Film Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness

Smores said:

But she doesn't willfully give up her children it's forced as a necessary action. You seem confused why a mother losing her children would become unhinged when of course she would be. That's the emotional reason which doesn't need any explanation and then the darkhold is the poison and that explanation was forced several times during the film.

Plenty of reasons to be critical of this film but not understanding why a grieving mother with new dark powers is unhinged I just don't get.

Click to expand...

Garethw said:

I watched this over the weekend. I’m a huge Sam Raimi fan but this was absolute shit.

Click to expand...

Ish said:

A movie as average (if you're being kind, others would call it terrible) as this and it still made close to/more than $1bn at the box office iirc. That's Marvel for you, I guess.

Click to expand...

phelans shorts said:

It’s a totally unsustainable model, which is probably why they’re desperately milking it now. Between this and pushing that everybody *needs* to see the latest Disney plus tv show to have half an idea what’s going on they’re going to burn a lot of good will very fast.

Click to expand...

Ish said:

A movie as average (if you're being kind, others would call it terrible) as this and it still made close to/more than $1bn at the box office iirc. That's Marvel for you, I guess.

Click to expand...

Sylar said:

It's weird cos I think if you take the non avenger movies out only

nd Captain America civil war (which was Spiderman's return) only 7 of their movies have hit a billion

Civil was was basically an avengers movie and Spiderman's return
Spidey NWH was basically a Spiderman multiverse movie
So that leaves IM3, captain marvel (this had the luxury of being between the two IW movies), black panther, Spiderman ffh, and this one.

Interesting to see if Thor hits a billion given it should have guardians in it too

Click to expand...

Eplel said:

Did we buy Frenkie in any of these universes?

Click to expand...

Ish said:

Yeah but even 7 hitting a billion is a massive "hit" i think. Top Gun maverick was the first time Cruise hit a billion, for context.

Click to expand...

Mr Pigeon said:

The MCU wasn't "amazing" before but Disney have killed it since the takeover. We're now oversaturated with MCU content to the point where there's no special value to it anymore. If you were lucky you'd get two movies a year, and plenty of time in between to just focus on other things. But the movies felt like a big event. Now you're bombarded with two movies a year, three or four shows with new characters that are getting gradually more trivial and uninspired, short mini episodes like "Thanos Washes His Head". And if you don't watch all of it then the movies, supposedly the Big Deal that we're all meant to care about, make no sense.

Seriously, they made a fecking three minute short movie called "What Coulson Did on the Way to Thor's Hammer" and it's just him buying something at a petrol station, stopping an armed robber, getting in his car and driving off. I'm not even joking. What did it add to the overall MCU narrative? feck all. But like most MCU content nowadays it just exists merely so you'll pay for Disney+. Again, Marvel movies weren't high brow entertainment but they at least had a narrative purpose at one point.

Now it's just "content, content, content" made of sawdust. Nothing nutritious so you need to stuff yourself with lots of it in order to feel full. Same argument goes for Star Wars as well.

Click to expand...

Ish said:

Yeah but even 7 hitting a billion is a massive "hit" i think. Top Gun maverick was the first time Cruise hit a billion, for context.

Click to expand...

GuyfromAustria said:

According to Wikipedia only 49 movies ever reached a billion, 10 of them came from the MCU.

Click to expand...

Sylar said:

Didnt Disney buy it in 2009? So basically only some of the phase 1 movies were released? The vision pretty much stayed the same with feige?
Disney hasnt exactly killed it. Creatively, its pretty much the same it has been, except, you now have more backing and thus more content.

I guess for non fans it can seem too much. However for fans its great.




Yeah i get what you guys are saying. I actually thought MCU had more (I think they hit big around IW where it peaked in terms of cinema viewing cos you had all the characters influxing into movies with team ups and then of course the absolute peak with the Avenger IW part1 and 2 which rounded up 10 years of movies)
Dr Strange from what i read is still under 1 billion so we cant even count that one... yet.

Click to expand...

Mr Pigeon said:

I can appreciate that I'm in the minority but as an example; I had zero interest in Wandavision when it came out, and only ended up seeing it after my missus eventually persuaded me to give it a go again (before I had stopped after one episode). Had I not watched it then I'd be in the same boat as the folk who watched this movie and wondered why Wanda went from Endgame to suddenly dreaming about two random kids.

It just feels strange that there's now homework when watching these movies - that's my take of it, understand that I might be wrong...

Click to expand...

GuyfromAustria said:

According to Wikipedia only 49 movies ever reached a billion, 10 of them came from the MCU.

Click to expand...

MadDogg said:

The most annoying one being how easily Wong gave up the secret of the Darkhold to Wanda despite knowing the danger. That one seriously aggravated me.

Click to expand...

Mr Pigeon said:

The MCU wasn't "amazing" before but Disney have killed it since the takeover. We're now oversaturated with MCU content to the point where there's no special value to it anymore. If you were lucky you'd get two movies a year, and plenty of time in between to just focus on other things. But the movies felt like a big event. Now you're bombarded with two movies a year, three or four shows with new characters that are getting gradually more trivial and uninspired, short mini episodes like "Thanos Washes His Head". And if you don't watch all of it then the movies, supposedly the Big Deal that we're all meant to care about, make no sense.

Seriously, they made a fecking three minute short movie called "What Coulson Did on the Way to Thor's Hammer" and it's just him buying something at a petrol station, stopping an armed robber, getting in his car and driving off. I'm not even joking. What did it add to the overall MCU narrative? feck all. But like most MCU content nowadays it just exists merely so you'll pay for Disney+. Again, Marvel movies weren't high brow entertainment but they at least had a narrative purpose at one point.

Now it's just "content, content, content" made of sawdust. Nothing nutritious so you need to stuff yourself with lots of it in order to feel full. Same argument goes for Star Wars as well.

Click to expand...

Norman Brownbutter said:

That looks better. Being a feminist isn’t and never has been been Bries problem. Being an insufferably unlikeable attention seeker is. If James Corden was a woman, would you be able to say with a straight face that “daring to be feminist” was the reason everyone hates James? No. Because claiming sexism is the shield Brie hides behind. “It’s not because I’m a horribly unlikable person, it’s because I stand up to the patriarchy, you guys.”.

Most people love Anne Hathaway. She’s a feminist. Pretty outspoken one at that in a UN ambassador role. Not a lot of hate going on. Why? Not a cnut. And I also agree, both Captain Marvels were annoyingly smug. I believe if we all hated women we would have some questionable things to say about Captain Carter as well. But we don’t. Or at least I dont. Questionable writing aside, Olsen was fantastic as Wanda. And I didnt hate America Chavez, although her character was little more than a McMuffin McGuffin. Don’t really know anything about her other than she responds really well to motivational speeches from zombies.

The biggest issue with other Captain Marvel is that she died from a statue falling on her. What kind of nonsense is that? Writer must hate women…

Click to expand...

The Corinthian said:

Yes didn’t understand this either. Isn’t Captain Marvel meant to be the strongest / most powerful in the MCU?

Click to expand...

Sylar said:

They are expanding the MCU to include TV so wandavision really was required for this to get some of the Wanda references and why she was acting like ... Well a brat

Click to expand...

roseguy64 said:

Disney+ wasn't even a thing when that Coulson one-shot came out. What the hell are you complaining about? That came out like a decade ago. FFS.

They've also been releasing two movies a year for coming up to a decade now as well. Disney purchased Marvel pretty much after only 2 or 3 MCU films have been made.

Just a nonsense rant.

Click to expand...

roseguy64 said:

Disney+ wasn't even a thing when that Coulson one-shot came out. What the hell are you complaining about? That came out like a decade ago. FFS.

They've also been releasing two movies a year for coming up to a decade now as well. Disney purchased Marvel pretty much after only 2 or 3 MCU films have been made.

Just a nonsense rant.

Click to expand...

Norman Brownbutter said:

No, it’s pretty on point. The “what did coulson do on the way to Thor’s hammer?” may be a bad example, but the rant is on solid footing. As its shows Disney were already planning on pushing as much content as possible. Marvel were just two movies a year, maybe the odd three. They always had little after credit scenes to wet the appetite for more. But as @Mr Pigeon rightly said, it has now become about pushing the next product. Marvel and Star Wars both doing this. It’s become less and less about putting out good stories with fun characters and more and more about consuming content.

Almost everything is a set up to a spin off these days. And instead of the characters adding to the current story they are in, they take away from it. As long as you consume the next product, they don’t care how it effects the quality.

The current state of the MCU is that it’s a bit of a mess. Star Wars the same. It’s pointless, meaningless, rambling content with its main purpose to fill in blocks of time. It’s just content with no artistic weight behind it. Just consume it, forget about it, and then consume the next thing. Disney plus is just chewing gum for eyes. It’s not nutritious, it loses its flavour quickly, and in the end you just have to keep shovelling more in to keep the flavour going.

Remember phase 1 of the MCU? It was 5 self contained movies and then the big team up. A total of 6 movies. Phase 2, also 6 movies. in 2015, disney launched Disney life. A streaming service for the uk in order to test the waters of demand. This is where the idea for Disney plus starts and Disney starts buying up stuff to make Disney plus a thing. Phase 3, which started around the same time, is now 11 movies long. Phase 4 starts around the same time as Disney plus launches. As a result we are now 5 movies and 6 tv shows deep with another 6 movies and another 9 tv shows coming. And worst of all, we don’t really have any idea where it’s all going yet. We assume kang the conqueror, but who knows.

It’s just content. At best it’s the visual equivalent of a Big Mac or a whopper. It looks good because of marketing, and maybe those first few bites taste good thanks to being overloaded with salt and sugar, but really it’s just a burger slapped together by someone who doesn’t care that you enjoy it. only that you eat it. Firing out bland, uninspired product after bland uninspired product, with some clown or king or mouse staring at you telling you it’s the best thing ever! I wonder how beloved these movies and shows and would be without the twitter hype? My guess is about as well received a Big Mac haphazardly thrown together by a spotty teenager with questionable hygiene. We all know the marketing of these burgers is nothing like what you end up with, and marvel and Star Wars are exactly this. Christ, book of Boba Fett was a wrong order! It was basically just Mando 2.5. Or to keep the analogy going, it was a chicken sandwich with some questionable substance masquerading as mayo.

The worst part of all of this though, if you eat this shit long enough. All that salt and sugar ruins your tastebuds and you end up with no sense of what real good food is supposed to taste like. And you start to crave the mass produced dog shit.

Click to expand...

flameinthesun said:

Marvel started off doing fewer movies because they didnt have the budget to do more things, now they do. It wasn't some master plan to just release 1/2 movies a year and leave it at that. Regarding pushing the next product the MCU has been built from the very start to do all the things you say its only now doing. From the very first movie they have had Easter eggs as well as a tease for either the next movie or something happening later in that phase. So its very weird people using an argument that its now turned into a franchise just peddling the next product when everything its doing now its been doing from the start.

The current state of marvel (phase 4), as has been said by Feige is to have a slight breather after endgame. Whilst the multiverse has been the theme, the majority of the movies don't really lead into the next like previous phases, which feige said is intentional. Marvel will be presenting at comiccon later this month where we will most likely get a view on what the next phases will look like.

Phase 1 movies were probably less self contained than some of the movies in phase 4. Iron man introduced nick fury, hulk tied into iron man, iron man 2, captain america, thor all were interconnected with shield and were pretty much all about getting things in place for avengers. In contrast shang chi was pretty much its own thing in this phase, eternals as well. Either way its nothing new.

Regarding Disney+ tv shows, before the d+ tv shows you had agents of shield, daredevil, inhumans, peggy carter etc as well as a bunch of shorts. Apart from wandavision the pre d+ shows and most of the d+ can be skipped without really missing much. So even looking at numbers the movies have gone from about 2 movies a year to about 3 movies a year. The tv shows may feel like a lot (currently 4 on d+), but before then we had daredevil, jessica jones, luke cage, iron fist, defenders, agents of shield, inhumans with the majority having multiple seasons.

So I get people who may be tired of the MCU, which is normal as its been going nearly 15+ years as well being the first of its kind to go so big in being interconnected. But this argument that they've somehow sold out or disney has pushed them to just release, release, release thereby lowering the quality is a bit silly seeing as it was designed from the very start to be like this and in general the majority of marvel products continue to be well recieved by fans and the public which is the key thing (unlike say the star wars movies where its evident that they have gone away from the original star wars formula)

Click to expand...

flameinthesun said:

Marvel started off doing fewer movies because they didnt have the budget to do more things, now they do. It wasn't some master plan to just release 1/2 movies a year and leave it at that. Regarding pushing the next product the MCU has been built from the very start to do all the things you say its only now doing. From the very first movie they have had Easter eggs as well as a tease for either the next movie or something happening later in that phase. So its very weird people using an argument that its now turned into a franchise just peddling the next product when everything its doing now its been doing from the start.

The current state of marvel (phase 4), as has been said by Feige is to have a slight breather after endgame. Whilst the multiverse has been the theme, the majority of the movies don't really lead into the next like previous phases, which feige said is intentional. Marvel will be presenting at comiccon later this month where we will most likely get a view on what the next phases will look like.

Phase 1 movies were probably less self contained than some of the movies in phase 4. Iron man introduced nick fury, hulk tied into iron man, iron man 2, captain america, thor all were interconnected with shield and were pretty much all about getting things in place for avengers. In contrast shang chi was pretty much its own thing in this phase, eternals as well. Either way its nothing new.

Regarding Disney+ tv shows, before the d+ tv shows you had agents of shield, daredevil, inhumans, peggy carter etc as well as a bunch of shorts. Apart from wandavision the pre d+ shows and most of the d+ can be skipped without really missing much. So even looking at numbers the movies have gone from about 2 movies a year to about 3 movies a year. The tv shows may feel like a lot (currently 4 on d+), but before then we had daredevil, jessica jones, luke cage, iron fist, defenders, agents of shield, inhumans with the majority having multiple seasons.

So I get people who may be tired of the MCU, which is normal as its been going nearly 15+ years as well being the first of its kind to go so big in being interconnected. But this argument that they've somehow sold out or disney has pushed them to just release, release, release thereby lowering the quality is a bit silly seeing as it was designed from the very start to be like this and in general the majority of marvel products continue to be well recieved by fans and the public which is the key thing (unlike say the star wars movies where its evident that they have gone away from the original star wars formula)

Click to expand...

caid said:

I'm inclined to say its gotten worse over the years. Theres almost certainly some burn out involved with that position but i think its kind of clear all the same. As you say there were easter eggs and brief nods to other characters and series initially. Nick Fury and Shield didn't get a mention outside a post credit scene that no one really knew existed in the first Iron Man, everyone else was pure easter egg. Everyone introduced or referenced in that film was directly relevant to the storyline contained in that one film. Same with Captain America, everyone introduced was directly relevant to Captain America. Most were discarded after the movie. I dont think they were especially good movies particularly in hindsight with them completely burning through peoples willingness to watch origin movies but you didn't need to see a single other movie or know anything about marvel to follow them.
I think their Phase 2 films were their strongest, they were making political thrillers with a marvel coat of paint in the Winter Soldier. A great heist, comedy film in Guardians of the Galaxy. Those two films really don't feel at all similar and I think the directors involvement and personality is fairly clear in each.
This just felt like Marvel gruel. Origin films are squeezed into literally everything with American Chavez and Mr. Fantastic and Blackbolt all being squeezed into this. Its got an attempt at James Gunn quipy comedy, which misses the mark more often than not. It has some Sam Raimi references where they're nearly lifting it frame for frame from an evil dead movie and a silly Bruce Campbell cameo for no reason whatsoever (probably one of the best parts of the film to be fair). You need to have watched a post credit scene from a tv series to have a clue whats going on with Wanda and it still amounts to 'shes evil now, deal with it'. It felt interchangable to spiderman or even the last half hour of shang chi and the 20 other films they've made because they've slowly stripped away the parts that differentiate their films while rehashing the same stuff.

Click to expand...

flameinthesun said:

I respect that, it's all subjective by the way. For me having watched everything Marvel puts out, I thought this one was a bit mediocre. The reason being is because I think it deviated too much away from the marvel formula and aesthetic. In other words it was too much of a Sam Raimi film (the close ups, wanda being a stalking monster, zombie references etc), which I know a lot of people liked but for me it shouldn't feel like a raimi film, but rather a marvel film. If I want to watch a sam raimi film then id watch a sam raimi film. For me the key to the MCU is in the interconnectedness and how every story (most of the time) has consequences or leads into the next. This felt too much of a departure from that way. For me the best solo film that they have released since black panther/thor 3 is Shang Chi. That introduced new elements, new characters but had the marvel aesthetic etc. Its a bit like how you know what to expect from pixar, but you still enjoy it (if you're into pixar).

Now, when I want a mature take on super heroes I switch on batman, the boys or invincible. And if I want a movie with more emotional depth or complex then I go and watch one of the many good dramas, horrors etc out there that people keep saying are dissappeaing yet Im seeing more of them than ever. I think a lot of people think fans of the mcu only watch the mcu/superhero films, when in reality the mcu/superhero films is but one of many genres I and many people consume.

Click to expand...

OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:

Just watched this, admittedly several rum and cokes deep, and I haven't got a clue what just happened.

Jim Halpert got old.

Click to expand...