Qatar World Cup to use semi-automated offside technology

UnrelatedPsuedo

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danamann said:
If you have to give one thing to FIFA, it is their excellent usage of new technology. I remember last World Cup, where VAR was just introduced, and everybody was convinced it was going to be a disaster as well. But on the contrary, everything went really smooth, better than any league had done so far. The issue is not VAR, the issue is the incredibly incompetent FA and their refs who still haven't figured out how to use it properly after 4 years.
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I do agree. But the thing we agree on is what makes me a VAR critic.

If a technology can’t be adopted in the same way by the entirety of the sport, it should be refined/revised until it can. VAR being used differently in each country is frankly insane. just rolling out new solutions adhoc is so stupid. Currently there are different interpretations of VAR inside individual football bodies. It’s silly.

I’m a realist. I know that people want to pretend it’s ‘Best idea wins’. But National associations aren’t adapting fast enough.

The last truly positive change to football was the pass back rule. Someone will probably string me up and point out an association that delayed it for ages. But from what I remember, it was a global change that hugely improved the entire sport.

Perhaps this new iteration of tech in offside rulings really does go well. But if it’s not accepted by everywhere, all at once, it’s not ready. I’m setting a high bar. But so what?
 

Cloud7

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This sounds cool. I look forward to seeing it in action.
 

jeff_goldblum

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rcoobc said:
Offsides should be head and feet only. No armpits and knees being offside
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It should be any part of the body with which you can legally play the ball. Who gives a shit if someone's lower arm/hand is offside, what advantage could possibly be conferred?
 

cyberman

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Good. Feck this thick line nonsense. Take away the playing in and proper offsides won’t rankle as much. When it’s allowed go play in and it’s brought back for a toenail being off it stands out so much more
 

kthanksbye

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If Pierluigi Collina is saying it's ready, I'm not going to argue with him.
 

kthanksbye

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Knees? Shoulders? Chest?

I do see your point but it’s still including vague rules.

Personally, I still think that (while stupid), the offside rule that mentioned ‘daylight’ between two players had merit.

If we’re implementing this level of tech, simply using players feet and adding a 5-20cm tolerance would be great for the game. If I lean forward to play you offside and you lean towards goal but my feet are closer to my own goal… you beat me. That’s cool. There’s a skill element involved.

We are still obsessed with absolute perfection even if it’s detrimental to the spectacle. We are adding tech solutions to pre-tech rules. It’s silly in My opinion.
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This is what I always thought, it could be as simple as heels and toes and nothing else. That's all you have to monitor when looking at a close offside call.
 

limerickcitykid

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jeff_goldblum said:
It should be any part of the body with which you can legally play the ball. Who gives a shit if someone's lower arm/hand is offside, what advantage could possibly be conferred?
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That’s already what the rule is.

No one gives a shit about someone’s hand being offside because it isn’t possible.
 

therealtboy

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Some of you guys moan for the sake of it, I was at 70% of the Arab cup games and it was fine. VAR wasn’t a total farce for offsides at least. For penalties and other decisions it was the same crap.
 

NicolaSacco

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Trex said:
Wouldn't this eliminate the use of linesmen?
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I’d think the technology is there to eliminate the use of any on-pitch official. Not that this will actually happen but it’s possible. I’m struggling to think of a situation where you actually need a body physically on the pitch.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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NicolaSacco said:
I’d think the technology is there to eliminate the use of any on-pitch official. Not that this will actually happen but it’s possible. I’m struggling to think of a situation where you actually need a body physically on the pitch.
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To rule on intent…. We are years away from AI that advanced.
 

SungSam7

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Regardless how well it goes, idiots are going too argue about any call.

Evidence? I play 7 a side twice a week and people have been shown when the ball is technically out and they still scream the ball is out when a millimeter of the ball goes over the line. No faith that everyone will believe in it.
 

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
To rule on intent…. We are years away from AI that advanced.
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I explained myself badly- I mean having a physical person on the actual pitch, rather than just a person sitting at a bunch of cameras surrounded by all the tech.
 

rcoobc

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Knees? Shoulders? Chest?

I do see your point but it’s still including vague rules.

Personally, I still think that (while stupid), the offside rule that mentioned ‘daylight’ between two players had merit.

If we’re implementing this level of tech, simply using players feet and adding a 5-20cm tolerance would be great for the game. If I lean forward to play you offside and you lean towards goal but my feet are closer to my own goal… you beat me. That’s cool. There’s a skill element involved.

We are still obsessed with absolute perfection even if it’s detrimental to the spectacle. We are adding tech solutions to pre-tech rules. It’s silly in My opinion.
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Yeah none of that

Head and feet only for me.
jeff_goldblum said:
It should be any part of the body with which you can legally play the ball. Who gives a shit if someone's lower arm/hand is offside, what advantage could possibly be conferred?
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It should head and feet. Sure you can score from chest and knees, but let's make it simple. Feet and head.
 

JuriM

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Don't we have full World Cup topic yet? Anyway, what's this about ain't the host nation playing first been a norm so far, why so late changes?
 

FatTails

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Angry upvote. Feck the Qatar WC, but this is a move in the right direction.
 

DRJosh

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They should just do away with the offside rule completely. Opens the game up. Although I’d imagine this would be a nightmare for someone like Maguire who is positionally poor
 

justsomebloke

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diarm said:
I think it should be that if any part of the attacker is onside, he's onside.

I don't understand why in so many cases, the advantage is given to defenders over attackers.
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Sorry, but that would surely be a very bad idea - you could leave your arm sticking out trailing and legally gain half a meter on the defender. It would essentially negate the main purpose of the whole rule.
 

diarm

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justsomebloke said:
Sorry, but that would surely be a very bad idea - you could leave your arm sticking out trailing and legally gain half a meter on the defender. It would essentially negate the main purpose of the whole rule.
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Nah it wouldn't.

The purpose of the rule is to prevent goal hanging - not to reward carefully choreographed defensive lines from stepping forward at the same time, rather than actually defending. Giving attackers half a meter advantage and removing the tedium of is it / isn't it offside calls by having a clear daylight rule would only be good for the game.
 

justsomebloke

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DRJosh said:
They should just do away with the offside rule completely. Opens the game up. Although I’d imagine this would be a nightmare for someone like Maguire who is positionally poor
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That would not open the game up. But it would ruin it as a coherent team game.
 

justsomebloke

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diarm said:
Nah it wouldn't.

The purpose of the rule is to prevent goal hanging - not to reward carefully choreographed defensive lines from stepping forward at the same time, rather than actually defending. Giving attackers half a meter advantage and removing the tedium of is it / isn't it offside calls by having a clear daylight rule would only be good for the game.
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It would undercut the purpose by giving attackers a positional advantage over defenders. Which, by the way, would have to be countered by more defensive tactics.
 

diarm

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justsomebloke said:
It would undercut the purpose by giving attackers a positional advantage over defenders. Which, by the way, would have to be countered by more defensive tactics.
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I don't mind defensive tactics, once they are based around actual defensive footballing play. In fact I'm a big fan of them.

I just don't believe giving the greater advantage surrounding something that takes no footballing talent (maintaining and choreographing an offside line) to the defence is good for the game. The original purpose of the rule - to prevent goal hanging, is a good one. Giving the defender any more advantage than that is unnecessary.

You're acting like it's a massive advantage when it really isn't - the length of an arm is feck all difference in the grand scheme of things.

What is your justification for the current model, whereby the defender just needs to get any playing part of his body past the attacker to benefit from an offside call? It's harder and more complicated to adjudicate and it rewards easy, non-footballing defending for no good reason.
 

justsomebloke

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I don't really see that an offside line is a non-footballing play, nor that it requires no talent to implement effectively.

You don't think an arm length's head start in a sprinting duel is a big advantage for an attacker?

And sorry, it will not be any easier at all to officiate such a rule than it is at present. In fact, determining if any part of the body is onside is essentially exactly the same challenge as determining if any part of the body is offside. It's no easier to find out if a heel is on level with a defender's toe than it is to find out if a nose is ahead of a defenders forehead.
 

Problem-free Philosophy

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diarm said:
I don't mind defensive tactics, once they are based around actual defensive footballing play. In fact I'm a big fan of them.

I just don't believe giving the greater advantage surrounding something that takes no footballing talent (maintaining and choreographing an offside line) to the defence is good for the game. The original purpose of the rule - to prevent goal hanging, is a good one. Giving the defender any more advantage than that is unnecessary.

You're acting like it's a massive advantage when it really isn't - the length of an arm is feck all difference in the grand scheme of things.

What is your justification for the current model, whereby the defender just needs to get any playing part of his body past the attacker to benefit from an offside call? It's harder and more complicated to adjudicate and it rewards easy, non-footballing defending for no good reason.
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Successfully executing an offside trap (with millimetre precision, no less!) seems like a valid footballing talent to me. And for every example of a toe or knee or sleeve being offside there's almost certainly one where the attacker has been onside by the same sort of fine margins.

Your suggestion would suffer the same scrutiny the first time an attacker is 'onside' by their outstretched fingertips.
 

calodo2003

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justsomebloke said:
I don't really see that an offside line is a non-footballing play, nor that it requires no talent to implement effectively.

You don't think an arm length's head start in a sprinting duel is a big advantage for an attacker?

And sorry, it will not be any easier at all to officiate such a rule than it is at present. In fact, determining if any part of the body is onside is essentially exactly the same challenge as determining if any part of the body is offside. It's no easier to find out if a heel is on level with a defender's toe than it is to find out if a nose is ahead of a defenders forehead.
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But at least it is a paradigm shift to more offensive football.
 

justsomebloke

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calodo2003 said:
But at least it is a paradigm shift to more offensive football.
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More like a paradigm shift away from defensive lines and to sweepers and man-marking, in my view.

With the attacker getting a head start, defensive lines would be way more vulnerable, and hence less effective. You'd have to deal with that either by playing a much lower line (which would be detrimental to your ability to attack), or maybe give up zonal coverage altogether and man-mark, and if you gave up on offside-trapping as an effective tactic anyway, you might as well use a sweeper, to always stay behind the frontmost oppo attacker? That doesn't sound like a more offensive form of football to me. It sounds more like 1970/80s Germany. Specifically, it'd be much more difficult to play a compact team shape, and you'd have fewer players involved in attacks.
 
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