actually the treble team won three cups. England European cup final team won as many cups as Ole won as manager with us
The John Murtough Era
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Aren't most of the roles like Sporting director, technical director given to ex-players or via internal promotion? At least that's how I remember it.
Watch the game. After 20 minutes Italy was calling all the shots
Yeah but you've got a knack for being a miserable negative king of spin. Give it a go.
so you do admit that there's a difference between winning alot and winning nothing right?
Are you talking about Italy? The game that went to pens?
You jump from point to point so fast it's dizzying.
In a previous post you implied the England team of yesteryear were better than the current crop we have. I responded by stating that we've at least reached finals & semi finals with these players. Then you decided to diminish those 'achievements' instead of acknowledging that they have actually progressed further than the previous teams.
Pointless replying to you when you just move the goalposts. Nobody will debate with you if you carry on this way, it's very tedious.
We've all seen the game. After 20 minutes it was mostly about Italy. That despite England being at home and Italy having, well, a very ordinary side.
Most of the big clubs have people associated with their club running football departments. Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona, Real Madrid etc. Guardiola and Txiki were given top jobs at Barca with very little coaching experience or in Txik's case he had zero experience of even working on the structural side of the club.
You’re just waffling at this point mate and seem very angry about nothing.
Id log off for a bit.
My point is that this means nothing. The current England squad had done better because the level of football in most countries has gone down. Italy's squad is a pale shadow of itself and they made it to the Euro final that year as well. Actually they won it in a convincing way despite playing against England at Wembley
Ah. Confirmed?
I am not really angry at all. I had accepted United's decline. I find it hilarious to see people having confidence at this lot despite the many mistakes they keep making. But hey I am used to that. Ole at the wheel and his great rebuilt filled with United DNA and all that.
I might need to go drink some paint or something to help forget this interaction.
Just ask any Italian, Argentinian or Brazilian fan whether their national side is anywhere near to the greats of the past or the teams they had during the time Beckham, Scholes and co used to play
Yeah, somehow at Manutd it's called job for the boys, owner stooges.
I'll send them a DM.
Can you explain why the quality of club football is the highest it has ever been, while apparently the level of football has reduced?
Could it be, perhaps, that you’re talking bollocks, and those countries you name look at these teams as not as good purely because they’re no longer able to rack them up on a flat deck and instead face “minnows” that are very capable of giving it back
Italy had the ball but they were barely doing anything with it and draw from a set piece.
They were better but it was very far from a hammering.
You should add that they’ve all got GCSEs
First of all I am talking about national football here not club football which is different. I have little knowledge about SA leagues but I can tell you about the EPL and the Serie A. The reason to that is complicated but to simplify a very complex argument its down to
a- its easier to buy players from abroad then to actually develop them.
b- kids aren't as stupid as they once were. They won't stick around unless they are played (think of Sancho but also kids like Pogba (France), Rossi (Italy) etc). Thus more and more clubs are finding it a poorer return of investment in producing kids
c-local talent is expensive in most top leagues. That means that talent from traditionally big nations (football wise) are finding it more difficult to get at the top clubs who then can expose them to top level football (ex CL)
The problem is that fans don't compare us to big clubs like Bayern, Barca, Liverpool or Bayern when it comes to the structural side of a football club. But instead they want us to replicate what is happening at the financially doped up clubs who are bank rolled by nation states or very wealthy men who bank roll the Red Bull clubs.
Exactly, people praise Liverpool but forget that Edwards was promoted from their recruitment team to DoF, also he was part of the team when Liverpool owners were getting lot of shit for not spending money.
I know results are shit and we are not in a position where we should be or hope to be, that doesn't mean we have to be cynical about everything.
considering the last decade, not sure what else it should be called
So all this is a masterplan to make money for Glazers and everyone is involved in this?
“How every club is run” works.
"How not to run a football club" also works.
Liverpool and Michael Edwards in particular is a great example of a person within the structure that was part of failed teams on the structural side before he and his team excelled under Jurgen Klopp. And the Liverpool fans at the time were extremely critical of him, with Edwards being widely ridiculed.
And i'd just like to add that it's not the international mens game that we should dissect when talking about someone like O'Boyle, whose background pertains to developing player, coaching and structural processes. And in O'Boyle's case we have to look at youth football and what his contribution may have potentially led to. And the England youth teams have won the world cup at u17 and u20 level, whilst also adding a u19 European Championship to the list in the last 5 years.
It sure has fecked Bayern Munich up!
You mean the one club league?
Do you actually think Bayern's structure is poor or are you just moving the goalposts again?
I think its very difficult to assess their structure considering that they can easily outcompete and out finance their rivals.
I dunno, never seen insiders being able to solve problems like that.
A players hire A players; B players hire C players and all that. Given the state of the club now, I wouldn't be surprised if we were mediocre in many different areas.
Ronaldo's (or was it Mata?) comments about club needing to be best in class at every level, recent complaints about the state of Carrington, OT roof leaks etc. all point to that.
I hope the issue is as simple as recruitment. That's a much easier problem to solve than just having mediocrity across the club.
I think that's a bit of a cop-out. Yes they do have it their own way a bit but they're either a well-run club or they're not.
Its more of a bit of a cop out. I am sure that even the current Manchester United can win major honours in let's say the SPL.
Bayern compete and succeed at the champions league level, so they've been doing something right structurally, and also when it comes to implementing a vision on how to apply themselves on the pitch.
Thank you. That's my thinking too.
Ok then.
My point is that there's more room for making mistakes with a financially dominant league whose got like 6-7 great games per season (including CL games) as opposed to a club whose not the financial top boy anymore and whose competing in an ultra competitive league were each result count. If lets say Bayern fecks up in 1-2 transfer windows then they would probably still win the Bundesliga. On the other hand if United does the same mistake then there's the risk of ending 7th place.
Bayern also have the luxury that they can almost cherry pick any player in their league. That's acts as a double wham as by doing so they strengthen their side with proven Bundesliga players while also weaken their direct rivals in a substantial way. Imagine if United are able to just go and pick Kane from Spurs, De Bruyne from City, Rice from West Ham + Van Dijk, Arnold Trent and Salah from Liverpool. We would probably win the EPL this year or the next.
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