Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

frostbite said:

Whatever it was, it was terminated before it ever started. A completely meaningless thing.

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You were spreading false information and now are saying contracts are meaningless. I don't think anyone would think poorly of you admitting you didn't have the full story and changing your opinion. It would be refreshing to know how that actually changes things in your mind.

In any case, Rangnick confirmed the contract as well in his first press conference with Austria:

"I cancelled the consultancy contract."

For me, I always saw his role as being best suited to dof or something similar. Always seemed the interim role was just a sweetener to get him to United in the first place.

stevoc said:

It doesn't does it?

And yet if there was this long term plan in place for Rangnick to be a recruitment consultant, head of recruitment or similar and rebuild the clubs scouting network you'd imagine the club would have moved on his recommended targets in January yes?

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Rangnick actually says in an interview he was at fault there - that he didn't push hard enough on Jan targets until the Mason incident by which point it was too late. Then he made new suggestions that would have helped any new manager in the summer regardless of their style.

With that context the end of the consultancy and all that def seems down to how ETH wanted things run.

Wibble said:

Why are we still discussing RR?

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Most human brains strain without being able to create an explanation or blame for distressing events.

Wibble said:

Why are we still discussing RR?

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Exactly!

Ted Lasso said:

You were spreading false information and now are saying contracts are meaningless. I don't think anyone would think poorly of you admitting you didn't have the full story and changing your opinion. It would be refreshing to know how that actually changes things in your mind.

In any case, Rangnick confirmed the contract as well in his first press conference with Austria:

"I cancelled the consultancy contract."

For me, I always saw his role as being best suited to dof or something similar. Always seemed the interim role was just a sweetener to get him to United in the first place.

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Then you may have to tell him. Because he again got a managerial job, not a director of anything!

RR is 64 years old, but perhaps you know better what he is suited for!...

(Except if he went to Austria as a manager with the secret hope that someday they will hire him as a ... consultant! )

frostbite said:

By the way, from reading this forum I thought he was doing great with Austria. I just looked it up and he has 1 win, 1 draw, 2 loses!

And yes he is a manager with Austria. Not CEO, not consultant, not President. He is a manager. Nothing else. He is a failed manager.

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Nobody thinks highly of him as a manager. They wanted him in an executive role. Seems you didn't quite "read the forum".

Wibble said:

Why are we still discussing RR?

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For me, it is worth reminding ourselves that hiring a Director of Football/Consultant with a view to him helping reshaping the club after a six month stint as interim manager where he can see what is needed to rebuild the team, and then sacking him on the basis of poor performance as interim manager is peak Man United with the Glazers in charge.

Rightnr said:

Do us a favour and go discuss with the nearest wall. I think you'll find plenty of common ground in your ability to understand the simple points being made here.

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'Simple points' being the fantasy story that Rangnick was hired to build the club long term. Fantastic input as usual.

Rightnr said:

You are seriously beyond help here. We've had 10 years of crap ownership and it's catching up with us, it's not because a competent person called out the idiots at the club

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You are beyond help here because you can't accept a different perspective on how Ralf might have affected us this summer. It is like you are taking it so personally. Weird shite as this guy was here for six months with no tie to us whatsoever.

Frosty said:

For me, it is worth reminding ourselves that hiring a Director of Football/Consultant with a view to him helping reshaping the club after a six month stint as interim manager where he can see what is needed to rebuild the team, and then sacking him on the basis of poor performance as interim manager is peak Man United with the Glazers in charge.

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Yep. Firing RR is an awful look no matter how you slice it. His firing is highly relevant now, given the role he was supposedly brought in to play with building the squad and the disaster this window has been.

Frosty said:

For me, it is worth reminding ourselves that hiring a Director of Football/Consultant with a view to him helping reshaping the club after a six month stint as interim manager where he can see what is needed to rebuild the team, and then sacking him on the basis of poor performance as interim manager is peak Man United with the Glazers in charge.

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Fits too perfectly in the most sick way with their decision to hire an interim manager full time not too long before.

Is RR a great manager like Klopp or Pep? No. Is he qualified to teach the basics of modern pressing and gegenpressing to a team of highly paid footballers? He definitely is.

ETH had a whole pre season to drill the team. The result against Brighton wasn't really encouraging. I haven't seen many improvements to be honest.

I said it when United hired RR. This will only work, if he gets full control over the whole footballing business. Being a interim coach and just a consultant with no power to really change things was a waste of time.

Do I say United should have given him this power? No I don't.
I'm only saying if you hire RR you need to trust him and give him the risk power in order to be successful. If you don't, then the result will be like at United.

I believe United would be better off with RR at the helm. He would build a team that plays a clear system and could challenge again within 2 to 3 years.

Frosty said:

For me, it is worth reminding ourselves that hiring a Director of Football/Consultant with a view to him helping reshaping the club after a six month stint as interim manager where he can see what is needed to rebuild the team, and then sacking him on the basis of poor performance as interim manager is peak Man United with the Glazers in charge.

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100% spot on.

If RR was here this summer we wouldn’t be bidding for Arnaotovic that’s for sure.

#07 said:

100%. Some of us need to take the red tinted shades off. Brighton would not swap players like Caicedo for players like Fred. They just wouldn't. West Ham wouldn't want Fred and McTominay to replace Rice and Soucek, Leicester wouldn't want them for Ndidi and Tielemans, Wolves wouldn't want them for Neves and Moutinho, Southampton wouldn't want them for Romeu and Ward-Prowse. The list goes on.

Its all well and good saying Man Utd should be able to beat Brighton. However, in key areas, teams that are solidly midtable are better than us. They have better options than us. That should set off alarm bells for our supporters.

I didn't go into yesterday's game expecting an easy win. I thought we might scrape it. However, the gap (if there is one) between us and most Premier League teams is the smallest its been since the Premier League was founded. So we can't just turn up like the big swinging proverbial and expect to beat Brighton.

We needed, this summer, to take a long hard look at where we are. Be humble about the mistakes that we have made. Then take steps to start fixing them. Rangnick was right, we did need up to 10 new players. When you see what Spurs have done, what PSG is doing, it wasn't beyond the pale to get them either. We did not need to buy 10 Neymars. Campos has fixed PSG's midfield for more or less what we spent on Martinez.

Had we spent smart not big we could've really set Ten Hag up for success. Instead we have ended up where Man Utd have so often ended up since Sir Alex retired: Scrambling around at the end of the window looking at who we could get. Rather than having identified who is best for us before the window even opens, having the deals lined up, and making sure our key areas were strengthened before preseason began.

We are lightyears behind the best clubs in how they're run and, the saddest part is, the people in the club don't even understand that. They brief journalists that its unfair about how our transfer window is being written about. They honestly don't understand why they're doing a bad job. Rangnick's consultancy may have filled that gap, given them someone independent who could hold up a mirror. However, when he started doing it, the truth hurt too much so they chucked him out.

Honest to God I'm scared for the Liverpool game. This could be another humiliation after seeing them put 9 past us last season. If, as I fear, the Scousers absolutely slaughter us. Murtough and everyone involved in ending Rangnick's consultancy should be out and we should get a new hierarchy in place that can support the manager ahead of the winter window.

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You hit the nail on the head. We're scrambling around without a direction and I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better.

slored1 said:

You hit the nail on the head. We're scrambling around without a direction and I'm afraid it will get worse before it gets better.

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Of course it will get worse before it gets better. How were you not expecting that? ETH isn't some saviour.
It's a rebuild and a change of direction from both upper management and our footballing approach.
Life isn't a straight line. So why shouldnt our rebuild be full of twists & turns?

sglowrider said:

Of course it will get worse before it gets better. How were you not expecting that? ETH isn't some saviour.
It's a rebuild and a change of direction from both upper management and our footballing approach.
Life isn't a straight line. So why shouldnt our rebuild be full of twists & turns?

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I like ETH, but what we have seen in the last 6 months doesn't indicate a change of direction at all. It seems more of the same but with different faces.

stevoc said:

The likely explanation in my opinion, there were quite a few reports a few months back when Ralf was sacked that the types of players he was recommending didn't gel with what Ten Hag wanted.

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Sir, Ralf was not sacked. He was an Interim manager until the end of the 2021/22 season. You're not even well informed.

Ted Lasso said:

Rangnick actually says in an interview he was at fault there - that he didn't push hard enough on Jan targets until the Mason incident by which point it was too late. Then he made new suggestions that would have helped any new manager in the summer regardless of their style.

With that context the end of the consultancy and all that def seems down to how ETH wanted things run.

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I mean Ralf may be being harsh on himself there. At the end of the day if the club had wanted him to drive recruitment as many on here seem to think he was really hired to do. Then he shouldn't have had to push much at all, the club would have moved on his recommended targets without much arguments.

They didn't and seemingly ignored all his suggestions which for me points towards the club not planning to have Ralf involved in recruitment to any major extent.

RedDevilFan01 said:

Sir, Ralf was not sacked. He was an Interim manager until the end of the 2021/22 season. You're not even well informed.

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I never said he was sacked from the managers position.

Ted Lasso said:

For me, I always saw his role as being best suited to dof or something similar. Always seemed the interim role was just a sweetener to get him to United in the first place.

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It was reported in the press at the time that he was the one who wanted the consultancy gig, not United. United wanted him as interim manager. It was also reported that Chelsea had tried to hire him as interim manager in the past and he wanted more; they refused.

Giving him the interim job as a "sweetener" would be a terrible idea. He's the manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world. That job cannot be a sweetener, it would be highly irresponsible.

Wibble said:

Why are we still discussing RR?

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Some are still pining for Ralf.

Catalandevil said:

I like ETH, but what we have seen in the last 6 months doesn't indicate a change of direction at all. It seems more of the same but with different faces.

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Maybe the past 6 months -- and ETH has only been here for 3 of that -- would mainly be internal restructuring which we are not privy to. You fix the internal structure, strategic planning, personal first before you will see any major changes.
Most of us takes like 3-6 months before we are really up to speed in our new jobs. Your performance and contribution really doesn't show up till much later. C suite jobs require strategy development -- and that takes rounds and rounds of discussions and agreements especially with Arnalod wanting to take the club management and strategy a different direction. Then budgeting etc. It could take 6 months just to come to some level of agreement. Then you have to find the right people etc.

What we are seeing is really the interface level or the product level -- the footballing side. But that's the tip of the icberg when it comes to an entire organisation re-org. If the foundations aren't done correctly then any long term success isn't sustainable -- as with the Woodward regime -- including the product.

Ted Lasso said:

www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/man-utd-official-statement-to-confirm-ralf-rangnick-appointment-as-interim-manager

He was hired for 6 months as interim manager and then 2 years as a consultant. Literally the clubs own statement.

Stop spreading falsehoods.

To think the six month role trumps the two year one doesn't make a lot of sense especially with the context of him being highly regarded as a director of football type first and not as a manager.

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If he had gotten us relegated it would have done, ffs. and we're paying the price now for not securing CL football, which we were still in a position to do when he arrived. Why does one have to trump the other. For the six months he was in charge the team was and should have been his absolute focus. I'm even using your own club statement. He shouldn't even have been thinking about the consultancy stuff until the season ended.

Stop talking out of your arse.

stevoc said:

I agree they could and probably should have done but obviously a decision was made to sack him. What prompted that decision I don't know but personally I suspect Ten Hag wasn't keen on working with him.

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stevoc said:

The likely explanation in my opinion, there were quite a few reports a few months back when Ralf was sacked that the types of players he was recommending didn't gel with what Ten Hag wanted.

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stevoc said:

I never said he was sacked from the managers position.

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Maybe I'm not seeing it right, if you can correct me

The problem isn't that RR was sacked. Someone was finally hold accountable for bad performances. Unfortunately the same doesn't apply to anyone else at the club. Its an endless stream of excuses. Another restructuring of the restructuring of the overhaul of the reorganization of the club that just needs another 6-12 month before it comes to fruition. Failure is excused as grand masterplan of people who play 3d chess. There is no masterplan. There is no strategic vision. Its just one terrible ad-hoc decision after another strung together by excuses.

TheMagicFoolBus said:

Your argument seems to be predicated on the notion that Manchester United are currently a rational actor when plainly they are not.

It's blatantly obvious he was hired as a short term manager with the hopes that could finish top 4 but if not he'd have at the bare minimum a very good sense of the squad and their pros/cons so as to inform transfer dealings. Surely you can understand how someone with a perspective as a coach would be a valuable tool for any hierarchy making personnel decisions?

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Every departing manager has a good sense of their squad. How many clubs do you think do this when they have sacked their managers?

"Thanks for losing us European football or almost getting us relegated, etc., etc., but how did you find the squad? Before you go, any recommendations as to who we can bring in for the next guy to make us stronger? Thanks for everything!"

Yeah, ok then.

Let's put this in perspective, Wreck-It is the worst manager post-Fergie....fact! No wonder ten Hag regarded his input as having no value.

Did Ralf ever say anything about our scouting department? It's a bit shit too isn't it?

RedPed said:

Every departing manager has a good sense of their squad. How many clubs do you think do this when they have sacked their managers?

"Thanks for losing us European football or almost getting us relegated, etc., etc., but how did you find the squad? Before you go, any recommendations as to who we can bring in for the next guy to make us stronger? Thanks for everything!"

Yeah, ok then.

Let's put this in perspective, Wreck-It is the worst manager post-Fergie....fact! No wonder ten Hag regarded his input as having no value.

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"Hi Erik, welcome to Manchester United, we're now going to put you under the direction of one the worst United managers in recent history, he'll be able to tell you which players you should have. But don't worry, he's opinionated and likes to complain to the press."

Zen86 said:

"Hi Erik, welcome to Manchester United, we're now going to put you under the direction of one the worst United managers in recent history, he'll be able to tell you which players you should have. But don't worry, he's opinionated and likes to complain to the press."

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"Also, if you like, he can also give you some great tips on how to conduct some amazing pressers because our fans have been lapping them up and hanging on his every word since he came in. Have a word with him when you see him next. He'll put you right."

Wibble said:

Why are we still discussing RR?

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It's the RR thread, you clicked on it.

What did you expect to find here, pictures of him on the beach?

Today's "Bild" published a list of 5 players Rangnick wanted to sign for United.

Auf der Liste von Rangnick standen fünf Spieler: Josko Gvardiol (20, von Rangnick als Pflichtkauf eingestuft), Konrad Laimer (25), Christopher Nkunku (24), Erling Haaland (22) und Julian Alvarez (22).

On the list were 5 players. Josko Gvardiol (20, Rangnick considered him as a must buy), Konrad Laimer (25), Christopher Nkunku (24), Erling Haaland (22) and Julian Alvarez (22).

RedDevilFan01 said:

Maybe I'm not seeing it right, if you can correct me

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Clearly not.

Ralf Rangnick given a 2 year contract back in December to be a consultant for Man Utd until 2024.

And yet here we are in the summer of 2022 and Ralf is no longer employed by the club.

See it now?

stevoc said:

Clearly not.

Ralf Rangnick given a 2 year contract back in December to be a consultant for Man Utd until 2024.

And yet here we are in the summer of 2022 and Ralf is no longer employed by the club.

See it now?

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absolutely stunning that the club put one foot forward and then got rid of him for telling the truth. The scouting in this team has to be over the last 5 years the worst in the entire world, and the level of ineptitude is utterly preposterous. Should have gotten a real director of football in and change the whole way we approached transfers. And for the love of god will someone get rid of Darren fletcher I don’t know what he does or why he’s on the training field but I don’t care he needs to go.

B. Munich said:

Today's "Bild" published a list of 5 players Rangnick wanted to sign for United.

Auf der Liste von Rangnick standen fünf Spieler: Josko Gvardiol (20, von Rangnick als Pflichtkauf eingestuft), Konrad Laimer (25), Christopher Nkunku (24), Erling Haaland (22) und Julian Alvarez (22).

On the list were 5 players. Josko Gvardiol (20, Rangnick considered him as a must buy), Konrad Laimer (25), Christopher Nkunku (24), Erling Haaland (22) and Julian Alvarez (22).

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Yeah and?

It's not excatly a revolutionary list. All of them are well known are highly wanted football players.

It just shows he has a great knowledge of football and can identify great players.
The question of attainability of these players is the problem.

We're not the only ones on the transfer market.
And these aren't some hidden jewels - they're shining bright for all to see.

Wibble said:

Why are we still discussing RR?

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James Garner? 10 pages.
Erickssen? 6 pages.


Perspective.

Nevilles.Wear.Prada said:

James Garner? 10 pages.
Erickssen? 6 pages.


Perspective.

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Jesus

frostbite said:

The manager is the most important job in a club. He talks to the owners all the time. If someone in the club interferes with his job, or if the manager wants to get rid of someone, then he can do it, or the owners will do it for him (or he will be sacked instead).

A manager, even an interim manager, has real power inside a football club. A part time "consultant" is nothing. RR himself had a lot of power for six months. And he failed to do anything positive. He would be even more useless as a consultant.

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Mate. You are talking rubbish here. Who the most important job is in a club depends on the role descriptions, responsibilities, competencies and accountabilities. You can run around all day screaming at moon who the most important wheelpart the manager should be but at the end of the day, it is the club who fills those roles with meaning. Plus, your model of the manager being the most important role in the clubs is something we want to get rid of, isn't it? If we want some sort of continuity (and we should, seeing all the successful clubs around have that) we have to install measures to provide that without a specific manager. That is where the DOF comes in. Don't think anybody wants to say, that Ralf was intended to fill that role, but he was planned to support and consult the person in this role. In our case Murtough. It makes sense to do it like that as Ralf is known to set clubs up for long term success by putting a proper scouting structure and a good recruitment system in place - something we could do very well with.
Thing is, seemingly the details weren't to specific in winter, probably there wasn't really a contract describing the consultancy role and therefor, when talks started after our season, Ralf learned that his understanding of the role diverged from what the club had in mind. Therefor parting ways. Really don't know where the sting comes from with you, but as far as I am informed, there hasn't been any sacking but seemingly a mutual ending of the work relationship.

stevoc said:

Clearly not.

Ralf Rangnick given a 2 year contract back in December to be a consultant for Man Utd until 2024.

And yet here we are in the summer of 2022 and Ralf is no longer employed by the club.

See it now?

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Point is, you obviously said that he was sacked and then asked us why we would think, that you think he was sacked. I mean, based on your logic, because SAF isn't employed as a manager anymore, he got sacked by us. But thats not the case. We just don't know the exact circumstances what exactly happened - if Ralf turned down the consultancy part, if it was mutual or if there was no real contract in place for it (only for interim manager so far).

DickDastardly said:

Yeah and?

It's not excatly a revolutionary list. All of them are well known are highly wanted football players.

It just shows he has a great knowledge of football and can identify great players.
The question of attainability of these players is the problem.

We're not the only ones on the transfer market.
And these aren't some hidden jewels - they're shining bright for all to see.

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This list didn't originate in June 2022, it is from last years winter I think. Obviously Haaland and Nkunku were well known by then. Haaland not attainable, Nkunku probably not as well. But Laimer, Gvardiol and Alvarez? Who knows. The latter was in contact with City as far as we know - but what does that mean? I'd even put Haidara to the list as Ralf was trying to go for him as well. All those players would have helped us. They wouldn't have blocked going for Eriksen or Malacia. I'd say Gvardiol would have been the more sensible buy when compared with Martinez for the price we payed. But lets see.
Pretty sure, Ralf isn't going to talk to journalists about what he did for United specifically. But there is no need to shit on his ability to eye talent in the market. And lets face it, it isn't like we have better people around strategy wise.

NZT-One said:

This list didn't originate in June 2022, it is from last years winter I think. Obviously Haaland and Nkunku were well known by then. Haaland not attainable, Nkunku probably not as well. But Laimer, Gvardiol and Alvarez? Who knows. The latter was in contact with City as far as we know - but what does that mean? I'd even put Haidara to the list as Ralf was trying to go for him as well. All those players would have helped us. They wouldn't have blocked going for Eriksen or Malacia. I'd say Gvardiol would have been the more sensible buy when compared with Martinez for the price we payed. But lets see.
Pretty sure, Ralf isn't going to talk to journalists about what he did for United specifically. But there is no need to shit on his ability to eye talent in the market. And lets face it, it isn't like we have better people around strategy wise.

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Nor did I.

I completely agree, he has an eye for talent.
We should have earmarked the players and go for them.

Joško will be a great player, as will the rest probably.

I didn't know the timeframe of the list, if it's from winter, it's still fresh and new, and not that farsighted, but it's still a great list of players.