Napoli president rules out signing Africans committed to Nations Cup

AjaxCunian

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Huh? Long term injuries suffered on international duty aren't rare, the chances of suffering such an injury while playing a tournament(minimum 3 games), on another continent, are obvioisly not negligible, and they affect a club's season. The club that actually pays for the player in question. This boils down to "international football is bad for me, owner of a football club, and the afcon is especially bad because it's a damn tournament on a different continent smack in the middle of the season". It's all the usual gnashing of teeth about international football magnified by a tournament in the middle of the club season that already costs you players for several games on top of the inherent risks and complications of international duty
I don't think the chances are any higher than when the player stays in Europe and I've seen nothing to suggest it is to be honest.

Can't even recall many recent examples of African players who play in Europe that came back injured. Let alone a significant higher frequency than which players get injured anyway. But might not have been paying attention.
 

antohan

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But clearly some hiring practices are prejudiced and discriminatory, not just your standard run of the mill merit based hire. Losing out on a job because someone else was a better candidate is fine but if the reason you were the undesirable candidate was your race, gender, sexuality etc then that isn’t just something you brush off as ‘a standard selection process’.
None of those apply here.

It is as valid for Napoli to rule out Afcon eligible players as it is for any company to rule out non-EU CV just because getting a work permit is a pain in the arse.

It's discrimination for practical reasons, not prejudice.
 

antohan

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Strange that so many people don't see anything wrong with an employer in a country with a long and sad history of racism against africans saying "I wont employ africans because of reasons that are beyond their control". Isn't that the textbook definition of discrimination?
Except that he does say if they pledge not to take part in Afcon it's all fine and dandy. That's under their control. Harsh, but what it boils down to.
 

antohan

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I'm pretty sure SAF didn't usually sign player from the African continent because he didn't want to lose them in the middle of the season to AFCon.
It looked pretty obvious to me. The number of times Afcon screwed PL rivals is not insignificant. Arsenal and Chelsea used to get hit really badly.
 

MalaysianRed7

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Yes. It's great for the fans and players and football associations.

How would less football be beneficial for African football?
Because more players would actually be signed by top teams. I watched Burkina Faso reach the semis of the recent Afcon with a squad where their most famous player sits on the Villa bench (he doesn’t even make that anymore). Teams like Zimbabwe held Mane’s Senegal until the 97th minute or something. Comoros beat a supposedly World Cup level team in Ghana. Sierra Leone didn’t even lose to Algeria or Ivory Coast. So much unearthed talent that is most likely not being signed by the top clubs due to how frequently they have to be away, particularly since they likely won’t be starting players immediately due to them being unproven.
Some absolute mental posts in this thread, very Eurocentric.

Look at how many African teams participate in the World Cup, give your head a wobble, and then contemplate again whether having the African Cup every 4 years makes sense.

And no, it won't be moved to the summer permanently either, you exclude a lot of countries potentially hosting it as well. They could try alternating but that would make it very irregular.

Napoli's loss, it would be a shame for any African youth player in there academy who might dream of playing for Napoli.
South America and Asia have the exact same allocation for the World Cup, and they have no problem organising it every 4 years aside from the random additional tournament CONMEBOL put in place over the last decade. Also, have you ever thought that clubs might be avoiding African players for that reason, as per my reply to Adexkola, and just not making it as explicit as De Laurentiis?
 

giorno

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I don't think the chances are any higher than when the player stays in Europe and I've seen nothing to suggest it is to be honest.
Again: there's a world of difference between a player getting injured while playing for his employer vs a player getting injured on national duty. What's hard to understand about that?

Can't even recall many recent examples of African players who play in Europe that came back injured. Let alone a significant higher frequency than which players get injured anyway. But might not have been paying attention.
Sure, it does seem a bit overblown. Hell i don't even expect DeLa to actually stop signing african players either. Man says a lot of shit
 

duffer

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It looked pretty obvious to me. The number of times Afcon screwed PL rivals is not insignificant. Arsenal and Chelsea used to get hit really badly.
Losing Essien, Mikel, Kalou and Drogba was always frustrating from a selfish point of view for sure.

I can't honestly tell you if we really dropped too many points because of it though.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Except that he does say if they pledge not to take part in Afcon it's all fine and dandy. That's under their control. Harsh, but what it boils down to.
Yes, but if representing your country means anything to you as a footballer, you obviously won't make such a pledge.

It's not some frivolous activity you choose to participate in (because you fancy it) on a semi-yearly basis - it's actually more comparable to a duty (for a top footballer from X, it could be easily seen as a duty to football fans from X, if nothing else).
 

izec

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He can do whatever he wants, it is his club. If he wants to buy blue haired virgins, all the best to him. Athletic are only buying players with Basque connection.
 

SilentWitness

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Though understandable that clubs wouldn't want too many top African players being key members of their side due to them having to leave at a crucial stage of the season, it doesn't make it right. The only way the African game can develop is through more football and coverage and they put on an excellent show this year. It's very disrespectful to disregard how much that means to the continent, the fans and the players and gets into xenephobic behaviour such as the Napoli president in this case. The argument for having it spread over 4 years falls down for me as they are far behind the Euros in terms of quality and coverage + they get far less teams at the World Cup compared to Europe so there is less chance of their teams playing in a big tournament.
 
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NoLogo

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Strange that so many people don't see anything wrong with an employer in a country with a long and sad history of racism against africans saying "I wont employ africans because of reasons that are beyond their control". Isn't that the textbook definition of discrimination?
It is, but then on the other hand, it's not surprising that so many people see an issue with it. Sad, but not surprising.
 

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This would make more sense if we didn't just cancel the entire football calender to have the world cup in fecking Qatar.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Athletic are only buying players with Basque connection.
That's a very special case - and the policy is controversial.

At any rate, they don't actually discriminate against anyone based on nationality (and certainly not based on which national team you represent).
 

Shunty

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This would make more sense if we didn't just cancel the entire football calender to have the world cup in fecking Qatar.
fully agree. On a normal season though it normally has some sort of bearing on it. Look at salah and mane last season they were missing for a period of time. I know fergie used to bear it in mind when signing players. But let’s face it if your good enough any team would buy you. Prime ronaldo or maradonna you wouldn’t care less if they missed three weeks.
 

Bole Top

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I don't see the problem personally. it's his club, he can sign who he wants and to be honest, some people needs to grow up and stop seeing racism in every fecking thing because it's tiring. seriously. especially when nobody is making a big deal about Bilbao. if anything, they're romantic club worth admiration to majority of football fans even though they refuse to hire a much wider % of players than Napoli (if Laurentiis even stays true to his words).
 

SilentWitness

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I don't see the problem personally. it's his club, he can sign who he wants and to be honest, some people needs to grow up and stop seeing racism in every fecking thing because it's tiring. seriously. especially when nobody is making a big deal about Bilbao. if anything, they're romantic club worth admiration to majority of football fans even though they refuse to hire a much wider % of players than Napoli (if Laurentiis even stays true to his words).
While I think that Bilbao is not without controversy, it's not the same as this at all.
 

Bole Top

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While I think that Bilbao is not without controversy, it's not the same as this at all.
Bilbao literally don't want anyone who isn't Basq in their club, while Napoli don't want only players participating in African cup. first is perfectly acceptable, while the other is racism and discrimination. caf logic.
 

SilentWitness

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Bilbao literally don't want anyone who isn't Basq in their club, while Napoli don't want only players participating in African cup. first is perfectly acceptable, while the other is racism and discrimination. caf logic.
I've not said either are acceptable. There is a case that both aren't.

Bilbao have followed this ethos since the early 1900s. It is a club policy and they don't discriminate based on a players skin colour or what national team they wish to play for.

The Napoli situation is the ethos of one man who is devaluing African football in comparison to other players and nationalities around the world.
 

Bole Top

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I've not said either are acceptable. There is a case that both aren't.

Bilbao have followed this ethos since the early 1900s. It is a club policy and they don't discriminate based on a players skin colour or what national team they wish to play for.
but they "discriminate" on other basis, which Napoli don't. Napoli (their president) don't care where you were born, or about your skin colour or race as long as you aren't absent in the middle of the season and that's it. he wants his players available, not white/black/Basq. he may sound disrespectful to Africans but tbf, it's logical his only concern is Napoli. and despite what he says, I'm fully convinced that if he finds talented player from Africa, he will still sign it regardless.
 

Cal?

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but they "discriminate" on other basis, which Napoli don't. Napoli (their president) don't care where you were born, or about your skin colour or race as long as you aren't absent in the middle of the season and that's it. he wants his players available, not white/black/Basq. he may sound disrespectful to Africans but tbf, it's logical his only concern is Napoli. and despite what he says, I'm fully convinced that if he finds talented player from Africa, he will still sign it regardless.
and try to convince him to play for France or whichever European nation willing to give him a passport
 

Bole Top

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and try to convince him to play for France or whichever European nation willing to give him a passport
also in his right. he's dealing with grown up men, they don't have to sign for Napoli if they don't want to. they have thousands of clubs to choose from.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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Would it not make life easier if the competition moved to every 4 years like the euros?
I think it's mainly due to the fact that it takes place in the middle of the domestic season, rather than the frequency with which it's hosted.
Imagine a scenario where 7 starters have to disappear for an international tournament in December. Not only do you lose them for a crucial stretch of the season, but there's a chance one or multiple of them would get knocks and miss even further time out even after the tournament concludes.
 

SilentWitness

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but they "discriminate" on other basis, which Napoli don't. Napoli (their president) don't care where you were born, or about your skin colour or race as long as you aren't absent in the middle of the season and that's it. he wants his players available, not white/black/Basq. he may sound disrespectful to Africans but tbf, it's logical his only concern is Napoli. and despite what he says, I'm fully convinced that if he finds talented player from Africa, he will still sign it regardless.
I think the nuance of the situation is that they aren't trying to actively discriminate against anyone in their Basque policy. It isn't about discriminating against others, it's about wanting the Basque element. They don't say we don't want Africans or Asians or Nigerians or Argentinians etc., they say we want Basque players. In the Napoli situation it's actively opposing against having African players, he's saying "no african players". It's difficult to explain but hopefully that offers what I'm trying to get across.
 

antk

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Bilbao do not discriminate against populations that are already discriminated in all other parts of life. Nobody avoids hiring someone or selling a house to someone because they're not Basq.

If you think they're comparable postures, you're refusing to engage with what racism and discrimination really entails in society and you'll obviously not understand why people are unhappy with De Laurentiis' statement.
 

Bole Top

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In the Napoli situation it's actively opposing against having African players, he's saying "no african players". It's difficult to explain but hopefully that offers what I'm trying to get across.
african players that will leave them in the middle of the season. those same players are prefectly fine regardless of their skin colour/race/beliefs as long as they are present (at Napoli). he may sound disrespectful but this has nothing to do with racism.
 

JPRouve

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and try to convince him to play for France or whichever European nation willing to give him a passport
Why is France mentioned here? :lol:


Regarding Athletic, their policy isn't about signing basq people, it's about promoting local kids and basq decents. As long as you have been developed in Basq country or have basq origins, you interest them regardless of your nationality or skin color.
 

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african players that will leave them in the middle of the season. those same players are prefectly fine regardless of their skin colour/race/beliefs as long as they are present (at Napoli). he may sound disrespectful but this has nothing to do with racism.
Which is reaching xenephobic behaviour as it's disregarding the importance of that competition to those african players and their cultures.
 

JPRouve

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Which is reaching xenephobic behaviour as it's disregarding the importance of that competition to those african players and their cultures.
I haven't listened to what he actually said but the concept of not signing players due to competition calendars is not xenophobic nor racist, to me it's a pretty big stretch. To some extent it's comparable to Rugby certain national teams not selecting players that are abroad simply because it's not the most practical.
 

AjaxCunian

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Because more players would actually be signed by top teams. I watched Burkina Faso reach the semis of the recent Afcon with a squad where their most famous player sits on the Villa bench (he doesn’t even make that anymore). Teams like Zimbabwe held Mane’s Senegal until the 97th minute or something. Comoros beat a supposedly World Cup level team in Ghana. Sierra Leone didn’t even lose to Algeria or Ivory Coast. So much unearthed talent that is most likely not being signed by the top clubs due to how frequently they have to be away, particularly since they likely won’t be starting players immediately due to them being unproven.

South America and Asia have the exact same allocation for the World Cup, and they have no problem organising it every 4 years aside from the random additional tournament CONMEBOL put in place over the last decade. Also, have you ever thought that clubs might be avoiding African players for that reason, as per my reply to Adexkola, and just not making it as explicit as De Laurentiis?
There is no evidence for the second argument that you give, and for example, South America qualifiers consist of 10 nations. Compare that to the qualifiers of the African nations. It is not even in the same stratosfeer.

A lot of strong African nations miss out on the World Cup, it would be awful for them to play in a big tournament only every 4 years.
 

AjaxCunian

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Again: there's a world of difference between a player getting injured while playing for his employer vs a player getting injured on national duty. What's hard to understand about that?


Sure, it does seem a bit overblown. Hell i don't even expect DeLa to actually stop signing african players either. Man says a lot of shit
Sure it feels different, as fans we are emotional and irrational so I understand that. But in reality I don't think it really is when you consider how, when, and how often injuries happen.

What a world of difference is, is a player playing for your team during a season, or playing for their nation during the season. I think that's a valid argument.
 

SilentWitness

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I haven't listened to what he actually said but the concept of not signing players due to competition calendars is not xenophobic nor racist, to me it's a pretty big stretch. To some extent it's comparable to Rugby certain national teams not selecting players that are abroad simply because it's not the most practical.
Personally I think it is when you're saying we will only sign you if you agree not to play in this competition. It's devaluing something which is quite important to those players.
 

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Not sure about this stance, though I reckon Fergie didn't like the idea of losing players mid season to the ACN either to the point where it made him reluctant to sign many African players.

But the African nations cup is odd, it doesn't need to be played every 2 years and it probably shouldn't be played in January/February. That's summer in Africa and it's also slap bang in the middle of most African countries club seasons, their Champions League runs from September to May. So you'd think moving it to July or August would make more sense.
 

JPRouve

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Sure it feels different, as fans we are emotional and irrational so I understand that. But in reality I don't think it really is when you consider how, when, and how often injuries happen.

What a world of difference is, is a player playing for your team during a season, or playing for their nation during the season. I think that's a valid argument.
I agree on the idea that it's somewhat similar but it actually makes things simpler. Clubs will definitely discriminate a player that is guaranteed to be injured for a sustained period of time every other year. That player is likely to get worse contract offers and cheaper transfer fees offers.
 

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All clubs are factoring that in when considering african players and many probably have the same view as De Laurentiis. I don't think it's something to be outraged about.
 

JPRouve

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Personally I think it is when you're saying we will only sign you if you agree not to play in this competition. It's devaluing something which is quite important to those players.
That's the part I disagree with, he should stay away from the players and not try to pressure them into not playing for their national teams. Though the NHL is giving us a bad example of that.