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Why are Pep and Klopp so good?
- Thread starter PeteManic
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Fergie pretty much said a Guardiola side was the best he’d ever faced himself so I dunno about that…
The management around them ensure they get the players that fit their system.
Pep has always had a financial benefit above any competition he has faced bar maybe Real Madrid when he managed in Spain. Real were particularly weak around 2006 though.
Pep has always had a financial benefit above any competition he has faced bar maybe Real Madrid when he managed in Spain. Real were particularly weak around 2006 though.
I agree that the backroom structure also contributes hugely to success in modern circumstances. In the specific case of Liverpool though, I think they struck gold with Klopp; I remember reading from places, for example by @Adnan here, that it was Klopp who placed his trust in the likes of Michael Edwards, who had been until then been kept at arm's length by Rodgers. If that is the case, then I am curious to see the day Klopp leaves and how that set-up at Liverpool will handle the succession plan.
Strong personalities, they stick to what they believe in. Most managers waver, confuse things.
The simple desire to do it. I'd imagine there are other managers out there who could win more trophies if they were willing to move to certain clubs. But I'm guessing some put life over football.
But luck also plays a huge part. Pep gettimg the Barca job with that group of players. Liverpool getting £150 million for Coutinho enabling them to buy in a way they otherwise couldn't etc etc.
The simple desire to do it. I'd imagine there are other managers out there who could win more trophies if they were willing to move to certain clubs. But I'm guessing some put life over football.
But luck also plays a huge part. Pep gettimg the Barca job with that group of players. Liverpool getting £150 million for Coutinho enabling them to buy in a way they otherwise couldn't etc etc.
it's like asking why is Ole so bad - he simply is. the same way Klopp and Pep are simply great. they want it more and they work harder than most to achieve their goals. you don't look at their players and ask yourself whether they ever train like we do when we see our players on the pitch. they don't tolerate laziness. their teams most likely don't have players dancing after losing a game. also, to reach their level, I think you have to take losses personally in certain degree. it's all about personality in my opinion and it's the same with players. you can see fire and determination in their players that you rarely see in Pogba or Rash for example. they simply hate losing.
Of course that side was the best ive seen, if not for them we'd have a couple more cl's to our name. That aside im on the longevity and continued success of saf that is yet to be surpassed.
If pep hangs on another decade sweeping away titles then i'd say he's at the top with saf.
Pep has impressed me, there was that period in bayern and early city where I thought people had figured him out, but he is as strong as ever.
His peak achievements are still weaker than those of prime mou in my humble opinion, but his longevity puts him at top (mou was world class from 2003 to 2014 while pep has continually been so since 2008) he also doesn't have that third season meltdown.
Hopefully our hag puts an end to this, i also feel this has to be pep's last club football job as there isn't anywhere left to go unless he throws away all his loyalties and goes to Newcastle.
(Said won't go back to Barca nad Madrid is a no no, Italy doesn't have the financial muscle anymore and he already coached bayern and I don't think they want him back. Psg is also option but doesn't look like it)
His peak achievements are still weaker than those of prime mou in my humble opinion, but his longevity puts him at top (mou was world class from 2003 to 2014 while pep has continually been so since 2008) he also doesn't have that third season meltdown.
Hopefully our hag puts an end to this, i also feel this has to be pep's last club football job as there isn't anywhere left to go unless he throws away all his loyalties and goes to Newcastle.
(Said won't go back to Barca nad Madrid is a no no, Italy doesn't have the financial muscle anymore and he already coached bayern and I don't think they want him back. Psg is also option but doesn't look like it)
I think you are right.
You don't really need to ask with Pep? Infinite money and a system of play that near guarantees league titles.
Klopp has been fortunate, few injuries apart from VVD last year, their signings have pretty much all worked, which is at least partly luck and they're also getting "help" to keep up with City imo. League would be way too dull otherwise. Can they keep it up? Let's see if Salah stays and how long Klopp does too.
Klopp has been fortunate, few injuries apart from VVD last year, their signings have pretty much all worked, which is at least partly luck and they're also getting "help" to keep up with City imo. League would be way too dull otherwise. Can they keep it up? Let's see if Salah stays and how long Klopp does too.
Good post, in the end of the day , man managing is still the most important part of football, hell hag said it in his interview (something about being a physiologist and knowing his players attitude).
Most successful managers are charismatic and smart , its no coincidence.
Their doctors are amazing
They don't carry players and all their best players are at their peak. How many players in their 30s do they both have playing in their best 11s? There's also no Ronaldo, Messi or Neymar in their teams, they don't fit the pressing or cohesive system. The biggest stars on either team are probably De Bruyne and Salah. De Bruyne is the ultimate team player as well. This is why I disagree with the notion of 'if X star player was in their team, they'd score 50 goals'. That's not how these teams work. The very reason why they're so successful in this model is that they don't have players like that. Look at Jota and Diaz for Liverpool so far. They buy hungry players with something to prove.
Pep has always gone to ready made teams or teams with a lot of very good and world class players, then has also been allowed to spend more money than any other manager on top of that.
Obviously when he has top players he has them playing great football, but he has always ensured he has been selective of the club he chooses along with being backed with unlimited funds.
Excluding this season which could end the drought, he has not won the CL since 2012. Which basically explains it, Barca were on paper the best team in La Liga when he became manager but also spent a lot of money. Bayern were by far the biggest, best and richest team in the Bundesliga. Man City were not the best team in the PL but were definitely top 3, but also had some very good players that had won the PL a few years prior, then was allowed to spend more money than any other manager by far.
Not winning the CL in 10 years but always winning loads of domestic cups is pretty much because of choosing the best and richest team or one of the two.
Klopp is a superior manager and I don't think there should even be a debate over that.
Obviously when he has top players he has them playing great football, but he has always ensured he has been selective of the club he chooses along with being backed with unlimited funds.
Excluding this season which could end the drought, he has not won the CL since 2012. Which basically explains it, Barca were on paper the best team in La Liga when he became manager but also spent a lot of money. Bayern were by far the biggest, best and richest team in the Bundesliga. Man City were not the best team in the PL but were definitely top 3, but also had some very good players that had won the PL a few years prior, then was allowed to spend more money than any other manager by far.
Not winning the CL in 10 years but always winning loads of domestic cups is pretty much because of choosing the best and richest team or one of the two.
Klopp is a superior manager and I don't think there should even be a debate over that.
I don't think it comes down to luck when he's now done it with two clubs.
Pep will never manage another English club, he said that himself numerous times. Italy is an option for him - he played there at Brescia and Roma, knows Italian perfectly and is aware of the football culture there. Now where exactly is a difficult question. Juventus wanted him several times. AC Milan also. It will be funny to go to Inter and be successfull at Jose's club or to succeed Mourinho himself at Roma.. I dont see him managing Napoli or Lazio but who knows.. International football is his next very step after City in my opinion but Italy still will be an option for his career in the future.
It doesn't matter if Salah stays or goes, they'll just find a proper replacement for him. They're in that sort of the moment when everything goes right for them and deservedly so.
In regards to the OP's question, I think the answer is pretty obvious, as one poster above already mentioned it. Pep and Klopp are part of a generation that has seen both sides of the human behavior in the last 20 to 30 years, the "we're men" generation and these days pussies and Instagram/attention loving pricks. So, they're very good at managing their players as human beings which, in this sport, will always overcome the technical side of it.
Added to that, they both play a particular system, with particular players and they're absolutely ruthless with the ones that don't fit in. Also, they don't bend over to clubs, which is the most important part of being a manager these days, as clubs are more oriented to make money than to win things.
It's not rocket science, it's just how a modern manager should be.
Football is a coaches game, you just need to look at the list of league winning managers. that's why we can't compete, we haven't had an elite manager in his prime since SAF.
I'm well aware of the Italy link but here's the thing, as good as manager he is , he would want to compete in Europe, and those teams simply don't have the budget for it , the best and most capable of them lot, juve is in a mess and frankly if he was to go there he would need to overhaul the entire squad, just not possible with their finances.
However, I could see him go to ac millan , if they did actually brought in their bahraini sugar daddies.
Not sure if Italy has the money and prestige for Guardiola these days. Juventus perhaps but they'd have to pull out all the stops and Guardiola would have to take a pay cut himself, no way Juve offer more money than City will, when the time comes.
Pep - He's bald.
Klopp - The veneers.
Klopp - The veneers.
Even after those players have proven themselves, they still want to go another level up and play for team. Its crazy to see Salah and KDB doing their defensive duties with same enthusiasm.
Our players after achieving something think they are untouchables and care only about their image. (I am looking at you Rashford.) It is sad to see our talented players go waste like that.
Pep - usually has technical players on another level to his opposition either via inheritance or spending 1 billion. His ways would not work without having superior players to every opponent.
Klopp - German Sir Alex Ferguson
Klopp - German Sir Alex Ferguson
Klopp has had multiple + 90pt seasons
For some reason I have this feeling inside me this guy wants to ruin our legacy. He wants to beat the treble our greatest ever season putting them on 7 ucl and us way behind them. Then he wants to go past 20. Then I feel he will leave. There is talks he wants to extend. And I think that is scary
PEDs and Asthma. That’s why.
I could see Pep ending up at AC Milan if the take-over from Bahrain goes through.
This all day long.
This is what instantly makes me laugh when people think some players fit in like a last piece to a puzzle when they are no where near moulded to be that shape, size or ability.
We have been conned and fallen for the "Pep wants Player A" whilst being linked to United and then going all out to stop Pep getting a player that would never ever get in their team.
Financial and biological doping. Sure the players are very good and are coached very well but they maintain their level week in week out, game after game, in the league and cups because of their large squads, unbelievable intensity and unbelievable lack of injuries.
They both heavily rely on analytics. I think that’s no coincidence. Especially Klopp has mastered the craft of analytics.
Haven't we got enough Pep/Klopp ball licking threads?
Klopp's methods "didn't work" until he was allowed to sign the at the time best GK, CB and DM for the best part of £200m.
This is a good point as well.
At least it was still jam. When Ole was Scarlett's agent she would frequently sneak into my bedroom and smear marmite all over herself. Personally I love marmite but my wife doesn't, and due to our open relationship with RiP we collectively agreed that if we weren't all involved then no one could be.
I know what you're thinking and I've got that information as well. Under her other agents;
Moyes - Vinegar
Vangle - Skittles peanut butter
Mourinho - the screams of a thousand trapped souls
This is just the first thing that pops into my mind about Klopp. He genuinely loves people. In my world that is a huge advantage. It might sound trivial, but it's not
They both have clear ideas for how to build teams, and what players are required for that, and operate at clubs that are fully bought into their respective philosophies, with top level football people working behind the scenes.
In Pep's case, it also helps spending more money than any other manager in the history of football.
Klopp is prodigious, the best manager out there by a mile in my book, and it sickens me that he's at Liverpool.
In Pep's case, it also helps spending more money than any other manager in the history of football.
Klopp is prodigious, the best manager out there by a mile in my book, and it sickens me that he's at Liverpool.
Obviously it is due to multiple reasons, superb tacticians and building excellent entire teams around them is part of it.
But the man management is incredible. Great example from just last night:
But the man management is incredible. Great example from just last night:
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Alisson ans especially VVD fees are heavily inflated by the Coutinho transfer (and the weird VVD bribing saga), don't think that any club were willing to pay those prices they paid at the time, and I don't think any person would consider VVD and Fabinho anywhere near the best players in their positions when they were bought respectively (didn't people mock Liverpool for the VVD fee back then?). Kinda similar to how your world-record GK Kepa was overpaid even at that time because of the Courtois transfer, no?
And it's not like he didn't make the CL final and win the BL ahead of us a few years before that with a Dortmund squad that cost less than 50m to build either...
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All round Jose is so far a better manager than Klopp. Jose has won a treble with Inter, leagues in multiple countries(Along with retaining a PL which Klopp has yet to do) and won the CL with Porto.
We will have to wait to see how this season pans out but in terms of British football, I would have Wenger a head of Klopp. Wenger transform the game more, has won more trophies(Including more league titles)and of course going unbeaten for a season, also the building Arsenal into a modern football club.
Klopp is clearly a great manager but I find his achievements at Dortmund far more impressive than what he has done at Pool.
because he inherited a team in 7th. He got to 2 finals off the bat.
Who is the best DMC?
Did he not get CL before he got the keeper?
When the last time we got to the CL final?
Did he not succeed with Dortmund?