Why are Brazilians so good despite having disadvantages?

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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Another factor is i think the fact they became introduced to and obsessed with the game at an early'ish, very fluid time in its development as a worldwide sport was extremely important. Add in the other stuff like huge population and economic circumstances bad enough that lead to mass participation as a way out of being poor, and you have a country where things clicked to become an elite football culture at the right time in the sports history.

Football was pretty fluid with improving and declining countries right up until the 70s with the emergence of Netherlands. The large countries that stabilised themselves as the elite by then, and had developed a strong football culture by then, had all the tools to keep on being so, as long as there weren't massive internal upheavals. the ones that did fade like Hungary, Austria were notably smaller countries and more vulnerable to political change, or simply a less talented/successful generation or two derailing things.

It seems to be much harder in recent decades for a country to emerge as a consistently very good/elite force at national team or club level. Football has become very centralised in western europe and rather stagnant. the sport somewhat reflects the concentration of wealth in current capitalist systems. The countries that had money/got established at the right time, continue to thrive, and if you're outside that be prepared for a very tough time in getting anywhere.
 

Charles Miller

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All those countries where football became dominant or very important in the beginning of the 20th century tend to be successful in this sport, because its part of the culture by now.
 

HTG

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It’s culture. They are so good for the same reasons Turkey or Mexico are so bad.
 

PSV

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I think it's focus as well. Outside of football I can only think of volleyball as a different team sport they are competitive.
 

led_scholes

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Diet is important. But it's not like until the 80s, European footballers had any better diet. They also have other advantages as many have mentioned.
Similarly, I always found amazing that Yugoslavia, which apart from Slovenia has always been among the poorer areas in Europe, produce among the best talents in every sport. Football, basket, volley, tennis etc.
 

Vernon Philander

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Netherlands and Belgium have produced so many world class talents despite population limitations too.
 

Gavinb33

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There is something regarding desperation about making it a little bit, a lot of players if they didn't make it to europe or at least into the Brazilian 1st division, themselves and their families would be in dire straits in some ways.

Thats not to say that's true in all cases iirc Kaka was from an affluent background
 

MexicanCowboy

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They have a long tradition and over 200 million people to choose from. If you think about it. Argentina is actually more impressive. They have one fifth of Brazil's population and have produced some of the best players in the World.
 

BigDycheEnergy

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I'm too late to the party to add something that hasn't already been said, so I'll offer a bonus question: why are Brazilians so good at volleyball(the indoor kind)? They are often the highest ranked nation!

Volleyball is arguably the second most popular team sport in the world(cricket and field hockey are too regional), so we're not talking about a niche sport here. It's also quite difficult to organize compared to football since you need a gym and a volleyball net. I guess all the potential beach volleyball practice is transferable, but they are quite still different sports.
 

MTF

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Size of the population: 212 million.

Love of football: it's numero uno with nothing else even close. Playing in the street is the only option for entertainment for most kids.

Football culture: it prioritises flair. If you think of the Normal Distributions for different abilities, only a handful of kids are going to have the requisite amounts of athleticism, mentality and technique to make it in the game. By skewing the distribution of technique towards the extreme, it raises the number who meet the cutoff level for ability on the ball. This may mean that some youth players fall through the gaps because they missed out on physical or mental training early on in their lives. But the sheer size of the population (point 1) and the overwhelming love of the game (point 2) are enough to make up for those losses. And if they're a natural athlete with a natural workhorse mentality anyway, they're probably going to be very good.
Good post.

I'd add that I think that the lack of organized play before the mid-teenage years is actually a benefit. I grew up in a more affluent background there, but still we played all the time and in all manner of conditions. Lot's of small court futsal but sometimes hardwood, sometimes cement, sometimes with proper futsal shoes, sometimes barefoot. I went to one of the best private schools in Rio and the main pitch for our larger games (7v7) was dirt. Meanwhile kids back in England my age were playing on big ass pitches trying to do 11v11 that prioritizes speed over technique. That was my setting, imagine for the kids in poorer parts of the city and the country. Technique + quickness (different so speed) become essential in those games.
 

HTG

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Can you elaborate on this?
While football is extremely popular in all three of these countries, Brazil has a completely different culture around it. Not just in the way it is liked, but in the way it is played, taught and organised. Through huge stretches of history, the Brazilian league was very strong and at times on par with the best leagues in Europe. So there is a cultural heritage in regards to football, that is gigantic. That brings structure, a lot of know how and all that stuff. I believe these things matter a lot.
Countries like the Netherlands or Uruguay are also continuously successful for similar reasons, I believe. That’s why small countries like that can produce so much talent. And it’s why many countries that love football produce so little.
 

do.ob

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I feel like this thread is at least 10 years too late. While still being one of the big nations, Brazil seem to have regressed quite since their last WC win 20 years ago.
 

Red the Bear

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I feel like this thread is at least 10 years too late. While still being one of the big nations, Brazil seem to have regressed quite since their last WC win 20 years ago.
Their organization on a national level seems to be all over the place but they still pump out talents like there's no tomorrow.

Even in 2002 I don't think they were particularly well prepared on that front, but the sheer individual quality got them through.
 

MTF

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I feel like this thread is at least 10 years too late. While still being one of the big nations, Brazil seem to have regressed quite since their last WC win 20 years ago.
The main issue is lack of tactical evolution in the past 20 or so years. This is in part why so many foreign managers have recently been so successful in the Brazilian league (Jorge Jesus, Abel Ferreira). This has also affected where different types of talent is allocated in terms of position, and you see that mainly in the lack of technical center midfielders for Brazil while other top countries have had a few.
 

Bobski

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Always felt that Brazil produced a really good combination of attributes, good physical qualities, excellent technique, a confident expressiveness that combines those first 2 together, add a bit of a aggression and the competitive fire that having to stand out in such a football mad country requires and you have a production line like no other.
 

maniak

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I knew a pro brazilian footballer in the 00s and asked him this question. He said playing well was the only way for him to get girls.
 

VanDeBank

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I was reading about older world cup tournaments and it just occurred to me, Brazil is really damn good at football. Yeah they don't have the sexiest team right now compared to the 90s and before but I think it's getting there.

So what makes them so damn good? They have the most world cups. Everyone else on that list is nation that does economically much better than Brazil so that means better infrastructure and general diet and health. It's not like Brazilians are known for highly disciplined teams as well with a ton of off the field issues.

Also, compared to other successful nations, their league is not the quality of the top European leagues or in close proximity to leagues that good.

What do you all think it is?
Huge population and footy is the only sport that matters there /thread.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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What I read in a book by a Brazilian player once was that they do a ton of drills with tennis balls instead of footballs.

He also mentioned that growing up playing barefoot also helped.
 

Conor

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Shit loads of poor kids playing football all day and night, in bad conditions that hone their skill, but they are in a country with a lot of wealth in some places and a solid football league, so they can be moulded into great players after being identified for their natural talent. People mentioning Africa and Asia seem to be forgetting that the football leagues there have nothing on Brazilian ones, and also far less kids playing football per country.
 

Withnail

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I understand it’s their obsession but to constantly dominate and be able to field 2/3 quality teams is crazy given their population - I also understand Rugby isn’t really a worldwide sport so a bit easier to dominate
It's basically the only sport anyone plays there and they say all the kids have rugby balls in their hands going to school etc. It's not only their population though. The best players from the surrounding islands come to their league and they naturalise a lot of them. Lots of teams are doing this now but the Kiwis have been at it for ages. 10/11 of the 36 man squad to face Ireland weren't born there.

I don't have much to offer on Brazil.
 

General_Elegancia

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Street football and futsal- Two things are very important in Brazil's football culture. A lot of great footballers have been made by this method, they help a lot in term of close control and dribbling in tight space for example Ronaldinho Gaucho also grew up from street football and futsal.

Culture- Brazilian people always have enormous love for this sport or in another way it's another religion in Brazil.

Populations- Brazil has one of the biggest populations in the world, it's only below China, Indonesia, USA and India. So Brazil gains a lot of advantages from having a lot of people and mixing advantages in population with culture and you will have a lot of passionate people in football.

Passion- It's the most famous sport in Brazil and has major effect with culture in daily life. Football is a favorite hobby for everyone in Brazil.

Another Brazilian characteristic also effects Brazilian's football game, everyone knows that Brazilian people are cheerful, friendly and very creative and it has effected their game for almost 70-80 years. Brazilian's football is very similar to their habit, it's an attacking and entertaining football. They have produced a great amount of forwards, attacking midfielders, technician central midfielders and attacking full-backs. Right now, their style of playing has a lot of influences from European football, since Brazilian's players have been moved to European countries for playing in wealthy club due to a lot of reasons(especially in term of salaries).

Athleticism also one of the most advantages from Brazilian's footballers. A lot of Brazilian players are athletic freak, you can look at Ronaldo R9, Pele, Ronaldinho, Roberto Carlos, Neymar( I consider him in this category too), Vinicius Junior, Jairzinho and a lot more. They have been famous for their running speed and acceleration abilities more than jumping ability, all of those traits are very important especially when they have faced defenders.

Poverty- I don't want to write this topic, since it's very controversial choice of writing but I think I should write. In 30-60 years ago players like Zico, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo(R9) came from this kind of environments and everyone has different stories. At 6-14 years old, all of them didn't go to academy, instead of that they had played at the street in a very tight space with a lot of people( from Zico's story) and it has made them a very imaginative and skillful players, super creative and did a lot of unpredictable things.


 
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JJ12

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It's basically the only sport anyone plays there and they say all the kids have rugby balls in their hands going to school etc. It's not only their population though. The best players from the surrounding islands come to their league and they naturalise a lot of them. Lots of teams are doing this now but the Kiwis have been at it for ages. 10/11 of the 36 man squad to face Ireland weren't born there.

I don't have much to offer on Brazil.
This is a very good point
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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Why are Russia so poor at football?
Football culture not strong enough overall to survive the upheaval of the end of the Soviet Union without taking a massive beating on the participatory side, despite it still being the most popular sport overall. No structured country-wide effort since then to rebuild an efficient footballing infrastructure from grassroots up, leading to massive amounts of potential talent never getting anywhere. even in the ussr, there was always the way of thinking by many people involved in football that the sport had never been properly developed too far beyond being a Moscow thing. st Petersburg for instance was an underachieving laughing stock as a city, with a single league title in history before gazprom Zenit.

When money became available to invest into the sport during the 00s, it was largely focused on short term goals by new private owners, and on a club by club basis regarding any improvement in youth/wider infrastructure areas. Most clubs remained propped up by the state in some way. World Cup 2018 was a vanity project by Putin government, not the culmination of a coherent sporting rebuild, hence going into it with some nice new stadiums and what many considered the worst team and generation of players ever. On the player side, they stopped moving to better leagues once the money was good enough at home, and if they did move...tended to come straight back the minute they started struggling at their initial club. You wouldn't find the sort of determination you get with players from poorer leagues like Croatia/Serbia/Poland/Czechia etc that will move around until they find their niche, and possibly improve into top players in the process.

Basically just not a priority at all for the Putin dictatorship. Focus was on the more olympics related sports that are far easier to manipulate and interfere with on the international scene, especially for something like a glorious domestic olympic triumph. Well, to an extent...i don't really follow any of them, so not the best person to talk, but i can't think of many olympic sports that seemed to get better because of coherent government support during the Putin era.

This evil war he has instigated has no doubt done significant further damage to Ukrainian and Russian football. It's hard to see football keeping even the mediocre standard of the last 5-10 years as long as his regime remains in place; moving to Asian confederation would kill any chance of improving.
 

Frank Grimes

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Football culture not strong enough overall to survive the upheaval of the end of the Soviet Union without taking a massive beating on the participatory side, despite it still being the most popular sport overall. No structured country-wide effort since then to rebuild an efficient footballing infrastructure from grassroots up, leading to massive amounts of potential talent never getting anywhere. even in the ussr, there was always the way of thinking by many people involved in football that the sport had never been properly developed too far beyond being a Moscow thing. st Petersburg for instance was an underachieving laughing stock as a city, with a single league title in history before gazprom Zenit.

When money became available to invest into the sport during the 00s, it was largely focused on short term goals by new private owners, and on a club by club basis regarding any improvement in youth/wider infrastructure areas. Most clubs remained propped up by the state in some way. World Cup 2018 was a vanity project by Putin government, not the culmination of a coherent sporting rebuild, hence going into it with some nice new stadiums and what many considered the worst team and generation of players ever. On the player side, they stopped moving to better leagues once the money was good enough at home, and if they did move...tended to come straight back the minute they started struggling at their initial club. You wouldn't find the sort of determination you get with players from poorer leagues like Croatia/Serbia/Poland/Czechia etc that will move around until they find their niche, and possibly improve into top players in the process.

Basically just not a priority at all for the Putin dictatorship. Focus was on the more olympics related sports that are far easier to manipulate and interfere with on the international scene, especially for something like a glorious domestic olympic triumph. Well, to an extent...i don't really follow any of them, so not the best person to talk, but i can't think of many olympic sports that seemed to get better because of coherent government support during the Putin era.

This evil war he has instigated has no doubt done significant further damage to Ukrainian and Russian football. It's hard to see football keeping even the mediocre standard of the last 5-10 years as long as his regime remains in place; moving to Asian confederation would kill any chance of improving.
Good post.
 

mctrials23

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Football is a sport of the common man. How many English football stars sound anything but rough as hell? They have a huge population that lives and breathes football and their National style of football works pretty well on the international stage. It’s not some weird anomaly.
 

Thelongsleevesofblomqvist

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Its culture ofc? Like everything else? Why are Holland (a small country) so succesfull? Why do so much music come from Jamaica? Why do England not win any mayor tournaments?

Brazil:
- Football heritage/culture
- Population
- Obsession with football
- What Cruyff called "ghetto mentality" - a way out of a life in poverty
- Athelticism
- Climate