The John Murtough Era

Skills said:

He seems weak. He shouldn't have sanctioned the 60m on Martinez when there were other more important needs.

In fact, this was the summer that he should've just gone and addressed the weakest areas of the squad without Ten Hag's input. As the guy who hired him, he should know exactly the profile of players we need to be signing for the football we want to play under Ten Hag.

Click to expand...

100% spot on.

Any capable DoF with any basics would have had a proper list of players for the areas the squad needs. Input from the new manager is good but how bad was our list if ETH would rather bid for the likes of Araoutovic than what we possibly offered up.

Now we have a 55m signing benching another 50m signing whilst the rest of the squad is a mess.

ti vu said:

That should not be how it works for a DoF. Yes, you don't force signing on manager, but you should line up the signings and have them ready for final approval by the manager. The DoF should have a vision for how the team look too. It's not just all on manager. Manager in place or not, a competent manager could have his own assessment of the squad, and lay the ground work.

This now looks like Murtough has been passive all along, without ideas of his own.

Click to expand...

Can't disagree with you really, hence, my disappointment with Murtough.

It is painfully obvious that Midfield should've been the first priority, Murtough should have at least a list of 3/5 good midfielders, ready to be approached and signed right away, and once Ten Hag was in the door, the the first order of business would be Ten Hag deciding which options to go for from the list that are gettable (example Eriksen was gettable, another one was needed too).

Skills said:

He seems weak. He shouldn't have sanctioned the 60m on Martinez when there were other more important needs.

In fact, this was the summer that he should've just gone and addressed the weakest areas of the squad without Ten Hag's input. As the guy who hired him, he should know exactly the profile of players we need to be signing for the football we want to play under Ten Hag.

Click to expand...

Yep. That's the point of a dof innit. This is the style of football, here's all our data driven analysis and scout reports, heres a list of suitable candidates, now go work through them in order of prioritising the weakest areas.

We should never have been in a position where we're targeting Arnautovic and Rabiot late in the window

Given his wealth of experience in other major clubs around Europe in a similar role, I for one am shocked.

Skills said:

He seems weak. He shouldn't have sanctioned the 60m on Martinez when there were other more important needs.

In fact, this was the summer that he should've just gone and addressed the weakest areas of the squad without Ten Hag's input. As the guy who hired him, he should know exactly the profile of players we need to be signing for the football we want to play under Ten Hag.

Click to expand...

100% and it baffles me that Murtough sat through a series of interviews with Ten Hag, hired Ten Hag based on the ideas he put across and seemingly has no idea what profile of player Ten Hag needs to realise the vision of football they (I assume) discussed during those interviews.

Makes you wonder what the hell they spoke about?

When Ten Hag left Ajax early and came to Manchester in May, what were they discussing? The colour of paint in Ten Hag's office at Carrington?

I just don't understand how you can sit down with someone, repeatedly, and come out of it seemingly unaware of what tools they need to do the job you're giving to them.

However, even if you don't understand. Surely you can sit down with your recruitment staff, of which United have legion, and say: 'I plan to hire Ten Hag. Based on what you know of the systems he's played over the past few years at Ajax, can you put together a list of possible recruits in every area? That way when he comes in we can say "we've built these player profiles based on Gravenberch or De Jong. What do you think?"'

Honestly, I'm at a loss to explain what Murtough does. Maybe he should sit down with a journalist and explain it. I've seen other Football Director's do sit downs where they explain, at length, how they carry out their jobs. Just to compare and contrast, it'd be interesting to get the same from Murtough.

It's all down to the Glazers. We could have got Nunez if they had given the go ahead. Tight gits.

#07 said:

100% and it baffles me that Murtough sat through a series of interviews with Ten Hag, hired Ten Hag based on the ideas he put across and seemingly has no idea what profile of player Ten Hag needs to realise the vision of football they (I assume) discussed during those interviews.

Makes you wonder what the hell they spoke about?

When Ten Hag left Ajax early and came to Manchester in May, what were they discussing? The colour of paint in Ten Hag's office at Carrington?

I just don't understand how you can sit down with someone, repeatedly, and come out of it seemingly unaware of what tools they need to do the job you're giving to them.

However, even if you don't understand. Surely you can sit down with your recruitment staff, of which United have legion, and say: 'I plan to hire Ten Hag. Based on what you know of the systems he's played over the past few years at Ajax, can you put together a list of possible recruits in every area? That way when he comes in we can say "we've built these player profiles based on Gravenberch or De Jong. What do you think?"'

Honestly, I'm at a loss to explain what Murtough does. Maybe he should sit down with a journalist and explain it. I've seen other Football Director's do sit downs where they explain, at length, how they carry out their jobs. Just to compare and contrast, it'd be interesting to get the same from Murtough.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure now, that the only reason they hired him was because of fan pressure. I think the guy they really wanted was Poch. So that explains why we're so unprepared for this summer - on top of that him and Arnold had the big brain idea of sacking our head of recruitment in the same summer.

I was fairly optimistic seeing some degree of positive change to the club's approach when Murtough took the reins from Woodward and, to be fair, it's still early doors. With that said, he doesn't seem to be off to a very good start this summer.

As others have pointed out, the key concern is that he appears to have given Ten Hag full control over transfer targets. It's one thing to allow managers to have input over the club's transfer strategy but placing them in control of it is unsustainable.

Mmm-Qatarian said:

I was fairly optimistic seeing some degree of positive change to the club's approach when Murtough took the reins from Woodward and, to be fair, it's still early doors. With that said, he doesn't seem to be off to a very good start this summer.

As others have pointed out, the key concern is that he appears to have given Ten Hag full control over transfer targets. It's one thing to allow managers to have input over the club's transfer strategy but placing them in control of it is unsustainable.

Click to expand...

Yep. The club has nothing to offer in which we don't need so many employees/ scouts. Just ask the manager who he fancies based on his career so far and here we go.

Murtough has two weeks to redeem himself but as things stand its just more of the same really.

It seems the club has learned absolutely NOTHING from the last 10 years. Again we are in a position of a new manager coming in, choosing seemingly the transfer targets entirely based on their own personal knowledge and preferences, and the rest of the management structure sitting passively by. What on earth are that lot paid to do ?

Nobody seems to be willing to call time on this increasingly ludicrous pursuit of De Jong, who *doesn't want to come*. Even if by some combination of bribery from United and aggressive pushing out the door by Barca finally pushes it over the line, it would be an absolutely terrible start for a playing career at a new club. One can understand he doesn't want to move down from the CL to the EL, so let it go ffs !

The gap in United's midfield has been visible from space for several years, it seems incomprehensible somebody hasn't made any serious attempt to fix it. Solksjaer papered over the cracks by playing a defensive counter attacking style, but surely even he was aware of it. There should have been several targets already lined up at least 12 months ago.

What happens if Ten Haag turns out to be a total flop ? We'll then have some new person in who again will have an even larger roster of players they don't fancy much.

As of today, the transfer window has made a left back swap - hardly an area of biggest concern, added yet another central defender to our frankly bonkers roster of them, and added an attacking midfielder, just as we let another one depart for free (Lingard) after paying him to do nothing for a year or so when a sale was perfectly possible, and have de Beek still sitting around as pointlessly as ever.

The words "deckchairs" and "Titanic" come to mind.....

Skills said:

I'm pretty sure now, that the only reason they hired him was because of fan pressure. I think the guy they really wanted was Poch. So that explains why we're so unprepared for this summer - on top of that him and Arnold had the big brain idea of sacking our head of recruitment in the same summer.

Click to expand...

For years we've been hearing that Woodward did everything by himself and had micromanaged everything at the club. Unfortunately the impression that went out there was that he would be sealing sponsor deals at 8 am, he would be negotiating with Juventus for Pogba at 9, he would be persuading Cavani to sign at 10, he would restructure our loan at 11 and he'd be sorting problems in the dressing room at 12 while serving coffee to the manager at 1pm and hiring scouts at 2pm. That is not how businesses work

Even the most controlling of CEOs (and I worked with some like that) DELEGATE STUFF. Its physically impossible for them not to do so. What controlling CEOs tend to do is to appoint spineless people who share his vision in top positions. He does that because he knows that these people would do most the dirty work only to involve him at key parts of decision making. Competent people will not do that. They would know what is expected by them, they'll get things done, they'll take the responsibility of it and they would use their success in their area as a justification for their autonomy. It was evident that Woodward followed that pattern. At one point United had the most inexperienced structure in football with almost everyone from DOF to technical director, right to manager, chief negotiator, assistant managers and even coaches being at their first experience at a top club. Everyone had little to no experience in his job, they owed their promotion (or sometimes promotions) to Woodward which meant that they would ask the CEO for advice on how to proceed which in turn gave the CEO more control over what was happening.

Which is why I had zero trust on Murtough. The guy had no experience in negotiating players or acting as a sporting director and was promoted in the role merely because he was Woodward's man. We expected change despite Woodward's crony and his team of incompetent people were still calling the shots

Still maintain he should be fired.

The more I think about it, there is simply no defense for how poorly he's mismanaged the club since he 'took over'.

Eddy_JukeZ said:

Still maintain he should be fired.

The more I think about it, there is simply no defense for how poorly he's mismanaged the club since he 'took over'.

Click to expand...

of course he should. If I was Arnold I'd stop any panic buys from being made, I'd give ETH a free pass for this season as long as he develops kids, I'd sack Murtough and I'd hire a top sporting director now. I dare saying that I'd rather see us invest on Rangnick return as sporting director with Mitchell as head of recruitment then all the Moratas and Rabiots this incompetent staff might bring to try and save face

devilish said:

of course he should. If I was Arnold I'd stop any panic buys from being made, I'd give ETH a free pass for this season as long as he develops kids, I'd sack Murtough and I'd hire a top sporting director now. I dare saying that I'd rather see us invest on Rangnick return as sporting director with Mitchell as head of recruitment then all the Moratas and Rabiots this incompetent staff might bring to try and save face

Click to expand...

Nah. If we're going to press the hard reset, the new sporting director should be allowed to choose the head coach he wants to work with. And if that's not ETH, well that's just tough.

Nytram Shakes said:

Becasuse dividends are based on profits, if the club is spending insane amounts of transfers and and struggling to produce a team that gets in the champions league, both these elements impact the amount of money they can take for themselves.

if your a leach you want to leach of something healthy.

Click to expand...

The Glazers have been taking out £20m for the last 5 years and this year they "only" are taking out the bulk of £11m due to us not reaching the CL. £11m for a disastrous season isn't too shabby when they're not spending fortunes on signings or at least revampling OT. Man Utd as a commercial brand is enormous which will keep rolling in money for the foreseeable future no matter how we are doing on the pitch.

We're still £500m in debt which is said to be rising to £700m when more loans are needed to revamp OT and I bet you a pound to the penny the Glazers will still be taking out their millions no matter where we finish in the league. We aren't healthy but the millions are still lining their pockets.

RedPed said:

Harry Maguire is a meme for just about everybody outside of United but still most fans have him in their starting XI. I wouldn't worry about it.

Click to expand...

If you're talking about opposition fans then of course they want Maguire playing every game. If you're talking about United fans then I'm not sure what rock you’ve been hiding under but the vast majority don't want him anywhere near the club never mind the starting line up. The reason he's in most people's match day team is because he's undroppable. Not because supporters want him playing.

Woodward was better than this guy, and that’s saying something.

Forevergiggs1 said:

If you're talking about opposition fans then of course they want Maguire playing every game. If you're talking about United fans then I'm not sure what rock you’ve been hiding under but the vast majority don't want him anywhere near the club never mind the starting line up. The reason he's in most people's match day team is because he's undroppable. Not because supporters want him playing.

Click to expand...

What do you mean 'undroppable'?? On what grounds? We now have Martinez, Varane and Bailly who I would pick ahead of Maguire every day of the week.

I just hope we don't persist with him if he shows that he's not up to it. He's made a dreadful start.

RedPed said:

What do you mean 'undroppable'?? On what grounds? We now have Martinez, Varane and Bailly who I would pick ahead of Maguire every day of the week.

Click to expand...

On the grounds he cost 80m and is club captain. I'd pick all of the above before Maguire as well.

RedPed said:

What do you mean 'undroppable'?? On what grounds? We now have Martinez, Varane and Bailly who I would pick ahead of Maguire every day of the week.

Click to expand...

Price tag and captain status gives you a lot of credits in football.

devilish said:

At one point United had the most inexperienced structure in football with almost everyone from DOF to technical director, right to manager, chief negotiator, assistant managers and even coaches being at their first experience at a top club. Everyone had little to no experience in his job, they owed their promotion (or sometimes promotions) to Woodward which meant that they would ask the CEO for advice on how to proceed which in turn gave the CEO more control over what was happening.

Click to expand...

Spot on here, I think. All of them have won the lottery being employed at all at Manchester United. Bringing in competent people scares them because it will show up their own incompetence. That’s why when searching for a DOF (for 3 years), they’d interview respected candidates, but then brief that they didn’t want someone who was “self-promoting” or who was “not a cultural fit”. All to prepare the ground for someone who did fit into their “culture”: John Murtough.

Some of the briefings that come out under Murtough are very similar to what came out under Woodward as well: Conte would have been too hard on the young players in the squad, United don’t need heart surgery, they want “evolution” etc.

I don't understand Glazers. I know that they don't care for club but they care for the money. Giving the fact that they have billions i am sure that they know thing or two about business. So why the feck they don't hire right and proven people on most important positions inside the club? Surely, surely they realised that what happens on the pitch is related to how much club will worth and how much money will get them.

First they gave Ed to do everything around first team, then they hired Ole and now they hired complete novice to be in charge for first team. Are they stupid?

He's just not a DOF and we're shoehorning him into a role he doesn't have the skillset for. He's apparently done a good job revitalising the youth academy and developing the women's team, but that doesn't qualify him to be a DOF. We need to hire a proper one.

We have too many senior staff members who are "learning on the job". Arnold says he doesn't know about footballing operations so he defers those decisions to someone who hasn't been a DoF before and has to bring in lots of people to consult and show him what to do. Fletcher, bless him, is also "learning on the job."

We haven't got the organisational stability to give these people the time needed to understand what their jobs are meant to be. The entire club top to bottom is a training school.

Andycoleno9 said:

I don't understand Glazers. I know that they don't care for club but they care for the money. Giving the fact that they have billions i am sure that they know thing or two about business. So why the feck they don't hire right and proven people on most important positions inside the club? Surely, surely they realised that what happens on the pitch is related to how much club will worth and how much money will get them.

First they gave Ed to do everything around first team, then they hired Ole and now they hired complete novice to be in charge for first team. Are they stupid?

Click to expand...

I also have similar thoughts. The Glazers may be objectionable in many ways (but hey, the don't actively support torture, suppression of women/gay people's rights or employ people in slave labour conditions, so there's that !) - but they are NOT stupid. Their purchase of the club - looked at from a pure business perspective - was a ballsy and highly successful operation.

So it does mystify me why they keep putting such amateur operators in charge of the football side. It means they spent a fortune on transfer fees and salaries to no good end, and have seen revenues take a hit through missing out on the CL, which in turn will eventually depress the value of sponsorship deals.

Despite the dividends, loans and other money they've extracted, you can't really say they have been unwilling to spend. They've just spent very badly. Yet they seem disinterested in looking at why and how to improve that.

I don't really know what their plans are longer term. They don't seem particularly interested in the club in itself, and presumably realize they aren't that great at running it. I suspect they are just looking for the right time to sell. One can hope...

padzilla said:

Murtough and Arnold are doing a pretty impressive job of making Ed Woodward seem competent in terms of football-based decision making and that's saying something!

Click to expand...

Spot on. Bring back Woodward.

Mr Pigeon said:

We have too many senior staff members who are "learning on the job". Arnold says he doesn't know about footballing operations so he defers those decisions to someone who hasn't been a DoF before and has to bring in lots of people to consult and show him what to do. Fletcher, bless him, is also "learning on the job."

We haven't got the organisational stability to give these people the time needed to understand what their jobs are meant to be. The entire club top to bottom is a training school.

Click to expand...

Best part is that we literally had one of the best DoF's in the world in Ragnick and we didn't even offered him that job.
Edwards is available now, Monchi would be maybe interested but no, we will stick to Murtough because "he did amazing job" on other job unrelated to this one.

How this club is run i simply can't believe that this club is worth over 3 billion

Rocksy said:

Overmars doing the recruitment so that you don’t buy racists sounds alright, then you remember he got fired for sending pics of his cock around the office.

Click to expand...

Maybe it was just his way of saying that the transfer is done.

Andycoleno9 said:

I don't understand Glazers. I know that they don't care for club but they care for the money. Giving the fact that they have billions i am sure that they know thing or two about business. So why the feck they don't hire right and proven people on most important positions inside the club? Surely, surely they realised that what happens on the pitch is related to how much club will worth and how much money will get them.

First they gave Ed to do everything around first team, then they hired Ole and now they hired complete novice to be in charge for first team. Are they stupid?

Click to expand...

Not stupid. Just megalomaniacs who wants every employer to bow down to them, not rock the boat and makes the excuses needed when we inevitably fail to sign our transfer targets. The main reason they got rid of Ralf sharpish.

The club is worth between 3-4 billion. I'd say their way of thinking has been hugely successful. At least for them personally. Feck the footballing side of things.

By the way where is Fletcher these days?

Foxbatt said:

By the way where is Fletcher these days?

Click to expand...

He was at the Hawthorns watching our next player Sarr.

Andycoleno9 said:

I don't understand Glazers. I know that they don't care for club but they care for the money. Giving the fact that they have billions i am sure that they know thing or two about business. So why the feck they don't hire right and proven people on most important positions inside the club? Surely, surely they realised that what happens on the pitch is related to how much club will worth and how much money will get them.

First they gave Ed to do everything around first team, then they hired Ole and now they hired complete novice to be in charge for first team. Are they stupid?

Click to expand...

United will bring Glazers money regardless of what's happening on the pitch so no reason for them to care that much. We're way too strong of a brand to die off because the football team is shit.

The way I look at it is Murtough expected ETH to change these so called united players into better players. As a team there is a bit of improvement but as individuals they will always lack being able to play for us. Murtough has relied on the coach being a miracle worker and has been found out after the first game.

Forevergiggs1 said:

Not stupid. Just megalomaniacs who wants every employer to bow down to them, not rock the boat and makes the excuses needed when we inevitably fail to sign our transfer targets. The main reason they got rid of Ralf sharpish.

The club is worth between 3-4 billion. I'd say their way of thinking has been hugely successful. At least for them personally. Feck the footballing side of things.

Click to expand...

It's only been successful because Ferguson built us into a mammoth club. They've been riding on the coat-tails of that since they stole the club back in 2005. Because of Fergie and what he did, the best players wanted to join, sponsors wanted their name associated with us etc. It's been almost a decade since then and we've been a complete shitshow ever since. As a result, players are less interested and there's no way we have as much power in negotiating record sponsorship deals. I find it hard to believe we can continue to be so perpetually shit and it not affecting the value of the brand and therefore club.

Andycoleno9 said:

I don't understand Glazers. I know that they don't care for club but they care for the money. Giving the fact that they have billions i am sure that they know thing or two about business. So why the feck they don't hire right and proven people on most important positions inside the club? Surely, surely they realised that what happens on the pitch is related to how much club will worth and how much money will get them.

First they gave Ed to do everything around first team, then they hired Ole and now they hired complete novice to be in charge for first team. Are they stupid?

Click to expand...

Because they are happy for us to be mediocre for the foreseeable and know full well people will keep on coming back wherever we are in the league

Seems an amateur

redcucumber said:

It's only been successful because Ferguson built us into a mammoth club. They've been riding on the coat-tails of that since they stole the club back in 2005. Because of Fergie and what he did, the best players wanted to join, sponsors wanted their name associated with us etc. It's been almost a decade since then and we've been a complete shitshow ever since. As a result, players are less interested and there's no way we have as much power in negotiating record sponsorship deals. I find it hard to believe we can continue to be so perpetually shit and it not affecting the value of the brand and therefore club.

Click to expand...

I wish it would have a more devastating effect on the value of this club then maybe they consider fecking off back to the US for good

::sonny:: said:

Seems an amateur

Click to expand...

Well he is, he's never done this before. It's hilarious really.

Forevergiggs1 said:

On the grounds he cost 80m and is club captain. I'd pick all of the above before Maguire as well.

Click to expand...

Andycoleno9 said:

Price tag and captain status gives you a lot of credits in football.

Click to expand...

They were quick to drop Pogba at the drop of a hat and not all club captains are automatic starters so that's just bullshit and once again just examples of the excuses that Maguire gets thrown in his defence all the time. City and Chelsea dropped £100m on players and benched them because that's how big clubs move.

croadyman said:

Because they are happy for us to be mediocre for the foreseeable and know full well people will keep on coming back wherever we are in the league

Click to expand...

I can't accept that. A successful United brings in more money than a bad one, and we've spent enough to be more successful than this. So why give up on it?