McFred as a midfield duo heading into 2022/23 season

Oh joy, back to watching several midfielders miles better than these two playing for smaller clubs week in week out.

Only thing I can hope is that Garner and Iqbal and Savage are given a fair chance. If they are, it won't take much time to show the manager and everyone with eyes that McFred is not, and will never be, the answer in midfield.

Tired of the term McFred being used. Fred is so clear of McT. He should not be lumped in with him. Fred can and has done a good job for us. We need a #6 and we will be fine.

tjb said:

He does. I'm not sure its necessarily hiding, but he really has poor positional awareness on and off the ball. That means if we play out of the back, especially in a double pivot, Mctominay presents a gap in our build up, which affects us, especially in games where we are dealing with more pressure from the opposition. The fact with Mctominay is he really should be nowhere near the starting lineup for United and if I'm being honest, I don't think he's versatile enough for our bench either. Positioning and off the ball movement are the most important tools to a midfielder in the modern game and he just doesn't have it.

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MadDogg said:

Nobody can know if he does it deliberately (presumably because he doesn't trust himself to take the ball on and play it forward) or if it's an accidental thing he doesn't realise he's doing, but the end result is the same. Scott constantly makes himself basically impossible to pass to because he moves behind opposition players. Many of us were talking about it long before that video was made. It is especially noticeable when we are trying to play out from the back, as he makes it far more difficult than it should be with his terrible positioning and movement. It's not like he just finds himself in these positions, he actively moves and jogs around staying behind opposition players the entire time.

It's something that he needs to improve, but he hasn't really shown any improvement in the years that he's been in the first team yet. In saying that, it sadly wouldn't surprise me much if the previous managers and coaching set-up never even really worked on it, whereas I have no doubt that ETH will be focusing on it.

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You are both entitled to your point of view, but as of yet I haven't seen any evidence supporting this conclusion having watched him play similar midfield roles both for Manchester United and Scotland. I am open to reconsidering that point of view if you wish to point me in the direction of some convincing evidence - otherwise I am content to maintain my own judgement on this topic.

nau05194 said:

You are both entitled to your point of view, but as of yet I haven't seen any evidence supporting this conclusion having watched him play similar midfield roles both for Manchester United and Scotland. I am open to reconsidering that point of view if you wish to point me in the direction of some convincing evidence - otherwise I am content to maintain my own judgement on this topic.

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I mean, just watch him when he plays.

Statistically, he consistently gets on the ball about 20% less than any of our other midfielders. Last season he averaged 59 touches of the ball a game, which put him in the 46th percentile for central midfielders in Europe's top five leagues. A Man Utd central midfielder is in the bottom half in his position for how much he touches the ball. To put that in context, Fred and Pogba were around the 78th percentile, with Matic in the 90th. Even if we go back to the previous season when we played much better, Scott was still only in the 59th percentile, compared to the 83rd, 81st and 94th respectively for the other three.

The video you talked about (which I'll post here for you) unfortunately doesn't show any actual examples of it happening, but from memory does explain well what he tends to do.


I wish I could remember what match it was (I think it was late 20/21 but may have been early last season) which had the most perfect example of it I've ever seen. I'd love to go back and clip it out just to have something to show what I'm talking about. The ball started of with Shaw on the left. McTominay was the closest midfielder, but he was standing behind an opposition player who was cutting off the passing angles. Shaw passed it inside to Maguire, and as that opposition player moved across Scott continued behind him. Maguire passed it to Lindelof, and both Scott and the opposition player jogged across the field. Lindelof then passed it to AWB, and that opposition player then moved forward to cut off a different passing angle...so Scott instantly then jogged over and stood behind a different opposition player. A good 30 seconds or so of play, going through four different players across the entire width of the field, and our central midfielder spent the entire time taking himself out of the game so the defenders couldn't pass it to him. It was absolutely amazing, and if I didn't already shave my head I swear I would have been pulling my hair out in frustration.

He does have some matches where he actually makes himself available and looks to get on the ball quite well. Not often and it's certainly not his 'normal', but it does happen. That is both the most annoying thing (if he does it occasionally why doesn't he do it all the time?) and the thing that gives some hope that he can be trained to do it all the time.

I’d much rather we started with Garner and Fred against Brighton today seeing as Garner is much more of a deep lying playmaker in a Carrick mould so is closer to De Jong and the style of play ETH wants to implement for us.

Obviously we still need De Jong or someone similar and more experienced but the whole McTominay and Fred playing together thing has to fecking stop as it has been shown countless times over the short and long term to simply not work, we’re overrun in midfield by practically everyone we play against.

So we’re going into the new season with the McFred combo again. Our rivals must be howling with laughter.

RopersReturn said:

So we’re going into the new season with the McFred combo again. Our rivals must be howling with laughter.

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Really annoying posts like this. Total lack of knowledge putting McTominay into one sentence with Fred. One is a very poor championship player stealing a living here, second is one of our TOP3-5 player past 3 years.

But even the dumbest posters will see it once we finally shift McTominay to the bench and out of the squad by the end of the season that Fred is absolutely key player despite us being short in midfield for the second spot and him playing again out of position because we didn't land a more natural no6.

I think Fred has already shown recently that he is a much better footballer than the one we've seen in his earlier days in United's colours.
Wasn't he supposed to be a b2b at Shakhtar.
So what do we do...first Mou treats him like shit. then Ole says just go out there and be our Kante.


I feel he was forced to learn a destroyer role without any real coaching...hence the headless chicken approach, made even more chaotic, trying to do the work of 2 midfielders on occasions. yes he made mistakes but at least he always shows for the ball and then looks forward.
Hopefully EtH can harness that energy in a more productive manner.
Can a Fred, Eriksen, Bruno midfield work?
with the forwards mucking in/pressing to help win the ball then the above three, retaining, recycling the ball in a proactive fashion to create openings. i.e. passing it forward, instead of back to Maggie & Linda who will pass back and forth to each other for a couple of minutes while pointing at something all the while I get more nervous as the opposition approach...Scary mov(I)es

Or is it McFred and one of Bruno or Eriksen.

Can Mcfred learn to control the midfield with Erik's coaching?

Scott, sorry but I'm just not feeling him! I've tried and will wait and see how he plays under EtH before finally giving up.
But Scott just seems too limited to be a Man United midfielder. Unfortunately we don't have Fergie, who made players of that quality more of an asset than a passenger in the team.
Personally I'd try Garner instead.

As everyone else, I'm just as eager to see how different the same players from last season will look under EtH.
Let's see if Erik can find that wedding ring ya toddler accidently swallowed or is he going to end up crying at the shitty mess in front of him with not a glint of a gem in sight.

Let's wait until he plays the mcfred combo a few times before judging. So for now it's back to ...
"Run McFred...run!!"

Mct has his drawbacks but I think it's all a scapegoat. Like Fred, they both have their positives which would make them useful squad player but that is about it going by past performances. I do feel the majority are overly analytical and critical of mcT but turn a blind eye to Fred's weaknesses. I think McFred is a justified title as they are a midfield 2 and neither is really doing enough to be regulars or warrant many positives. When Fred plays more advanced he is adequate but that's about it. People are entitled to their opinions but I feel its a case of the Fred tinted glasses. If we are handing out by balls to Fred I genuinely think we need a bit of the same for Scott. I'd say I'm in the minority but I think/hope EtH can get the best out of him and turn a few opinions

Depressing, isn’t it? What a shambles.

GL21 said:

Mct has his drawbacks but I think it's all a scapegoat.

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There was a game last season where it took him over 30 minutes to complete a pass in a half of football. He isn’t being scapegoated into those kind of displays. Seriously boring hearing people make excuses for this guy like this when countless other players have been scapegoated in recent years with no such defence.

nau05194 said:

You are both entitled to your point of view, but as of yet I haven't seen any evidence supporting this conclusion having watched him play similar midfield roles both for Manchester United and Scotland. I am open to reconsidering that point of view if you wish to point me in the direction of some convincing evidence - otherwise I am content to maintain my own judgement on this topic.

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Its especially obvious he does it when you are watching from the stadium. It's as if he is marking the opponent players incase we lose the ball and he has to run to cover. But it often leaves us a man down. Playing the ball out from the back.

The stats prove this as well since he touches the ball less than most of the midfielders in Europe.

nau05194 said:

You are both entitled to your point of view, but as of yet I haven't seen any evidence supporting this conclusion having watched him play similar midfield roles both for Manchester United and Scotland. I am open to reconsidering that point of view if you wish to point me in the direction of some convincing evidence - otherwise I am content to maintain my own judgement on this topic.

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Cant find it but there was a clip showing exactly how he kept hiding from the ball when our CBs were trying to play it forward. There is evidence.

ayushreddevil9 said:

Cant find it but there was a clip showing exactly how he kept hiding from the ball when our CBs were trying to play it forward. There is evidence.

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I confirm, there was such clip. I think it emerged after RR appoitment

Kag said:

Depressing, isn’t it? What a shambles.

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And cm was a piority for this summer

TDK said:

I would love to know who first came up with the line that McTominay "hides". As it's utter nonsense.

No professional player "hides" from the ball. The problem is his spacial awareness. But that can be corrected via coaching and analysis.

Do people not realise that we now have a manager worthy of the name? So could you please wait till the season has started before getting into a hissy fit?

Seriously. It genuinely feels like some people get a high from tearing certain players to shreds.

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It's different to symbolize the same thing more or less. Not that much of an issue

AFC NimbleThumb said:

There was a game last season where it took him over 30 minutes to complete a pass in a half of football. He isn’t being scapegoated into those kind of displays. Seriously boring hearing people make excuses for this guy like this when countless other players have been scapegoated in recent years with no such defence.

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Just as boring hearing all the Fred defence in comparison when he has had some 2 out 10 performances

I still can’t believe we’re heading into the first game with McFred likely our first choice midfield. Shambles.

All summer I said that this would be the case, but I don't think I really fully believed it would actually happen.

If you really analyse what has happened it's really quite shocking. McFred remain our midfield duo for yet another season. We'll likely rely on the 'talents' of Martial in the CF position for much of the season. Maguire will still be our Captain and our first team is almost the same as last season aside from the three whole signings that we made in order to fix the complete mess we were in... None of which were a midfielder. Again.

If it wasn't for Ten Hag then you'd have to say we've weakened over the summer, but there is a glimmer of hope from a manager who clearly knows what he's doing in terms of coaching. I just hope we're not throwing him under the bus with this lack of ambition.

It's a disgrace from everybody involved. And it's not just that. There's still no proper right winger and we don't have modern attacking full backs.

Yet another ridiculous failure from one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Add to the bonfire of incompetence.

After the recent posts it'd be funny if EtH starts with a midfield of Fred, Eriksen and Bruno

Personally suspect it will be Fred and McTominay for a few more games though.

If the club have a below par season these two will be the culprits. Lack technical ability, neither read the game well defensively, Fred is perhaps one of the worst players in world football when receiving the ball on the half turn, Mctomminay has no range of passing. It's ridiculous.

Depressingly inevitable.

Imagine the dogs abuse you would have gotten in May if you had said McFred (and potentially Martial) was going to start the 1st game of the season...

Vapor trail said:

If the club have a below par season these two will be the culprits. Lack technical ability, neither read the game well defensively, Fred is perhaps one of the worst players in world football when receiving the ball on the half turn, Mctomminay has no range of passing. It's ridiculous.

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Aye. Everyone talks about defending but forgets the fact that if your midfield can keep the ball for 90 passes every time they pick it up it really limits the scope for the opposition to attack you in the game. If no one comes in there will be trouble again

I hope all the posters saying Mcfred isn't a thing anymore are lining up with their apologies.

Eriksen is a No.10 not a CM, this is obvious to anyone that's watched him. Sure he can play as an 8 in some games but not often.

McFredriksendes

This Midfield has been an absolute failure from day 1 like 3+ years ago and it still gets played and we still refuse to buy anyone despite then being mainstays in the worst United in forever.

This club needs to stop taking the piss.

We now have a worse Midfield and attack than last year. Well fecking done.

#herewego

I’m genuinely baffled that this can still be our midfield in the opening game of the season.

Rebuilding by starting the season with McFred. Shambles.

Good team, I hope we stuff them 3-0. Happy to see Martinez, Eriksen and Sancho in the XI.
I like the idea of Bruno on the left in the “Pogba role” from the Ole days.
Time for Sancho to step it up in the league and show what a great player he is.

Lets go!

I hope today is the start of people realizing that McFred was not the alpha and omega of all the issues that Utd encountered last season.

I find it so insulting that Fred is lumped in with McTominay by so many of our fans. Fred is so clear

If Murtough had any balls he should buy at least one midfielder and tell TH we probably wont get DeJong, so we have signed xxx for you, being as you wont choose an alternative. McFred simply aint good enough for where we need to be. No other top 8 team would have them.

Of all the shocking failures of this club in the last decade, going into the first game of the new season with the most promising manager we’ve had since SAF without any midfield signings and starting McFred is surely well up there.

Incompetence at an insane level.

CloneMC16 said:

Tired of the term McFred being used. Fred is so clear of McT. He should not be lumped in with him. Fred can and has done a good job for us. We need a #6 and we will be fine.

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Didn't one of those annoying YouTube fan channels coined the annoying McFred term?

Another year, another season. Come on McFred let's not be relegation midfield level this season that's all I ask.

McFred was the mainstay of a defensive midfield that got us 2nd in 20/21. Last season was more to do with fitness and confidence rather than talent issues, so lets put this to rest.

Anyway today's midfield is not McFred, its Bruno Fred and McTominay with Fred playing a slightly more defensive role.