I think it'll be a disaster if we go into this half heartedly. As in, we support you but you can't drop A or sell B.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Bums on a seat, what does that mean?
Ralf will go in the office or you think he shouldn't cause not to impose his questionable failure upon the entire structure of the club?
Murtough knows his stuff and we're bringing Mitchell too.
What structure has Liverpool built for Klopp? It was the same people as before him coming there and it all started from him. Do you remember a team he had when he joined? And compared it to the team he has now. Similar to ETH, he knows what players he needs for his system and he'll work in coordinance with Ralf, Murtough, Fletcher etc.
Similar to Pep, they had football people above him yes but he knew what players he wants and he could change keepers and fullbacks every year until he got it right.
Being tika taka or not is not what a club is now or will be, it's a system a manager will play if tiki taka is even ETH's kind of football which I think it's not.
Direction club has is putting a structure around a manager finally and not giving every decision to Woodward and a manager, no more big time signings just for the sake of it I hope.
Mazraoui to Bayern could collapse or they could end up going for another RB.
Boubacar Kamara has been mooted. He's a mobile DM who apparently wants to play CB so seems kinda perfect. Looks tidy in possession in the comps but I haven't seen Marseille for a full game this year.
Ousmane Dembele would be a fun risk on the right even if half the people here would lose their mind and bringing in another guy with professionalism issues does seems insane. So much talent though. If he stayed healthy and matured as many do in their 20s he'd be our RW for the next 5-7 years.
Nobody has suggested Eriksen because we have Bruno and VDB, so it is probably a non-starter, but he is a former Ajax player who runs all day and would probably be very excited at the chance to play for Ten Hag and United it sounds like from the rumours about him wanting a big team.
Tolisso if healthy, but he never is?
Even Fergie wouldn't berate senior players on the pitch though. Only one I can remember that got a touchline bollocking in his latter years was Jonny Evans vs Milan. I remember Ole being apoplectic with Lingard for not playing the ball forward often enough and its like clockwork for him to prod Wan Bissaka to make forward runs every game when the pitch side microphones were on during the lockdown.
I think the number of outgoings, the usual 2,3 or 4 signings only and unhappy/not fit for purpose players that will have to remain for now, will all equate to a bit of a half baked team. Probably some youngsters will have to be trusted to make up numbers too. It can very easily go wrong next season. But if we build on it again the following summer then in a couple of years then we might have a squad built in ETHs vision.
I just hope the youngsters and the likes of Sancho can have good seasons and bring us some excitement with what is to come. It might be another outside of top 4 finish and there will be dark days where we get turned over by other teams, hopefully people don't turn on the manager when we are in the midst of those moments.
Who is the deep lying playmaker in this year's ajax team?
Do they have one?
Do they have one?
Good post but I'd like to say some things I agree and disagree with
I agree that Liverpool and City have been better at squad building on and off the pitch over the last few years and we've been horrific in that sense.
I however disagree with your notion on Rangnick, Fletcher and Murtough. Firstly Ralf hasn't worked out as a manager nobody denies that but what he'll offer off the pitch made his appointment more worthwhile than Conte permanently or Valverde as Interim/Eventual Permanent hirings as they'd be the equivalent of plastering a band aid over an injury needing surgery. They'd have gotten good short term results with their pragmatic style which suits our squad but everything would have come full circle eventually like it did with Ole/Jose/LVG due to no long term foundations.
Ralf's questionable credentials as a manager also does not in any way equate to his ability as a DOF/Technical Director and you're being incredibly cynical to let on pitch results affect your opinion in that regard because he's unquestionably one of the best in the business in that field with his work at Salzburg and Leipzig. Our current football committe are VERY lucky to have someone like him to seek advice from because this club desperately needs a proven squad builder to fix the mess they've created over the years.
Murtough and Fletcher may not have the experience(yet) in your eyes but go take a look at the Technical Directors at Chelsea and AC Milan(it's Cech and Maldini) who both had no prior experience before being hired and tell me how it's different with Fletcher. Murtough has done a lot of good work with the Academy and Women's Team behind the scenes. Michael Edwards of Liverpool had no experience in his role before being promoted to be their DOF at a time when they were in massive turmoil needing the "best in class" see how it's worked. So far they've made good football decisions with Rangnick over obvious Woodward appointments like Conte/Valverde, Ten Hag over The Glazers wet dream in Pochettino and overhauling the Scouting Department/Recruitment Department. It's being helped that Arnold isn't a control freak like Woodward and he's actually delegating football responsibility to football people and now looking to add a Deputy DOF to work with Ralf, Fletcher and Murtough that's a much better football structure than Woodward/Judge. Time of course will tell if it works and if the football committee implement everything correctly across every facet from first team, women's team, academy etc but this is a good starting point.
It's also unequivocally cynical to ask how Ten Hag is different to Jose/LVG who were both past their primes and who's styles of football were way behind the modern game when Ten Hag is one of the most progressive managers in the world currently. Play style is at odds with the current squad but that's a plus, this current squad needs to be ripped up and gutted because they're a bunch of spineless wankers who don't deserve to wear the Utd shirt. We need a modern manager who will come and build that squad in his OWN image not the player's image and Ten Hag's football is the closest their is to Liverpool/City's. Unlike previous managers Ten Hag will have football people to work with(better than Woodward/Judge) and with so many players set to leave the carte blanche to rebuild the squad the way he seems fit if it's believed The Glazers have had his demands written down and agreed on paper. Things are bleak at Utd right now especially with LFC/City so good nobody can deny that but this is the first step those at Utd have taken in trying to modernize things on and off the pitch and even if things aren't good right now it's worth putting a little bit of faith in and seeing how it works over time.
He’s now bringing haller with him in summer. Might aswell just bring the whole Ajax team at this point
sauce?
Just google haller. There’s lots of it today
Give a proper source? Google can get anything real, fake, credible and everything in between.
It's just like us to get the Ajax manager, get excited about who he'd bring along, only for Gravenberch and Mazraoui to go to Bayern and us to get Haller.
Also according to Google, Bayern will replace Lewandowski with Haller. Don't pay much notice to the links, he'll more than likely stay at Ajax.
Respectfully disagree. Rashford and Martial have a mental block right now. Martial in particular has been treated badly during his time at the club, and seems to have had a rough time personally this season but if ETH gets them on side and they get there heads right this summer they can both go on to greatness.( granted - big if) I have a feeling the fans may not allow this however.
AWB is a curious case because he hasn’t actually done much wrong other than not be the player everybody wants him to be (I.e - Trent or Cancelo) He is still a good defender and offers a certain defensive element that none of our other fullbacks do.
Personally I would be surprised if any of these 3 leave the club this summer. Can’t see it.
I agree with what you saying, but I truly believe that the most important thing ETH needs is not time and money, but the full backing from the club's management, players need to know that if ETH is unhappy with them, then their time at the club is over, the player-power dynamic has to be dismantled and all the drama and the cliques must eliminated, and replaced with a culture of professionalism.
Pep & Klopp operate in a professional environment, and no player under them thinks they can feck with the manager, and no one ever questions the decisions made.
Yesterday, a 50m Sterling and 100m Grealish were in the bench and academy grad Foden started, you won't hear a story about Sterling and Grealish complaining about being dropped in a huge game.
wow, you are easily influenced by a nothing post.It's just like us to get the Ajax manager, get excited about who he'd bring along, only for Gravenberch and Mazraoui to go to Bayern and us to get Haller.
Let's try this, we are getting Haaland and Mpabbe next season.
I’ve barely read a post on here thinking any such thing though? Most are advocating at least 2-3 years and a massive overhaul of the squad (10+ players in RR’s own words). Seems we’re “only” likely to sign 3-4 players (£100-£150m) this window, so that’ll be 3-4 windows to get the squad in shape, IMO.
What we are hoping for though, is some sort of clear identity as the season progresses, even if it means finishing outside the top 4 again (hopefully not as the other top 4 contenders are as erratic as us).
Imagine going from Lewa to Haller. Depressing
Then the players downtool and the fans blame the manager for not motivating the players. After a while the manager gets sacked and we hire lampard as manager because the players "respect" him.
Thing is, we are almost as City a club with almost* infinity budget, as we have spent as much as City and spent on wages close to their. Just our spending has been very frantic and had more misses than hits. As much as you may feel depressed over the time of Woodward's tenure, it's over and we should do with plausible deniability over the capability what the new leadership can offer - give them time and some leeway to build something with a manager who has shown his capability to build a successful side and have really his own face to the team.
Give some time and show some support to the club you love and let the people do their thing.
Rashford has always had glaring holes in his game and some of them make him unlikely to suit ETH. Hes work shy currently, whether that is because he is demotivated or thinks himself above it I don't know. Hes selfish, always looking for how he can score rather than what will result in a goal for the team. Hes not very technically gifted. Hes always relied on pace and explosiveness to beat a man outside of some nice skills but hes not a pass and move sort of players, probably because he is always wanting to score himself.
Martials biggest failing is that hes simply lazy. He appears lazy on the pitch and I would be amazed if ETH can persuade him to work hard enough for the team to justify his place. A much better player than Rashford but his attitude has always been in question. Seems very fragile mentally and doesn't have much fight in him.
Hes not a curious case at all. The only time he passes for a good defender is when his sole task is to defend deep when the opposition are in front of us trying to break us down. He is also very good at tackling when the conditions are right. Positionally he is crap. His work rate is crap. Offensively he is crap. Technically he is crap. The number of times this season he has been caught out of position or lost his man because he is jogging instead of sprinting is unforgivable.
No top team has a RB that is at their best when the team is under the kosh and defending with the entire team. Thats the sort of player who (unsurprisingly) suits a lower quality team.
Rashford won't go because the high ups won't let him. Hes still their blue eyed boy from Manchester and he will be a thorn in our side for years I imagine. Martial will probably be moved on either this summer or next and AWB will go as soon as we can find a buyer. I would love for Rashford to sort himself out but none of his actions over the past couple of years suggest he has the mentality to do it.
I think that Rashford and Martial don't deserve another chance (or however you want to describe that situation), because well, they feel that club itself and the staff is the problem, not them. The most reasonable thing would be to politely tell them that there are other clubs where grass is greener and they're put on the transfer market.
Rashford has his off the pitch fanbase already who will follow him even when he plays for a small club, Martial was depressed because when Zlatan came, then his no9 shirt was given to Zlatan (it's a number and accept that Martial isn't bigger than Zlatan, so swallow up your ego and prove yourself on the pitch). If there are players whose mentality is so weak and mental strength so fragile then maybe United isn't the club to play for.
It's so, so hard to fix the mentality problem and it's cheaper and more reasonable to sell all the sulkers, non-believers, lazyboys and unmotivated players whose issues are way deeper than just a head let down because we aren't winning. If motivational issue is temporary, then it's fine - a new, fresh coach with competent backroom can help this out easily, but it seems to me that numerous players have the mentality issue so deep that they need a new club.
It's reasonable to forget all these "United DNA" and "Academy product" terms for a few seasons, because it affects the visibility to see things more rationally and facts-wise. No player should be treated better because they are from Manchester or have risen from academy, if they don't show their extra grit or willpower on the pitch. Only thing that matters is what you do on the pitch and this club and its fans must understand that we aren't a club of nostalgia or a retirement home, but this is a club which has a tendency to win trophies. And trophies are won only on the pitch.
Rashford has his off the pitch fanbase already who will follow him even when he plays for a small club, Martial was depressed because when Zlatan came, then his no9 shirt was given to Zlatan (it's a number and accept that Martial isn't bigger than Zlatan, so swallow up your ego and prove yourself on the pitch). If there are players whose mentality is so weak and mental strength so fragile then maybe United isn't the club to play for.
It's so, so hard to fix the mentality problem and it's cheaper and more reasonable to sell all the sulkers, non-believers, lazyboys and unmotivated players whose issues are way deeper than just a head let down because we aren't winning. If motivational issue is temporary, then it's fine - a new, fresh coach with competent backroom can help this out easily, but it seems to me that numerous players have the mentality issue so deep that they need a new club.
It's reasonable to forget all these "United DNA" and "Academy product" terms for a few seasons, because it affects the visibility to see things more rationally and facts-wise. No player should be treated better because they are from Manchester or have risen from academy, if they don't show their extra grit or willpower on the pitch. Only thing that matters is what you do on the pitch and this club and its fans must understand that we aren't a club of nostalgia or a retirement home, but this is a club which has a tendency to win trophies. And trophies are won only on the pitch.
So its impossible to read Redcafe before be a member then ?You joined in May 21
And no, no-one got excited by that video, it’s was used from day 1 to take the piss out of Ole.
So now its impossible to read the redcafe before you become a member ?You joined in May 21
And no, no-one got excited by that video, it’s was used from day 1 to take the piss out of Ole.
anyway i cant remember if it was here or Facebook but clearly a lot of fans got exited about it.
Like when we went from Ronaldo to Obertan
The pessimists on here are going to be made to look very silly next season.
You only have to look at Newcastle to see what a new manager and a couple of new players can do.
Trippier was injured after a couple of games so hasn't really had an impact and they bought a left back, a centre back and a midfielder and gone from being bottom of league to only Liverpool picking up more points in 2022 (yes Newcastle have won more points than City in 2022).
Ten Hag is an absolute enormous upgrade on Rangnick and sprinkle in a few midfielders and we'll finish comfortably top 4 and might even finish above City, Liverpool or Chelsea if they have a bad seasons.
You only have to look at Newcastle to see what a new manager and a couple of new players can do.
Trippier was injured after a couple of games so hasn't really had an impact and they bought a left back, a centre back and a midfielder and gone from being bottom of league to only Liverpool picking up more points in 2022 (yes Newcastle have won more points than City in 2022).
Ten Hag is an absolute enormous upgrade on Rangnick and sprinkle in a few midfielders and we'll finish comfortably top 4 and might even finish above City, Liverpool or Chelsea if they have a bad seasons.
Thank you.
I have been saying this to my mates who say we are going to be rubbish next season. I responded saying, look at us now, one of the worst teams in the PL and we are in the shout for top 4.
A coach will come in, get a pre season and the current players will improve 35/30% which will be good enough to beat certain teams. Add 3/5 players and the whole team will play alot better.
I can see us playing well next season with areas to improve ofcourse. There are various reasons, this season players are struggling. Its hard to get 10 players who know they wont be here next season to put their all.
Going into next season, we will have players who want to be here and will have to put the work in, rather than players there for the sake of it.
People are saying that we cannot change multiple players within a year and be successful. Celtic started the Old Firm game in January with 9 players who were not at the club last season and are currently top of the Scottish league. If they win at the weekend they will sow the league up.
I fully expect lots of "farmers league doesn't count" posts in reply but the principal is very similar, only the price tags change. And bear in mind one of our multi million pounds hot prospects Amad Diallo is struggling to make an impact in the scottish farmers league.
If the will is there for radical change it can happen quickly when required, look at the job Patrick Viera has done at Palace with a large turnover of players.
I fully expect lots of "farmers league doesn't count" posts in reply but the principal is very similar, only the price tags change. And bear in mind one of our multi million pounds hot prospects Amad Diallo is struggling to make an impact in the scottish farmers league.
If the will is there for radical change it can happen quickly when required, look at the job Patrick Viera has done at Palace with a large turnover of players.
Not really. Edson Alvarez and Gravenberch. Alvarez being a bit more defensive.
I'd take a top 5 finish next season, with consistency and an actual playing style being showed. Expecting to go from this shitshow to a "banked" top 4/title challenge/cup victory would be extremely naive. The club have made plenty of wrong decisions in recent years - we finally seem to be making ones in the right direction. Long may this continue.
How are United one of the worst teams in the PL? You might perform shite, but you have way more quality in your squad than the majority of the league.
Not really, the farmers league argument does hold weight unfortunately. The premier league is considered the toughest league to adapt to, so you're likely to have a higher miss rate with signings compared to signing for a second rate league. If we were to sign 9 players in the summer, chances are quite a few would be considered busts. I can't think of a team in the top flight that's successfully signed a boatful of players who were mostly successful. Spurs's flurry of signings following Bale's departure were mostly flops, City and Chelsea had to sieve through a sea of flops when they did their sugardaddy spending speedrun, and thinking back to our own busy summers (such as 2014/15) almost all those signings were massive flops, or underwhelming at best.
Just rewatching a documentary where SAF explains his decision to drop and afterwards get rid of Jim Leighton (with whom he spent years at Aberdeen) for Les Sealey for the FA cup finale against Crystal Palace.
I really hope ETH can be as ruthless and get rid of or at least drop some high-profile underperforming players in our team...
I really hope ETH can be as ruthless and get rid of or at least drop some high-profile underperforming players in our team...
I'd argue Daley Blind if anybody from what I've seen of them, though I might be wrong in how I've analysed this.
Edson Alvarez has technically taken Frenkie De Jong's spot but he's a very different player, more a holding-type midfielder than the playmaker De Jong was.
But they've moved Blind to LB instead of Tagliafico and seem to find ways to create time and space for him on the ball to play progressive longer passes.
The team as a whole seems to work a bit differently from the 18/19 side which is actually one of the more impressive things about ten Hag's reign for me. Having lost some key players from that side he's not replaced them like-for-like but instead switched some of the roles and built another competitive team in a slightly different mould.
Yeah, he’s done an astounding job of lifting Crystal Palace from their lowly position of 14th last season to 14th this season.
I didnt mean the players we have are the worst. The way we are playing, the form of the players, attitude is the worst in the PL. In the last 8 weeks, we have been the worst team.
Quality is very subjective. Look at how Everton put a fight against Liverpool, or a Burnley. United barely score these days and look like they have no midfield or defence.
Ajax play more with a 10 this season with Berghuis. They don't have a deep laying playmaker anymore. Closest is Gravenberch, but he's more of an 8 and wouldn't call him a playmaker.
We'll struggle to find buyers for Martial and AWB. I'm sure we'd accept 10m for each but it's their wages that no club which could use these players will be a barrier. And then there are clubs like Newcastle which can pay anything but would aim much higher than those two.
AWB has the heart but struggles on account of ability and there's no easy fix for lack of ability. Martial has the ability but lacks the heart. Can ETH -- who is no "messiah"
-- elevate a player like Martial? I doubt it, but I wouldn't rule it out. We have a Martial thread but my two cents on Martial is that he's suffered from playing under three managers whose tactics made playing for United miserable. Van Gaal...excruciating to watch and probably moreso to play under. Jose, enough said. Ole was fun for a while but the total absence of any tactics left a player like Martial wonder WTF is this shit.Tweet
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"To get in control" that does not sound good, at all.
It really depends how the season goes, but usually there is a big gap between top 2 and the rest or first and the rest(like last season). Title challenge is obviously out of the question, cup victory I wouldn't say it's impossible, but 4th needs to be our main target.
Any finish bellow 4th would be a disappointment regardless of playing style. I mean what playing style would we adopt and be happy with if we finish 5th or 6th ?