And not 5 in total: we would have won 5 CL trophies just in those two finals.
McFred as a midfield duo heading into 2022/23 season
- Thread starter Kush
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Squad for a season is fine, then out the door.
But either or both of them playing the majority of the games would be criminal.
Even though I can't argue with the points you made regarding signing better midfield players and not fielding feckin' Scott McTominay in a starting 11 as a CM, I'll still urge you to be a bit more patient, because I think (more like hope tbh) that Ten Hag sees today's game, his first competitive game as a United Manager, as a lesson and understands that McTominay & Fred aren't good enough to play, especially McTominay who brings zero value as Central Midfielder.
He should've realised McTominay and Fred weren't good enough from watching the video analysis of our matches last season, as well as watching them in training.
It wasn't a McFred midfield. It was a FreTominay midfield.
For some reason, Fred was played at the base where he was out-of-position, and McTominay was played as an AM where he's also unsuited.
EtH played them the wrong way around, and only rectified it in the second half when he took Fred off and dropped McTominay back.
For some reason, Fred was played at the base where he was out-of-position, and McTominay was played as an AM where he's also unsuited.
EtH played them the wrong way around, and only rectified it in the second half when he took Fred off and dropped McTominay back.
The new "there's no value in the market" bullshit.
That's what worried me about ETH, we have years worth of content/data/evidence that shows McT and Fred aren't suited for that particular disposition, never mind the easy eye test that wouldn't even take more than 2-3 games of last season. I don't understand why such easy decision as not to play them both at the same time is something that's hard to do for managers. What's going on ?
McFred were just about average in Ole counter ball, in this possession set up they'll give away double figures turnover every game which is disastrous. We need as many press resistant players as possible all over the pitch if there's any chance of ETH system working out.
Zidane is one player he can throw into that role, but it might just be too early.
If i was ETH next game I'll be going with a midfield of Eriksen VDB with Zidane at the base. Its either that or just go back to counter ball, because no chance of playing possession football with Mcfred and Bruno loosing their shit every time they are under the slightest pressure.
Zidane is one player he can throw into that role, but it might just be too early.
If i was ETH next game I'll be going with a midfield of Eriksen VDB with Zidane at the base. Its either that or just go back to counter ball, because no chance of playing possession football with Mcfred and Bruno loosing their shit every time they are under the slightest pressure.
Every man and his dog knows we’re looking at midfield recruitment before the window shuts. If you can’t raise your game to that pressure and show the manager why you need to keep playing you’ll never make it at a top club.
Limited ability on the pair of them- could be mitigated with a better player next to them, but together it’s just the absolute worst.
Limited ability on the pair of them- could be mitigated with a better player next to them, but together it’s just the absolute worst.
I'm thinking Ten Hag thought his system could mask their awfulness. The preseason made him believe that, and now he got to witness how awful they were under his system.
There is evidence McFred are a relegation level midfield. Let's compare them to other midfields in the league. I may miss some names but the names I will list are those I can remember who will get first team minutes in midfield.
1. City - KDB, Rodri, Gundogan, Bernardo, Phillips.
2. Liverpool - Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Jones.
3. Chelsea - Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, RLC, Gilmour.
4. Arsenal - Partey, Xhaka, Elneny, Lokonga.
5. Spurs - Hojbjerg, Bentancur, Bissouma, Skipp, Winks.
6. West Ham - Rice, Soucek
7. Brighton - Caicedo, Mwepu, Lallana, Macallister
8. Villa - Kamara, Mcginn, Luiz, Ramsey
9. Wolves - Neves, Dendoncker, Moutinho
10. Leicester - Ndidi, Tielemans, Dewsbury-Hall, Mendy, Choudhury.
11. Brentford - Janelt, Jensen, Onyeka, Norgaard, Damsgard.
12. Palace - Milivojevic, Doucoure, Will Hughes, Schlupp, Mcarthur.
13. Southampton - JWP, Romeu, Diallo, Lavia
14. Everton - Doucoure, Allan, Onana
15. Leeds - Roca, Klich, Adams
16. Newcastle - Guimaraes, Willock, Joelinton, Longstaff
17. Fulham - Cairney, Palhinha, Reed.
18. Forest - Colback, O'Brien, Mangala.
19. Bournemouth - Billing, Pearson, Cook, Tavernier.
Out of the 19, i'd say there's only about 3 or 4 midfields that they are comparable to. Forest, Bournemouth, Palace, maybe Brentford. The rest are clearly better. That is the midfield that is unchallenged as the starting midfield at a club of the stature of Manchester United.
1. City - KDB, Rodri, Gundogan, Bernardo, Phillips.
2. Liverpool - Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson, Keita, Milner, Jones.
3. Chelsea - Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic, RLC, Gilmour.
4. Arsenal - Partey, Xhaka, Elneny, Lokonga.
5. Spurs - Hojbjerg, Bentancur, Bissouma, Skipp, Winks.
6. West Ham - Rice, Soucek
7. Brighton - Caicedo, Mwepu, Lallana, Macallister
8. Villa - Kamara, Mcginn, Luiz, Ramsey
9. Wolves - Neves, Dendoncker, Moutinho
10. Leicester - Ndidi, Tielemans, Dewsbury-Hall, Mendy, Choudhury.
11. Brentford - Janelt, Jensen, Onyeka, Norgaard, Damsgard.
12. Palace - Milivojevic, Doucoure, Will Hughes, Schlupp, Mcarthur.
13. Southampton - JWP, Romeu, Diallo, Lavia
14. Everton - Doucoure, Allan, Onana
15. Leeds - Roca, Klich, Adams
16. Newcastle - Guimaraes, Willock, Joelinton, Longstaff
17. Fulham - Cairney, Palhinha, Reed.
18. Forest - Colback, O'Brien, Mangala.
19. Bournemouth - Billing, Pearson, Cook, Tavernier.
Out of the 19, i'd say there's only about 3 or 4 midfields that they are comparable to. Forest, Bournemouth, Palace, maybe Brentford. The rest are clearly better. That is the midfield that is unchallenged as the starting midfield at a club of the stature of Manchester United.
I have said this and I think most people have too, they barely get in a relegation standard midfield.
Why not play Zidane instead of McT? I mean.....kid can't play worse that Mctalentless
This is a good point, when we were all about counter attacking all they had to do was break up play or occasionally burst forward with pace, which suited their strengths. The way Ten Hag wants us to play will expose their weaknesses.
If McFred plays they should be at the base and close to each other in a double defensive oriented B2B setup. This has been fairly effective for us in the past. It's when managers try to be too clever leaving Fred in deep role and pushing his partners high (be it McTominay, but we've also seen it with van de Beek in pre-season) - things go south.
McTominay average position is higher than Eriksen, far away from Fred:
McTominay average position is higher than Eriksen, far away from Fred:
McFred and Bruno have no maturity in possession, how did ETH miss this?
They aren't good enough, end of story.If McFred plays they should be at the base and close to each other in a double defensive oriented B2B setup. This has been fairly effective for us in the past. It's when managers try to be too clever leaving Fred in deep role and pushing his partners high (be it McTominay, but we've also seen it with van de Beek in pre-season) - things go south.
McTominay average position is higher than Eriksen, far away from Fred:
This is not debatable mate.
But we are stuck with them for the time being. And we need to figure out how to use them, because we're not bringing two/three new midfielders this window anyway.
Good start would be to analyze how in the past this duo was effective enough to be first-choice over Matic-Pogba for example. As poor as they are on individual level they could be a semi functional midfield pair if used right.
Dropping Bruno for Eriksen would definitely help as well.
So going back to counter ball then?
Everyone and their dog who watches the pl knows that their insufficient. This is why I have an issue with murtough he himself should have went into the window with a plan to replace them. Consult ETH on but make sure ETH knows we have to recruit 2 midfield starters.
Doesn't need to be, we can have Eriksen dropping into midfield and helping with ball distribution and progression. Just because our previous managers opted for forward line detached from midfield doesn't mean it will stay that way under Ten Hag. At least we now have Eriksen who can help midfield unlike Bruno.
We need a CM that's for sure, but unless we sign two midfielders, those two will get plenty minutes this season.
My patience is until the end of the window.
His pursuit of De Jong and his comments suggest that he wants to strengthen his midfield, however, the lack of alternative targets suggests that it is viewed as a luxury upgrade. I can’t accept September with the same options.
Agreed. Every area needs improving, but I believe in this window, 2 central midfielders have to be the priority. McFred are so far off the required standard it's unbelievable. And the lack of players in this position, barring a couple of youth players, is very concerning. We at least have options for most other positions, albeit not amazing ones.
Get Varane fit and somehow keep him fit, then play Martinez as a cdm if we can't or don't sign a midfielder.
Not saying he was amazing yesterday but from one competitive game its clear to see he's way more comfortable on the ball than McFred and is a better passer of the ball.
Absolutely criminal that we've started another season with those two in the heart of our team.
Not saying he was amazing yesterday but from one competitive game its clear to see he's way more comfortable on the ball than McFred and is a better passer of the ball.
Absolutely criminal that we've started another season with those two in the heart of our team.
An essay....it's five sentences!
The fact is, Scott McTominay and Fred are by all accounts hard-working, great personalities and love the club. It's not their fault they aren't good enough as a pair but it's an abject failure by the Board/management that we have glaring issues in our side year after year and nothing is done about it. No other top club would tolerate that, Madrid would have had the white hankies out years ago.
https://fbref.com/en/players/8794e251/Adrien-Rabiot
His profile looks like it would compliment a FDJ Eriksen midfield
His profile looks like it would compliment a FDJ Eriksen midfield
I think we can get something out of Fred, and its unfair he gets lumped together with Mctominay, if Fred is used as a box to box he's decent. Sign a new midfielder and go with new midfielder sitting at the base Fred box to box and Eriksen.
We clearly don't want to play that way and that is why we need a new midfield. We want to apply pressure high up the pitch, not invite it to our boxIf McFred plays they should be at the base and close to each other in a double defensive oriented B2B setup. This has been fairly effective for us in the past. It's when managers try to be too clever leaving Fred in deep role and pushing his partners high (be it McTominay, but we've also seen it with van de Beek in pre-season) - things go south.
McTominay average position is higher than Eriksen, far away from Fred:
Garner is another he should use.
Fred is the first one out. I totally agree with Keane here, he lacks understanding and at the rate he loses the ball cannot be tolerated. Fred out first then Scott. Both are terrible though
It is bizarre. Bissouma went to Spurs for 30m, Palhinha went to Fulham for 20m. There were relatively cheap players that were attainable this window.
Not signing Bissouma was criminal negligence.
Sangare has signed an extension to his contract now, also.
That is our problem. Most players are best suited to a low block counterattacking tactic. Maguire, AWB, Shaw, Bruno, McFred and Rashford. Maybe only Sancho and Eriksen are suited to play possession football. We will get killed on the counter this season when Rashford or McFred lose possession 5 times a game.
Great post
I actually can't believe we're going in another season with the worst midfield duo in the PL still stinking up the place. Amazing
Brutal 2 of them are. Just run around they do.
Were not going anywhere even with good coaching.
We stick Eriksen in a deeper role showed yesterday can dictate play.
Build midfield around Eriksen. Bit of steel and another player with Brains in beside him.
Were not going anywhere even with good coaching.
We stick Eriksen in a deeper role showed yesterday can dictate play.
Build midfield around Eriksen. Bit of steel and another player with Brains in beside him.