Which post-Fergie manager, given 5 years in charge, would have done the best?

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
52,710
The only reason it was painfully boring was the players. When he found someone that could carry the ball ourt from midfield in Lingard it started to get better. Remember our frontline had a very young Rashford and Martial in it. Again we didn’t recruit well or give the manager what he wanted, not to mention he pretty much said in every press conference or post game performance that the intensity and pace of the passing needed to improve.

Just some rubbish the CAF started spouting that then became gospel that his football was old, doesn’t want us not trying penetrating passes. I mean at its heart it’s pretty much the basis of all the good modern teams.

To me given more time and a summer where he actually got his targets we’d be in a much better position now.
I've expunged his dreadfully dull stuff from my mind mostly, but I'm pretty sure his "Philosophy" was to only shoot when it was a very high chance of scoring.
I'm not sure what the stats say, but we seemed to score very few goals, but a high percentage of shots!

But every home game seemed to be 0-0 at half time, and you count the shots on target with fingers on one hand usually.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
13,615
The same one who DID DO the best - Mourinho.

Won 2 trophies, finished 2nd and wasn’t backed.

If your owners had backed him he’d have got rid of Pogba (for money), Martial and created a miserly, tough Utd that would’ve ground out a handful of trophies - possibly a CL imo.

Not that any of you will see it that way!
Mourinho nosedived the plane into the volcano and he had to be sacked, as he was by the clubs which employed him before and after United. But that’s not to suggest your factual observations aren’t true.

He had us playing tumescent football that was antithetical to everything United supporters want to see from the players. Speaking only for myself, I’d rather see us lose out on a trophy playing to win matches on the front foot rather winning trophies playing on the back foot hoping not to lose matches.

And Mourinho’s transfer acquisitions were quite poor, almost disastrous, to be honest. And if I’m not mistaken, he also wanted Maguire, who it’s fair to say now wasn’t exactly a shrewd acquisition by Mourinho’s successor.

There was nowhere with Mourinho to go but further down.
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Jose fans are weird. Yes he did ok initially, but there's no point swooning over someone who painted the house only to burn it down a few weeks later. I don't get the love for him at all.
I’m not a ‘Jose fan’. If you read my post properly, you’d see I clearly said he’d have Utd playing ‘miserly football’.

Not exactly ‘swooning’, is it?

The question was / is IF BACKED which of Utd’s managers would have brought the most success, and my answer is Mourinho.

He’s the most objectively successful Utd manager post Fergie so it’s not exactly controversial.

I don’t like him or dislike him - I don’t care about him. I’m just answering the question.
 

dr.twinny

Full Member
Joined
May 12, 2009
Messages
1,917
Location
Jamaica
LVG with a proper DOF and a solid recruitment team behind him would have been the ideal scenario.

Mou would be my second pic but I just think the place would have been too toxic with him staying on for more than three years.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Mourinho nosedived the plane into the volcano and he had to be sacked, as he was by the clubs which employed him before and after United. But that’s not to suggest your factual observations aren’t true.

He had us playing tumescent football that was antithetical to everything United supporters want to see from the players. Speaking only for myself, I’d rather see us lose out on a trophy playing to win matches on the front foot rather winning trophies playing on the back foot hoping not to lose matches.

And Mourinho’s transfer acquisitions were quite poor, almost disastrous, to be honest. And if I’m not mistaken, he also wanted Maguire, who it’s fair to say now wasn’t exactly a shrewd acquisition by Mourinho’s successor.

There was nowhere with Mourinho to go but further down.
Dumb logic regardless of which manager we're talking about.
 

decorativeed

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
12,325
Location
Tameside
The only ones who didn’t really get a fair crack were Moyes and Rangnick. The other three had long enough. Moyes made plenty of mistakes but I do wonder how he would’ve fared had he managed to settle into the role.
Badly.
 

Canagel

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
13,888
With financial backing and a good DOF Louis Van Gaal.
Under current model Mourinho.
 

paulscholes18

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
20,111
1) LVG
2) Rangnick

these two give youth a chance and look to build teams for the future which is the best recipe for long term success.

3) Moyes
Showed at Everton he can maintain consistency over a number of years.

4) OGS

5) Jose Mourinho

Short term fix long, term problems. Christ knows what state a club would be in if he was their for 5 years doubt he would have anyone to pick. has been our best manager post Fergie though.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
13,615
Dumb logic regardless of which manager we're talking about.
I hope you’re not suggesting that you’re on board with anti-football, even shitehouse, tactics if it means trophies.

Of course there has to be a balance between attacking football and pragmatism, but Van Gaal and Mourinho brought us football that was literally — and I do mean literally — hideous to watch. What would be the joy of watching grinding, shitehouse football for 90 minutes match after match, month after month, for a few minutes of joy watching a trophy being lifted?

We can’t even just assume without question that anti-football is the sure path to stuffing trophies in the cabinet. That kind of football isn’t what wins trophies today nor was it the kind of football that enabled United to win all those trophies under Ferguson. Mourinho’s tactics were already prehistoric by the time he came to OT and despite the two trophies he won, he was nowhere close to winning PL and CL and his brand of football was hideous to watch and contributed to the toxicity within the squad, who at least I believe were not on board with his shit.
 

MadDogg

Full Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
15,810
Location
Manchester Utd never lose, just run out of time
That mixed bag is everything we've done wrong in a nutshell.

Mkhitaryan is an obvious LVG legacy signing.

Pogba and Sánchez are obvious Woody MU brand signings.

Rest looks quite Mourinho-like in tapping Portugal and previous players.

Maguire would also be a solid and top performing signing in a Mourinho side if you ask me. Also was in an Ole counter-attacking one. Not best suited to more modern styles.

You simply need to know what you are building towards and we haven't had that since Ronaldo left. SAF himself was no longer building jack as he plugged holes rather than make key signings. Whoever came next had to make those big ticket calls and he probably spent 2009-13 thinking "this one is the last" (thank feck so many weren't, not complaining).
Mkhitaryan an LVG signing? What? I'm fairly certain there were no links to Mkhitaryan whatsoever until well after Mourinho took over. If anything he just seemed to be an extra Raiola client that we picked up as the same time as Zlatan and Pogba.

Pogba had been most strongly linked to Chelsea the season previously while Mourinho was the manager, and then joined us when Mourinho was manager. That signing was something that both club and manager obviously agreed on. Sanchez...yeah, you might be right on that one. It does feel like a Woodward signing. Then again, an aging player who is past his best and on the decline also feels like a Mourinho signing, considering some of the other players that we know he wanted to sign at that time. Personally I expect that Woody saw the opportunity, but Mourinho happily said yes when the option was given to him.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
I hope you’re not suggesting that you’re on board with anti-football, even shitehouse, tactics if it means trophies.

Of course there has to be a balance between attacking football and pragmatism, but Van Gaal and Mourinho brought us football that was literally — and I do mean literally — hideous to watch. What would be the joy of watching grinding, shitehouse football for 90 minutes match after match, month after month, for a few minutes of joy watching a trophy being lifted?

We can’t even just assume without question that anti-football is the sure path to stuffing trophies in the cabinet. That kind of football isn’t what wins trophies today nor was it the kind of football that enabled United to win all those trophies under Ferguson. Mourinho’s tactics were already prehistoric by the time he came to OT and despite the two trophies he won, he was nowhere close to winning PL and CL and his brand of football was hideous to watch and contributed to the toxicity within the squad, who at least I believe were not on board with his shit.
Football doesn't remember losers. Only winners are remembered regardless of which way of football they played to win.

And there's nothing called anti-football. Saying defensive football is anti-football is another dumb logic. There're multiple ways to play this sport.

Finally, this isn't related to Mourinho alone, I'm replying on your logic.
 
Last edited:

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
13,268
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
LVG was the only one that didn't have his players down tools on him so he wins by default no matter how much people dislike his football.
 

Lost bear

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
1,276
Each Man Utd manager since Fergie has been cut short, often for very good reasons. Many of them think they were hard done by, and if they'd had more time they'd have led the club back to the top. Which one of them would have done best if given 5 full years to mould the team, training, staff, and style, to their own liking?
Moyes?
Giggs?
Van Gaal?
Mourinho?
Solskjaer?
Carrick?
Rangnick?
None of 'em.
 

Rood

nostradamus like gloater
Scout
Joined
Jun 21, 2008
Messages
21,232
Location
@United_Hour
Wouldn't say unlucky, he deserved to be sacked 6 months before but if any manager deserved time it was him. He was the only manager who set the team to dominate, control using possession. We didn't know what to do with possession, under others we didn't even know how to control possession.

Every manager was sacked at least 6 months too late but with benefit of hindsight, if we had to pick one manager to get 5 years I will always pick Van Gaal.
Probable that the decision was taken months before but I wonder if he would have been sacked if they gave him until end of season - maybe he still would due to ultimately missing Top4

I can't excuse the dire football and lack of goals but FA Cup and missing CL on GD would actually be a decent season nowadays!

The players had not given up on LvG like they seemed to with Moyes, Jose and Ole (and Rangnick)
I think another window would have seen much better football but who knows if he'd have lasted 5yrs
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,784
Van Gaal as he may have gotten us to play better in that time and he was the best tactically that we have had done Fergie.

Not sure Ole would have done any better than his first couple of seasons as there never seemed to any real growth around.

Jose had checked out after two seasons we would be near relegation if not relegated had he stayed five plus either him or a player would be up for murdering the other in that time

Moyes and Rangnick should never have been in the job in the first place keeping them any longer wouldn't lead to anything
 

Cal?

CR7 fan
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
34,942
Jose by some margin, should have backed him in the market and sold Pogba like he wanted to.
 

RedPed

Whatabouter.
Joined
Jun 24, 2015
Messages
14,558
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

He had one of the best runs post-Fergie and if I'm not mistaken probably has the most positive records too (yes, he has a few negatives but don't they all). He was the only manager who really loved United....perhaps it blurred his objectivity a bit.

He just had that bad run at the end and no chance to turn it around. I think if he had lasted till the end of the season, he would have taken a long hard look at himself and made some big changes. His biggest undoing was his staff...they were shite.
 

The Cat

Will drink milk from your hands
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
12,108
Location
Feet up at home.
Jose by some margin, should have backed him in the market and sold Pogba like he wanted to.
Never looked like he would want to stay 5 years though imo. He wasn't given what he asked for no but I don't think he would have won the league even so.
 

BigDycheEnergy

New Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Messages
182
Your hypothetical is a bit far-fetched. You essentially give all of them 5 years regardless of what happens?

I don't think any manager can feel unfairly treated. Moyes had the arguably best circumstances and finished 7th after circus-like management. Van Gaal didn't have an epic collapse like Mourinho and Ole, but he did slowly kill us with his football that somehow got worse over time. I don't think there was any coming back for Mourinho and Ole with their respective collapses. They both had to go. Rangnick was just an interim and a poor one at that. And he's more of a "behind the scenes" person anyways.

The correct answer is that none of them would have cut it over a 5 year period.

If however our club was well-run from top to bottom then maybe Van Gaal could have made it work over time. There's an argument for Ole too. He was always good with the players and had a natural comeback-ability. Surround him with competent people and he could have become a new Ancelotti type of manager. That's all hypothetical, of course. I feel that I'm really grasping at straws when making a case for both of them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sultan

acolyte

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
335
I cannot believe that 8 years after the fact this thread is still full of people baselessly claiming Moyes would have come good. Not only is there no evidence of this, there's a whole season's evidence that he would in fact do very badly! There's a whole career's evidence that the best he can do is upper midtable while never winning a single trophy and losing almost every big match. Face facts people, he was the wrong appointment from the get go and no amount of "stability" (which for him means trundling around 5th-8th and never winning a big game) would make a Moyes reign at United successful.

Anyway the answer to this question is probably LVG but he would have needed a better recruitment department. I guess I'm mostly basing this on his record in the biggest matches.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
13,615
Football doesn't remember losers. Only winners are remembered regardless of which way of football they played to win.

And there's nothing called anti-football. Saying defensive football is anti-football is another dumb logic. There're multiple ways to play this sport.

Finally, this isn't related to Mourinho alone, I'm replying on your logic.
Completely, profoundly disagree. Feel free to live for football-shit-on-a-stick if you like but there are some of us who live for the beauty of the football performance, not the remorseless grinding of four performances that produce results. The perfect line splitting pass, speed off the ball, even the lunging tackle. We saw none of that under Mourinho, who gave us zombie football.

By your “logic” you’d be more than delighted to lift trophies no matter how dour the football would be that delivered a trophy. To each his own, but I’d rather not eat shit on a stick for a season.
 

TypeR

Full Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2013
Messages
454
Location
The Little Red Dot
Louis van Gaal would’ve gotten the most success in the long run with a proper DOF set up and not one that pandered to Woodward’s fancies.

A sustained winning culture is the sum of all parts - management - coaching staff - players. And unluckily for LvG, the management and recruitment were trash in his time.

Mou is a good shout but bar Real, he’s always burned bridges after a short stint of success. Moyes, Ole never had the pedigree of coaching a big team to win in the most competitive competitions.
 

el3mel

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
43,735
Location
Egypt
Completely, profoundly disagree. Feel free to live for football-shit-on-a-stick if you like but there are some of us who live for the beauty of the football performance, not the remorseless grinding of four performances that produce results. The perfect line splitting pass, speed off the ball, even the lunging tackle. We saw none of that under Mourinho, who gave us zombie football.

By your “logic” you’d be more than delighted to lift trophies no matter how dour the football would be that delivered a trophy. To each his own, but I’d rather not eat shit on a stick for a season.
Exactly. Being successful in sport is the most important thing. Everything else is secondary or means to an end.

And again, this sport can be played in multiple ways. Considering that there's only one proper way of playing a sport and anything else is anti-sport is an arrogant way of thinking.
 

JB7

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
8,826
Exactly. Being successful in sport is the most important thing. Everything else is secondary or means to an end.

And again, this sport can be played in multiple ways. Considering that there's only one proper way of playing a sport and anything else is anti-sport is an arrogant way of thinking.
Believe me it’s not. When United aren’t playing I watch a non league team & I’ve seen them win a league title once in the 25+ years I’ve been watching them. In that season they had a manager with an incredibly basic - but effective - hoofball style of play. It was absolutely hideous to watch and while winning the league was a great day, when I look back I honestly have better memories of the season before in which they’d been relegated and had a 30 match winless run during the season. Winning is the most important thing, I agree, but style and enjoyment matters.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
LVG. The football just looked bad because he bought wrong but I can now see what he was getting at. At the time ignorance was high about any kind of organized play.
 

Idxomer

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
15,009
Definitely not the guy who has never spent more than 3 seasons at any club.

It's LVG by default because the job would've always been too big for Moyes and Ole and they were basically memes by the end of their stints.
 

mitchmouse

loves to hate United.
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
17,361
Except the reason he doesn't last five years is because everything crumbles around him, to the point there is absolutely no coming back. If anyone thinks things got bad under Rangnick (who came into an incredible mess of others making), it would have looked like like a friendly family get-together compared to how it would have looked with Mourinho (who was creating that mess himself) staying any longer. Rangnick at least tended to make fair criticisms, albeit probably going overboard with how publicly he did it. Mourinho tended to be attacking the players who were actually performing at least somewhat decently, while protecting the players who were absolutely stinking up the place simply because they were a teachers pet. Hell, it got so bad there had to be strong suspicions that Mourinho was trying to get himself fired as quickly as possible so he could get out before his reputation crumbled even further.

Out of all the managers we've had, he was the least likely to turn it back around.
I often wondered if Jose sometimes tried to get himself fired but I hardly think he allowed poor players to stay: he was the one who wanted Martial and Pogba out - and, wow, was he right to want that.

However, you are not totally wrong about RR. to be fair, he was given no chance whatsoever
 

Ole'sattheWheel

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
941
People saying Van Gaal don’t make sense to me. First time as a United fan I genuinely wanted to just end a match 0-0 at half time because I couldn’t be bothered watching any more
 

sirAlexsglasses

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
287
Had Mourinho been allowed more control and players, probably wouldn’t have been the prettiest football, but we would have son trophies.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
People saying Van Gaal don’t make sense to me. First time as a United fan I genuinely wanted to just end a match 0-0 at half time because I couldn’t be bothered watching any more
Because that wasn't actually what LVG wanted either. It only looked that way because he bought highly non-technical players. He clearly didn't know enough about recruitment to have it left to just he and Woodward. A proper structure and we'd have been among the first english teams to adopt organised build up play and ready to hand over strong foundations to someone even stronger, maybe similar principles but more direct like Pep or ETH. Since then we've gone on an entire fruitless merrygoround with kick and rush managers.