What is h2h? Tritium?
Guardiola v Klopp H2H
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
head to head?
They actually say it was the biggest rivalry on sky sports?I think Fergie vs Wenger was a lot more intense (also Keane vs Vieira, RVN incident etc.)
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I guess in terms of points totals and quality of football then you could argue it. Something about the notion of it being the best leaves me cold though. For me it goes back to what others were saying about City's success. What Liverpool have done and the way the club has operated under Klopp has my (grudging) admiration. City is just, meh!
Also, the Chelsea vs United years were fun but even they were nothing compared to United vs Arsenal or the prime Messi/Barca vs Real/Ronaldo years. Sometimes you have to have that edge for a great rivalry
YesAnyway the answer is United vs Arsenal. feck this pally love you too piece of shit. Anytime the PL has a title race (which is like thrice a decade) it must be hailed as the greatest something.
The point argument totals don't hold up as the gap between the bottom and top teams was simply not as great as it is now, especially depth wise as even though the starting 11 of that era might be even better than the ones now ( ours and arsenal are both all time starting 11s) the bench depth simply doesn't hold up case in point take a look at ours and Arsenal's bench and compare it to city.
Solskjær had 4 w 1 d 4 l against pep, so it’s possible.
It's fine margins but I think they are better than us. Even though I think we have better players. So they'll probably win the league.
I guess pep really is the best.
I guess pep really is the best.
Yep, would agree with that.
Pep has stopped tinkering against us and started to trust his side more. And it shows.
Not a lot amongst the two sides, but they seem to have just a little bit more.
Not a lot amongst the two sides, but they seem to have just a little bit more.
Fabinho really stood out like a sore thumb technically. I think if Henderson plays DM you win this particular one.
It was one of his worst games for us. Normally he is much more assured technically than this. Dont know what was up with him.
Thiago was the only one who looked up to snuff technically in midfield yesterday. Probably should have started Keita in hindsight.
Definitely should have started keita, Henderson doesn’t have the legs anymore to play as an 8, as a deputy 6 he’s fine. He just gets played around and pressed high up the pitch and struggles to turn and play.
Against most teams you can get away with it but against the best you’ll be punished, even arsenal had a foothold when we played the same team for an hour vs them.
They’ve outplayed you twice this season and somehow you got away with 2-2 on both occasions. It’s yet another game that Liverpool survived by the opposition missing chances they should score, City are a lot more comfortable when they win games. There’s a lot more between the two than the table shows imo
Liverpool just have a lot more firepower than City. That keeps them in it even if as a team they're not as good.
An extra 500m on our squad helps. Nothing between them imho other than resources.
Yeah that's nonsense.
If you think there wasn't prep done against Liverpool and he just told the lads to go out and have fun like Ole you're having a laugh.
Lads...it's Liverpool
Walker and De Bruyne are always the big players for you against us, I feel.
Without Walker, we'd have scored a lot more against your lot over the years. The number of 1on1s he snuffs out is super annoying. And De Bruyne because he is hardly ever rattled by the press. Everyone else gets forced into too difficult low-yield decisions or percentage stuff and he just plays the same game as always.
KDB is just a big game player but he's allowed lose the ball more than anyone else in our side so it allows him to be braver I find than someone like Bernardo who kinda gets switched into workhorse mode vs you guys (almost 12.5k covered in the match yesterday). Our team in general are very press resistant but Rodri is the one who can be got at sometimes and overwhelmed more so than even our CB's. I thought Klopp would play Firminio to drop and sit on him yesterday.
It would nerf your attacking somewhat but if you had one fullback with Walkers pace you'd be pretty much unstoppable, because your one weakness is when you get turned in behind. City were preparing for that the last 2 matches. We have Walker to bail us out when that happens, for all the defensive talents you have, that recovery pace is what you lack (which makes your high line even braver).
Walker is ideal at making up that ground, even against dudes like Mane and Salah (he's not vastly quicker but when they are running with the ball, he can eat up the ground, in a straight up foot race running on to the ball, he's only marginally quicker so chances like the goal yesterday are beyond him), if only he could cut out the occasional brain farts and be switched on for the entire game he'd be a truly world class defender. Trents tekkers and Walkers physical attributes would probably make the perfect fullback.
I find this wrong, Pep completely tweaked the playstyle and tactics for this game.
He played more direct than I've ever seen yesterday and he's been preparing for it for a week. City rarely hit long angled balls behind the fullbacks (ala Liverpool) but it was our first point of attack yesterday instead of the slow patient build up he normally has the team use.
He put Sterling on the right and Foden on the left for their pace to exploit those area's with long diagonals. Mahrez and Grealish who usually play there are too slow.
He dropped Bernardo 20 yards deeper beside Rodri and put him in the run around like crazy mode.
KDB played pretty much as a no.10 (instead of 8) allowing him to push up on Fabinho and play in the spaces behind Thiago.
It was pretty much a 4231 with the ball for City.
The defensive line was set at the midpoint between the halfway line and 18 yard box. Standard Pep has us play with the defensive line on the halfway line. In fact against Atletico 3 days earlier, we had only 1 player whos average position was in our own half.
Without the ball we normally press with a 424 (one of the no.8's pushes up beside the false 9) on the CB's. Yesterday this was far less common because of Bernardo's deeper position.
If I had to make one tactical assumption it was that Pep told us "Play like Liverpool do". Even Klopp commented on how we were more Liverpool like yesterday and you guys played more patient and City like.
I would say Foden normally De Bruyne hasn’t always been good in those games.
I think this Manchester City Liverpool rivalry has been great, I think they've both raised each other's standards and the consistency has been incredible. Big fan of both their footballing approaches and they both have some great players to watch. Thought the game yesterday was great.
For best PL rivalry it's still Arsenal United for me. There's a clear respect between Klopp and Guardiola and it even seems to be pretty cordial between the players, the football on display between them is great but I always liked the drama of the Wenger Ferguson years, there was such an intensity there with some massive characters and even as a neutral it was hard not to be magnetised by it. I always like a little drama when it comes to rivalries.
For best PL rivalry it's still Arsenal United for me. There's a clear respect between Klopp and Guardiola and it even seems to be pretty cordial between the players, the football on display between them is great but I always liked the drama of the Wenger Ferguson years, there was such an intensity there with some massive characters and even as a neutral it was hard not to be magnetised by it. I always like a little drama when it comes to rivalries.
Good write up. I definitely think going direct contributed to the hectic start on Liverpool's end, with the Liverpool players being caught between trying to find someone or just clear it, and the first goal partly coming from one of those situations. And yeah the 2 and 1 was noticeable compared to the 1 and 2 you usually go with, and as you said this also changed the pressing shape. Great game.
Disagree. The strides Liverpool have taken under Klopp are greater than the strides City have taken under G. Also Liverpool do not have an infinite budget and operate under constraints that don't exist for City. City had a £1B headstart and there is not much that separates the two sides. That is down to Klopp.
I meant overthinking tactics. Of course there is prep. Even Ole did that.
I guess, I didn't get my point across correctly. He didn't over think his tactics and made ultra defensive changes.
Fair enough on the tweaking of tactics. They were more direct, and especially timed their runs to perfection. They were trying to catch our high line, with quick release instead of patient play.
It's not just down to Klopp but also the excellent way in which Liverpool are run. And Liverpool were capable of more strides too, whereas City had less scope for strides although the CL win alludes them. I do think Pep has a weakness in his CV in that he needs a certain type of team/club/resources to succeed but at the same time Klopp has not gone anywhere he'd be instantly under the gun either. I do think building a team is harder than improving a well oiled machine, which is fair to Klopp, but the gap in trophy count is enormous too.
Anyone else irked by this media circus of mutual respect, mutual respect, mutual respect, I mean yeah, we get it, both have mutual respect for each other but they don't have to keep beating the drum about it.
You're overreacting.
I don't think that's what hes saying. Pep has had a tendency to be over aggressive or trying too hard sometimes with his tactics/ selections in big games or at least that's the impression people get.
But how else would we know unless they told us every 20 minutes?
I see what you did there. Well played!
I also agree with the rest of your post. Klopp still shades it for me. Winning in Europe counts for a lot.
That's fair part of me was expecting him to pull out some obscure formation from the 50s or something daft too.
Having a good rival not only makes you better but also makes your victories feel more valuable. Whichever team that ends up winning the league will enjoy it way more than anybody at Bayern or PSG.
The second half was masterful from Klopp and is why he's clearly the better manager. Pep has the money and team to blow anybody away but Klopp, again, saw the weakness and exploited it at half time. Considering the difference in budgets and how he has assembled the team, it's very impressive.
Eh? City were the better team in the second half as well, and the first half should've been an annihilation.
No they weren't. City blew Liverpool away first half but in the second Liverpool addressed everything that was wrong and got the upper hand.
I feel that ucl semi final in 2017/18 set the tone for their rivalry and even though City has been at times clearly better they still have that choke in them like in the infamous twooo gameI imagine after a comprehensive win for guardiola he'll eventually get the better of klopp most of the time.
Liverpool didn't get the upper hand at all.
Despite a good 15 minutes to start the half, City looked in control again and should have won it if Mahrez knew how to finish vs Liverpool.
Pep has figured Klopp out.
The last few times they've played, City have comprehensively looked the better side.
What weakness? They literally caught City napping just like the chance they had in the first half that Walker cut out.
In their last 9 meetings it's City 4 Draw 4 Liverpool 1. One of the draws City won on penos (in tte community Shield).
Liverpool have beaten City once in the last 4 years (Twice in the last 4 years and 1 day). I don't think you'll find a better record against Klopps Liverpool anywhere else. Liverpool are actually due a couple of wins.
I agree that city hse gotten the better of Liverpool these past meetings but it still is a very cagey affair. I feel it could get much more comfortable for guardiola the way it for Fergie constantly getting the better of Wenger.