjunction.
This was posted when thread title was just 'in the second half'
Absolute domination and we didn’t cared about getting the ball back or putting up a fight to win the ball at least.
Players level dropped and stopped chasing the ball and started to defend like they’re having a lead. Looked like a championship league team level defending.
Players level dropped and stopped chasing the ball and started to defend like they’re having a lead. Looked like a championship league team level defending.
Celtic beat Barca with 13% possession,
Only takes one ball to create a chance, Just look at Harry Wilsons goal for Fulham over the weekend, literally one ball and he was in.
You are statically less likely to score a goal the more passes you make.
Picking a complete anomaly of a game as an example of why this is meaningless is meaningless.
Celtic beat Barca with 13% possession,
Only takes one ball to create a chance, Just look at Harry Wilsons goal for Fulham over the weekend, literally one ball and he was in.
You are statically less likely to score a goal the more passes you make.
Regardless of whether it's possible to beat a team with a huge possession deficit it's still not very good.
The second half performance wasn't good.
But having 15% possession in a ten minute period, whilst not great, doesn't really mean much.
We had 34% possession when we beat them 2-0 last year, 27% when we beat them 2 years ago in 2020, it mean very little in the grand scheme of things as I am sure in those games you could have picked a similar 10/15 minute period with a similar possession stat.
If you tippy tally the ball back and forth between two players for ten minutes, so what? Scoring goals is the only stat that counts.